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NHL vs. NBA - which sport deserves to be cancelled?
- Thread starter Hollywood
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This is an unfair comparison though.Hollywood said:
Your baseball scenario reflects a real game scenario: batting against a pitcher.
Your hockey and basketball scenarios are not real game scenarios - they're 1 on 1 scenarios. Unless you're talking about a shootout in hockey, that kinda of thing just isn't going to happen. Go on the ice with 4 other guys against 5 NHLers and an NHL goalie and let's see how many goals you get
(same with basketball).Pochacco said:This is an unfair comparison though.
Your baseball scenario reflects a real game scenario: batting against a pitcher.
Your hockey and basketball scenarios are not real game scenarios - they're 1 on 1 scenarios. Unless you're talking about a shootout in hockey, that kinda of thing just isn't going to happen. Go on the ice with 4 other guys against 5 NHLers and an NHL goalie and let's see how many goals you get
I'm talking 1 on 1 in baseball too. Not get a hit with players out there on the field, just hitting the ball fair, PERIOD.
I don't know how you guys play the game but I'm exhausted after playing baseball.
I tend to play SS, 3B, LF, CF.
Maybe it's because I'll actually constantly run to put myself into proper defensive positioning during a play (CF backing up 2B, LF backing up/covering 3B and then covering home if the C has the ball and the pitcher is out of position, IF running to the outfield to cut off throws, etc.) and I try to catch every foul ball... In one bad inning I could be totally spent. Do I have to even mention how difficult it is to throw a hard and accurate throw? I'll routinely be seen sommersaulting over forwards while attempting a throw home. I have to ice my arms all the time and I've been playing ball all my life.
You have to be on your tippy toes while playing the infield as well and that doesn't come easy either.
I also swing the bat flippin hard. So it'll be like ten practice swings, then I get up to the plate and maybe swing 3 times per at bat (foul balls can wind you like you wouldn't believe) but as hard as I can. Then it's sprint up the base path and be aggressive and try to take an extra base. And then when I'm on a base I'm always pushing it in terms of taking a lead, trying to steal a base, bouncing, etc.
Basically I try to make plays happen and if you're doing that then you're getting your exercise while playing baseball.
But we all know that the game is really won at practice. And try to tell me that an hour in the cages, of fielding/shagging/ground balls, of conditioning, or weight training per day is nothing.
I won't compare it to basketball, hockey or especially football training but it's absolutely insulting to hear people dismiss the conditioning involved in baseball.
162 games a year.. and for non-pros it's more than that. Routinely playing 5-7 days in a row on top of practices and weight training and conditioning.. downright insulting.
I tend to play SS, 3B, LF, CF.
Maybe it's because I'll actually constantly run to put myself into proper defensive positioning during a play (CF backing up 2B, LF backing up/covering 3B and then covering home if the C has the ball and the pitcher is out of position, IF running to the outfield to cut off throws, etc.) and I try to catch every foul ball... In one bad inning I could be totally spent. Do I have to even mention how difficult it is to throw a hard and accurate throw? I'll routinely be seen sommersaulting over forwards while attempting a throw home. I have to ice my arms all the time and I've been playing ball all my life.
You have to be on your tippy toes while playing the infield as well and that doesn't come easy either.
I also swing the bat flippin hard. So it'll be like ten practice swings, then I get up to the plate and maybe swing 3 times per at bat (foul balls can wind you like you wouldn't believe) but as hard as I can. Then it's sprint up the base path and be aggressive and try to take an extra base. And then when I'm on a base I'm always pushing it in terms of taking a lead, trying to steal a base, bouncing, etc.
Basically I try to make plays happen and if you're doing that then you're getting your exercise while playing baseball.
But we all know that the game is really won at practice. And try to tell me that an hour in the cages, of fielding/shagging/ground balls, of conditioning, or weight training per day is nothing.
I won't compare it to basketball, hockey or especially football training but it's absolutely insulting to hear people dismiss the conditioning involved in baseball.
162 games a year.. and for non-pros it's more than that. Routinely playing 5-7 days in a row on top of practices and weight training and conditioning.. downright insulting.
I played baseball all my life and you are involved in every play,wether that involves backing someone up,being a cut off man for the outfielder,etc. I played 3rd plus I was a pitcher.I've played alot of sports in my life,and nothing was more tiring than trying to pitch a complete game on a 95+ degree day.
Not to mention being able to hit a ball takes more skill than anything in any other sport
But to say you do nothing but sit around and wait for your turn to bat is pure stupid,its like me saying all you do in Hockey is wait around for a fight to break out or some stupid shit like that.
Not to mention being able to hit a ball takes more skill than anything in any other sport
But to say you do nothing but sit around and wait for your turn to bat is pure stupid,its like me saying all you do in Hockey is wait around for a fight to break out or some stupid shit like that.
open_mouth_
insert_foot_
The NHL season is cancelled?? I hardly even noticed :lol :lol
If you want to base this on popularity, NBA wins by a landslide. Most NBA teams are making tons of $$$ and their values are going through the roof, while the opposite could be said for the NHL.
What a joke of a thread.
If you want to base this on popularity, NBA wins by a landslide. Most NBA teams are making tons of $$$ and their values are going through the roof, while the opposite could be said for the NHL.
What a joke of a thread.
How is Hockey more athletic? You SKATE around freaking ice. All you do is basically slide around. If you want an athletic sport that sort of resembles hockey then go watch lacross. Come on....
Wayne_Gretzky_Photo.jpg)
Look at the bodies lol....
In baseball you have to be ready to chase down balls traveling at high speeds and you can't depend on them to bounce of walls like in hockey. There are no second chances there.
Look at the bodies lol....
In baseball you have to be ready to chase down balls traveling at high speeds and you can't depend on them to bounce of walls like in hockey. There are no second chances there.
dem
Member
Kuroyume said:How is Hockey more athletic? You SKATE around freaking ice. All you do is basically slide around. If you want an athletic sport that sort of resembles hockey then go watch lacross. Come on....
Look at the bodies lol....
In baseball you have to be ready to chase down balls traveling at high speeds and you can't depend on them to bounce of walls like in hockey. There are no second chances there.
:lol :lol :lol
Youve never skated in your life.. have you?
Shoulda picked some pictures of your more successful players Kuroyume. Like
Babe "Whores? Beer? Yes please" Ruth
Moe "Chips n Gravy" Vaughn
Kirby "I Bought My Mistress A Vibrator For Christmas" Puckett
and we can't forget about David "I Wash Mahself Wit A Rag On A Stick" Wells
Hell, didn't this sexy beast win the Cy Young last year? Delicious! :lol
edit: and to say that hockey is just sliding around on ice shows that you've never done it. :lol :lol There's a reason why most shifts on the ice last 2 minutes max before you have to hit the bench - because it's physically impossible to do more.
Best-trained. Best shape. Best athletes.
HOCKEY
Babe "Whores? Beer? Yes please" Ruth
Moe "Chips n Gravy" Vaughn
Kirby "I Bought My Mistress A Vibrator For Christmas" Puckett
and we can't forget about David "I Wash Mahself Wit A Rag On A Stick" Wells
Hell, didn't this sexy beast win the Cy Young last year? Delicious! :lol
edit: and to say that hockey is just sliding around on ice shows that you've never done it. :lol :lol There's a reason why most shifts on the ice last 2 minutes max before you have to hit the bench - because it's physically impossible to do more.
Best-trained. Best shape. Best athletes.
HOCKEY
soundwave05
Member
If you take the attributes of "athleticism"
SPEED
STRENGTH
AGILTY
EXPLOSIVENESS
ENDURANCE
LEAPING ABILITY
PHYSICAL STATURE
I think basketball would probably win.
Basketball is probably the sport most driven by pure athleticism.
All sports though, baseball, hockey, football, basketball, etc. have their own nuances which are to be appreciated.
I've actually played in organized baseball, hockey, football, soccer, volleyball AND basketball and none of the sports are "easy" by any means.
They all have unique challenges.
SPEED
STRENGTH
AGILTY
EXPLOSIVENESS
ENDURANCE
LEAPING ABILITY
PHYSICAL STATURE
I think basketball would probably win.
Basketball is probably the sport most driven by pure athleticism.
All sports though, baseball, hockey, football, basketball, etc. have their own nuances which are to be appreciated.
I've actually played in organized baseball, hockey, football, soccer, volleyball AND basketball and none of the sports are "easy" by any means.
They all have unique challenges.
Well I've sort of skated twice in my life. I've been on the ice with skates but I never let go out of side because it was too slippery. The boots at the place I went were painful as hell too because they were made out of plastic.
Anyway all I'm saying is that is if you think about it running is more demanding than skating. All your muscles are used when you're running.
Think about it this way...
Ever seen the mighty ducks? The movie showed that girls can play hockey and look normal. Compare that to women's softball where females have to bulk up into almost manly body territory in order to be successful. The same applies to baseball in a man's world. You have to be powerful to play the sport because the sport is built around power and speed (sure fat ass Mo Fatso Vaughn was fat and quickness wasn't in his repertoire but he had power so that balanced it all out.)
I'm not saying hockey isn't demanding. I bet carrying all that equipment, fighting, and being slammed into glass is painful and stressful on the human body but baseball requires more (yeah lets not count pitchers here) athletic training. This argument is really stupid because we can't prove each other wrong either way so lets just leave it at that. Hockey is good, Basketball is good, Soccer is good, Baseball is betterD) but they're all good and that's all that matters.
Anyway all I'm saying is that is if you think about it running is more demanding than skating. All your muscles are used when you're running.
Think about it this way...
Ever seen the mighty ducks? The movie showed that girls can play hockey and look normal. Compare that to women's softball where females have to bulk up into almost manly body territory in order to be successful. The same applies to baseball in a man's world. You have to be powerful to play the sport because the sport is built around power and speed (sure fat ass Mo Fatso Vaughn was fat and quickness wasn't in his repertoire but he had power so that balanced it all out.)
I'm not saying hockey isn't demanding. I bet carrying all that equipment, fighting, and being slammed into glass is painful and stressful on the human body but baseball requires more (yeah lets not count pitchers here) athletic training. This argument is really stupid because we can't prove each other wrong either way so lets just leave it at that. Hockey is good, Basketball is good, Soccer is good, Baseball is better
D) but they're all good and that's all that matters.Kabuki Waq
Member
Kuroyume said:
:lol :lol :lol :lol
Dear god you are so ignorant.
Ever see rookie of the year?
anyways I have played both sports. Baseball has barely any Cardio involved thats a fact.
In baseball if you have reasonable arm strength your set.
Shinobi said:
agreed. Baseball is the most skill-based game. Anyone claiming otherwise (I.E. it requires a lot of effort) is kidding themselves. There's a reason that baseball players play a game every day of the week (with only 1 day off). Because they can. No other professional sport can say that.
Kabuki Waq
Member
Accurate Booger Flicking also takes an immense amount of skill.....doesnt mean i would make a sport out of it.
Kabuki Waq said:
how come every thread about every sport always comes down to two sides bitching at eachother: "baseball's a sport!", "baseball's not a sport!", etc etc. ad nauseum. I am able to predict with 100% accuracy that any person claiming that "Baseball isn't a sport" never played it at a competitive level (and no, your little league all-star team doesn't count). That's pretty much the nature of any sport.
Kabuki Waq
Member
There are sports like Hockey and Soccer and then there are sports like baseball, Golf and Bowling.
Wait have you played baseball at a competitve level? what other sports do you think david wells and babe ruth could have played professionally?
Wait have you played baseball at a competitve level? what other sports do you think david wells and babe ruth could have played professionally?
Nerevar said:
Heh, I'm always amused at dumb fucks who say auto racing isn't a sport, or race car drivers aren't athletes, even though they're driving two to three hours (at least) at ridiculous speeds with precision and facing up to 5 G's at certain corners inside vechiles that can be over 120 degrees while wearing a firesuit, overall and helmet, losing close to five pounds with a heartrate that can reach as much as 200 beats per minute. That doesn't even get into mental fatigue, or the fact that you could DIE at any given time. You don't need to be a brain surgeon to realize that drivers are incredibly fit, or that top level auto racing is incredibly draining.
And as Ramirez said, there's a ton of stupid in this thread...if any of these activites were easy to do, people wouldn't be getting paid millions to do it.
Mike Works
Member
Haha, what? Linemen are great when it comes to brute force, but you think they can run/skate as fast as players in the other big sports? Have you SEEN those guys pick up a fumble before?Ramirez said:
Mike Works
Member
hahaha, I forgot the topic was MLB vs people on this boardRamirez said:
Cricket is far more demanding than baseball.
Baseball requires as much athleticism as Curling, or Golf. Sure, there is some hard work and training put into these sports, but are nowhere near sports such as Hockey, Soccer, or Lacrosse.
Shinobi...the fact that you are interested in WRC while never doing it before can't be used as evidence against my theory. Let me ask you a question, did you fall in love with Rally racing while just flipping channels one day, and then seeing it, thinking it was the coolest thing you saw? There ARE a few open minded people like that, but most people aren't like that.
People who watch curling, bowling, etc. have some knowledge of the sport, and most likely have played it before. Now, I don't have any stats to back this up, it's all based on my observations.
Baseball requires as much athleticism as Curling, or Golf. Sure, there is some hard work and training put into these sports, but are nowhere near sports such as Hockey, Soccer, or Lacrosse.
Shinobi...the fact that you are interested in WRC while never doing it before can't be used as evidence against my theory. Let me ask you a question, did you fall in love with Rally racing while just flipping channels one day, and then seeing it, thinking it was the coolest thing you saw? There ARE a few open minded people like that, but most people aren't like that.
People who watch curling, bowling, etc. have some knowledge of the sport, and most likely have played it before. Now, I don't have any stats to back this up, it's all based on my observations.
Mike Works
Member
The part where you said they're not blazing fast because they're fat, but they're still fast for fat people? Yeah, that's great, that's a testiment to how they're more athletic than hockey players.Ramirez said:
I have a certain athletic respect for sumo wrestlers, but I'm not going to claim Yokozuna was more athletic than Terrel Owens.
Fight for Freeform said:
You have no stats to back your theory up (which is based on nothing but your observations), but you're telling me what I can and can't use as evidence, based on my own observations? Heh, that works.
I became a huge fan of soccer before I played it. Same with hockey. Same with football. Same with track and field. Unless I was born on another planet, it seems pretty obvious that quite a few people could easily take to a sport by simply viewing before playing it. Look at what's going on in poker...more people are playing that now because they're seeing how it's played on TV, not the other way round. Ali is the most popular athlete of all time...you think the millions of men and women that have followed him throughout the world have ever stepped into a ring before? Heh, come on.
That doesn't neccessarily make such people the majority mind you, but to dismiss the notion out of hand is a bit silly.
And for the record, I fell in love with WRC primarily because of Sega Rally. But I had no real opportunity to watch it until Speedvision was made available up here.
Because racing and hockey are two very different sports. Hockey, Soccer, Tennis, Basketball, Football, Baseball, Cricket, Rugby, Lacrosse, and Squash (to name a few) are competive sports that feature 2 dueling sides. It has nothing to do with your observations, and as I said in my earlier post, it's not impossible for a scenario to occur where someone sees a sport, and without prior knowledge or experience, fall in love with the sport. I'm just saying that this requires open-mindedness that most people don't have.
Racing is a form of competition that features MANY competitors. Plus, it requires skills that most people are familiar with...DRIVING. Now you say you don't drive, but I knew that you liked SEGA Rally
I'd argue that because you've had a chance to learn a bit about Rally racing, and experience it, you came to enjoy it and became open to watching it. That's my point, I never said that it's impossible to occur, but if I were in charge of marketing Hockey, I'd have to consider that most people aren't that open minded.
Your point about Poker ties into my point. Whether it's via playing it themselves, or learning it from TV, they are at least LEARNING the game and are inclined to play it. Key word, "understanding". They are, via TV, understanding the rules of poker, and how it can be fun.
There ARE millions of boxing fans, track and field fans, bobsledding fans, and most have a basic understanding of the rules. Sure, some don't. Some bobsledding fans love the speed of the sport, and don't really know what goes into turning and starting.
Heck, Calgarians jumped on the Flames bandwagon, and they don't know much about hockey (these guys boo a hand pass made by the opposition in thier own zone)...and so I know that people can get swept up into sports without really knowing them...but my point is that Americans don't know enough about hockey to begin with. We can't expect them to be caught up in hype (it's happened when Gretz was traded to LA) because I don't see any big things for the NHL soon.
Ok, I'm just rambling now...
Mike Works
Member
What are you going to do, tackle a dog :lolDMczaf said:
I remember that Page 2 on ESPN.com did a study to determine what the most difficult sport was last year. This was the ranking of the top 10 I believe:
Boxing
Ice hockey
Football
Basketball
Wrestling
Martial arts
Tennis
Gymnastics
Baseball
Soccer
Boxing was #1, and as you can see hockey was #2. I wish they still had the grid up that compared everything, but it's down for some reason. Here is what they judged it on:
Endurance: The ability to continue to perform a skill or action for long periods of time
Strength: The ability to produce force
Power: The ability to produce strength in the shortest possible time
Speed: The ability to move quickly
Agility: The ability to change direction quickly
Flexibility: The ability to stretch the joints across a large range of motion
Nerve: The ability to overcome fear
Durability: The ability to withstand physical punishment over a long period of time
Hand-eye coordination: The ability to react quickly to sensory perception
Analytic aptitude: The ability to evaluate and react appropriately to strategic situations
So that's what they think. My point in posting this? I dunno, just bored and wanted to continue this ridiculous debate going on here. For those of you talking about Baseball, I remember it was the top rated one for Hand-eye, but it was really low on a few of those categories. Hockey and boxing were pretty high on all of them but I really can't remember the rankings.
-Edit-
Ok good, someone below found the article. For some reason when I searched on the site the article was there but the grid wasn't up.
Boxing
Ice hockey
Football
Basketball
Wrestling
Martial arts
Tennis
Gymnastics
Baseball
Soccer
Boxing was #1, and as you can see hockey was #2. I wish they still had the grid up that compared everything, but it's down for some reason. Here is what they judged it on:
Endurance: The ability to continue to perform a skill or action for long periods of time
Strength: The ability to produce force
Power: The ability to produce strength in the shortest possible time
Speed: The ability to move quickly
Agility: The ability to change direction quickly
Flexibility: The ability to stretch the joints across a large range of motion
Nerve: The ability to overcome fear
Durability: The ability to withstand physical punishment over a long period of time
Hand-eye coordination: The ability to react quickly to sensory perception
Analytic aptitude: The ability to evaluate and react appropriately to strategic situations
So that's what they think. My point in posting this? I dunno, just bored and wanted to continue this ridiculous debate going on here. For those of you talking about Baseball, I remember it was the top rated one for Hand-eye, but it was really low on a few of those categories. Hockey and boxing were pretty high on all of them but I really can't remember the rankings.
-Edit-
Ok good, someone below found the article. For some reason when I searched on the site the article was there but the grid wasn't up.
Yeah, here's the link to that article. I thought about it more than a few times reading this thread I figure its mention means linkage is merited...
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/sportSkills
I figure its mention means linkage is merited...http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/sportSkills
Mike Works
Member
On one hand, that article lists hockey above all else, save for boxing.
On the other hand:
Badminton = 30
Swimming: Distance = 36
Track and Field: Sprints = 38
Weight-Lifting = 44
Swimming: Sprints = 45
On the other hand:
Badminton = 30
Swimming: Distance = 36
Track and Field: Sprints = 38
Weight-Lifting = 44
Swimming: Sprints = 45
Fight for Freeform said:Heck, Calgarians jumped on the Flames bandwagon, and they don't know much about hockey (these guys boo a hand pass made by the opposition in thier own zone)...and so I know that people can get swept up into sports without really knowing them...but my point is that Americans don't know enough about hockey to begin with. We can't expect them to be caught up in hype (it's happened when Gretz was traded to LA) because I don't see any big things for the NHL soon.
Ok, I'm just rambling now...
Which wouldn't be a bad thing if it made any sense. :lol Just kidding.
Some sports just aren't going to be big in some regions, markets, countries, no matter what. Doesn't matter how easy or simple it is to understand. Some sports simply won't catch on. That's basically my point. I'm not convinced that a marketing machine that took the best people, tools and money from the NFL, NBA and NASCAR could make the NHL more then a regional sport in the US. Unless they can get a Michael Jordan-type that completely changes the game. Sad thing is they had two of those in the last twenty years, and didn't do much with either of them.
As for that list, putting auto racing at 32 means it has all the legitimacy of the Iraqi war.
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