Support NeoGAF

[brucewaynegretzky]

CrossingBroad sums up the shitshow that is the Flyers this year pretty well...

I love a team that can fight and play... and unfortunately this team can do neither.

 

[Sanjuro]

I don't think fighting will ever be fully removed from hockey, but changes need to be made to make it safer, and the NHL isn't doing nearly enough right now. Guys like Scott have no place in this league, and not punishing a guy for detroying another player who was unwilling to fight just further promotes this kind of behavior. I don't know how you look at that fight and just say meh.

I also questioned his posting but I never made a joke about the actual incident.

They can't really do much though, that's the point. They have to pretend they are. Largely they are going to do that by continuing to punish cheap shots and research in new equipment. Things like that.

NHL has that strange positive advantage of not being a popular sport in America. Right now the NFL is getting reamed by all the Soccer Moms. So, unless it's a major market in the U.S., it's not going to get much attention.

 

[Nuklear]

Fighting has been placed on too high a pedestal in hockey to take it out. It's like a band aid that you'd have to rip out a some point.

Personally, I'd still watch the game without it. But the idea of players policing themselves or using it as a tactical advantage has become too commonplace that it would take time for the league to adjust without it. It could take years, as you begin to see enforcers retire or be repurposed as third/fourth liners, and you'd have younger players entering the league, educated in playing the game without fighting as part of it.

You'd probably see plenty of players throw the rulebook out and fight anyway, then just take the eventual suspension that comes with fighting. I can see the league do 10 games for fighting, and bump up the suspensions even higher at 20 at some point to send a clear message. All hypothetical right now.

I really don't get the argument that fighting is a part of hockey when in International Hockey it's outlawed already and the games are still great especially during the Olympics. The NHL took a step closer for fighting going away with the helmet rule this season. They are slowly moving their way to outlawing it and stuff like last night will just hasten it along.

Personally if I want to watch a real fight I'll watch the UFC, Boxing, Glory, or some other similar combat spot. Hockey fights just aren't that exciting.

 

[Sanjuro]

I really don't get the argument that fighting is a part of hockey...

It's a part of the NHL, not hockey. Just clarifying for the sake of discussion. I have no problems with other brands of hockey, e.g. college hockey.

 

[Pickles the Firecat]

It's really not two separate arguments though.

You're anti-fighting in hockey, which means you're not a fan of the NHL brand. I'm not going to be huffy-puffy and tell you to stop watching or any nonsense, but that's just how the NHL is and likely forever will be.

I'm willing to tolerate fighting because I love the sport and I love the league. You can be against league policies and still be a fan of the brand.

That's just me. I usually believe any altercations from the goaltenders regardless of intent should be issued a lone game. Doesn't really matter though. It's like suspending a pitcher for 5 games in MLB.

Start Scrivens --> send Carcillo after someone --> send Scrivens after opposing goalie --> lol

They can't really do much though, that's the point. They have to pretend they are. Largely they are going to do that by continuing to punish cheap shots and research in new equipment. Things like that.

NHL has that strange positive advantage of not being a popular sport in America. Right now the NFL is getting reamed by all the Soccer Moms. So, unless it's a major market in the U.S., it's not going to get much attention.

It's never going to get any attention while fighting is a showcase of the sport. People don't take hockey seriously in America because of it. Hockey is seen as a sideshow, carnival ass thing to enjoy. 90% of the conversations I have when people find out I'm a hockey fan end up about how hilarious fights are.

The conversation is only going to veer more toward the anti-fighting side with time. And with more measures being placed to prevent or dull fighting, it's going to amplify the conversation as to why it's allowed in the first place.

Regardless, what Emery did is so far outside the bounds of the normal fighting conversation that I don't know how we ended up here.

 

[Var]

I don't think fighting should be taken out of the NHL, but there should be some rule tuning to discourage wailing on a guy after you drop him.

 

[Smiley90]

I remember, there were a couple occasions and involved him as well. Smiley too. Difference here is you don't have a continuous habit other than regular good natured shit.



Yeah, this is where the discussion starts going all over the place from that UFC comment. Only thing I can take away is every NHL player is different. There are a ton who respect the game and how fighting is initiated and done on this level.

Wait, what'd I do Oo

 

[Revenant]

I don't think fighting should be taken out of the NHL, but there should be some rule tuning to discourage wailing on a guy after you drop him.

or you know fighting a guy that A. has no intention of doing so, and B. Has no reason to be wailed on.....

Hockey always talks about this vague, amoebic thing called "the code" what part of that did Holtby break other than wearing the opposing teams sweater.

did holtby flash his pecker at emery across the ice? what business does Emery have to start punching someone in the back of the head, even after taking him down, what twice?

oh wait he said "defend yourself" to holtby, that makes it better....

 

[Sanjuro]

I'm willing to tolerate fighting because I love the sport and I love the league. You can be against league policies and still be a fan of the brand.

That was my point. I understand and appreciate the people watch and love the NHL brand who don't enjoy the fighting, I'm just not a fan of those people outspoken against it when there are alternatives. It's like going to McDonalds, then suing them because you're a fat. You know what you got yourself into.

It's never going to get any attention while fighting is a showcase of the sport. People don't take hockey seriously in America because of it. It's a sideshow, carnival ass thing to enjoy. 90% of the conversations I have when people find out I'm a hockey fan end up about how hilarious fights are.

The conversation is only going to veer more toward the anti-fighting side with time. And with more measures being placed to prevent or dull fighting, it's going to amplify the conversation as to why it's allowed in the first place.

Regardless, what Emery did is so far outside the bounds of the normal fighting conversation that I don't know how we ended up here.

Yes/No. The conversation is going to veer in that direction, but it's never going to mean anything.

If you've seen the episode of The Simpsons "Itchy & Scratchy & Marge", that is pretty much what Bettman is facing.

 

[sazabirules]

I didn't even see the first time that Volpatti stopped fighting after Downie asked him to stop after getting hit pretty hard. That was a good decision.

 

[Unhandled Exception]

I didn't even see the first time that Volpatti stopped fighting after Downie asked him to stop after getting hit pretty hard. That was a good decision.

imagine if Volpatti were the one asking to stop, wouldn't have happened

 

[Sanjuro]

Wait, what'd I do Oo

I don't remember who did what. Just names and that I was in no joking mood.

You would have all been Holtbys.

 

[Revenant]

Schneider/Brodeur better watch himself tonight after the flyers get their asses blown out again.

 

[MutFox]

Some of the best hockey I have ever seen was during the last Olympics...
No fights, all skill.

It was fast and just plain awesome to watch.

 

[TemplaerDude]

God I fucking hate the Leafs.

I especially hate how their coming to town dictates a 4 pm start just so those wankers out east can see don cherry bumble through a bunch of sad excuses for why they're getting their asses kicked by us.

 

[Curufinwe]

CrossingBroad sums up the shitshow that is the Flyers this year pretty well...

I love a team that can fight and play... and unfortunately this team can do neither.

I stopped watching this team after Anaheim scored the tying goal on Tuesday night and have no plans to start again till next season. They've gone from just being an under-performing mess to being a total disgrace. I wish I had picked another team to follow 20 years ago because right now I am ashamed to be a Flyers fan.

 

[DopeyFish]

God I fucking hate the Leafs.

I especially hate how their coming to town dictates a 4 pm start just so those wankers out east can see don cherry bumble through a bunch of sad excuses for why they're getting their asses kicked by us.

dat insecurity

 

[MutFox]

God I fucking hate the Leafs.

I especially hate how their coming to town dictates a 4 pm start just so those wankers out east can see don cherry bumble through a bunch of sad excuses for why they're getting their asses kicked by us.

Yeah, I said this the other day,
and the leafs fans here didn't understand what I meant by prefered treatment...

It's like it went way over their head...

dat insecurity

Example

 

[Quick]

God I fucking hate the Leafs.

I especially hate how their coming to town dictates a 4 pm start just so those wankers out east can see don cherry bumble through a bunch of sad excuses for why they're getting their asses kicked by us.

EYYYY ALRIGHT ALRIGHT OKAY LET'S GO

YOU VANCOUVER PEOPLE SHOULD FEEL HONOURED FER HAVIN' THE LEAFS GRACE YER TOWN WITH THEIR GOOD ONTARIO GUYS.

LOLONGO COULD USE SOME LESSONS IN BEIN' MORE CANADIAN FROM SOME OF THESE GUYS ON THE LEAFS. LOOK AT KESSEL, GOOD CANADIAN KID JUST HAVIN' SOME FUN OUT THERE AN' SCORIN'. JAKEY GARDENER PLAYIN' DEFENCE ALRIGHT. AN' HOW 'BOUT DAT JAMEY VAN REEMSDOOK KID, TOO. GOOD CANADIANS.

AN' YER ALL LOOKIN' LIKE SISSIES WITH YER INCORRECT TIME. IT'LL BE SEVEN O'CLOCK WHEN THE GAME STARTS. FOUR O'CLOCK? DO YOU LIVE IN RUSSIA? WHAT'S WRONG WITH YA?

LET ME TELL YOU A STORY, KIDS: I WAS IN THE BATHROOM WASHIN' MY HANDS, WHEN I SAW LOLONGO TAKIN' A PISS...SITTIN' DOWN! WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT GUY? I SAW KESSEL PISSIN' IN A STAAL LIKE A REAL CANADIAN, AND BOY THAT BROUGHT TEARS IN MY EYES, I'LL TELL YOU WHAT. AN' I ASKED HIM THE TIME, I SAID, "EY PHILLY, WHAT TIME IS IT?" HE SAID TO ME, HE SAID, "DON, IT'S SEVEN...EASTERN TIME - THE WHITE TIME." I REMEMBER WATCHIN' BOBBY ORR PEE ON A STALL MANY TIMES. IT'S BEAUTIFUL. GOD LOVE HIM. GET YER ACT TOGETHER, LOLONGO, AND SET YER CLOCKS RIGHT, VANCOUVER.

 

[bonesmccoy]

That is about as much as they can do without killing their audience. Really isn't many alternative options available.

Fighting will be banned in the next 5-10 years. I doubt it will 'kill' the audience.

Canucks-Gaf, I think the 4pm start is dumb as well. CBC couldn't just make it a 6pm PST game or something? I mean, unlike Victoria/Vancouver, the GTA doesn't shut down at 9pm.

 

[Parch]

I'm not really sure what Emery did to deserve a suspension. There has to be something in the rule book to define the infraction. He can get an instigator penalty and a game misconduct, but I don't think there's anything he did that justifies additional games. You can't suspend a guy just because you don't like what he did. Maybe the league will find something to make a point, but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets nothing.

I do think the refs should have stepped in when it got out of hand. There's the problem. But I didn't see anything considered a suspendable offence on Emery's part.

The two goalies fought. So what. Goalies have fought before. Holtby was smiling and laughing about it afterwards. But people are so grossly offended and disgusted about this horrible display? Good grief. It's not the crime of the century, it's hockey.

 

[DopeyFish]

Yeah, I said this the other day,
and the leafs fans here didn't understand what I meant by prefered treatment...

It's like it went way over their head...



Example

how is that an example?

I don't whine when forced to watch games at different times

when the leafs were playing the flyers in the playoffs a long time ago we had games at noon, 3 pm etc

I didn't go on GAF and cry about it. I hauled my TV outside and made a party out of it.

what is crying going to change? Fuck... The leafs were in the west at one point and 2/3rds of the season was late night viewing

 

[MutFox]

Canucks-Gaf, I think the 4pm start is dumb as well. CBC couldn't just make it a 6pm PST game or something? I mean, unlike Victoria/Vancouver, the GTA doesn't shut down at 9pm.

Teams should play at the times of the home team,
that's just how it is, it's called home advantage.

The 7pm start should be in place anyways for HNIC as it's always 4pm start for the early game and 7pm for late game,
so both games can be enjoyed across the country.

how is that an example?

I don't whine when forced to watch games at different times

when the leafs were playing the flyers in the playoffs a long time ago we had games at noon, 3 pm etc

I didn't go on GAF and cry about it. I hauled my TV outside and made a party out of it.

what is crying going to change? Fuck... The leafs were in the west at one point and 2/3rds of the season was late night viewing

So you don't think during the regular season the Leafs get prefered treatment on the schedule?
Like honestly?

Also, were those home or away games against the flyers?

 

[Quick]

LOL Evander Kane just gave this smug-ass look at the camera.

 

[Sanjuro]

Fighting will be banned in the next 5-10 years. I doubt it will 'kill' the audience.

Canucks-Gaf, I think the 4pm start is dumb as well. CBC couldn't just make it a 6pm PST game or something? I mean, unlike Victoria/Vancouver, the GTA doesn't shut down at 9pm.

Define kill? It'll cause viewership to drop. Even if slightly, why would the NHL do something that is harmful for business?

 

[Levyne]

Go Hawks!

 

[Quick]

Scotiabank spared no expense whatsoever with those scarves (lol).

 

[Samyy]

I'm not really sure what Emery did to deserve a suspension. There has to be something in the rule book to define the infraction. He can get an instigator penalty and a game misconduct, but I don't think there's anything he did that justifies additional games. You can't suspend a guy just because you don't like what he did. Maybe the league will find something to make a point, but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets nothing.

I do think the refs should have stepped in when it got out of hand. There's the problem. But I didn't see anything considered a suspendable offence on Emery's part.

The two goalies fought. So what. Goalies have fought before. Holtby was smiling and laughing about it afterwards. But people are so grossly offended and disgusted about this horrible display? Good grief. It's not the crime of the century, it's hockey.

Its not hockey, that was disgusting. You can't even do that shit in sports where fighting is the primary activity.

KULEMIN OFF THE IR! Guess that pretty much confirms he is going to play tonight?

 

[DopeyFish]

Teams should play at the times of the home team,
that's just how it is, it's called home advantage.

The 7pm start should be in place anyways for HNIC as it's always 4pm start for the early game and 7pm for late game,
so both games can be enjoyed across the country.



So you don't think during the regular season the Leafs get prefered treatment on the schedule?
Like honestly?

Also, were those home or away games against the flyers?

just looking at the schedule now

its actually the CBC who set it so they could get Montreal on the double header

Calgary and Edmonton games start at 8 their time a lot for that very reason

and those games were away games... We are in same time zone as Philly but schedule (time) is usually set by networks (unless there's someone using the arena later)

 

[TemplaerDude]

how is that an example?

I don't whine when forced to watch games at different times

when the leafs were playing the flyers in the playoffs a long time ago we had games at noon, 3 pm etc

I didn't go on GAF and cry about it. I hauled my TV outside and made a party out of it.

what is crying going to change? Fuck... The leafs were in the west at one point and 2/3rds of the season was late night viewing

Noooot the point, but nice try.

 

[Marvie_3]

Fuck.

 

[Samyy]

Man now I really hope the Leafs stomp Vancouver, this complaining is getting annoying

 

[MutFox]

just looking at the schedule now

its actually the CBC who set it so they could get Montreal on the double header

and those games were away games... We are in same time zone as Philly but schedule (time) is usually set by networks (unless there's someone using the arena later)

The leafs do get prefered treatment on the schedule,
there's only a few games where the leafs HAVE to play at someone elses time.
What other sport do you know of where an away team constantly has this advantage?
I'd really like to know this actually, if anyone here on GAF knows...

So the Leafs had to play at an away teams desired time years ago...
Wow, must have been hard.

 

[Hunter S.]

Fighting will be banned in the next 5-10 years. I doubt it will 'kill' the audience.

Canucks-Gaf, I think the 4pm start is dumb as well. CBC couldn't just make it a 6pm PST game or something? I mean, unlike Victoria/Vancouver, the GTA doesn't shut down at 9pm.

Hockey fans love their fights and Canada's sports broadcasters say they'll continue to give them what they want.
According to a Toronto Star-Angus Reid online poll released today, 63 per cent of Canadians who described themselves as hockey fans who truly enjoy watching the game, oppose any ban on fighting.
The poll also showed that 61 per cent of all Canadians (hockey fans or not) want fisticuffs out of the game.
In addition, 62 per cent of hard-core fans believe fighting is a significant part of the game at the professional level.

This is a poll from 2009, but I am not convinced of your conclusion.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/2009/03/17/hockey_fans_love_fighting_survey_says.html

 

[Marvie_3]

Ex-Hawks bailing out the Hawks PK

 

[Levyne]

HAMMER

 

[Marvie_3]

Hammer time!

 

[Quick]

Hawks bandwagon is strong in Winnipeg.

 

[Coldnoodle]

Hawks bandwagon is strong in Winnipeg.

Toews is a Pegger.

 

[Unhandled Exception]

May not watch the game tonight but we still better win

 

[Quick]

Toews is a Pegger.

I know.

 

[NetMapel]

What is this brushing commercial I just saw on CBC..........

 

[bonesmccoy]

Define kill? It'll cause viewership to drop.

I seriously doubt it will make any difference.

Hunter, a couple other things from that survey that are worth noting:

While six in 10 Canadians overall want a ban on fighting,

And:

The majority of fans favoured harsher penalties for fighting, with 38 per cent agreeing with an automatic ejection. And even hard-core fans (60 per cent) said they favoured players being forced to keep their helmets on during fights.

Keep in mind this survey was done before Boogaard, Belak and Rypien died.

 

[Coldnoodle]

Just fine people for fighting.

 

[Acid08]

BOYLE IS BACK TONIGHT EAT SHIT LAPIERRE YOU CUNT

 

[Sanjuro]

I seriously doubt it will make any difference.

I would say you aren't very familiar with the primary NHL fanbase then.

 

[yyzjohn]

Teams should play at the times of the home team,
that's just how it is, it's called home advantage.

The 7pm start should be in place anyways for HNIC as it's always 4pm start for the early game and 7pm for late game,
so both games can be enjoyed across the country.



So you don't think during the regular season the Leafs get prefered treatment on the schedule?
Like honestly?

Also, were those home or away games against the flyers?

You realize money talks right? Having the Leafs play at 7pm means more viewers and more adveristing dollars for CBC. End of story.

 

[ZeroGravity]

NHL says they won't suspend Ray Emery, since there's nothing in the rulebook that calls for supplementary discipline for what he did.

 

[calder]

GAF was down just long enough for me to not even get a chance to post how, after the first, I had a pretty good feeling about how well the Jets were competing.

:|

 

[BigJonsson]

Nooo bozak