This is my approach right now. Zelda will be a day 1 Wii U purchase. I can already play MK8 on Wii U. While the indie lineup is fantastic I already own a lot of those on PC. So it's wait and see.
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Nintendo Switch | Hardware Review Thread
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This is my approach right now. Zelda will be a day 1 Wii U purchase. I can already play MK8 on Wii U. While the indie lineup is fantastic I already own a lot of those on PC. So it's wait and see.
MikeBison
Member
I understand where the 'wait and see' comments come from, but I tend to disagree with them.
There were outlets still saying that about the PS4 2 years into it's life span. Saying that there aren't many great games, just because the first party output had been slow, but by that point i'd bought around 40 great games, obviously many of them were 3rd party, but that doesn't mean they don't count. They're still games.
If you've got and played say 8 -10 great games by the end of this year, will the Switch be worth it? For me, absolutely.
Zelda
MK8
Splatoon 2
Smash bros port (most likely but can ignore)
Mario
Xenoblade
Let's say 4-5 indie games like Escapist 2, Overcooked etc.
The value proposition is totally there.
There were outlets still saying that about the PS4 2 years into it's life span. Saying that there aren't many great games, just because the first party output had been slow, but by that point i'd bought around 40 great games, obviously many of them were 3rd party, but that doesn't mean they don't count. They're still games.
If you've got and played say 8 -10 great games by the end of this year, will the Switch be worth it? For me, absolutely.
Zelda
MK8
Splatoon 2
Smash bros port (most likely but can ignore)
Mario
Xenoblade
Let's say 4-5 indie games like Escapist 2, Overcooked etc.
The value proposition is totally there.
Both consoles had a more desireable lineup of games and both consoles had their online up and working.
Listen I'm getting the Switch and I'm hyped as hell to play Zelda but this thing was rushed and is half baked. It doesn't even have the basic barebones features of the Wii U, no VC, the only desirable game is Zelda.
Quite frankly this should have launched in the Summer closer to Splatoon 2.
The PS4 at least had big third party titles to fall back on. We'll see how the Switch fares.
The degrading rubber of the DS4 was fixed a long time ago.
The product is launching in 2 days. It's only fair to inform the consumers while there is still time to make a decision about the device.
Omnistalgic
Member
Oh ok...I guess I could make that work...
Audioboxer
Member
Pretty much.
Anyone who wants new hardware buys new hardware regardless of reviews online. It's like all day 1 tech envy. The excitement around getting something new and shiny trumps whatever anyone is saying online.
That being said, it is good to see reviews around things such as screen quality. It's pretty much my biggest pet peeve with any hardware that comes with a screen (from games devices to mobiles). What's the backlight bleed like, what about dead pixels, what about general contrast/calibration, etc.
Luckily consoles don't normally have screens on them. It's things like fan noise and build quality that matter.
Software/OS always gets improved, but fair enough with Nintendo there is a bit of anxiety due to how slow they've been to implement robust MP features. They're even worse than Sony. Couple that with them now wanting to get in on the monthly/annual subscription $$$ and people are weary.
MikeBison
Member
Take both of those consoles launches and every single game at release, combine them, still not as close to as desirable as Zelda. And I got a PS4 at launch and was very happy with it FWIW.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah. That's on Nintendo for sending out units and setting an embargo end date before they made any day one system updates available.
That said, the update probably doesn't change much beyond making the eshop available etc. as I can't imagine Nintendo would have let them review the hardware if the update offered major changes/improvements.
franklyshankly
Member
You mean other than all the major third party titles that the Switch will likely never get? PS4 didn't have the greatest exclusive lineup at the start sure, but third party support makes a huge huge difference.
Okami Haundo
Member
I'd recommend reading some reviews for the PS4 to refresh yourself a bit. It was a great launch for sure, but it definitely wasn't "perfect". Here's a link to my personal favorite review in terms of substance and style. One thing it fails to mention are some of the launch hardware issues which included bent HDMI prongs and systems that failed to boot up entirely (the latter option happened to me).
Getting back on topic, I think this just shows that day one console purchases aren't the full story. Look at that review and you'll see just how much Sony has improved PS4 over the years. Nintendo will hopefully do the same.
TheFuzz
Member
While I'm buying mine day-one, you're logic is sound. If the market and developers see this as a replacement for 3ds with console-level graphics and seamless TV integration, it'll do great.
Just worried and pretty damn sure Nintendo will produce a "pro" or "New" Switch a year later with better battery life etc. But for mainline consoles like Gamecube and Wii, they didnt produce major iterations of the same console like from 3DS to New 3DS right?
On the battery issue, as I grow older, my attention span is way shorter and can hardly game for more than 2 hours. Either I get tired or get occupied with some distractions. I dunno what is the complains are about. Of course, long battery life is desirable but considering the power (at least handheld wise), it is remarkable already. How much game time do you get on your mobile in a game with high end graphics? On one of the reviews he is using a cheap portable battery, of course it is not going to charge it well..
On the battery issue, as I grow older, my attention span is way shorter and can hardly game for more than 2 hours. Either I get tired or get occupied with some distractions. I dunno what is the complains are about. Of course, long battery life is desirable but considering the power (at least handheld wise), it is remarkable already. How much game time do you get on your mobile in a game with high end graphics? On one of the reviews he is using a cheap portable battery, of course it is not going to charge it well..
Serious Sam
Member
Seeing as so many reviewers directly or indirectly recommend to wait, I just cancelled my preorder and will take the wait and see approach. Being slightly burnt by WiiU and also having so many alternative gaming devices waiting won't be a problem.
What? If nintendo didn't want them to review their console then dont give them to journalists prior to release and allow them to publish reviews. Thats ridiculous.
There was COD, BF4, FIFA, Madden, AC Black Flag. And that's just 3rd party. These are quite frankly games that the masses play and enjoy.
People need to stop this bogus narrative that there was no games to play on the Xbox one or PS4.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
Oh, I understand the concept. I just don't understand why anyone would think the PS4 was an average/marginal console at release. Other than a weak first party lineup of exclusives, it was really solid.
AC: Black Flag
CoD: Ghosts
Resogun
inFamous: SS (March '14 release)
Watch Dogs (May '14 release)
Probably a few others I'm forgetting. But in short, plenty. And because there was such demand for the system and games at the time, I was able to play and trade in AC, inFamous, and Watch Dogs for pretty much what they cost me.
I had one less than 2 months after launch. I played mine. I liked it a lot. I don't need to read the reviews to know what my own opinion was. And unlike you, I was on GAF at the time, and I know this community really enjoyed the PS4 at launch as well.
For me many of these issues don't exist but it's mostly due to my day to day.
I'll be purchasing a pro controller so disconnects etc. won'tl be a thing for me as well as any cramped controller complaints.
I wouldn't play this thing outside unless I'm going on a trip (hotel, friends place, car) all of which have access to an AC adapter or charging solution.
A majority of my play would be at night.
The one thing that bothers me at the moment is charging whilst in kickstand, in which case I can find an inelegant solution to.
I'll mention that I also never owned a Wii U, so all the ports etc. and especially Zelda are my one way of playin those games.
I'll be purchasing a pro controller so disconnects etc. won'tl be a thing for me as well as any cramped controller complaints.
I wouldn't play this thing outside unless I'm going on a trip (hotel, friends place, car) all of which have access to an AC adapter or charging solution.
A majority of my play would be at night.
The one thing that bothers me at the moment is charging whilst in kickstand, in which case I can find an inelegant solution to.
I'll mention that I also never owned a Wii U, so all the ports etc. and especially Zelda are my one way of playin those games.
outunderthestars
Banned
Okami Haundo
Member
I'd correct your wording there to say that both PS4 and Xbox One had a greater variety in their launch lineup. Neither had an exclusive launch title that's on-par with Zelda and most of those games could be played on their predecessors. Neither really felt like "must buy" systems at launch based on software alone.
I also agree that Switch is not a must-buy at launch either, but I think it's wise that they're getting the launch done now. It leaves plenty of time to improve before fall when the masses will be most willing to buy in.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Definitely worth it for you, but the value proposition is something that varies across people.
Zelda is the only "OMG! Must play" game for me and I'm fine with that on Wii U after watching comparison videos. Of those you listed, Mario is the only other one I'd buy for sure and platfomers aren't day one must plays for me anymore.
Add in that I'm a console gamer with no interest in portables anymore, and it's just not a good purchase for me right now even as someone who grew up with Nintendo and has owned al their systems besides virtual boy. My tastes have shifted and I'll just need to see the game library panning out in a way that appeals to me and a price drop/bundle/retailer sale before I think about taking the plunge.
That said, I also didn't get a PS4 at launch either. I'm pretty much just done early adopting things. There's never enough games for me, and as I'm getting to the point of wanting to travel more, save more for retirement etc. I'm bigger on waiting for price drops and deals despite being better off financially than at any point in my past. So day one purchases just aren't worth it for me. I'm more on waiting 6 months to a year at least for more games to be out, some bundles to be out,retailers to start having more sales, free $50 gift card with purchase type deals etc. The only difference here is I new I'd want a PS4, and Switch is still up in the air. I'll most likely end up with one unless in bombs as I like enough Nintendo games to not want to miss out, but I'll probably wait until at least after Xmas/early 2018 to have a stronger sense of whether it's going to sell well enough to get a game library that's worth it to me.
I don't think the value proposition is there on launch day though. It may be there by year end. Games got delayed and canceled all the time on Wii U. Also, there isn't enough diversity in that lineup. Those games will certainly appeal to Nintendo fans, but not to people who like to play games like Madden, Battlefield, etc. That's a problem.
Cross-posting from the powerbank thread, because that's some actual hardware news and not the 1,001st iteration of things we already know:
The german computer website Golem tested some scenarios regarding third-party AC adapters and powerbanks. Their results:
- Using third party AC adapters works when just charging the tablet. It doesn't work when docked, interestingly.
- For powerbanks, using a "normal" powerbank without a USB-C port or the newest Power Delivery revision, Switch does charge at up to 1.5 A. But only if you don't use the USB-C cable coming with the Pro Controller. Apparently, switching (ha!) to a USB-C-enabled powerbank doesn't change anything, but in contrast to what Ars Technica claims, 1.5 A is enough to (slowly) charge Switch even while gaming (or it might be just evening out, their wording isn't very precise).
The german computer website Golem tested some scenarios regarding third-party AC adapters and powerbanks. Their results:
- Using third party AC adapters works when just charging the tablet. It doesn't work when docked, interestingly.
- For powerbanks, using a "normal" powerbank without a USB-C port or the newest Power Delivery revision, Switch does charge at up to 1.5 A. But only if you don't use the USB-C cable coming with the Pro Controller. Apparently, switching (ha!) to a USB-C-enabled powerbank doesn't change anything, but in contrast to what Ars Technica claims, 1.5 A is enough to (slowly) charge Switch even while gaming (or it might be just evening out, their wording isn't very precise).
I'm not saying Nintendo shouldn't have allowed reviews. I'm saying they should have their day 1 update out so that the review copies can be updated. Without that you're basically reviewing an incomplete product.
I want to make a semantic distinction here - which comes from a place of sympathy - not haterade.
It's not "rushed" at all.
It might be late, but the planning for this console in many ways predates the Wii U (I personally suspect this IS the Wii U philosophically - and the Wii U is what you end up with if you rush. The target release window is deliberately early in the year so that a long tail makreting and improvement ramp can happen. Friday is the early adopter hype launch. Holidays will be the mainstream make or break.
This is the hardware Nintendo planned for. Maybe some things came in worse than expected - GPU while docked or battery life for example, but "rushed" would be a bunch of last minute decisions assembled in a panic and would lead to different sets of holistic problems than "late."
I'd also argue "late" is better, since it can be improved upon. Rushed might paint you into a terminal corner. Late starts from the corner and paints out towards the doorway.
Nintendo just has a lot more painting to do. And the better part of a year to do it. It's not trapped.
Caveat: Tales from my butt.
I'll sound like I'm bordering on fanboyism with this, but that IGN "6.7" line is garbage. If they had to give it a score, without the day one patch, which they don't, it would be a 6.7. In what line of thinking is that line warranted? Piles of other reviews can say "wait and see" without shamelessly throwing out a number they admit in the same sentence they don't need to assign yet.
"I just opened this new game. I haven't made it past the tutorial yet. If I had to give it a score, it would be 6.7."
Doesn't that sound idiotic?
"I just opened this new game. I haven't made it past the tutorial yet. If I had to give it a score, it would be 6.7."
Doesn't that sound idiotic?
That's a fair point. I don't see anything wrong with showing the system off and telling people how it works for you - but I don't get being so definitive with a review, so much to call it "broken" or that you should wait for another iteration, before getting the Day 1 update, software and firmware.
MikeBison
Member
For sure, worded my post badly. It obviously varies from person to person ( a previous post I made said this) but to say that it isn't worth it is a pretty blanket statement from some journo's, but it's VERY conceivable that the value proposition is there for plenty of people such as myself. And then come fall, when the dust has settled, more games are coming out, and bundles are getting sold, the value will surely be there for the mass public at large. Those Mario, Zelda, Splatoon bundles will fly off shelves.
Savinowned
Member
Well put.
Interfectum
Member
If the Joy-Cons can't be updated via firmware then yes we can qualify this launch as rushed.
jts
...hate me...
That algorithm can do with some work.
I care about Zelda but I also care A LOT about playing Zelda on the go.
Or on the bed - with a proper IPS HD display.
Also don't feel like investing in games for a console that is de-facto dead.
And lastly I'm a tech aficionado that absolutely loves new classes of hardware. Don't really care if I'm early on, I take actual enjoyment of being there in the early days for most new stuff, just like I enjoyed it for smartphones for example.
Ah, then yes I fully agree.
Lil'DigiOp
Member
Im waiting till Summer to reevaluate but with the Indie direct yesterday, there definitely is enough software Im willing to play this year.
By the summer, we'll have Arms, MK8, & Splatoon 2 as well. Def wanna see what Ninty will show at E3 this year.
By the summer, we'll have Arms, MK8, & Splatoon 2 as well. Def wanna see what Ninty will show at E3 this year.
It's really stupid, because they are going to have to change the review immediately after the day one patch. Why not just say what they can now, give it a "score pending" rating, and come back when they are prepared to fully discuss it?
It's a clickbait tactic and IGN should be above that.
The Main Event
Member
I totally understand his concerns about its future. But regarding the actual hardware, it's hard to take him too seriously when it gets so many praises out there.
I say Rushed because it doesn't have basic features. No VC, it's paid internet service is launching this fall, not to mention... do I still need a phone to talk online? I just think this would have been better off launching in the Summer alongside splatoon 2. Gives it a killer app mp game.
MikeBison
Member
I just don't believe all the games need to be out on day 1 for a purchase on day 1 to make sense. Most of us will have our hands full with Zelda and probably something else, lets say snipperclips for quite some time. Then next month potentially get MK8 (many people never got a chance to play it) and it carries on like that, I think it makes sense. Lets say there were 20 huge nintendo exclusives ready to launch this week, who has time to play them all?
I manage to get a LOT of game time in during the week even, and I know I'll have my hands full with Zelda.
Do developers release games with only a tutorial for review?
outunderthestars
Banned
Welp, we have had personal attacks on the reviewer, criticism of past review scores, and now "clickbait".
I think we just hit the "I am angry about this review score" trifecta.
I appreciate the tech under the hood may be different and require a specific voltage and what not. But now I need to keep checking the voltage and what not (which I, of course, wouldn't do. I would just but a second charger). But this is yet another annoyance and I do still wish to complain.
Now I wonder if airplane USB ports will keep it alive (not charge, they didn't charge my Vita but where enough to keep it alive)
I don't think anything can deter me from getting one at this point unless you said it was flat out dying on people. All the problems people are complaining about are personally not an issue for me at all.
Edit: I also don't understand the "wait 6 months" approach. They aren't going to have a revision by then by any means. I'm assuming many of the problems will be fixed with either a patch or (hopefully not) a recall.
Edit: I also don't understand the "wait 6 months" approach. They aren't going to have a revision by then by any means. I'm assuming many of the problems will be fixed with either a patch or (hopefully not) a recall.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
We're on the same page on that. Value proposition just depends on peoples level of interest in they console (do they like the hybrid features, or are they only console gamers and find it underpowered and over priced etc.), game interest, amount of disposable income etc.
This fall will be the real test for Switch IMO. How do those Switch bundles sell compared to $200-250 PS4 Slim and X1 bundles. The PS4 UC4 bundle is regularly on sale for $250 already and was down as low as $220 something last week. How does the Scorpio launch effect the market?
It will be an interesting sales season for sure.
Yep, great example of how value proposition varies by individual. Makes tons of sense for you to buy day one. Little sense for someone like me who doesn't care about the portability at all, doesn't at all care about having new gadgets early and prefers to wait and save money, and who isn't getting rid of my Wii U anytime soon (stays around for Wii Fit if nothing else).
Welp, we have had personal attacks on the reviewer, criticism of past review scores, and now "clickbait".
I think we just hit the "I am angry about this review score" trifecta.
What other justification is there for putting on a score for something that's going to change noticeably in a day or two?
The bigger deal here is that the usb charging ports on planes won't be able to charge the Switch while playing. However this isn't Nintendo's problem rather than the older USB standards just doesn't provide enough charging power. It's not like they decided not to allow for it, it's that older technology isn't sufficient. There's nothing they can do here rather than build a time machine and change history.
That is basically what the crux of what Jeff was saying. It's a problem with both sides. You can't in good faith give a complete review of the hardware if the day one firmware update isn't out yet, but at the same time, if you're going to ship the hardware for reviews, you need to have the firmware ready to go for your review units.
Like, there's zero reason for IGN to give that review a number, but that's how they do reviews so they had to give it one. If you need to put a disclaimer in your review that there's stuff missing that prevents you to give a complete review (and you're calling it a "review in progress") what in the world are you doing assigning a number to that review score? Maybe that says more about their reader base than anything else.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Well, some of these are concerning. I got mine from Amazon. If I'm not impressed, I'll just send the bitch back. Simple process for me.
Salty Rice
Member
Like the New Wii and the New Wii U?
Oh wait they never existed. People shouldnt expect a new Switch iteration anytime soon or even happening.
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