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[GrotesqueBeauty]

Finally polished off my NiGHTS review just now.

http://www.tssznews.com/2012/10/12/review-nights-xbox-live-arcade/

The comparison video is linked in there, but if you're too lazy to skim the article for it, here's just the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTqxDugHe_s

Nice review, but having played both versions extensively since the HD version released (partly to suss out the validity of people's conclusions in this thread) I still think the control issues, although present, are overplayed. I understand the purist bent given the nature of the game, but even so it's a bit discouraging to see that put at the forefront of the review with hyperbolic phrases like "NiGHTS HD should control exactly like it did back on the Sega Saturn – but nothing could be further from the truth" and "It completely destroys the game’s sense of fluidity". Sorry, even as an ardent NiGHTS fan I've got to call bullshit on that. In regards to the controls matching, it could certainly be a lot further from the truth. The controls could've distracted to the point where the game game wasn't playable, but as vets like myself and newcomers without the old game as a point of reference have both noted, the game is still very playable, and, wait for it... enjoyable.

The fact is that at full speed, which is how NiGHTS is generally intended to be played, the admittedly less than perfect controls are not really that noticeable. Would I like to see a patch restoring the smoother transitions of the original? Of course. But when you're rushing along linking combos the core gameplay is probably 90% similar to the original experience. It's only in a handful of specific contexts that the "snapping" gets in the way. To be fair, that last 10% matters, but it's not something that fundamentally overwhelms everything else the port does well.

I also feel like in your video (and another one I've watched, actually) the apparent rigidity of the HD controls is aided along by almost seeking to make the flight path as awkward as possible. For example, in your vid you're using a more fluid motion following the analog gate on the Saturn pad, and not following the same full range of motion on the 360 pad- instead doing something akin to adjusting your thumb on each rotation. Not sure if this has to do with the ergonomics of the controller, but it's visible in the side by side shot.

Anyway, nice job overall, even if I think you might have weighted the control issues a bit heavily. I'm mostly with you on the other stuff, and appreciate your thoroughness pointing out some of the adjustments in the visuals and audio. My final take away is that although the port has some disappointments (which I hope a patch will ultimately remedy), it's still a solid, unique gaming experience on its own merits, and the result could have been far worse. And because Sega priced it fairly rather than doing a Capcom style gouge I would recommend it to anyone but the purist.

 

[Mdk7]

Man, I love NiGHTS. It's so much fun! I'm currently working on my last Achievement: A ranking every stage. Three more to go It's really been a blast.

THIS.
It's seriously such a beautiful game... even nowadays.

 

[Shiloa]

Gah! I thought I was just being sucky with my inability to do the panel bit properly - I hadn't realised it had changed. That actually annoys me more than the stiff controls.

 

[Koshiro]

Finally polished off my NiGHTS review just now.

http://www.tssznews.com/2012/10/12/review-nights-xbox-live-arcade/

The comparison video is linked in there, but if you're too lazy to skim the article for it, here's just the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTqxDugHe_s

Bravo for that comparison video - you outlined exactly the issues I had with the game, really glad to see someone visibly demonstrate it. Really breaks the game for me - the whole game was about smooth analogue control so you could perform varying sizes of loops and maintain accurate control over your direction for chaining.

 

[Fabrik]

I played the demo a couple of nights ago, and I didn't know what to do. I know you're supposed to fly through rings and making combos but other than that I was lost. How can you change plane and go in the background? Once your timer is over, you go back to the on-foot characters and the controls there are awful. Very archaic. The graphics are ok for an early 3D game though. I don't see the point of this game. What is the challenge?

 

[Mike M]

I played the demo a couple of nights ago, and I didn't know what to do. I know you're supposed to fly through rings and making combos but other than that I was lost. How can you change plane and go in the background? Once your timer is over, you go back to the on-foot characters and the controls there are awful. Very archaic. The graphics are ok for an early 3D game though. I don't see the point of this game. What is the challenge?

It's a score attack game, the challenge is racking up a high enough score by earning bonus time on a course as quickly as possible, chain as many high-scoring links as you can doing as many laps as possible before dashing back to the Ideya Palace before time runs out to start the next course.

 

[flattie]

I played the demo a couple of nights ago, and I didn't know what to do. I know you're supposed to fly through rings and making combos but other than that I was lost. How can you change plane and go in the background? Once your timer is over, you go back to the on-foot characters and the controls there are awful. Very archaic. The graphics are ok for an early 3D game though. I don't see the point of this game. What is the challenge?

You need to collect 20 blue orbs and enter the large orb to break it, then return to the start point. Once done the map will alter for the next stage and some of the areas you could not reach before will be brought into play. Same tactics to progress as last one. After the 4 sub stages are done, you fight the boss. Then you've finished that world.

There's loads more to it in order to rack up the high scores, but that's the basic premise.

 

[brumx]

Most people in the Saturn days just replayed the Xmas NiGHTS demo since it was basically the full game lol.

 

[Krelian]

I played the demo a couple of nights ago, and I didn't know what to do. I know you're supposed to fly through rings and making combos but other than that I was lost. How can you change plane and go in the background? Once your timer is over, you go back to the on-foot characters and the controls there are awful. Very archaic. The graphics are ok for an early 3D game though. I don't see the point of this game. What is the challenge?

Do what the other guys said. Also, you want to turn in the 20 orbs as quickly as possible and use the remaining time to increase your score. Only return to the palace when your time runs out.

I've completed everything now. It's been as fun as it was back in the Saturn days. I'm a little sad now that there's nothing else quite like it.

 

[Mike M]

Most people in the Saturn days just replayed the Xmas NiGHTS demo since it was basically the full game lol.

...

What?

 

[cajunator]

I played the demo a couple of nights ago, and I didn't know what to do. I know you're supposed to fly through rings and making combos but other than that I was lost. How can you change plane and go in the background? Once your timer is over, you go back to the on-foot characters and the controls there are awful. Very archaic. The graphics are ok for an early 3D game though. I don't see the point of this game. What is the challenge?

Think of it in terms of being an arcade game. The sort of people who enjoy this game tend to like shmups and other "quick play" games of the sort where the depth of gameplay lies in scoring a high amount of points. If you are looking for a traditional length game or normal types of gameplay, look elsewhere. This game is about timing, mastery of controls, path planning, and strategy. All skills which I personally lack
Furthermore, NiGHTS was designed back when 3D was still a gaming novelty and not fully developed. It is "2.5 D gaming" where for the most part you are confined to a single plane, but given short durations of 3D plane movement. To get to the background you have to follow specific paths that you find. This game was designed to give the sensation of flying where previously there wasnt much of one. In todays games where you can fly anywhere on a fully realized 3D world, NiGHTS is not impressive at all and some of the magic has been lost forever. Back then, it was a revelation.

 

[Stephen Stills]

Playing this on the 360 is my first real experience with NiGHTS. I've played it before but I never owned a copy back in the day. So I'm not being nostalgic when I say that this is one of the best goddamn games I've ever played.

Shame so many (pig ignorant) reviewers seem content to quickly judge it and dismiss it before really getting into it, but for anyone on the fence about getting this I stroingly recommend it. It does take time to get into it and understand it (I was completely lost at first) but IMO once you know what you're doing the hype is justified, it really is a special one of a kind game.

 

[Hot Coldman]

DAT SLAM DUNK

Finished the game. By which I mean, I'll prolly go back and play Christmas NiGHTS and try and A rank everything yet, but I've gotten the gist of the game. I like it a lot. Solid 4/5.

But fuck that ending song.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

I'm finding A rank's to be very hard because I'm fighting the controls so much that I'm missing too many links and orbs.

Still, it's a great game. Love the graphics of the HD version.

 

[Stephen Stills]

But fuck that ending song.

How dare you.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Is it the adult or kids version in the credits?

 

[Roto13]

Is it the adult or kids version in the credits?

Kids. The infinitely better a capella version is after Christmas Nights.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Kids. The infinitely better a capella version is after Christmas Nights.

Isn't it the adults version when you get an all-A clear?

 

[Roto13]

Isn't it the adults version when you get an all-A clear?

Possibly. I dunno.

 

[Draikin 2]

Isn't it the adults version when you get an all-A clear?

Indeed it is.

I got all the achievements now and I think I've unlocked everything there is to unlock. It's still a fantastic game and I hope everyone gives it a chance.

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

Nice review, but having played both versions extensively since the HD version released (partly to suss out the validity of people's conclusions in this thread) I still think the control issues, although present, are overplayed. I understand the purist bent given the nature of the game, but even so it's a bit discouraging to see that put at the forefront of the review with hyperbolic phrases like "NiGHTS HD should control exactly like it did back on the Sega Saturn – but nothing could be further from the truth" and "It completely destroys the game’s sense of fluidity". Sorry, even as an ardent NiGHTS fan I've got to call bullshit on that. In regards to the controls matching, it could certainly be a lot further from the truth. The controls could've distracted to the point where the game game wasn't playable, but as vets like myself and newcomers without the old game as a point of reference have both noted, the game is still very playable, and, wait for it... enjoyable.

The fact is that at full speed, which is how NiGHTS is generally intended to be played, the admittedly less than perfect controls are not really that noticeable. Would I like to see a patch restoring the smoother transitions of the original? Of course. But when you're rushing along linking combos the core gameplay is probably 90% similar to the original experience. It's only in a handful of specific contexts that the "snapping" gets in the way. To be fair, that last 10% matters, but it's not something that fundamentally overwhelms everything else the port does well.

I also feel like in your video (and another one I've watched, actually) the apparent rigidity of the HD controls is aided along by almost seeking to make the flight path as awkward as possible. For example, in your vid you're using a more fluid motion following the analog gate on the Saturn pad, and not following the same full range of motion on the 360 pad- instead doing something akin to adjusting your thumb on each rotation. Not sure if this has to do with the ergonomics of the controller, but it's visible in the side by side shot.

Anyway, nice job overall, even if I think you might have weighted the control issues a bit heavily. I'm mostly with you on the other stuff, and appreciate your thoroughness pointing out some of the adjustments in the visuals and audio. My final take away is that although the port has some disappointments (which I hope a patch will ultimately remedy), it's still a solid, unique gaming experience on its own merits, and the result could have been far worse. And because Sega priced it fairly rather than doing a Capcom style gouge I would recommend it to anyone but the purist.

I've also been of the same opinion the whole time. While I'd also be totally stoked for a control patch it's really not as bad as some here are working it up to be. This is also coming from a NiGHTS fanatic who's had this game since its original release on the Saturn. Even as the game currently stands, it still as unique and classy as its ever been.

 

[danwarb]

Yeah I'd still recommend this, while hoping for an update to smooth out the controls.

I've got Mepians singing the ending song in Nightopian Collection. Happiness is maxed because there's only 3 of them on Frozen Bell. Not sure what makes them happy or sad.

 

[Krelian]

I'm finding A rank's to be very hard because I'm fighting the controls so much that I'm missing too many links and orbs.

Still, it's a great game. Love the graphics of the HD version.

I do think it was somewhat easier in the Saturn version, but it's doable with a little practice. The hardest for me was Stick Canyon and Mystic Forest. No matter how hard I tried in Mystic Forst, I'd only get a B for two of the routes. It was still enough for an A overall ranking.

 

[MarkusRJR]

I'm not having any fun with this game. The controls are kinda clunky and the camera keeps giving me weird angles. I'm going to sound insane but I found the flying levels in the Wii NiGHTS to be way more fun. Maybe it's just my memory playing tricks on me and I'm not remembering the Wii NiGHTS correctly.

 

[danwarb]

I'm not having any fun with this game. The controls are kinda clunky and the camera keeps giving me weird angles. I'm going to sound insane but I found the flying levels in the Wii NiGHTS to be way more fun. Maybe it's just my memory playing tricks on me and I'm not remembering the Wii NiGHTS correctly.

The clunky controls are unique to this HD version. Sega product support staff are telling people it's being looking at.

You can't see too far ahead on a track, but once you've done a few laps you get a feel for the layout and it becomes about sustaining links and completing as many laps as possible before the timer runs out. This guy has some incredible high scores on the Saturn game and a few tutorial/tip videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/NiGHTScharlie

 

[ghibli99]

As a huge fan of the original (A-ranked everything), I'm kind of underwhelmed this time. Music is still amazing and the art direction is terrific, but it just looks really old, and I wish it had a better framerate (playing it on 360). Feels like a slightly cleaned up PS2 game, which it is right? These Saturn updates have been done much better in the past.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

As a huge fan of the original (A-ranked everything), I'm kind of underwhelmed this time. Music is still amazing and the art direction is terrific, but it just looks really old, and I wish it had a better framerate (playing it on 360). Feels like a slightly cleaned up PS2 game, which it is right? These Saturn updates have been done much better in the past.

I find the game looks slightly better in Saturn Mode. I think they redid a lot of the animation for Brand New Dream, and it looks very stiff and weird - and if they didn't redo the animation, it's easier to forgive with more simplistic polygons.

 

[Draikin 2]

As a huge fan of the original (A-ranked everything), I'm kind of underwhelmed this time. Music is still amazing and the art direction is terrific, but it just looks really old, and I wish it had a better framerate (playing it on 360). Feels like a slightly cleaned up PS2 game, which it is right? These Saturn updates have been done much better in the past.

I'm a bit surprised that some people find the graphics to look old. Even though some low-res content remains, the game received a considerable overhaul compared to the original. Obviously it's not going to rival new releases, but this is far more than a simple HD update of the Saturn version. The framerate seems pretty solid at 30fps as well. I can't really think of any Saturn game that received a better graphical upgrade than this version of NiGHTS.

 

[Y2Kev]

Whoever composed soft/suburban museum is a god

 

[Meicyn]

It's Tomoko Sasaki. She's seriously underrated as a composer. She did most of NiGHTS' music as well as Ristar, another great game.

 

[Y2Kev]

Man, I'm so glad I bought this even after the demo disappointed with the shit controls. I'm used to them now and I'm not a high enough level player to be bothered often. THIS GAME ROCKS OH MY GOD ITS CHRISTMAS 1996 IN MY ROOM AGAIN AND EVERYONE IS WONDERFUL

The sound effect after you bring the orbs back to the temple thing is great. The little affirmative do-dooo that plays. OMG THIS GAME

Comparing Saturn Nights to New Nights looks like they did quite a bit of reworking.

 

[thirty]

Whoever composed soft/suburban museum is a god

And the fact that there's like 15 remixes of each song is amazing

 

[entremet]

Whoever composed soft/suburban museum is a god

Yep. Bought the soundtrack ages ago cause of that song.

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

Whoever composed soft/suburban museum is a god

This man knows god tier music when he hears it. This song has been my go to happy song ever since I could hook up my pc to my Saturn and record the music box in the Christmas Nights Version. Oh man all the subtle remixes depending on the condition of the Pians is just mind-blowing!

Here's a decent remix from OC-Remix if you haven't already got it by now... And here's the standard mix... nights into dreams soft museum music

That Saturn music synth was HOT when used right!

 

[TheMan]

christ, this game has not aged that well. I never played the original for more than a few minutes at a time so maybe i just don't "get it", but goddamn am i glad i didn't blindly buy this.

 

[btrboyev]

I'm a bit surprised that some people find the graphics to look old. Even though some low-res content remains, the game received a considerable overhaul compared to the original. Obviously it's not going to rival new releases, but this is far more than a simple HD update of the Saturn version. The framerate seems pretty solid at 30fps as well. I can't really think of any Saturn game that received a better graphical upgrade than this version of NiGHTS.

I don't know, as weird as it sounds, the hd version is missing some unique lighting that was in the Saturn version which hurts it.

 

[encephalon]

Considering the complaints over controls, does anyone know how the PS2 ver. compares to the HD ver?

 

[Berordn]

Considering the complaints over controls, does anyone know how the PS2 ver. compares to the HD ver?

It's basically the same as this release, except with true analogue controls and obviously lower res graphics, though they're clearly the base for this version. The controls are still off compared to the Saturn version, and there's a few other changes that you'd probably only notice if you played the original religiously.

 

[Krelian]

Whoever composed soft/suburban museum is a god

My favorite song as well. Here's an over 9 minute version on Youtube.

 

[Eusis]

christ, this game has not aged that well. I never played the original for more than a few minutes at a time so maybe i just don't "get it", but goddamn am i glad i didn't blindly buy this.

Maybe this is proof that the control issues bug even those that didn't play it originally? Because I tend to feel one of the strongest ways for a game to age is by having controls that feel too clunky (although come to think of a lot of modern 3D games are actually clunkier to move in than some from a generation or occasionally TWO ago), and the large dead zone for the cardinal directions (were there even dead zones on the Saturn version?) do make it feel way stiffer than it should be.

 

[Mike M]

The on-foot portions have REALLY not aged well, they're pretty god awful by modern standards. Fortunately, if you're playing it right that's only 30 seconds of a level at most.

The flying portions absolutely stand up well, though obviously they'd be better with the original controls.

 

[Mdk7]

The on-foot portions have REALLY not aged well, they're pretty god awful by modern standards. Fortunately, if you're playing it right that's only 30 seconds of a level at most.

The flying portions absolutely stand up well, though obviously they'd be better with the original controls.

...you mean like 3 seconds at most.

 

[danwarb]

I'll jump around for a bit to collects a few blue chips and maybe hatch some eggs.

 

[Y2Kev]

I never used to do that, but does it hurt your score to start as NiGHTS with blue orbs already banked?

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I never used to do that, but does it hurt your score to start as NiGHTS with blue orbs already banked?

Depends. While on foot, you can get enough blue orbs to grab the gem and start on the second "track", which DOES hurt your score.

But if you just grab the blue orbs, head back and turn in to NiGHTS, I'd say that helps your score because it gives you more time in the 2x scoring mode after grabbing the gem.

 

[danwarb]

I think you lose time bonus on collecting the orb, but you get it out of the way quicker, more bonus time.

 

[Y2Kev]

Yeah, I figured that, but it looked like the Bonus Time Begin ! (yay engrish) bonus was smaller than when I collected all the orbs as nights. But maybe that was imagined.

edit: Thanks, danwarb. That's what I thought. So you can easily make it up in bonus time but you do lose out a bit in the original score addition.

 

[DeVeAn]

The music changed in my game any way to get the original music to play again?

 

[scitek]

The on-foot portions have REALLY not aged well, they're pretty god awful by modern standards. Fortunately, if you're playing it right that's only 30 seconds of a level at most.

Isn't the entire point of the on-foot sections that they're shitty to play? I thought they were supposed to make you want to avoid them.

 

[uncledonnie]

Love this game so much, even with the control changes. Playing through it again made me realize how great a version of Nights for the 3DS could be.