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[bionic77]

it's just wrong to compare Brady to Super Mario with that avatar. I mean, they're both after kids, but I don't think Mario wants to rape and/or eat them.

oh, and I don't get the espn rumor about chad being traded. It's not going to happen... and that blowup marvin lewis had after the MNF game with the patriots wasn't even directed at chad anyway. it was at TJ. he was the one saying he needed more plays.

Did you see Keyshawn grilling Chad on Sunday? One of the most retarded things I have ever seen. Keyshawn was acting like he was some tough reporter whenever Chad tried to ask him a question.

Yes Keyshawn, because Chad Johnson talks trash and has some stupid TD celebrations that is the reason the Bungles defense cannot tackle the opposing team's running back!

Speaking of distractions, WTF is Keyshawn? You wrote a book entitled Throw me the damn ball! after your first season (where you didn't do a whole lot).

 

[topsyturvy]

a top 5 QB in the NFC? Please.

-McNabb <------ wtf
-Hasselbeck <----come on
-Eli (maybe) <---- maybe? hes the best top five nfc qb bar none!
-Favre < no argument here
-Brees <------ this year? really?
-Bulger <----- ok, know your simply crazy?
-Romo
-Kitna <----- he good

all these QBs I would place ahead of Griese. One last drive can't erase a career of mediocrity, so let's everyone stop slurping Brian Griese.

who even mention that last drive? since he became qb for the bears, the offense shot up the charts drastically. its like from 30 to 13! know.

Detroit played Chicago in week 4, and scored something like 34 points in the fourth quater

shitty defense and a shitty secondary don't have anything to do with grieseball.

 

[Slo]

who even mention that last drive? since he became qb for the bears, the offense shot up the charts drastically. its like from 30 to 13! know.


shitty defense and a shitty secondary don't have anything to do with grieseball.

WTF :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[firex]

nah, I didn't bother watching because I knew it was going to be some stupid espn character assassination job like they do with every other flashy/emotional/outspoken/controversial player.

oh, and for once Palmer is actually having a down year. he's still doing really well, but his ints come because he's pretty much forcing some passes/receivers are getting crossed up, because they have to score a td every drive just to stay in the game. that's why I'd put him at like #5 for afc qbs. at least on that list, he's certainly better than philip rivers.

I don't think topsyturvy gets that whytemyke's rankings are based off each guy's career and not just this season.

 

[Rorschach]

It's like some of you didn't pay attention to Manning's play calling until last year.

What does this even mean? We're talking about this year's stats.

It's like some of you didn't pay attention to Manning's play calling until last year.

I like how all of the sudden we went from questioning whether Moss had any good years left in him to declaring Welker and Stallworth among the top receivers in the league (not you specifically Rorschach).

Manning and Brady both throw incredible deep balls, jesus, the things some of you argue about.

I know you said not me specifically, but I wanna clear some things up.

Welker has always been good. I was impressed with him when he was in Miami. He is a good receiver. I'd even say he's been better than Stallworth who is their #2. The main reason he's the slot receiver is because he's great in space and he's a great possession receiver. There's a reason he got that fat contract.

Stallworth is getting into the grove of things finally and his speed makes him a great outside threat. I wouldn't say he's top tier, but he has potential.

I never doubted Moss would thrive. I called it before the season started and I picked him up in all but 1 FF league cheap because no one believed in him.

As for deep balls, I've seen better technique from Manning. That incredible throw this week where he threw it just above the defenders in the middle of the field, but low enough so that he could get some serious speed on it was just amazing. The arch was absolutely incredible. I don't think Brady could make those kind of throws. And if he can, I haven't seen it.

And I'm not saying Brady isn't a good QB, I'm just saying he's been bailed out and that contributes to the stats. Placing him above Manning simply because of his stats means you haven't been watching both QBs play all season.

ESPN's having to back off the Chad Johnson hate machine after he totally schooled Keyshawn in that interview.

That was awesome. Keyshawn had no real point. They were trying to make something out of nothing. I like how Keyshawn thought he won that too.

 

[Triumph]

Manning passed for 7 fourth quarter touchdowns that season, 1 while up by 14, move along, nothing to see here.

Yes, but Peyton Manning is a fetus-headed suck mutant and Tom Brady fucks hot chicks.

 

[topsyturvy]

I don't think topsyturvy gets that whytemyke's rankings are based off each guy's career and not just this season.

well, i was clearly talking about this season.

the list i made was clearly my opinion and i asked you guys what would you put in each conferences top 5 qbs. Its not official by all means. :lol

 

[Slo]

Griese is just a guy. Like Dilfer, Garcia, and Warner. Any one of those guys could start for the purple, but they'd still be bottom tier guys.

 

[levious]

What does this even mean? We're talking about this year's stats.

fair enough, if you're only talking about this year, I really think he changed as a qb last year, for the better.

Brady has always had incredible deep touch, and he's shown it this year, people are focusing too much on the two he threw up to Moss this week.

I've been watching both their entire careers, I really think they're evenly matched as far as pure skill, and Brady always had the mental/composure edge. Manning has stepped it up in that regard big time though..

 

[captive]

shitty defense and a shitty secondary don't have anything to do with grieseball.

Um ok? I wasnt talking about Greise. Someone asked didnt the Bears and Lions just play, and i was responding, because they did infact play 4 weeks ago.

 

[DY_nasty]

I mean, you can throw Testaverde up there on that list going by that logic.

"zomg, he was here for less than week. Didn't even know the guys names on the field. Had no idea how to run the offense for the entire game. Shitty O-Line. Pansies for running backs. BUT HE WON A GAME AT 62 YEARS OLD ZOMG MAKE A MOVIE"

Panthers fans are sensible.

Spoiler

Testaverde > All Bears, Vikings, Ravens, and Dolphins QBs x 2

 

[topsyturvy]

I love this "Bears fans" crap. Until this year, I saw every Bears game from 1998 through last season. I may not have been a "Bears fan," but I sure as hell knew the team. Grossman's stats were better at the beginning of last year (less INT, better TD ratio (more TDs per throw), better yards per throw/catch average, better record). You can dispute that all you want, but Grossman was an early MVP candidate and Griese is not. You said you haven't seen a Bears QB play this well since Jim Miller. That is a lie. Yes, Grossman was eventually exposed, but he was damn good through the first five games last year. Oh, and if you want combacks, he had that killer one in the Metrodome with the clutch pass to Berian.

why are you still comparing the first 4 games of last season to this season? like i said, how is grossman playing better then griese with his stats being well above grossmans with the acception of ints? we also all know how that turned out for fucks sake anyway. good rex, bad rex became his tag and I doubt that griese will have those type of games. Again, i can't stress this enough, if griese goes on and get 0.0 ratings like grossman did, then i'll give you 200 dollars. OK? Oh and lets compare his last 3 games with his last 3 games last season. alright?

Um ok? I wasnt talking about Greise. Someone asked didnt the Bears and Lions just play, and i was responding, because they did infact play 4 weeks ago.

i know, :lol relax. i guess that came out wrong, sry dude :lol :lol

I mean, you can throw Testaverde up there on that list going by that logic.

"zomg, he was here for less than week. Didn't even know the guys names on the field. Had no idea how to run the offense for the entire game. Shitty O-Line. Pansies for running backs. BUT HE WON A GAME AT 62 YEARS OLD ZOMG MAKE A MOVIE"

Panthers fans are sensible.

Spoiler

Testaverde > All Bears, Vikings, Ravens, and Dolphins QBs x 2

he did only practice for 4 days before he came out, plus his career stats is already pretty decent. anyway, Like i said before, my fucking list isn't official, jesus christ. :lol

 

[Gigglepoo]

Griese is just a guy. Like Dilfer, Garcia, and Warner. Any one of those guys could start for the purple, but they'd still be bottom tier guys.

Whoa whoa whoa.

Garcia is definitely not "just a guy." Do you really think Tampa Bay would be as good this year with Griese or Dilfer at QB? And Warner may not be great now, but I refuse to label anyone who played as well as he did in the past as "just a guy." Those years in SL were some of the best QB play I have ever seen.

I'll bite in the NFC QB ranking battle, though. I'm going 15 deep! Starters only. Holcomb, Grossman, Lienert and Jake need not apply. Oh, and this is more of a "who would play the best on a decent team" ranking. I'm not going to bury Bulger because his O Line is awful. And I'm nto ranking Alex Smith for obvious reasons.

Pro Bowl
1) Romo
2) Eli
3) Favre

One Bad Year
4)Bulger

Ultimate Competitors
5)Kitna
6)Garcia

Glory Days... they'll pass you by
7)Hassleback
8)Warner

Inconsistent career, draft him next year
9)Brees

Up and Coming
10)Campbell

Sad but true
11) McNabb
12) Griese

Career backups
13) Harrington
14) Carr
15) Jackson

why are you still comparing the first 4 games of last season to this season?

He said he hasn't seen a QB play this well in Chicago since Jim Milller. Why is this so hard to understand? Grossman was playing better at the beginning of last season than Griese is playing now. He was an MVP candidate! It doesn't matter what he did after, what matters is that Griese is not playing the best QB in Chicago in six years.

 

[Rorschach]

Brady is solid as a rock in the pocket, but look at that pocket. He has 50 years to throw and he still makes those bad throws. And it's not just last week. He does it often towards the sidelines. He was much more careful with the ball last year and had more INTs and less TDs last season.

And again, I'm not saying he can't throw deep. He has shown great touch on some deep balls. The argument was over which QB is better overall. And there are some things that Manning has shown me that I've never seen from Brady.

 

[topsyturvy]

Whoa whoa whoa.

Garcia is definitely not "just a guy." Do you really think Tampa Bay would be as good this year with Griese or Dilfer at QB? And Warner may not be great now, but I refuse to label anyone who played as well as he did in the past as "just a guy." Those years in SL were some of the best QB play I have ever seen.
i agree, garcia is fucking awesome

Sad but true
11) McNabb
12) Griese <---- your just doing that in spite. :lol griese played so much better then mcnabb and you know it. just admit it

He said he hasn't seen a QB play this well in Chicago since Jim Milller. Why is this so hard to understand? Grossman was playing better at the beginning of last season than Griese is playing now. He was an MVP candidate! It doesn't matter what he did after, what matters is that Griese is not playing the best QB in Chicago in six years.

ok whatever, something tells me that griese gonna have a better year anyway, if a injury doesn't happen. Im done with the griese shit. I'm just giddy because my season holder place tickets reserve just came in last night for dem saints :lol :lol :lol

 

[woodchuck]

I haven't seen Brady make the type of throws that Manning has. Brady is very accurate but all of his receivers seem to be WIDE OPEN, and when they're not, the receiver makes an amazing play on the ball like what Moss did. It's not Brady's fault that the plays designed are so good. Who knows, maybe Brady can make the tight throws if he is ever forced to.

Manning seems to be better at fitting the ball even when no one seems to be open at first glance.

and Romo was seen at a restaurant with Sophia Bush. HOT

 

[Gigglepoo]

wait, is this just career or this season? if not season, why aren't you?

It's a "who would be best on a decent team" list. I wrote that at the top. If it was career, Favre would obviously be at the top. You can swap McNabb and Griese if it will make you happy. Both are below average QBs. And Brees has been inconsistent his entire career. It's why he didn't last in SD. One good year, one bad year. Right now, he's on a bad year so I wouldn't take him above those other QBs.

 

[snacknuts]

Yes, but Peyton Manning is a god among insects and Tom Brady rapes old women.

Fixed.

 

[topsyturvy]

It's a "who would be best on a decent team" list. I wrote that at the top. If it was career, Favre would obviously be at the top. You can swap McNabb and Griese if it will make you happy. Both are below average QBs. And Brees has been inconsistent his entire career. It's why he didn't last in SD. One good year, one bad year. Right now, he's on a bad year so I wouldn't take him above those other QBs.

griese defense is because he's literally just started 4 games ago... ok, ok, i'm gonna stop talking about him know. :lol

 

[Rorschach]

It's a "who would be best on a decent team" list. I wrote that at the top. If it was career, Favre would obviously be at the top. You can swap McNabb and Griese if it will make you happy. Both are below average QBs. And Brees has been inconsistent his entire career. It's why he didn't last in SD. One good year, one bad year. Right now, he's on a bad year so I wouldn't take him above those other QBs.

I don't want to get into this circular argument, but just for the record, Griese never played in SD. Maybe you mean the other AFC West team. The dirty one. Where he was for 5 years.

 

[levious]

Brady is solid as a rock in the pocket, but look at that pocket. He has 50 years to throw and he still makes those bad throws. And it's not just last week. He does it often towards the sidelines. He was much more careful with the ball last year and had more INTs and less TDs last season.

And again, I'm not saying he can't throw deep. He has shown great touch on some deep balls. The argument was over which QB is better overall. And there are some things that Manning has shown me that I've never seen from Brady.

well the one he threw up to Moss and underthrew he was being hit. Manning's protection is on the same level as Brady's. We're really splitting hairs here though.

 

[topsyturvy]

I don't want to get into this circular argument, but just for the record, Griese never played in SD. Maybe you mean the other AFC West team. The dirty one. Where he was for 5 years.

he's referring to brees

 

[Rorschach]

well the one he threw up to Moss and underthrew he was being hit. Manning's protection is on the same level as Brady's. We're really splitting hairs here though.

Manning was on his back most of this week. He has a rookie at the line. Yes, his protection is good, but he's under pressure much more. No way is it at the same level....

Patriots OL = most underrated guys in the entire NFL. I want to make babies with them.

he's referring to brees

oops! That's what I get for skimming through the thing

 

[levious]

sorry, I'm slipping back into an overall argument... Brady's surroundings on offense are definitely better than Manning's this year, but previous years it was the opposite.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Brady vs. Manning is pretty clear. Since they are both winners and they are both great passers, I'm taking the guy who can run as well.

 

[topsyturvy]

i'm going with brady hands down.

brady can score on the first drive, in fact, they did it with every game this season. manning cant. I'm not gonna beat around the bush simply because i dislike the guy. He's the qb to beat right now and manning doesn't come close with brady having those weapons on the offensive line and receiving core.

 

[Andokuky]

I have to take issue with this. In 2004 when Manning set the record, the Colts WERE running the score up on people. They'd be doing it now if they could, but they're just not as good as Lord Brady and the Pats.

I know someone else already posted and proved you wrong, but I'll respond anyway since you directly quoted me. Manning only threw 1 touchdown while winning in the 4th quarter that year. He threw 5 while losing and 1 while tied. Brady already has I believe 4 touchdowns in the 4th with his team already up double digits.

Also you're crazy if you believe the Colts can't blow people out. They are still as good offensively as ever. The Colts have also played 2 of the top 5 pass defenses. The Patriots are playing the 25th, 26th, 28th, 29th, 30th :lol

 

[Andokuky]

I don't want to get into this circular argument, but just for the record, Griese never played in SD. Maybe you mean the other AFC West team. The dirty one. Where he was for 5 years.

He played in Chokeland? When?

 

[Flizzzipper]

Apparently the Jags are giving Drew Henson a workout...:lol

 

[Gigglepoo]

He's the qb to beat right now and manning doesn't come close with brady having those weapons on the offensive line and receiving core.

Wait.. what? What!? The difference between these two QBs is razor thin. Brady has great WRs and Offensive line but, guess what, so does Manning! And Manning has beaten Brady 3 straight times. Choose who you want but you have to realize these two are very, very close.

 

[Rorschach]

Apparently the Jags are giving Drew Henson a workout...:lol

Hah! The Colts should give him a workout too. Maybe he can score on the first drive because Manning isn't capable.

brady can score on the first drive, in fact, they did it with every game this season. manning cant.

 

[levious]

I prefer a qb who can score on the last drive, and that would be both of them.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Dr Z.

"Listen to this bit of information provided by Detroit Mike, our correspondent who worked the Lions game: Jeff Garcia is the only QB in recorded history to start at least five games for five teams in five years. Niners, Browns, Lions, Eagles, Bucs. And only one of them, Cleveland, improved the next season, after he left."

Pssh, "just a guy" my ass.

 

[topsyturvy]

Wait.. what? What!? The difference between these two QBs is razor thin. Brady has great WRs and Offensive line but, guess what, so does Manning! And Manning has beaten Brady 3 straight times. Choose who you want but you have to realize these two are very, very close.

i give you a million dollars that the patriots not only will score on the first drive, but they gonna blow out the colts. in spite of being razor thin close.

 

[Gigglepoo]

i give you a million dollars that the patriots not only will score on the first drive, but they gonna blow out the colts. in spite of being razor thin close.

What is your obsession with the first drive? And are you arguing that Brady will blow out Manning or that the Patriots will blow out the Colts?

Since you didn't ask for anything in return, though, I will accept your offer. Blowout has to be by more than two scores (a 17 point victory).

 

[methodman]

1 million-katrillion-billion dollars!

 

[yacobod]

I love this "Bears fans" crap. Until this year, I saw every Bears game from 1998 through last season. I may not have been a "Bears fan," but I sure as hell knew the team. Grossman's stats were better at the beginning of last year (less INT, better TD ratio (more TDs per throw), better yards per throw/catch average, better record). You can dispute that all you want, but Grossman was an early MVP candidate and Griese is not. You said you haven't seen a Bears QB play this well since Jim Miller. That is a lie. Yes, Grossman was eventually exposed, but he was damn good through the first five games last year. Oh, and if you want combacks, he had that killer one in the Metrodome with the clutch pass to Berian.

lol you are still clinging to the first 5 games of last season, and i'll give you that, he played really well

but there were reasons why grossman was successful in the beginning of the season as i've outlined in my previous post (which you chose to ignore), and he fell apart as the season went on, they don't hand out mvp awards and championships after 4 weeks of football

there is a reason why ppl were calling him "wrecks" grossman or Good Rex/Bad Rex last year, and it wasnt because of stellar qb play

 

[Tamanon]

Jags trying out Doug Johnson, Drew Henson and Todd Bouman....Garrard to miss a month.

Motherfuckers. It's a horrible time for a QB injury, since a)free agent QBs have been lapped up around the league at a record pace this year and b)trade deadline is passed....

 

[topsyturvy]

What is your obsession with the first drive? And are you arguing that Brady will blow out Manning or that the Patriots will blow out the Colts?

Since you didn't ask for anything in return, though, I will accept your offer. Blowout has to be by more than two scores (a 17 point victory).

the patriots is on this journey of ass whooping because of the afc championship game. If you think that the pats isn't prepared for the colts. i feel sorry for fetus head and all your moniez.

yes, i do think it will be more then a 17 point game.

no, i don't have a obsession of the first drive, why do you think that?

Yes, i think that tom brady will out play manning in that game.

 

[Gigglepoo]

lol you are still clinging to the first 5 games of last season, and i'll give you that, he played really well

No, I understand how defense and a running game contribute to a QBs success. Most QBs are able to do well because their team is playing well. I can't help it that Benson isn't as good as Jones and their D is struggling this year. I'm just showing proof that Grossman was playing better at the beginning of last year than Griese is now. The future doesn't factor into my argument. It's just a matter of how well the position of QB was played in Chicago during any stretch. Grossman comes out over Griese by quite a wide margin.

griese has been a revelation for bears fans, probably the best quarterback play i've seen for the bears since jim miller in 2001

Once again, MVP candidate. That's pretty lofty. Griese isn't even a Pro Bowl candidate at this point. The only category Griese actually did "better" in last year was number of attempts. Everything else went to Grossman.

 

[yacobod]

i think manning and brady are pretty equal when it comes to qb play

saying that brady is only putting up numbers because of his surrounding cast is pretty funny considering manning's always had a phenomenal supporting cast on offense

i dont think the pats will blow out the colts either, it will probably be a close contest, can go either way imo, colts defense is playing much better this year so far in the regular season, bob sanders defensive mvp for that team

 

[Gigglepoo]

saying that brady is only putting up numbers because of his surrounding cast is pretty funny considering manning's always had a phenomenal supporting cast on offense

Yup, QBs pretty much only put up phenominal numbers when they have a great supporting cast. It's the nature of the beast. Look at Bulger this year. Did he lose his skills in one year? Or is his team suddenly lousy? Brady and Manning have both proven they can win and have both proven they can put up ridiculous numbers when they have the talent around them.

I would take Manning in a dome/ideal weather conditions and Brady in bad weather. But both have proven they can win in any situation.

 

[Tamanon]

Yup, QBs pretty much only put up phenominal numbers when they have a great supporting cast. It's the nature of the beast. Look at Bulger this year. Did he lose his skills in one year? Or is his team suddenly lousy? Brady and Manning have both proven they can win and have both proven they can put up ridiculous numbers when they have the talent around them.

I would take Manning in a dome/ideal weather conditions and Brady in bad weather. But both have proven they can win in any situation.

Except for Marino, heh.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

jeff Garcia is the best freckled quarterback to ever strap on a ...well he's strapped on a lot of things but that's beside the point

 

[topsyturvy]

No, I understand how defense and a running game contribute to a QBs success. Most QBs are able to do well because their team is playing well. I can't help it that Benson isn't as good as Jones and their D is struggling this year. I'm just showing proof that Grossman was playing better at the beginning of last year than Griese is now. The future doesn't factor into my argument. It's just a matter of how well the position of QB was played in Chicago during any stretch. Grossman comes out over Griese by quite a wide margin.



Once again, MVP candidate. That's pretty lofty. Griese isn't even a Pro Bowl candidate at this point. The only category Griese actually did "better" in last year was number of attempts. Everything else went to Grossman.

gigglepoo, griese is in an entire different situation grossman was in. comparing grossman of last year is pointless and mute. grossman this year is shit and thats all that matters. Griese is having a better outing with leadership and poise as a better qb then grossman ever showed. So you can point out last year stats as if it really mattered but it simply don't. You have nothing else to fall back on but those stats, which still shows that griese is having a better success rate then grossman anyway. griese does things grossman can't do and that lead his team. So it just sounds as if your reaching and streching here, grossman and griese in the long run will be as mute as you comparing the first four games now, because everyone on this board knows that griese is better. Fact! with out getting hurt, he'll be much better weekly wise then grossman did through the 06 season.

for the record, you have compare week 4 to week 7, because griese started late fyi. If you look at it that way anyway.

 

[Slo]

Giggles, I'll just have to disagree with you on Garcia.

 

[topsyturvy]

Giggles, I'll just have to disagree with you on Garcia.

garcia is a good qb. :/

 

[levious]

jeff Garcia is the best freckled quarterback to ever strap on a ...well he's strapped on a lot of things but that's beside the point

didn't SJ9 have freckles?

 

[Triumph]

jeff Garcia is the best freckled quarterback to ever strap on a ...well he's strapped on a lot of things but that's beside the point

:lol :lol :lol

 

[topsyturvy]

Detroit at Chicago - lions look well on its way to go 10-6... fucking kitna fails in fantasy footbal tho.
Pittsburgh at Cincinnati
Oakland at Tennessee
Cleveland at St. Louis
NY Giants at Miami -MEGATON UPSET
Philadelphia at Minnesota
Buffalo at NY Jets - wow at the jets meltdown
Houston at San Diego
Jacksonville at Tampa Bay - garcia am teh awesome
New Orleans at San Francisco - niners are horrible, :lol, those of you hoping that alex smith is your savior should jump on the bears wagon. They actually have one.
Washington at New England - why fight it.