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NFL Off-Season Thread 5 - Everybody Do The Flop

E

eznark

Banned
That's the kind of ban that is fucking absurd. Besada taking it upon himself to not only judge offensiveness but also whether or not a remark is of sufficiently substantive value to allow the user to continue their existence is idiotic and a ridiculous over-reach. I get trying to moderate out offensive behavior but trying to moderate tone and depth is pathetic.

Sorry, you're too shallow to participate in this video game forum!

I always thought better of besada.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
eznark said:
That's the kind of ban that is fucking absurd. Besada taking it upon himself to not only judge offensiveness but also whether or not a remark is of sufficiently substantive value to allow the user to continue their existence is idiotic and a ridiculous over-reach. I get trying to moderate out offensive behavior but trying to moderate tone and depth is pathetic.

Sorry, you're too shallow to participate in this video game forum!

I always thought better of besada.
Click to expand...
This is their field, we just play on it (for better or worse).
 
G

Greg

Member
are video games serious business again?

guess I have to take my monthly trip to gaming side to read that topic
 
T

Talon

Member
Greg said:
are video games serious business again?

guess I have to take my monthly trip to gaming side to read that topic
Click to expand...
Giant Bomb E3 podcasts/shows were hardly diverse (I think 2 non-white men in total over the course of four shows with a total of about 30-35 people coming in and out?).

Some people wrote some things.

Patrick Klepek says, "We need to do a better job on that."

Giant Bomb hired two more white dudes (that like wrestling).

Different people wrote things - some were valid observations on the lack of diversity in games media, others were along the lines of "lol fuck Giant Bomb those pigs." One woman writes a few tweets that could be read as personal attacks on the GB staff's integrity (srs bzness).

Giant Bomb community...and then 4Chan gets involved personally attacking people. So you know what that means - what I hope is a minority start sending death threats, "feminazi shit," etc.

Some people try to have a conversation about it, but, per usual, considering most of the dialogue is happening 140 words at a time, it devolves into ad hominem city.

Jeff tweets "yo, stop defending us."

Electric Bugaloo
 
D

DMczaf

Member
But seriously though, Giant Bomb's treasure trove of white dudes is impressive. When you think you've seen them all, here comes E3 and 15-20 new ones show up.

White Dudes Emporium up there.
 
E

eznark

Banned
DMczaf said:
But seriously though, Giant Bomb's treasure trove of white dudes is impressive. When you think you've seen them all, here comes E3 and 15-20 new ones show up.

White Dudes Emporium up there.
Click to expand...

It's seriously amazing. I think they are up to like, 6 white guys now. A few more and it will look like Obama's original cabinet.
 
S

squicken

Member
Insider piece, but Sando talked to a bunch of head coaches and front office people, and they ranked all the starting QBs by placing them in 4 tiers.

I asked 26 league insiders to grade every projected starting quarterback on a 1-5 scale, with "one" reserved for the best and "five" for the worst. Eight general managers, two former GMs, four pro personnel evaluators, seven coordinators, two head coaches, two position coaches and a top executive participated, attacking the project with gusto almost across the board.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/stor...cks-tiers?ex_cid=InsiderTwitter_Sando_QBTiers
Click to expand...

Explaining the tiers

• Once we had averaged the results for each QB, we rounded the numbers to the nearest tiers -- so that a 2.49 would round to Tier 2 and a 2.50 would round to Tier 3, and so on.
• Alok Pattani of ESPN Stats & Information added one point for every one-tier gap between a QB's average tier level and a voter's ballot. For example: placing Luck in Tier 1 created a 13-point penalty, counting one point for the 11 voters placing him in Tier 2 (one tier removed from his average) and two points for the one person who placed him in the Tier 3 (two tiers removed). Moving Luck into the second tier created a 15-point penalty (14 points for the 14 first-tier votes and one point for the single third-tier vote). This linear penalty system bumped Luck into Tier 1.
Click to expand...

Tier 1
Top 4 guys all tied for 1st

1. Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Peyton
5. Luck

I agree that Luck belongs with those guys. Writeup on him

Luck doesn't have the track record of the other Tier 1 QBs, and there was a clear gap in the voting between him and the top four. But people in the league love him almost unconditionally, and 14 of the 26 voters insisted upon putting him in the top tier (each of the top four received 25 of 26 Tier 1 votes).

The evaluators think Luck has carried a subpar roster to a 22-10 record without much help. They see no limitations. They have zero doubt about his long-term stardom and felt strongly enough to give him 14 first-tier votes even while acknowledging he's below the Big Four at this early stage. Every other QB fell into the tier in which he received the most votes, and So shall Luck, even if his Tier 1 designation feels a bit premature.

"I'm not going to downgrade him because it's only his second year," a defensive coordinator said after placing Luck in the first tier. "He can put it on his back as a younger player, where some of these other guys had good help running the ball like Ben (Roethlisberger) or Matt (Ryan) or Russell (Wilson) or Joe (Flacco). They have had people you could hand it to. They say you can win with a young QB when you have a top-10 defense and a top-10 running game. Luck hasn't had either."

The Colts have gone 22-10 with Luck, while ranking 28th in defensive EPA and 24th in both rushing yards and rushing attempts by running backs. Luck ranks fourth in drop-backs over that span, trailing only Matthew Stafford, Brees and Ryan.

Still, there isn't much of an individual statistical argument for Luck's inclusion in Tier 1. His completion percentage (57.0) and passer rating (81.5) lag. His QBR score (63.8) ranks eighth and reflects significant value added through rushing. "Luck turns the ball over too much," one GM said in explaining why he left Luck in the second tier for now. A head coach called Luck "a two becoming a one" -- a comment consistent with the thinking of everyone who placed Luck in the second tier.
Click to expand...
 
T

Talon

Member
The thing is, I think people are barking up the wrong tree by looking to Giant Bomb of all platforms to create a broader umbrella. These are fat white dudes (minus Patrick) that talk about wrestling, fast food and mysterious shit stains in corporate bathrooms.

The industry as a whole? Yeah, it really needs to be better about it. It's a good conversation to have, but asking a niche site that is, yet again, run by fat white nerds to trailblaze in this regard is unrealistic.
 
E

eznark

Banned
Holy fucking shit Ron Roenicke is a fucking crack whore. How do you come up with a lineup against lefties so fucking tortured that you get Elian Herrera in there and sit Mark Reynolds. He fucking had to DH Weeks, put Lucroy at first, start Maldonado (day after day with an off day tomorrow, FUCK YOU) just to make sure Mark Reynolds didn't start. Against a lefty. THE ONLY FUCKING REASON MARK REYNOLDS IS ON THE TEAM IS TO MASH LEFT HANDED PITCHING.

Die. Die like soccer in America died yesterday. Painfully and in front of my eyes. You are the worst Ron.
 
T

Talon

Member
squicken said:
Insider piece, but Sando talked to a bunch of head coaches and front office people, and they ranked all the starting QBs by placing them in 4 tiers.

Tier 1
Top 4 guys all tied for 1st

1. Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Peyton
5. Luck

I agree that Luck belongs with those guys. Writeup on him
Click to expand...
I'd agree with this as well. Do you have insider? Curious as to how they have Tier 2 and 3.

I enjoy content derived from actual reporting, not bullshit spewed by failed FO executives.
 
D

Draxal

Member
Game journalists are pretty much 90% white males. Its a GOB club. I really don't see what the solution will be for it, as game journalism itself is not an industry most people should want to enter in the first place.
 
H

Himynameischris

Member
squicken said:
Insider piece, but Sando talked to a bunch of head coaches and front office people, and they ranked all the starting QBs by placing them in 4 tiers.





Tier 1
Top 4 guys all tied for 1st

1. Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Peyton
5. Luck

I agree that Luck belongs with those guys. Writeup on him
Click to expand...


Where is tannehill at?


Also mods warn about not drive by trolling yet idiots and jrs keep doing, it's fair game as far as I'm concerned
 
T

Talon

Member
Draxal said:
Game journalists are pretty much 90% white males. Its a GOB club. I really don't see what the solution will be for it, as game journalism itself is not an industry most people should want to enter in the first place.
Click to expand...
I'm sure $30,000 out of college reviewing Skylanders 45 sounds great to some...of these GAF neckbeards?
 
G

Greg

Member
Talon said:
Giant Bomb E3 podcasts/shows were hardly diverse (I think 2 non-white men in total over the course of four shows with a total of about 30-35 people coming in and out?).

Some people wrote some things.

Patrick Klepek says, "We need to do a better job on that."

Giant Bomb hired two more white dudes (that like wrestling).

Different people wrote things - some were valid observations on the lack of diversity in games media, others were along the lines of "lol fuck Giant Bomb those pigs." One woman writes a few tweets that could be read as personal attacks on the GB staff's integrity (srs bzness).

Giant Bomb community...and then 4Chan gets involved personally attacking people. So you know what that means - what I hope is a minority start sending death threats, "feminazi shit," etc.

Some people try to have a conversation about it, but, per usual, considering most of the dialogue is happening 140 words at a time, it devolves into ad hominem city.

Jeff tweets "yo, stop defending us."

Electric Bugaloo
Click to expand...
ZNSIUNk.jpg
 
B

Bowser

Member
Talon said:
I'd agree with this as well. Do you have insider? Curious as to how they have Tier 2 and 3.

I enjoy content derived from actual reporting, not bullshit spewed by failed FO executives.
Click to expand...

I assume it's ok to share the rankings without all the content:

Tier 2
6. Phil Rivers
7. Big Ben
T-8. Matt Ryan
T-8. Tony Romo
T-8. Russell Wilson
T-8. Eli Manning
12. Joe Flacco
13. Matt Stafford
14. Colin Kaepernick
15. Nick Foles

Tier 3
16. Cam Newton
17. Jay Cutler
18. Alex Smith
T-19. Andy Dalton
T-19. RG3
T-21. Carson Palmer
T-21. Sam Bradford
23. Ryan Tannehill
24. Josh McCown

Tier 4
25. Matt Schaub
26. Chad Henne
27. EJ Manuel
28. Matt Cassel
29. Brian Hoyer
30. Ryan Fitzpatrick
31. Jake Locker
32. Geno Smith
 
E

eznark

Banned
Greg said:
ZNSIUNk.jpg
Click to expand...

Also the main pot-stirring woman is barely tangentially related to the industry and has written about how much she quite literally hates all men.

It was a pot of fuck with nothing but fucks thrown into it and somehow some people are surprised fuck all came out of it.
 
T

Talon

Member
Bowser said:
I assume it's ok to share the rankings without all the content:

Tier 2
6. Phil Rivers
7. Big Ben
T-8. Matt Ryan
T-8. Tony Romo
T-8. Russell Wilson
T-8. Eli Manning
12. Joe Flacco
13. Matt Stafford
14. Colin Kaepernick
15. Nick Foles

Tier 3
16. Cam Newton
17. Jay Cutler
18. Alex Smith
T-19. Andy Dalton
T-19. RG3
T-21. Carson Palmer
T-21. Sam Bradford
23. Ryan Tannehill
24. Josh McCown

Tier 4
25. Matt Schaub
26. Chad Henne
27. EJ Manuel
28. Matt Cassel
29. Brian Hoyer
30. Ryan Fitzpatrick
31. Jake Locker
32. Geno Smith
Click to expand...
Hey, look. A reasonable list! Guess these actual FO guys know what they're doing...in aggregate.

Bet Phil Rivers was around Joe Flacco-level prior to this season, though.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Tier 4
25. Matt Schaub
26. Chad Henne
27. EJ Manuel
28. Matt Cassel
29. Brian Hoyer
30. Ryan Fitzpatrick
31. Jake Locker
32. Geno Smith
Click to expand...

I think Luck just looks Tier 1 based on his competition in the AFC South.
 
S

squicken

Member
I'll post the writeup on anyone you guys want.

Ryan

T-8. Matt Ryan, Atlanta Falcons (2.23 average rating)

I was surprised to see Ryan command zero Tier 1 votes and six Tier 3 votes. Nearly everyone said Ryan needed to prove himself in the playoffs. There was a feeling Ryan would never be able to carry his team the way the very best QBs have.

That's not a knock, either. "If you told me I'm getting a guy who can win 10 games and get you to the championship game and lose, I'd take it in a heartbeat," one former GM said.

The other former GM said it's become clear to him Ryan cannot carry a team. "I think he has potential, but I see a guy that is a little bit hesitant and cannot pull the trigger," this former GM said. "From afar, it looks like the more Matt Ryan has on his plate, the less productive he becomes."

One evaluator noted that Ryan has benefited from outstanding receiving weapons: Julio Jones can win jump balls; Roddy White, a former wrestler, knows how to fight for position; and the recently retired Tony Gonzalez was a master at using leverage to make life easier for quarterbacks.

One of the pro personnel evaluators called Ryan a "solid starter who will never be a top-five player" at the position. Another put it this way: "He's the most disappointing guy to me. He does not have a great line or run game, but other guys overcome that and are better than Ryan has been. You can throw stats away at some point and it's just a feel for the player."
Click to expand...


Tannehill

23. Ryan Tannehill, Miami Dolphins (3.32 average rating)

A pro personnel director put Tannehill in the second tier, but a defensive coordinator whose team faced the Dolphins was not convinced.

Either way, Tannehill needs better blocking. "To me, he is a manager of the game, a guy where if everything is right, he is OK," the defensive coordinator said. "We didn't fear him. I don't think he has the strongest arm, the best release. When you ask me about guys, I think about how I have to game plan against them. Am I afraid of them?"

One pro personnel evaluator placed Tannehill in the second tier, predicting good things for the third-year pro behind an upgraded line and within an uptempo offense.
Click to expand...

----

Separate Insider piece on how front offfice people and coaches are divided on certain guys. Front office people tend to like talent and put problems on coaching
http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/mik..._cid=InsiderTwitter_Sando_ExecsCoachesQBTiers

Cam

Eleven of 15 personnel evaluators placed Newton in Tier 2, while nine of the 11 coaches gave Newton a Tier 3 grade. A quarterbacks coach even placed him down in the Tier 4, noting that the Panthers have been relying on their ground game and defense to win games.

"He has all the tools and he is a big dude, too,” one defensive coordinator remarked. “Can you give him a 2½? I think if he has the same year he had last year, he elevates to a [Tier] 2. I give him a 3 right now."

Luck, like Newton, is an athletic marvel. Their rare physical attributes make them especially appealing to personnel types. Coaches appreciate those things as well, but are more likely to value a finished product. Luck accumulated a vast amount of experience in a pro-style offense at Stanford, while Newton was relatively raw coming out of Auburn.
Click to expand...
 
B

Bowser

Member
Talon said:
Hey, look. A reasonable list! Guess these actual FO guys know what they're doing...in aggregate.

Bet Phil Rivers was around Joe Flacco-level prior to this season, though.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's not too bad of a list. I have a hard time seeing Eli Manning as the 8th best QB in the league if what we saw last season is the type of play the Giants are going to get going forward, and I'd like to see Foles for more than basically a season before I anoint him Tier 2.
 
C

chuckddd

Fear of a GAF Planet
chris.trejo said:
Fatford isn't top ten, guys....brace yourselves...I hear stats coming
Click to expand...

"I've watched Stafford a lot and some of the decision-making is questionable," a defensive coordinator said. "[But] as a talent, I would have drafted the kid No. 1 when he was coming out of Georgia."

A head coach said it's critical for Stafford to work on his mechanics the way Brady and Peyton Manning have done over the years.
Click to expand...

:kas
 
T

Talon

Member
I think that's a fair assessment of Matt to this point. The thing is, our standard for QB is so low in Atlanta. Literally, Steve Bartkowski was the best QB in our history. We literally never had back-to-back winning seasons. Just a guy that's in the top 10 or so of the league is a revelation for us.

He certainly has good weapons on the outside, but, again, don't think he's wholly made by it.

That trip by Harry Douglas on the 33 yard line will haunt me to my grave. :|
 
D

Draxal

Member
Kinda interested on what they say about Eli. Our offensive everything completely didn't work last year, but his footwork regressed and was part of the problem.
 
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