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[xochipiltontli]

WiiU failure was not about confused messaging, lets face it, it was a toaster and did not run the major mass market games

This is incredibly wrong. Yes its power kept it from running third party games eventually, but it had a year of parity with the PS3/360 before the PS4/XBO came out and still didn't get things like GTAV or MGSV. Much the Wii U's failure almost certainly does come from confused messaging as well as just being a flawed concept to begin with. When it was first shown off to the mainstream on Jimmy Fallon, not even the host of the show could tell whether or not it was an add on for the original Wii, and that's a burden it carried for most of its life.

 

[mocolostrocolos]

That's not "gaming VR" tho, it could make that kind of 360° view I guess, but I don't see the point.

Me neither, I don't think Switch needs to have VR.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I think if they announced a hypothetical Elder Scrolls 6 that would be bigger!

ES6 will obviously be a big deal whenever it is announced. But I think Rockstar is on another level right now. They're coming off a game that's sold 70m units (and still going up rather rapidly) and this will be their first real current-gen title. It's going to be massive whenever it hits. That's why Nintendo really doesn't want to be left out of the conversation when people are discussing it. That's been a big issue they've had over the past few generations. A massive multiplatform game is released and people are talking about it on a Playstation platform or a Xbox platform, but nothing about a Nintendo platform because it's simply not on it.

The biggest fish is not necessarily the biggest AAA games. The games that I consider the biggest fish would be the ones that sell to the mass market, mainly the annual sports games like FIFA and Madden, the popular shooters like CoD, and those that sell well regardless of time like Minecraft and GTA. The crowd for the RDR2 and Andromeda is already on the current platforms, so even if they are on the Switch they would be a hard sell. But for the mass market games, they can be widespread and there is still untapped opportunity there for both Nintendo and the Western 3rd party.

But i'd say most of those are games expected. The Wii U even had Madden, CoD, Minecraft, and FIFA. GTA is obviously a huge deal, but GTAVI isn't going to be announced any time soon. That's why a same day as other platforms release of Andromeda would be a bigger deal. It's obviously unlikely to sell as much as those games, but it would show that EA is actually committed to the platform. And in Activision's case, an announcement for the next Destiny would be a bigger deal than CoD. That's obviously unlikely to happen at this event as it's a more likely Sony E3 conference announcement, so that's one we'd have to wait on.

What if? What if, From is bringing a new IP to Switch? That might be the kicker it needs. Just daydreaming I know, but geez.

From has a hardcore following, but so does Platinum and the Wii U had multiple Platinum exclusives including the sequel to the game they're most known for (Bayonetta).

 

[Dark Cloud]

Why would anybody tell obe1 anything? Dude is so annoying and everybody today needs to be an insider so they can get views, subscribers and make themselves feel more important.

 

[Tregard]

If it can run stuff like Job Simulator and Keep Talking & Nobody Explodes, I'll be happy with that.

Could see them reimagining something like Ice Climbers or Balloon Fighter as a VR game

 

[Okami Haundo]

I don't think I've seen a VR game that isn't demanding. Some of them already almost looks like PS2 games on an OG PS4. I doubt anyone will bother making ultra-light VR games solely for the Switch.

Unless it's something like Samsung Gear VR. But it has little point for us.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head without realizing it. Everyone on here is acting like Nintendo is somehow going to strive for PSVR-level VR games with the Switch. The more likely scenario is that we get some cheap VR experiences like you get with Gear VR and Google Cardboard just because they "could". It won't redefine VR, but stuff like that gets the idea out to the masses in an affordable way. The form of VR that "has little point for us" is going to be the main way that millions of people experience it until stuff like PSVR, Oculus, and Vive are more reasonably priced.

 

[DrROBschiz]

This is incredibly wrong. Yes its power kept it from running third party games eventually, but it had a year of parity with the PS3/360 before the PS4/XBO came out and still didn't get things like GTAV or MGSV. Much the Wii U's failure almost certainly does come from confused messaging as well as just being a flawed concept to begin with. When it was first shown off to the mainstream on Jimmy Fallon, not even the host of the show could tell whether or not it was an add on for the original Wii, and that's a burden it carried for most of its life.

It was also

- Expensive

- Compromised in various ways (out of box to playtime was a chore)

- Had various Software droughts

- Tablet idea... was already being done better(capacitive tablets with account systems and great features and aps), cheaper, and marketed clearly

 

[mocolostrocolos]

Around 50% of modern game engine frame time goes to running compute shaders (lighting, post processing, AA, AO, reflections, etc). Maxwell's tiled rasterizer has zero impact on compute shaders. 25.6 GB/s is pretty low as everybody knows that 68 GB/s of Xbox One isn't that great either. ESRAM is needed to reach good performance. But I am talking about the POV of down porting current gen games to Switch. Switch certainly fares well against last gen consoles, and Maxwell's tiled rasterizer would certainly help older pixel + vertex shader based renderers. Too bad last gen consoles already got their last big AAA releases year ago. Easy ports between Xbox 360 and Switch are not available anymore. Xbox One is a significantly faster hardware. Straightforward code port is not possible. Content also needs to be simplified.

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/nintendo-switch-speculation-discussion.59709/page-58#post-1959110

 

[Neoxon]

Don't care much about VR. Much more important that it bags western support like Mass Effect, Overwatch and Red Dead 2.

At this point, I doubt that it will. Nintendo doesn't exactly have the best track record when it comes to western third party support. And Overwatch aside, I doubt that said games would do good enough on the Switch sales-wise to justify supporting it further.

 

[DrROBschiz]

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/nintendo-switch-speculation-discussion.59709/page-58#post-1959110

Good thing Im not buying the Switch for 3rd party Assassins Creed ports then?


FOr those of you that want that to be a thing.... why?

 

[spectator]

First of all, why do you say that?

I've seen the size of the thing in Nintendo's commercial.

 

[Skittzo0413]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head without realizing it. Everyone on here is acting like Nintendo is somehow going to strive for PSVR-level VR games with the Switch. The more likely scenario is that we get some cheap VR experiences like you get with Gear VR and Google Cardboard just because they "could". It won't redefine VR, but stuff like that gets the idea out to the masses in an affordable way. The form of VR that "has little point for us" is going to be the main way that millions of people experience it until stuff like PSVR, Oculus, and Vive are more reasonably priced.

Yup, this is exactly right.

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/nintendo-switch-speculation-discussion.59709/page-58#post-1959110

We don't know if it is 25GB/s. It's more likely to be 50GB/s knowing Nintendo likes to prioritize RAM speeds. Remember this is going to be a custom SoC and so far no one knows in what way it has been customized. DF said it likely includes some Pascal features which might include the RAM bus width.

I've seen the size of the thing in Nintendo's commercial.

They seem to think it works in the patent.

 

[Mpl90]

If we really want to consider Obe1's things (I can't call them videos, look at the random stuff going on in the foreground and background, WHY :lol ), the next day of Switchmas will be about the VR title he's aware it's coming to Switch.

 

[mocolostrocolos]

We don't know if it is 25GB/s. It's more likely to be 50GB/s knowing Nintendo likes to prioritize RAM speeds. Remember this is going to be a custom SoC and so far no one knows in what way it has been customized. DF said it likely includes some Pascal features which might include the RAM bus width.

Sebbbi is a verified Ubisoft developer. He must know something.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Good thing Im not buying the Switch for 3rd party Assassins Creed ports then?


FOr those of you that want that to be a thing.... why?

I want as many multiplats on this thing as possible for two reasons:

1) So that more people buy it and it gets even better support in the future, both with first and third party games.

2) So that I can play the games I like (Dark Souls 3 or Elder Scrolls 6 for instance) on a portable device which is so, so, so much more attractive to me than playing on a TV or even my PC.

Sebbbi is a verified Ubisoft developer. He must know something.

What he's saying would seem to run counter to pretty much everything else we've heard about development on Switch though. He likely knows what he's talking about when it comes to tech but that doesn't mean he knows what the final configuration of the Switch SoC is. He's probably working under the assumption that the specs from the Jetson TX1 thread are accurate for the final hardware, which DF essentially said is not the case.

 

[Neoxon]

I mean, the only way I can see VR working on the Switch is if said VR headset has its own guts & 1080p+ screen, with the Switch itself serving as the main computing part of the VR headset.

 

[DrROBschiz]

I want as many multiplats on this thing as possible for two reasons:

1) So that more people buy it and it gets even better support in the future, both with first and third party games.

2) So that I can play the games I like (Dark Souls 3 or Elder Scrolls 6 for instance) on a portable device which is so, so, so much more attractive to me than playing on a TV or even my PC.

Itll happen

People need to buy a bunch of them (which can happen. Brand power, new toy, clear marketing, cheap price, familiar hardware) and then buy a bunch of games

and it needs to be easy


As far as system power... as long as the tools are easy to use Devs will take the time to "make it work" or at the very least build new games

They really dont have to do much. Its mass market architecture that many companies likely already build games for (many AAA devs have investment in mobile platforms and tablets)

We will have to wait and see but I remain very optimistic about the Switch

 

[random25]

But i'd say most of those are games expected. The Wii U even had Madden, CoD, Minecraft, and FIFA. GTA is obviously a huge deal, but GTAVI isn't going to be announced any time soon. That's why a same day as other platforms release of Andromeda would be a bigger deal. It's obviously unlikely to sell as much as those games, but it would show that EA is actually committed to the platform. And in Activision's case, an announcement for the next Destiny would be a bigger deal than CoD. That's obviously unlikely to happen at this event as it's a more likely Sony E3 conference announcement, so that's one we'd have to wait on.

But western AAA nowadays is risk averse. They will only put the biggest budget games on platforms that guarantee to provide millions of software sales for those types of games. As much as we would like to blame Nintendo over this scenario, the usual audience that buys Nintendo consoles just don't buy those games en masse. So while games like Andromeda and RDR2 coming to Switch will always be a good thing, it's not a true indicator of strong 3rd party support because those games will come usually when the install base is big and established, hardware power notwithstanding.

While Wii U got the mass market games early in its life, the brand is already tarnished that it never got the yearly iterations the following year. And Minecraft came too late, though it still sold well in Japan at least. If the Switch opened strong and the said games did decent numbers, yearly installments will still come to the platform. It did happen with the Wii in the case of sports games even if power disparity from PS360 was huge, so why not with the Switch if it does well in its launch year?

 

[Yado]

OBE1s video is up. Says Switch VR is real and devs are working on games right now.

This guy is so annoying.

https://youtu.be/AzE4ZATggmU

Why is he acting like this? Does it really attract subscribers?

 

[mocolostrocolos]

What he's saying would seem to run counter to pretty much everything else we've heard about development on Switch though. He likely knows what he's talking about when it comes to tech but that doesn't mean he knows what the final configuration of the Switch SoC is. He's probably working under the assumption that the specs from the Jetson TX1 thread are accurate for the final hardware, which DF essentially said is not the case.

Could be, but my point is simple: don't get your hopes too high.

 

[Mpl90]

Sebbbi is a verified Ubisoft developer. He must know something.

Looking a bit back, one of his other posts from the same thread

https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1958961/

16 MB is enough for 720p forward rendering with no MSAA. 720P RGBA16f color buffer + 32b Z buffer = 11 MB. But the same cache is also used for texture sampling and geometry (vertex and index buffer loads). 16 MB cache will trash for sure. 32 MB cache would be much better. Intel chose 64 MB and 128 MB for their Crystalwell GT4e cache sizes. Intel integrated chips are roughly in the same ballpark in performance and are mostly used to play games at 720p. So the comparison is relevant.

16 MB cache would take less die space than Xbox One's 32 MB ESRAM scratchpad, but not significantly so, as cache logic and tags take plenty of space. It would also be somewhat slower (latency) than current < 2 MB GPU L2 caches. Would likely affect performance a bit (at least global atomics). Would still be a huge perf boost assuming only 25.6 GB/s memory bandwidth.

If he goes with assuming the memory bandwidth is 25.6 GB/s and discussing the possibility of 16MB cache used with another user, I don't know if he's completely aware of Switch's components.

 

[DrROBschiz]

But western AAA nowadays is risk averse. They will only put the biggest budget games on platforms that guarantee to provide millions of software sales for those types of games. As much as we would like to blame Nintendo over this scenario, the usual audience that buys Nintendo consoles just don't buy those games en masse. So while games like Andromeda and RDR2 coming to Switch will always be a good thing, it's not a true indicator of strong 3rd party support because those games will come usually when the install base is big and established, hardware power notwithstanding.

While Wii U got the mass market games early in its life, the brand is already tarnished that it never got the yearly iterations the following year. And Minecraft came too late, though it still sold well in Japan at least. If the Switch opened strong and the said games did decent numbers, yearly installments will still come to the platform. It did happen with the Wii in the case of sports games even if power disparity from PS360 was huge, so why not with the Switch if it does well in its launch year?

Japanese AAA support seems like a no brainers since all the big guys overseas already make games for everything at various budgets

I cant imagine there wont at the very least be an effort from Western AA where it makes sense

I would temper your expectations. Since this is a hybrid thats more Mobile leaning you would be more likely to see games that easily scale or are already mass ported to various hardware specs (most multiplats)

 

[Skittzo0413]

Could be, but my point is simple: don't get your hopes too high.

Fair enough, but reports from insiders have pretty clearly indicated that porting won't be that big of an issue from a tech perspective. Publishers will decide what they think is worth porting based on RoI, and that's where the big issue for Nintendo has always been in my opinion.

 

[Aostia]

Don't care much about VR. Much more important that it bags western support like Mass Effect, Overwatch and Red Dead 2.

It won't like...officially it won't

 

[NateDrake]

I haven't heard VR from any contacts at this point. Not saying it won't happen but I have doubts unless games go the Samsung VR route.

 

[DrROBschiz]

I haven't heard VR from any contacts at this point. Not saying it won't happen but I have doubts unless games go the Samsung VR route.

Sounds like Nintendo is keeping its door open to the idea

I dont expect them to push it at launch as the selling point

 

[Mpl90]

The thread about how great the start of the year looks like on PS4 made me aware that it was revealed that Tekken 7's release date will be announced in January and

https://twitter.com/MarkMan23/status/807521013244141568

1) Kuma & Panda announced for T7
2) Special NJPW RAINMAKER X KING Promotion
3) Release date will be announced during an event next month

Assuming the reference is to a "generic" event and not a Tekken-specific one...

 

[Kimawolf]

That's not "gaming VR" tho, it could make that kind of 360° view I guess, but I don't see the point.

Lands End is one of the best VR games out. its on Gear VR. So don't knock it.

 

[TLZ]

Whoever doesn't want to get spoiled should know better than reading this thread for example.

It's really easier said than done. Desperation is a bitch.

There's an add-on for Chrome that warns you about spoilers. I did this for Uncharted 4 launch and it worked just fine.

Never knew about this.

 

[Okami Haundo]

I mean, the only way I can see VR working on the Switch is if said VR headset has its own guts & 1080p+ screen, with the Switch itself serving as the main computing part of the VR headset.

"VR" is a very general term that doesn't have to = what Oculus, Vive and PSVR do. Google Cardboard works with phones like the Galaxy S2!

 

[random25]

Japanese AAA support seems like a no brainers since all the big guys overseas already make games for everything at various budgets

I cant imagine there wont at the very least be an effort from Western AA where it makes sense

I would temper your expectations. Since this is a hybrid thats more Mobile leaning you would be more likely to see games that easily scale or are already mass ported to various hardware specs (most multiplats)

I'm not really expecting anything with regards to Western 3rd party. Just saying that mass market games are a much better deal getting into the platform rather than the Western AAA games that are already established on PS4/XBO/PC. Maybe next gen, if there will ever be one, but for now it's a little too late to chase those big budget Western games. Just need to make the Switch more viable to the mass market franchises first then maybe at some point in time it will be getting future AAA ports.

 

[El Topo]

I'm not really expecting anything with regards to Western 3rd party. Just saying that mass market games are a much better deal getting into the platform rather than the Western AAA games that are already established on PS4/XBO/PC. Maybe next gen, if there will ever be one, but for now it's a little too late to chase those big budget Western games. Just need to make the Switch more viable to the mass market franchises first then maybe at some point in time it will be getting future AAA ports.

GTA&Co *are* mass market franchises.

 

[Oregano]

I doubt Switch will be used for VR with a 720p screen.

The thread about how great the start of the year looks like on PS4 made me aware that it was revealed that Tekken 7's release date will be announced in January and

https://twitter.com/MarkMan23/status/807521013244141568



Assuming the reference is to a "generic" event and not a Tekken-specific one...

Yeah I pointed that out at the time when someone wondered why they were until January to announce a release date for something releasing in early 2017.

 

[mocolostrocolos]

I haven't heard VR from any contacts at this point. Not saying it won't happen but I have doubts unless games go the Samsung VR route.

I think the Main Unit is just too big for a VR display.

 

[Okami Haundo]

I think the Main Unit is just too big for a VR display.

You can use a Nexus 7 tablet with Google Cardboard, so it's 100% possible.

 

[mocolostrocolos]

You can use a Nexus 7 tablet with Google Cardboard, so it's 100% possible.

Had no idea. Is it comfy?

 

[Aroll]

Sebbbi is a verified Ubisoft developer. He must know something.

If he does know something, he certainly wouldn't be talking about it publicly, or he would no longer be a Ubisoft developer.

Thus, when it comes to the Switch specs, he's probably strictly in hypotheticals. If he does know something, then he's literally risking his job saying what he is saying. Thus the fact he's a verified developer just brings more doubt to what he is saying TBH, as there is no way he's allowed to talk about actual Switch performance publicly right now.

 

[Raet]

So if this is true (the guy seems somewhat reliable considering the last rumor was confirmed by Laura), is the Switch screen really 1080p?

Also, I'm becoming more convinced that they will try to charge $299-$349 for the base and premium models. I hope not but I think they might, considering the hype, then factor in the VR support, and Nintendo being Nintendo and liking profits.

I won't be able to resist buying it anyway, but it would inevitably affect sales.

 

[mocolostrocolos]

If he does know something, he certainly wouldn't be talking about it publicly, or he would no longer be a Ubisoft developer.

Thus, when it comes to the Switch specs, he's probably strictly in hypotheticals. If he does know something, then he's literally risking his job saying what he is saying. Thus the fact he's a verified developer just brings more doubt to what he is saying TBH, as there is no way he's allowed to talk about actual Switch performance publicly right now.

I meant that he must know what he's talking about, not necessarily the exact specs of Switch.

 

[Okami Haundo]

Had no idea. Is it comfy?

I haven't used one myself, but reviews I've seen online say it skews towards the heavy side. For all we know, Nintendo's headset for the Switch could help compensate for the overall weight. Either way, the experiences you'd get with that kind of VR aren't things you'll be playing for hours on end.

So if this is true (the guy seems somewhat reliable considering the last rumor was confirmed by Laura), is the Switch screen really 1080p?

Also, I'm becoming more convinced that they will try to charge $299-$349 for the base and premium models. I hope not but I think they might, considering the hype, then factor in the VR support, and Nintendo being Nintendo and liking profits.

I won't be able to resist buying it anyway, but it would inevitably affect sales.

If they do start at $299, there's at least one retailer in the UK that will be pretty ticked. They're offering price-guarantee pre-orders for what converts to about $250.

 

[random25]

GTA&Co *are* mass market franchises.

I did say on earlier posts that it is a mass market franchise. I only refer to games that are assumed to be "not technically possible on the Switch" Western AAA games.

 

[mocolostrocolos]

I haven't used one myself, but reviews I've seen online say it skews towards the heavy side. For all we know, Nintendo's headset for the Switch could help compensate for the overall weight. Either way, the experiences you'd get with that kind of VR aren't things you'll be playing for hours on end.

Interesting.

I don't think even the full VR experience is made for straight hours of gameplay, so if switch has VR, even less.

 

[El Topo]

I did say on earlier posts that it is a mass market franchise. I only refer to games that are assumed to be "not technically possible on the Switch" Western AAA games.

My apologies. I don't fully agree with the previous analysis though. It seems to me that it is all-or-nothing when it comes to consumer perception. Then again, I don't have data, so who knows?

 

[Mpl90]

https://twitter.com/GoNintendoTweet/status/814479725758414848

RawmeatCowboy is a good guy, interested to see what this is.

 

[Neoxon]

https://twitter.com/GoNintendoTweet/status/814479725758414848

RawmeatCowboy is a good guy, interested to see what this is.

I feel like the entire Switch presentation is gonna get spoiled at this rate.

 

[random25]

https://twitter.com/GoNintendoTweet/status/814479725758414848

RawmeatCowboy is a good guy, interested to see what this is.

Interesting. Any schedule when this possibly goes up?

 

[mocolostrocolos]

https://twitter.com/GoNintendoTweet/status/814479725758414848

RawmeatCowboy is a good guy, interested to see what this is.

Cool. Any track record from this guy?

 

[Gutss]

You guys always looks first on the graphics, the wii only used crt tv's and it still clicked to the masses, if the switch have the rumored haptic force feedback for their next gen motion controls, that will be a game changer.

 

[Neoxon]

You guys always looks first on the graphics, the wii only used crt tv's and it still clicked to the masses, if the switch have the rumored haptic force feedback for their next gen motion controls, that will be a game changer.

The Wii had widescreen support & could be used on HDTVs, so I don't know what you're talking about on how the Wii could only be used on CRTs.

 

[Okami Haundo]

You guys always looks first on the graphics, the wii only used crt tv's and it still clicked to the masses, if the switch have the rumored haptic force feedback for their next gen motion controls, that will be a game changer.

This is a fantastic point if you think about it in relation to VR! Graphically, I wouldn't expect VR experiences on Switch that look like PSVR games but... The tech that we know we'll find in the joycons definitely puts this a step above things like Gear VR. The more I think about it, the more I'm expecting "VR" to be the Switch's "glasses free 3D".