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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition

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hey wouldn't it be cool if every time a discussion about a possible female character in a game nobody in this thread has any say or influence over didn't instantly dissolve into people accusing each other of being sexually attracted to videogame characters
 

Snakey

Member
Here is my roster for Smash 4:

IconMario.png
IconDonkeyKong.png
IconLink.png
IconSamus.png
IconKirby.png
IconFox.png
IconPikachu.png
IconMarth.png
IconMrGW.png
IconMii.png

IconLuigi.png
IconDiddyKong.png
IconZeldaSheik.png
IconRidley.png
IconMetaKnight.png
IconFalco.png
IconPTrainer.png
IconIke.png
IconIceClimber.png
IconSnake.png

IconPeach.png
IconKingKRool.png
IconGanondorf.png
IconPit.png
IconKingDedede.png
IconWolf.png
IconLucario.png
IconRoy.png
IconROB.png
IconSonic.png

IconBowser.png
IconYoshi.png
IconToonLink.png
IconPalutena.png
IconOlimar.png
IconCFalcon.png
IconJigglypuff.png
IconNess.png
IconTakamaru.png
IconMegaMan.png

IconToad.png
IconWario.png
IconSaki.png
IconMedusa.png
IconStarfy.png
IconBShadow.png
IconMewtwo.png
IconLucas.png
IconLittleMac.png
IconRandom.png


- All characters from Brawl return
- Mewtwo and Roy are brought back
- 12 newcomers (Ridley, K. Rool, Toad, Black Shadow, Palutena, Medusa, Little Mac, Takamaru, Saki, Starfy, Mii, and Mega Man). Newcomer distribution is equally divided between new series and newcomers for veteran series.
- 49 slots plus random icon (50 slots total I guess).
- 53 total playable characters (a 14 character jump over Brawl).

From Smash 64 to Melee, there was a 14 character increase, and from Melee to Brawl there was a 13 character increase. So this 14 character increase is based off of what I expect at the most.
 

qq more

Member
I will take Palutena and Medusa for staffs, however, I will certainly go for K. Rool.

Here is my roster for Smash 4:

IconMario.png
IconDonkeyKong.png
IconLink.png
IconSamus.png
IconKirby.png
IconFox.png
IconPikachu.png
IconMarth.png
IconMrGW.png
IconMii.png

IconLuigi.png
IconDiddyKong.png
IconZeldaSheik.png
IconRidley.png
IconMetaKnight.png
IconFalco.png
IconPTrainer.png
IconIke.png
IconIceClimber.png
IconSnake.png

IconPeach.png
IconKingKRool.png
IconGanondorf.png
IconPit.png
IconKingDedede.png
IconWolf.png
IconLucario.png
IconRoy.png
IconROB.png
IconSonic.png

IconBowser.png
IconYoshi.png
IconToonLink.png
IconPalutena.png
IconOlimar.png
IconCFalcon.png
IconJigglypuff.png
IconNess.png
IconTakamaru.png
IconMegaMan.png

IconToad.png
IconWario.png
IconSaki.png
IconMedusa.png
IconStarfy.png
IconBShadow.png
IconMewtwo.png
IconLucas.png
IconLittleMac.png
IconRandom.png


- All characters from Brawl return
- Mewtwo and Roy are brought back
- 12 newcomers (Ridley, K. Rool, Toad, Black Shadow, Palutena, Medusa, Little Mac, Takamaru, Saki, Starfy, Mii, and Mega Man). Newcomer distribution is equally divided between new series and newcomers for veteran series.
- 49 slots plus random icon (50 slots total I guess).
- 53 total playable characters (a 14 character jump over Brawl).

From Smash 64 to Melee, there was a 14 character increase, and from Melee to Brawl there was a 13 character increase. So this 14 character increase is based off of what I expect at the most.

Wow, a roster that DOESN'T sound ridiculous and actually has reasonable choices! Only issue I have is that there isn't enough newcomers. 12 newcomers sounds too underwhelming considering that Brawl actually had 16 (or 19 counting ZSS and such) newcomers.


Nice list otherwise though, I actually like it.
 

FreeMufasa

Junior Member
I will take Palutena and Medusa for staffs, however, I will certainly go for K. Rool.

Here is my roster for Smash 4:

IconMario.png
IconDonkeyKong.png
IconLink.png
IconSamus.png
IconKirby.png
IconFox.png
IconPikachu.png
IconMarth.png
IconMrGW.png
IconMii.png

IconLuigi.png
IconDiddyKong.png
IconZeldaSheik.png
IconRidley.png
IconMetaKnight.png
IconFalco.png
IconPTrainer.png
IconIke.png
IconIceClimber.png
IconSnake.png

IconPeach.png
IconKingKRool.png
IconGanondorf.png
IconPit.png
IconKingDedede.png
IconWolf.png
IconLucario.png
IconRoy.png
IconROB.png
IconSonic.png

IconBowser.png
IconYoshi.png
IconToonLink.png
IconPalutena.png
IconOlimar.png
IconCFalcon.png
IconJigglypuff.png
IconNess.png
IconTakamaru.png
IconMegaMan.png

IconToad.png
IconWario.png
IconSaki.png
IconMedusa.png
IconStarfy.png
IconBShadow.png
IconMewtwo.png
IconLucas.png
IconLittleMac.png
IconRandom.png


- All characters from Brawl return
- Mewtwo and Roy are brought back
- 12 newcomers (Ridley, K. Rool, Toad, Black Shadow, Palutena, Medusa, Little Mac, Takamaru, Saki, Starfy, Mii, and Mega Man). Newcomer distribution is equally divided between new series and newcomers for veteran series.
- 49 slots plus random icon (50 slots total I guess).
- 53 total playable characters (a 14 character jump over Brawl).

From Smash 64 to Melee, there was a 14 character increase, and from Melee to Brawl there was a 13 character increase. So this 14 character increase is based off of what I expect at the most.

Problem with newcomers like this is none of those characters are really mainstream, except maybe Mega Man. As opposed to Melee where you had characters like Peach and Bowser and Wario and Sonic in Brawl making their entrances. A few huge characters balanced with minor ones but there aren't many well known huge characters left. I think that's why we'll see a lot more third party characters this time round.
 

Snakey

Member
Wow, a roster that DOESN'T sound ridiculous and actually has reasonable choices! Only issue I have is that there isn't enough newcomers. 12 newcomers sounds too underwhelming considering that Brawl actually had 16 (or 19 counting ZSS and such) newcomers.


Nice list otherwise though, I actually like it.

Thanks for the compliment.

As to your criticism about a lack of newcomers, the reason why there are so few is due to everyone from Brawl being brought back (as well as Mewtwo and Roy being added back in). There are very few fighting games that have even hit the 50 character mark without going into wild clone rehashing (think DBZ fighting games) or recycling of resources from multiple other previous fighting games (Marvel vs. Capcom 2).

I mentioned in my post that Smash Bros. rosters have only increased over the previous installment by only 13 or 14, so a 14 character increase over Brawl is still a big jump keeping in consideration of past trends (ties it with Melee in terms of new characters added).

Besides, there are very few Nintendo characters left that are notable, so a smaller amount of newcomers compared to Brawl is understandable I believe in this circumstance.

Problem with newcomers like this is none of those characters are really mainstream, except maybe Mega Man. As opposed to Melee where you had characters like Peach and Bowser and Wario and Sonic in Brawl making their entrances. A few huge characters balanced with minor ones but there aren't many well known huge characters left.

I tried to pick the newcomers that were the most recognizable ones that were not yet in Smash Bros. Ridley, Toad, Mii, K. Rool, Little Mac, and Mega Man are certainly well known to those who have even a basic grasp of their series of origin. Black Shadow is an important character (the main villain) of F-Zero, however, F-Zero is such a niche series, that he could be considered to be "unknown". With Palutena and Medusa, I think they will both become well known among Nintendo fans once Kid Icarus Uprising is finally released.

Takamaru's game (Nazo no Murasame) is a cult classic in Japan, despite being unknown in the West. Nazo no Murasame is also notable for being the "sister game" of The Legend of Zelda, much like how Kid Icarus was to Metroid. Starfy also has been a very successful series in both Japan and the West (with the first international release selling over 500K in North America alone). Saki is certainly a niche character, however, he was probably the most desired of the Assist Trophies in Brawl to become a playable character (and besides, Sakurai seems to love rail shooters in general).

Overall, these are probably the best picks in terms of being "well known" that you are going to get in Smash 4. However, as with Sakurai I also tried to pick a few "obscure" characters (like Saki) in order to give the roster a bit more "zest". Assuming all of these characters that I have in my roster get added into Smash 4, perhaps the only notable Nintendo characters left would be various Mario characters (Paper Mario, Bowser Jr.) and Dixie Kong.

You are certainly correct though that we are now scraping the bottom of the barrel, but there are still a few gems left at the bottom of that barrel. It will be Smash 5 of which there will be basically no notable characters left to add into Smash Bros. from Nintendo's catalog, and perhaps a more expansive outreach to third-party characters would have to be explored.

Also, a little bit of elaboration, Black Shadow takes Ganondorf's moveset from Melee and Brawl. Ganondorf would return with a moveset that is entirely his own. I always thought it was a shame that one of the most well known villains in the medium of video games was simply a clone. Clones are certainly acceptable (they often play differently), however, in Ganondorf's case its a tad sad. F-Zero and Smash Bros. fans also really desire a second character for F-Zero, and there is a significant minority of Ganondorf players that love his slow strong Captain Falcon style. Black Shadow getting Ganondorf's old moveset, and Ganondorf getting his own, will make every party happy.
 
Also, a little bit of elaboration, Black Shadow takes Ganondorf's moveset from Melee and Brawl. Ganondorf would return with a moveset that is entirely his own. I always thought it was a shame that one of the most well known villains in the medium of video games was simply a clone. Clones are certainly acceptable (they often play differently), however, in Ganondorf's case its a tad sad. F-Zero and Smash Bros. fans also really desire a second character for F-Zero, and there is a significant minority of Ganondorf players that love his slow strong Captain Falcon style. Black Shadow getting Ganondorf's old moveset, and Ganondorf getting his own, will make every party happy.

You're welcome

but srsly, I fear that Sakurai will just give Ganny a new moveset and not realize he's effectively removing a character.
 
but Krystal does legitimately suck so naturally it got lost with everybody else's posts

But only a child-hating monster would deny the world the chance to relieve this retarded thing (blame Canada) in Super Smash Bros.
 

Snakey

Member
The biggest criticism that I personally have with my own roster is the lack of recent characters. I think the newest character on my roster is Mii who debuted in November 2006. However, Sakurai himself has lamented about a lack of new characters to put into Smash Bros. even with Brawl (though the criticism was directed towards a lack of series since Pikmin that warranted a playable character). If Miyamoto's/EAD's new IP has a character that can be implemented for playable status for Smash Bros., I would probably switch out either Saki or Starfy for him/her/it.

Other than that, I think the roster was done well, and is probably the best of what could be done with 53 character spots. I would be glad to elaborate on my decisions and thoughts if anyone has any questions regarding a particular character's inclusion on the roster.
 
Yeah, the only thing I'd say about your roster Snakey is I think a new Pokemon rep is a given (though I'd love for Mewtwo to come back since I haven't cared about the series since the original games) and having two new Kid Icarus reps still isn't something I see happening. Besides that it's a level-headed but still ideal guess at what to expect.
 

Snakey

Member
Yeah, the only thing I'd say about your roster Snakey is I think a new Pokemon rep is a given (though I'd love for Mewtwo to come back since I haven't cared about the series since the original games) and having two new Kid Icarus reps still isn't something I see happening. Besides that it's a level-headed but still ideal guess at what to expect.

I think a true newcomer Pokemon is a given as well. The roster I picked was merely what I would do if I was deciding the roster.

Sakurai's statements on how the Pokemon Company determines the Pokemon content in Smash Bros. sounds like Sakurai might not even be the one choosing what Pokemon get in as playable characters (or rather Sakurai is not the one who gets the final say).

From what I have observed from Smash Bros. fans, the only Pokemon character that is really strongly requested is Mewtwo (of which he is one of the most wanted characters for Smash 4).

As for a 5th-generation Pokemon, none of them seem to be that popular. I actually think that Smash fans would much rather have Lucario stay than for him to be replaced by Zoroark or Victini.

However, my roster picks are simply what I would choose if given control over the Smash 4 roster.

As to your opinion regarding Palutena and Medusa, I think it would be best to wait and see for Kid Icarus Uprising's release before a more accurate assessment could be made in regards to how likely the goddesses really are. However in consideration to how many Smash fans whine about the lack of female fighters in Smash Bros, and considering how there are no major well-known female characters left to add, I think Palutena and Medusa are the best picks (especially considering both characters are actually incredibly important to their series unlike female characters in most other Nintendo series).
 

Triton55

Member
Medusa being in Smash Bros would be a little weird considering how her character is in the public domain. Even if this is the Kid Icarus version of her, I think it would come off as kind of strange for the majority of people who recognize her more as a Greek myth than a video game villain.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
FYI the alleged "staff moves" for Krystal smell of being similar to a standard Star Fox attack. If judging by Adventures, the B move will be a generic projectile, most likely the fireball. The recovery is a shitty version of Fire Fox (think of Lucario's Extreme Speed), and side B would be a speed up dash which is essentially like Illusion only it doesn't deal damage. Really, the only different thing I can think of is the Down B which is an earthquake.
 

PokéKong

Member
I agree about waiting and seeing to assess Uprising, but Medusa seems like a much safer bet than Palutena already. Palutena's role from what we've seen is mainly just Pit's backup, sending him on missions and telling him to barrel roll, with maybe some but probably minimal hands on work in the game. Medusa just seems more appropriate so that Pit has an enemy around, plus not only do we need more women, we need more villains.

If simply needing more lady types were to help Palutena's chances, I would suggest many characters such as Lyn or Drill Dozer's Jill long before her.

As a Pokefan, I'd be very okay with losing Lucario, getting back Mewtwo maybe with some of Lucario's moves merged in, and getting Zoroark as the 5th gen representative, especially if it has a completely unique moveset.
 

Jarsonot

Member
Hey y'all, new to the thread, just thought I'd jump in with:

I prefer new characters to be from new series (Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden, Megaman) because then we get cool new level and item possibilities as well.

I know we'll get some from series that are already included, but I'm more looking forward to the new stuff, particularly Castlevania and Megaman.
 

Blizzard

Banned
I like Krystal... People just associate her with Star Fox going downhill. It's not her fault :p
I agree, and it'd be awesome to win games with her. It would be like winning a League of Legends game with Teemo.

More Donkey Kong, Castlevania, or Megaman characters sound reasonable to me, but I'm afraid I have very little clue which games some of those creatures up there are from. :p
 

WillyFive

Member
Problem with newcomers like this is none of those characters are really mainstream

Smash Bros. makes franchises popular. Fire Emblem wasn't even in the US when Melee came out.

It would be smart for Nintendo to put their new IP's in the roster, like the armadillo from The Rolling Western.
 

KevinCow

Banned
If Japan gets their vaguely Zelda-ish region-exclusive NES game character in Takamaru, we should get our vaguely Zelda-ish region-exclusive NES game character in Mike Jones.

It's only fair.

...But of course it won't happen, because Sakurai has probably never even heard of Startropics.
 

scoot3r

Member
Here is my roster for Smash 4:

IconMario.png
IconDonkeyKong.png
IconLink.png
IconSamus.png
IconKirby.png
IconFox.png
IconPikachu.png
IconMarth.png
IconMrGW.png
IconMii.png

IconLuigi.png
IconDiddyKong.png
IconZeldaSheik.png
IconRidley.png
IconMetaKnight.png
IconFalco.png
IconPTrainer.png
IconIke.png
IconIceClimber.png
IconSnake.png

IconPeach.png
IconKingKRool.png
IconGanondorf.png
IconPit.png
IconKingDedede.png
IconWolf.png
IconLucario.png
IconRoy.png
IconROB.png
IconSonic.png

IconBowser.png
IconYoshi.png
IconToonLink.png
IconPalutena.png
IconOlimar.png
IconCFalcon.png
IconJigglypuff.png
IconNess.png
IconTakamaru.png
IconMegaMan.png

IconToad.png
IconWario.png
IconSaki.png
IconMedusa.png
IconStarfy.png
IconBShadow.png
IconMewtwo.png
IconLucas.png
IconLittleMac.png
IconRandom.png


- All characters from Brawl return
- Mewtwo and Roy are brought back
- 12 newcomers (Ridley, K. Rool, Toad, Black Shadow, Palutena, Medusa, Little Mac, Takamaru, Saki, Starfy, Mii, and Mega Man). Newcomer distribution is equally divided between new series and newcomers for veteran series.
- 49 slots plus random icon (50 slots total I guess).
- 53 total playable characters (a 14 character jump over Brawl).

From Smash 64 to Melee, there was a 14 character increase, and from Melee to Brawl there was a 13 character increase. So this 14 character increase is based off of what I expect at the most.

I dig it except for mewtwo and lucario, pretty much same guy imo.
 

PokéKong

Member
I sure wish the Advance Wars series was back on track, then I'd feel better about Andy's chances. Has Sakurai ever mentioned anything Advance Wars?

Even if he ended up being a clone of Snake I'd be happy, as long as it meant getting a nice colorful war zone level with Andy's theme and Sami's theme.
 

TreIII

Member
Here is my roster for Smash 4:

IconMario.png
IconDonkeyKong.png
IconLink.png
IconSamus.png
IconKirby.png
IconFox.png
IconPikachu.png
IconMarth.png
IconMrGW.png
IconMii.png

IconLuigi.png
IconDiddyKong.png
IconZeldaSheik.png
IconRidley.png
IconMetaKnight.png
IconFalco.png
IconPTrainer.png
IconIke.png
IconIceClimber.png
IconSnake.png

IconPeach.png
IconKingKRool.png
IconGanondorf.png
IconPit.png
IconKingDedede.png
IconWolf.png
IconLucario.png
IconRoy.png
IconROB.png
IconSonic.png

IconBowser.png
IconYoshi.png
IconToonLink.png
IconPalutena.png
IconOlimar.png
IconCFalcon.png
IconJigglypuff.png
IconNess.png
IconTakamaru.png
IconMegaMan.png

IconToad.png
IconWario.png
IconSaki.png
IconMedusa.png
IconStarfy.png
IconBShadow.png
IconMewtwo.png
IconLucas.png
IconLittleMac.png
IconRandom.png

Not bad. The only thing I could see not living up to this list would be Roy. His game was not that popular, if I remember correctly, plus by the time we're thinking of new Smash games, any new representation should likely go to new FE faces. And with FE:Kakusei coming out in a few months, I can easily imagine Crom(Chrome?) getting in.

As for K. Rool? Wouldn't the fact that he and the Kremlings weren't in the most recent DK game possibly hurt his chances, too?
 

DarkKyo

Member
Why did they pick such a bad voice for Donkey Kong in the cartoon? I see him more as a strong-headed oaf than a 90's radical guy. That should be funky kong's voice or something...
 

Snakey

Member
Not bad. The only thing I could see not living up to this list would be Roy. His game was not that popular, if I remember correctly, plus by the time we're thinking of new Smash games, any new representation should likely go to new FE faces. And with FE:Kakusei coming out in a few months, I can easily imagine Crom(Chrome?) getting in.

FE6 (the one with Roy) was the third highest selling game in the Fire Emblem series in Japan. The only two games that sold better than Roy's game were FE3 (the Super Famicom one with Marth) and FE4.

As for Chrome, he looks way too similar to Ike to warrant being placed in. And besides, I think even Sakurai would deem three blue-haired sword-wielders for Fire Emblem to be redundant.
 
Why did they pick such a bad voice for Donkey Kong in the cartoon? I see him more as a strong-headed oaf than a 90's radical guy. That should be funky kong's voice or something...

What I'm more curious about is why giant fangs suddenly protrude from DK's mouth everytime he opens his mouth. It's hilarious as hell but even for the time that was some pretty bizarre 3D-animation.
 
hey wouldn't it be cool if every time a discussion about a possible female character in a game nobody in this thread has any say or influence over didn't instantly dissolve into people accusing each other of being sexually attracted to videogame characters

It's happened (or hasn't happened, I guess?) with Medusa/what's her name from Icarus already. The Krystal Defense Force just likes to keep going.
 

Snakey

Member
I like Krystal... People just associate her with Star Fox going downhill. It's not her fault :p

Turning Star Fox into a furry space opera is certainly her fault. Love drama in Star Fox is a no go for many people. The character is horrible. She is pretty much the Shadow (or maybe Rouge the Bat) of the Star Fox series.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
You know how horrible Renamon did to Digimon along with its rather overrated season? Same thing with Krystal.
 

MisterHero

Super Member
Turning Star Fox into a furry space opera is certainly her fault. Love drama in Star Fox is a no go for many people. The character is horrible. She is pretty much the Shadow (or maybe Rouge the Bat) of the Star Fox series.
This was well established in SF1 and SF64

this anti-character stuff is getting into made-up BS territory

The series is what it is. The only real measure of success/decline in the series is in the gameplay because the story has always been the silly puppet animal drama.
 

Snakey

Member
This was well established in SF1 and SF64

this anti-character stuff is getting into made-up BS territory

The series is what it is. The only real measure of success/decline in the series is in the gameplay because the story has always been the silly puppet animal drama.

Its not made up BS. There is a remarkable difference between the story content you had in SF64 compared to what you had in Command.

As to your second point, the consensus seems to be that the post-64 games are all mediocre to subpar, with each game since 64 being worse since the previous one.
 
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