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Giants -10 Dolphins, what am I missing? Is Jeff Hostetler starting for the Giants?
topsyturvy said:so grossman is better then griese? :lol, grossman have never ever had two 300 yard games, let alone one last season. grossman also won an award for those stats fyi, so that mean that tom brady and peyton manning and every other qb stats looked worst last season in that time frame.
Gigglepoo said:What the? He said he has never seen a Chicago QB play that well. I showed stats to the contrary. Grossman's fifth game last year was also really good. He didn't implode until the sixth game. Also, Grossman did have a 300 yard game last year... and a much better running game. If your team runs well, the QB tends to have less yards. Greise has thrown 30 more passes than Grossman did in his first four games last year. He has also thrown more INTs than Rex.
topsyturvy said:1. he threw more ints simply because he threw more passes, hello.
topsyturvy said:2. what game did grossman had a 300+ game in?
topsyturvy said:3. also, you can't possible tell me that grossman is better then griese. If griese comes out this season healthy, i bet a ban that he won't be inconsistent like grossman. I bet a 200 dollar bet on that one.
topsyturvy said:4. even without a running game, grossman wouldn't put numbers up like that.
Gigglepoo said:Grossman had 1 INT every 42 throws. Griese has thrown 1 INT every 27 passes. Griese is throwing INTs at a much higher rate than Grossman was at the beginning of last season.
When did I say Grossman was better than Griese? yacobod said this was the best QB play he's seen in six years. I provided stats that proved him wrong. Grossman played better in his first five starts last year than Griese is playing now.
topsyturvy said:alright, i understand your point, grossman might have been productive doing the first five games.
ok, i'm not gonna argue that, because its simply mute.Gigglepoo said:I have no idea what you're even arguing about. Grossman had better numbers last year than Griese is putting up this year. Therefore, Griese is not the best QB the Bears have had since Jim "Roids" Miller in 2001. Remember, people were saying Grossman was playing like an MVP at the beginning of last year. No one is saying that about Griese now.
Monday Morning Quarterback September 18, 2006
"Rex Grossman is just the leader the Bears need. The confidence of this guy comes through on every pass. After two weeks he's the NFL's leading passer, with a 128.7 rating. Think of this number: He's attempted 53 passes and has 551 passing yards. That's an amazing 10.4 yards per pass play, almost two yards better than any other quarterback in football. Peyton Manning's at 8.56, Brady at 7.37. And that was no slouchy Lions defense Grossman faced Sunday and riddled for four touchdown passes. "That's my Super Bowl team,'' Cris Collinsworth said Sunday ... the same thing he had said several Sundays before. Right now, who can doubt him, or them?"
Wellington said:And the two picks he threw against Connecticut had nothing to do with a loss eh? Interesting. I'd think 21-17 means the D was at least passable as well.
espn.com said:DATE OPP RESULT CMP ATT YDS CMP% LNG TD INT RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD
8/30 Murray State W 73-10 16 21 375 76.2 59 4 0 289.05 1 1 1.0 1 1
9/6 Middle Tennessee W 58-42 25 39 401 64.1 81 5 0 192.78 6 25 4.2 12 0
9/15 @Kentucky L 40-34 28 43 366 65.1 46 2 1 147.31 6 -7 -1.2 6 0
9/22 Syracuse L 38-35 45 65 555 69.2 36 4 2 155.10 2 -6 -3.0 4 0
9/29 @North Carolina State W 29-10 20 33 251 60.6 26 1 1 128.44 0 0 0.0 0 0
10/5 Utah L 44-35 39 58 467 67.2 45 4 0 157.64 3 -15 -5.0 0 0
10/13 @Cincinnati W 28-24 28 38 350 73.7 51 3 0 177.11 9 -12 -1.3 6 0
10/19 @Connecticut L 21-17 29 41 228 70.7 26 1 2 115.74 3 -1 -0.3 4 0
YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2004 66 98 819 67.3 8.36 74 6 2 11 153.67
2005 207 301 2883 68.8 9.58 76 19 5 17 166.73
2006 199 313 3049 63.6 9.74 75 16 5 16 159.08
2007 230 338 2993 68.0 8.86 81 24 6 11 162.31
Here's a funny stat- Ben has thrown 30+ attempts 3 times this year and in 2 of those games? The Steelers lost. Ben's just not that good of a qb.Spectral Glider said:And why is it 30 times? Why is that the magical number. What's his record when he throws 27, 28, or 29 times a game? Oh, I know why it's 30, because then that feeds the media bias of Ben as a game manager, otherwise the numbers don't jive. What a bunch of horse shit.
The Steelers Oline does not do the greatest job protecting Ben. Too often guys are coming unblocked and Ben has to move around in the pocket to buy time and get the ball down the field. It is a credit to Ben that he is able to do it consistently, but no qb can play well under that kind of pressure all the time.Striker said:Not his OL fault he kept holding onto the ball. Not his OL's fault Ben threw to defenders.
The OL and defense has carried the Steelers all season. They will have to if the Steelers want to contend.
Gigglepoo said:What the? He said he has never seen a Chicago QB play that well. I showed stats to the contrary. Grossman's fifth game last year was also really good. He didn't implode until the sixth game. Also, Grossman did have a 300 yard game last year... and a much better running game. If your team runs well, the QB tends to have less yards. Greise has thrown 30 more passes than Grossman did in his first four games last year. He has also thrown more INTs than Rex.
Triumph said:Here's a funny stat- Ben has thrown 30+ attempts 3 times this year and in 2 of those games? The Steelers lost. Ben's just not that good of a qb.
Trust me, as a Falcons fan I know the pain of having a sub-par QB. Denial will just prolong your pain- let it out, my friend. It's ok to cry.Spectral Glider said:Thanks for avoiding the question. Next one, so, passing attempts are the only way to judge wins and losses in this league or QB performance? Why don't you look at his avg. yards per attempt or per completion over his career, regardless of number of attempts, and tell me what you see. Going just by avg. per attempt: In '04 he was 5th in the league. In '05, he was 1st (SB win). In '06 he was 7th. This year so far, he's tied for 8th.
Triumph said:Trust me, as a Falcons fan I know the pain of having a sub-par QB. Denial will just prolong your pain- let it out, my friend. It's ok to cry.
You aren't even a Falcons fan so don't drag them down with you.Triumph said:Trust me, as a Falcons fan I know the pain of having a sub-par QB. Denial will just prolong your pain- let it out, my friend. It's ok to cry.
bionic77 said:You aren't even a Falcons fan so don't drag them down with you.
Spectral just ignore him. He is a Bradyphile and so of course he is programmed to lash out at the Messiah.
And since we are arguing over stupid things, doesn't Brady have a losing record when playing in Miami? Against the Dolphins? Sounds like a guy who can't win in the warm weather. In fact I don't think Belichick has ever beaten the Redskins (another warm climate team). I guess their success just a product of the cold climate in Foxboro (and of course videotapes)....
whytemyke said:And let's lay off atlanta fans. they haven't always had sub-average QBs. Remember Chris Chandler? HE was a winner! :lol
whytemyke said:I love that I live in Chicago because I get to see all these Bears fans use one game to hype the shit out of Brian Griese.
These people are mostly fools. Same people that think every year the Cubs are gonna win the pennant are the ones fooling themselves into thinking they'll make the playoffs and kick ass behind the awesomeness (lol) of cedric benson and brian griese.
and it's nice to know that even though we'll probably lose to chicago this weekend, because we never win in soulja field, we'll still be a game up on chicago in the standings as chicago goes into the bye week and we keep somehow winning games. :lolyacobod said:that being said, it will be nice when we beat detroit on sunday and move back to .500
topsyturvy said:speaking of qbs, in a order of 1-5, were would you place the best qb in both conferences?
afc:
1. tom brady / overrated, numbers isn't all him, to bad the record books will read it that way.
2. peyton manning
3. roflburgler
4. derrek anderson / underrated
5. phillip rivers
nfc:
1. tony romo
2. eli manning
3. brett farve / overrated
4. brian griese / highly underrated
5. jeff garcia
Andokuky said:Didn't the Bears and Lions just play like 2 weeks ago?
Dude... Griese started like 2 years in Denver and was a journeyman til he landed in Chicago. He's already had the chance to prove himself... he's good in bits but he won't carry a team for an entire season.Jon_Danger said:Top QB's
1. Peyton "The Man" Manning (He is just more skilled than brady)
2. Tom Brady (Must be nice to have 3 of the best WR's in the league)
3. Carson Palmer (Must... be good... for... shitty... team)
4. Favre (He is carrying the team for god's sake) WTB an RB.
5. Eli Manning (The giants turn-around has been awesome, and he is really starting to build up, he is the model of consistency)
How could you possibly have griese in the top 5? has has started how many games? he has yet to prove himself. Though, I will admit he was damn good on sunday, just what the bears needed. Now, if they can fix their sieve like defense, it will be all good, and the pack will have a real challenge in the NFC north.
Jon_Danger said:Top QB's
1. Peyton "The Man" Manning (He is just more skilled than brady)
2. Tom Brady (Must be nice to have 3 of the best WR's in the league)
3. Carson Palmer (Must... be good... for... shitty... team)
4. Favre (He is carrying the team for god's sake) WTB an RB.
5. Eli Manning (The giants turn-around has been awesome, and he is really starting to build up, he is the model of consistency)
How could you possibly have griese in the top 5? has has started how many games? he has yet to prove himself. Though, I will admit he was damn good on sunday, just what the bears needed. Now, if they can fix their sieve like defense, it will be all good, and the pack will have a real challenge in the NFC north.
whytemyke said:Dude... Griese started like 2 years in Denver and was a journeyman til he landed in Chicago. He's already had the chance to prove himself... he's good in bits but he won't carry a team for an entire season.
By the way, I don't think Manning is more skilled than Brady. Remember all those seasons the Colts won 14 or 13 games while Brady was barely holding it together in New England? Switch those positions and tell me how Manning does then. He's had an awesome, AWESOME offense surrounding him for his entire career (Edge, Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and that stacked O-Line) while Brady has languished up in NE with WRs like Reche Caldwell. His best WR til Moss was DEION BRANCH... I mean, c'mon, and his best RB was Dillon.
Switch those roles and then we'll talk. I think Brady is just as good as Manning.
In football, you're only as good as your tools. Brady had very, very pedestrian tools for years... I'd say barely even adequate and still put up decent numbers. Now he has the best tools money can buy and he's putting up numbers better than Manning. The proof is in the pudding, baby.Jon_Danger said:I dunno, it is really tough to say, I think they are both great, and it is very close... but if brady is so good, where has he been all these years?
Lets look at some numbers:Jon_Danger said:Top QB's
1. Peyton "The Man" Manning (He is just more skilled than brady)
2. Tom Brady (Must be nice to have 3 of the best WR's in the league)
3. Carson Palmer (Must... be good... for... shitty... team)
4. Favre (He is carrying the team for god's sake) WTB an RB.
5. Eli Manning (The giants turn-around has been awesome, and he is really starting to build up, he is the model of consistency)
How could you possibly have griese in the top 5? has has started how many games? he has yet to prove himself. Though, I will admit he was damn good on sunday, just what the bears needed. Now, if they can fix their sieve like defense, it will be all good, and the pack will have a real challenge in the NFC north.
Triumph said:I find the people ranking Peyton "11 TD 3 INT" Manning above Lord Brady to be laughable.
In football, you're only as good as your tools. Brady had very, very pedestrian tools for years... I'd say barely even adequate and still put up decent numbers. Now he has the best tools money can buy and he's putting up numbers better than Manning. The proof is in the pudding, baby.
bionic77 said:Lets look at some numbers:
COM ATT PCT YDS YPA LNG TD INT SK SYD RAT
C. Palmer 141 224 62.9 1717 7.67 56 13 9 10.0 75 89.1
B. Favre QB, GNB 160 247 64.8 1715 6.94 60 9 6 11.0 73 87.0
E. Manning NYG 137 227 60.4 1525 6.72 60 13 9 7.0 39 82.9
B. Roethlisberger 105 166 63.3 1303 7.85 43 13 5 15.0 119 101.1
Now going on the numbers explain how those 3 quarterbacks are rated higher in your list than Big Ben.
Edit: why did my numbers come out all weird? Can someone post their stats in a readable format?
Manning just knows how to win. I can't even remember the last time Brady won a super bowl or beat Manning head to head. Brady's all about the stats, Manning just does what it takes to win.Triumph said:I find the people ranking Peyton "11 TD 3 INT" Manning above Lord Brady to be laughable.
He hasn't thrown the ball as much because half of the Steelers games have been blowouts. Unlike the Pats the Steelers run the ball in the second half when they have a lead to speed up the clock.Jon_Danger said:Why, because he doesn't throw. To be considered a marquee QB, you gotta throw the ball alot more. Also... 43 yards? Come on, he is not throwing the long-ball.
bionic77 said:He hasn't thrown the ball as much because half of the Steelers games have been blowouts. Unlike the Pats the Steelers run the ball in the second half when they have a lead to speed up the clock.
That is the team's philosophy and shouldn't be a knock against a player. He is still on pace for 3500 yards, which is nothing to sneeze at.
Triumph said:I find the people ranking Peyton "11 TD 3 INT" Manning above Lord Brady to be laughable.
The vast majority of Parker's yards usually come in the 2nd half in garbage time.Jon_Danger said:I am sorry, handing the ball off to parker is not "skill" if he was on a more passing centric team, maybe I could give him more credit. He has yet to prove himself as a leader, and a playmaker.
He doesn't chuck it up in the air in between 2 defenders praying that his WR makes a spectacular catch with his friggin' armpit. He's also unselfish in the TD category. Everyone expecting the throw? Fuck it, give it to Addai even though Manning is the one that calls the plays. He also just runs out the clock instead of running up the score in the final moments.Triumph said:I find the people ranking Peyton "11 TD 3 INT" Manning above Lord Brady to be laughable.
Hey, the Pats are all about spreading it out. They let an undrafted rookie from the Naval Academy score the "Fuck You" TD a couple weeks ago.Rorschach said:He doesn't chuck it up in the air in between 2 defenders praying that his WR makes a spectacular catch with his friggin' armpit. He's also unselfish in the TD category. Everyone expecting the throw? Fuck it, give it to Addai even though Manning is the one that calls the plays. He also just runs out the clock instead of running up the score in the final moments.
That play was all Brady.Rorschach said:He doesn't chuck it up in the air in between 2 defenders praying that his WR makes a spectacular catch with his friggin' armpit.
I have to take issue with this. In 2004 when Manning set the record, the Colts WERE running the score up on people. They'd be doing it now if they could, but they're just not as good as Lord Brady and the Pats.Andokuky said:Brady has better numbers but Manning has played much better competition and the Colts don't run the score up on people.
Manning passed for 7 fourth quarter touchdowns that season, 1 while up by 14, move along, nothing to see here.Triumph said:I have to take issue with this. In 2004 when Manning set the record, the Colts WERE running the score up on people. They'd be doing it now if they could, but they're just not as good as Lord Brady and the Pats.
Rorschach said:He doesn't chuck it up in the air in between 2 defenders praying that his WR makes a spectacular catch with his friggin' armpit. He's also unselfish in the TD category. Everyone expecting the throw? Fuck it, give it to Addai even though Manning is the one that calls the plays. He also just runs out the clock instead of running up the score in the final moments.
firex said:it's just wrong to compare Brady to Super Mario with that avatar. I mean, they're both after kids, but I don't think Mario wants to rape and/or eat them.
oh, and I don't get the espn rumor about chad being traded. It's not going to happen... and that blowup marvin lewis had after the MNF game with the patriots wasn't even directed at chad anyway. it was at TJ. he was the one saying he needed more plays.
yacobod said:bears fans know grossman put up numbers through the first quarter of last season, due to the reasons i've outlined above, i think your argument is pretty stupid