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[Chairhome]

Exactly!

Takashi Miike is in the game! The man is one of my favorite directors, and his presence prefectly reflects the game's mindset. It's batshit insane and the fact that it makes no sense, is the entire point!

Of course, I wouldn't expect Gaffers, to know Miike and his work.

It was mentioned before, some of us know :-D

Ah! Thanks! Weirdly, the last page of this thread is the only one I didn't look at, when I was scanning the last couple of pages, to see if they had been posted.

Yeah, and they probably found it here, cause I got them from someone who wants to remain unknown. And I usually hate posting this, but in this case, its true: GAF -> Internet -> GAF

EDIT: Saw the story, yeah, somone just took my links and submitted them, haha. Awesome. And unless Video Man posts there also, a user there copy and pasted his post of the differences between the scripts. I don't really care, but :-/

 

[John Harker]

Woa the mood of this thread sure has shifted. The game is great. What the problem is?

You're disgracing my first official NMH thread with your claimless bitching. Constructive critiques only please.

:lol yea right... as if that's even possible with a Suda Goichi game.

I have complains with it sure, and it's arguable if the second game is as "impactful" as the first, which I'm not sure it is either, but saying it's a 'bad game' to me is just really weird. And most ways, it's a "better" game than the first one. Technically speaking, pacing, arguable artistically, etc. Okay so one can claim the story isnt as good or as open to interpretations, but saying the game sucks for what is pretty much means you have no idea what it is

 

[Threi]

Yeah, anyone saying that Desperate Struggle is Suda's DMC2 is probably the dumbest person on the planet right now.

DS's gameplay is vastly improved, it's just storyline, script, and other additional things that some argue are acking when compared to the first.

DMC2 was just an anal atom bomb.

Pretty much.

The only thing that could possibly be argued as inferior to NMH1 in NMH2 is subjective and differs from person to person. But NMH2 is a better game in pretty much every way.

 

[Ushojax]

This is the most retarded GAF backlash of all time. As bad as DMC2, :lol :lol :lol :lol

Why the fuck do people have such a goddamn hardon for the bosses in the first game? They had no goddamn character development, just a couple of throwaway lines of dialogue before the fucking fights. That's it. NMH2 have the phone calls to replace that, ala MGS codec calls before the bosses.

Exactly. Do people really think that NMH had well developed bosses? Or even a concrete story? It didn't. That was the joke. It still is.

 

[AceBandage]

Sequels always get backlash, regardless of the quality.
And it's always worse if the original was so beloved.
It's just the way people are.

 

[Urban Scholar]

Sequels always get backlash, regardless of the quality.
And it's always worse if the original was so beloved.
It's just the way people are.

Quoted for utmost accuracy and truth everyone. On the matter of bosses, I think the monologues were the same: they still sounded like sociopaths and insane like the first game. Watch NMH1 cut-scenes and make comparisons if you have the time.

 

[G.O.O.]

Reminds me that NMH was said to be inferior to Killer 7, while being a better game overall.

Suda cycle ?

 

[UpperCaseN]

so it's said in this thread that the portals Sylvia talks about are references to stages based off of other games? Can someone list them for me? I read here, but didn't realize myself that:

Spoiler

Matt Helms stage is like RE4
Prison stage is like Metal Gear Solid

were there any others?

 

[Roto13]

Reminds me that NMH was said to be inferior to Killer 7, while being a better game overall.

Suda cycle ?

I'm pretty sure anyone who would compare a game like Killer 7 to a game like No More Heroes in the first place would have to be some kind of idiot anyway.

 

[Swittcher]

I'm pretty sure anyone who would compare a game like Killer 7 to a game like No More Heroes in the first place would have to be some kind of idiot anyway.

Oh come on, they're exactly the same.

 

[Urban Scholar]

so it's said in this thread that the portals Sylvia talks about are references to stages based off of other games? Can someone list them for me? I read here, but didn't realize myself that:

Spoiler

Matt Helms stage is like RE4
Prison stage is like Metal Gear Solid

were there any others?

Spoiler

I'm fairly certain Alice's stage, the urban city, is a spoof/nod to Grand Theft Auto. I didn't catch the reference myself until all the parking lots and large number of thugs with guns.

 

[Roto13]

Oh come on, they're exactly the same.

I certainly hope that's sarcasm.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

I have to be honest, I find this game overall a much better experience than the first one. I enjoyed the first one but there were a lot of annoying little nuances that just made the game frustrating at times. This has taken everything fun and great from the first one and refined it made it better.

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

Spoiler

I'm fairly certain Alice's stage, the urban city, is a spoof/nod to Grand Theft Auto. I didn't catch the reference myself until all the parking lots and large number of thugs with guns.

Wasn't that the stage when you just walk from left to right at the beginning? Makes me think more along the lines of Streets of Rage.

 

[G.O.O.]

Spoiler

I'm fairly certain Alice's stage, the urban city, is a spoof/nod to Grand Theft Auto. I didn't catch the reference myself until all the parking lots and large number of thugs with guns.

We were thinking

Spoiler

not GTA but classic 2D beat'em all, Killer 7 or Silent Hill

.

 

[Urban Scholar]

Wasn't that the stage when you just walk from left to right at the beginning? Makes me think more along the lines of Streets of Rage.

Hmm, upon further thought your guess sounds more plausible than mine. Kudos on your avatar by the way, my favorite brand in the game as it resembles clothing I wear in real life.

We were thinking

Spoiler

not GTA but classic 2D beat'em all, Killer 7 or Silent Hill

.

I see well, perhaps I just interpreted it wrong this time, heh.

 

[oracrest]

I beat this over the weekend, and loved every minute of the game!!

honestly, it felt like it was designed for me. The satire, and 4th wall breaking was awesome, and I just absolutely loved the 8-bit design that was peppered everywhere. Especially the

Spoiler

Shinobu segments

were really fun.

It was a really fun title, and a great improvement on the original.

 

[ZealousD]

Sequels always get backlash, regardless of the quality.

Super Metroid
Diablo II
Gears of War 2
God of War II

 

[silverbullet1080]

Gears of War 2

:lol

 

[G.O.O.]

:lol

 

[Ryuuga]

Why is it a big deal if some people prefer the original over the sequel and vice versa? Can we shut the fuck up about it already? I mean seriously, even if I do prefer one over the other I'm not going to sit here and drone on about why you should consider my view on things. Does it need to be brought up AGAIN that both games do things differently? Well, they do. Therefore, we can logically assume that some people may prefer some of the decisions made in one game over the other.


Anyway, the final boss is a pain in the ass on Bitter. There is no conceivable way to dodge his attacks during the 2nd phase of his 2nd form. While I welcome the challenge, luck shouldn't be a factor of the battle.

 

[Giolon]

I started playing this on Saturday, and I'm now Ranked #8. Some of you might remember I only played the first game recently, and I loved the hell out of it. So far, I'm enjoying NMH2 far less than the original, mostly due to the "improvements" made to the sequel.

Lack of Overworld: As crappy as it was, the Santa Destroy overworld gave you a sense of place. Actually going somewhere gave battles more meaning, IMO, than simply picking the location of a dropdown. Simply having that spacial awareness of where you were in relation to your motel, or the UAA building, or that bridge across the river.

Lack of Upgrades: I guess Naomi spent too much time upgrading herself and not enough time upgrading weapon technology in the intervening time period. I bought the first two beam saber upgrades after the first two ranking matches (after only 20 minutes of playing minigames!) only to find that...those were the ONLY upgrades available to me for the duration of the entire game. No more upgrading the battery power, No more upgrading the damage...what gives? Now I have no more reason to visit Naomi ever again (aside from the obvious) and I'm not even 1/10 through the game.

Lack of Fair Combat: Multiple enemies attacking you at once sounds like a great improvement to the combat system on paper. Due to the poor camera and poor movement controls, combined with new enemies that are harder to stun and who attack from behind each other or off camera, it's just an exercise in frustration. Especially when getting shot by a machine gun, knocked down, and kicked repeatedly only to get shot and knocked down again just as you get up. It's not great. Gun Millionaire's exploding bouncing coin shot also falls in this category.

Lack of Pacing:The necessity of doing sidejobs and generi-assassination missions in NMH1 I felt gave the game a great rhythym. Do a new sidejob, do a new generi-assassination mission once or twice, run a gauntlet of foes, fight a cool boss. NMH2 just goes: Fight <10 guys in one room, Fight a "cool" boss. Again, on paper this sounds like the perfect way to improve a sequel, but to me it just makes it feel flat. How can you feel like a high is high if there's no lows to compare it to? The brevity of the pre-boss melees sees them end just as you're getting into a flow. There's no opportunity to just wail on loads of beam saber fodder for any extended period of time. Then you get to the bosses and they're simultaneously more frustrating yet still easier than the bosses of the first game.

So, that's how I feel at least so far. I suppose this all sounds much more negative than I really feel about the game. I still like it a fair bit. I just feel that its not as special or as great the second time around due to the improvements/compromises made in the sequel.

 

[John Harker]

Wasn't that the stage when you just walk from left to right at the beginning? Makes me think more along the lines of Streets of Rage.

I originally thought Streets of Rage as well while in the moment, but the more I think about it, the more I think it could be GTA. watch the original reveal trailer of NMH2. It has travis walking slowly through Santa Destroy and ends similarly to the way that stage ends, with Travi's head on the building. It's the scene from that trailer. And that trailer is similar to the scene of Niko walking slowly through Liberty City while images of LC change around him.

I think it's a riff on that.

 

[farnham]

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Bebpo]

Why is it a big deal if some people prefer the original over the sequel and vice versa? Can we shut the fuck up about it already? I mean seriously, even if I do prefer one over the other I'm not going to sit here and drone on about why you should consider my view on things. Does it need to be brought up AGAIN that both games do things differently? Well, they do. Therefore, we can logically assume that some people may prefer some of the decisions made in one game over the other.

Yeah. Some people will like NMH2, some people will hate it. You can feel strongly either way while still being a fan of the original and Suda's works.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I think NMH2 is overall better, but the valleys this game has (which were a few too many for my liking) are worse.

Like, the Supermarket Parking Lot was honestly terrible. The bike section, the platforming sections, the final boss, all of them make me wish they just did NMH again.

 

[Chairhome]

I don't think the supermarket part was terrible, I just think it was long. I used Peony, kept using my ecstasy gauge and lucked out with some slot machine power ups. It was enjoyable. The bike part was a little pointless, but it was just there so you get used to the bike controls right before fighting the boss, and that wasn't too bad (though I probably just got lucky). Platforming section did suck though. Final boss wasn't too bad. Was cheap

Spoiler

when he could punch you out the window

, but you can retry at the beginning of that section, so that's moot, in my opinion.

 

[G.O.O.]

I honestly think the parking lot was one of the best parts of the game. It was long, but it's one of the moments where I thought the words "desperate struggle" made sense.

On the other hand, I hated the bike fight.

 

[Nose Master]

Bumper car battle had no reason being there. I died about five times trying to over think it, then just won by spamming nitro and ramming him immediately. About ten seconds. So uh, bosses are just done having any sort of introduction/speech now, hey?

 

[farnham]

is the bike part comparable to the one in madworld..?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The lack of boss introductions (both their own and Sylvia's) was a big loss.

 

[Swittcher]

I started playing this on Saturday, and I'm now Ranked #8. Some of you might remember I only played the first game recently, and I loved the hell out of it. So far, I'm enjoying NMH2 far less than the original, mostly due to the "improvements" made to the sequel.

Lack of Overworld: As crappy as it was, the Santa Destroy overworld gave you a sense of place. Actually going somewhere gave battles more meaning, IMO, than simply picking the location of a dropdown. Simply having that spacial awareness of where you were in relation to your motel, or the UAA building, or that bridge across the river.

Lack of Upgrades: I guess Naomi spent too much time upgrading herself and not enough time upgrading weapon technology in the intervening time period. I bought the first two beam saber upgrades after the first two ranking matches (after only 20 minutes of playing minigames!) only to find that...those were the ONLY upgrades available to me for the duration of the entire game. No more upgrading the battery power, No more upgrading the damage...what gives? Now I have no more reason to visit Naomi ever again (aside from the obvious) and I'm not even 1/10 through the game.

Lack of Fair Combat: Multiple enemies attacking you at once sounds like a great improvement to the combat system on paper. Due to the poor camera and poor movement controls, combined with new enemies that are harder to stun and who attack from behind each other or off camera, it's just an exercise in frustration. Especially when getting shot by a machine gun, knocked down, and kicked repeatedly only to get shot and knocked down again just as you get up. It's not great. Gun Millionaire's exploding bouncing coin shot also falls in this category.

Lack of Pacing:The necessity of doing sidejobs and generi-assassination missions in NMH1 I felt gave the game a great rhythym. Do a new sidejob, do a new generi-assassination mission once or twice, run a gauntlet of foes, fight a cool boss. NMH2 just goes: Fight <10 guys in one room, Fight a "cool" boss. Again, on paper this sounds like the perfect way to improve a sequel, but to me it just makes it feel flat. How can you feel like a high is high if there's no lows to compare it to? The brevity of the pre-boss melees sees them end just as you're getting into a flow. There's no opportunity to just wail on loads of beam saber fodder for any extended period of time. Then you get to the bosses and they're simultaneously more frustrating yet still easier than the bosses of the first game.

So, that's how I feel at least so far. I suppose this all sounds much more negative than I really feel about the game. I still like it a fair bit. I just feel that its not as special or as great the second time around due to the improvements/compromises made in the sequel.

I agree with everything but the "Fair Combat" thing, when I got used to re-centering the camera, and just knowing where each guy was....

Dudes DIED.

Easily.

s the bike part comparable to the one in madworld..?

Bike is way better in MW.

 

[Dascu]

Ehh, parking lot fight was just waves of enemies. Felt like an assassination mission or the bus fight for Rank 3 from NMH1. I thought it was fine. It's a great playing field to have fun with the slots. I love turning into a tiger.


They should've turned the bike fight into a race instead. Bump opponent into damaging obstacles, while driving through trash and minor obstacles to build up Nitro boost meter, like the Rank 3 area.

 

[Hiltz]

Ocassionally turning into a tiger was pretty cool. I love pressing the B button while enemies are down on the ground to pounce and maul their faces.

is the bike part comparable to the one in madworld..?

Nope. MadWorld actually has you attack enemies while on your bike. Even in the original NMH game, you rode on your bike on the highway and used it to ram enemies while dodging laser beams and jumping over logs in one section of the game. However, in the sequel, there's

Spoiler

only 1 motorcycle section ( that just has you simply ride the bike with no enemies around. There's some minor obstacles in your path and the only two things you can do while on the bike is use you're nitro to speed up or use motion control (like in the first game) to perform a motorcycle jump but it serves no actual purpose other than just doing it for fun. The section is very basic and straight forward so don't expect any surprises.

I don't think I'll ever play this game on mild mode again and never on bitter. Mild mode is pissing me off right now.

I'm at the final boss and he's frustrating as hell. His first form is very easy but its his second form that makes him such a cheap bastard. I just can't get past it but I've gotten close to beating him with 3-2 bars of health left on him.

I found a pretty effective ways to deal damage on his

Spoiler

second form early on is to simply use the red extend beam katana by charging it up and waiting for the boss to walk towards you. If you're fast enough, you can even hit him and avoid receiving any damage from his thrown bat projectiles (otherwise just dodge them).You can easily knock 4-5 bars of health out of him this way. I tried fighting him at close range but it just makes it that much easier for the boss to hit you especially with his quickly charged straight punch.

However, his next stage makes it very difficult to attack him. He'll either walk slowly towards you but regardless of whether you choose to attack him by using the same method as I described above, or attempt to attack him at close range, he'll randomly and instantly perform his highly damaging teleport punch or the cycle punch which are very difficult to dodge in my opinion. There's that trick some players use against other bosses (like with Ryuji's summoned dragon) to simply switch beam katanas (the animation during this time makes you invincible from being hit by enemy attacks). Unfortunately, Jasper's special attacks are too fast to use this cheap but effective way of avoiding getting hit.

I find it incredibly cheap how the boss can knock you down and continue to do another teleport punch or cyclone punch on ya before you can even get up... and even if you do, the attack will simply knock you down again. I've died 3 times this way already. The other two times he managed to knock me out the window. Even if you try to dodge his special punch attacks, if you get hit even once, the boss will automatically hit you with the rest of the multiple punches or cyclone attack.

I usually just attack him with the running slash and the special Nunchuck controller attack move after dodging his attacks except for his bat projectile which I can't seem to get around to hit him after he performs it. I can typically hit him up 3 hits before he teleports away to safety.

 

[dragonballjoseph]

I found a pretty effective ways to deal damage on his

Spoiler

I find it incredibly cheap how the boss can knock you down and continue to do another teleport punch or cyclone punch on ya before you can even get up... and even if you do, the attack will simply knock you down again. I've died 3 times this way already. The other two times he managed to knock me out the window. Even if you try to dodge his special punch attacks, if you get hit even once, the boss will automatically hit you with the rest of the multiple punches or cyclone attack.

Spoiler

If you're knocked down by the teleport punch, wait and see if he goes for it again before getting up. This way, you avoid getting hit in the loop and you can get in a few free hits.

 

[Screenboy]

any newz on a pal release?

 

[Hiltz]

Spoiler

If you're knocked down by the teleport punch, wait and see if he goes for it again before getting up. This way, you avoid getting hit in the loop and you can get in a few free hits.

I was hoping that this would be the case. However, I've still received damage while remaining on the ground after being knocked down. With some of the other bosses, like with Alice, you could avoid getting hit again by her projectile attack by remaining on the ground because she keeps on performing it until you hit her.

 

[Wizpig]

any newz on a pal release?

This thursday they are going to announce the EUR release date.

Too bad I imported!
Finally got the game today!

 

[TehSw1tch]

Destructoid managed to snag a bunch of boss art, but I have no idea where from, and they don't offer it to download.

http://www.destructoid.com/analyzing-no-more-heroes-2-part-2-the-bosses-part-2-162303.phtml

 

[VistraNorrez]

The lack of boss introductions (both their own and Sylvia's) was a big loss.

Upon replaying NMH I found Sylvia's cell phone intros surprisingly unvaried. They almost all said the same thing with a few words swapped. The calls in the sequel are far more interesting.

As for the bosses own intros, some had them in the original some didn't. They're probably pretty equal between the games. It's really just opinion about which ones are better. 2 is at a disadvantage because the novelty has worn off.

Here's all the combat improvements for NMH2 that I could think off:

Forward emergency evade
better punch/kick combo
more noticeable and more useful high/low stance differences
all 4 swords are more unique (some really are more effective depending on the enemy)
swappable swords during gameplay.
The super move slot rolls for more finishers (wrestling moves, ground kills).
Ecstasy meter equals longer sword (stronger attacks?)
The super moves are better and more useful

 

[BorkBork]

I miss Diane from Beef Head Video's late messages. :lol

 

[Tenbatsu]

Currently Rank 8 now. I cant seem to remember the bosses name unlike NMH. Is it just me?

 

[Poyunch]

Ah! Thanks! Weirdly, the last page of this thread is the only one I didn't look at, when I was scanning the last couple of pages, to see if they had been posted.

It's okay. Typical GAF -> Internet => GAF situation.

edit: Damn already mentioned. Anyway here are the things I prefer in NMH over NMH2.

Phone calls: They built it up the fight. They hyped you up.

Overworld: It's been mentioned before but yeah you don't really get the sense of the world without it. Heck whenever I pass by a landmark in NMH I would remember the fight associated with it.

Pacing: Another thing already mentioned. While it the minigames weren't fun for most people and neither was grinding money it changed up the pace. Fighting a few guys then moving on to a boss just feels boring especially when there's nothing to really the action.

Yes you could break up the action if you wanted to but the game never really gave me a reason to.

Also the levels. Every so often the action would break up. Be it the smoke alarm reacting causing your katana to short out or playing baseball. Just look at Speed Buster. There was more interesting distractions is what I'm getting at. Shinobu's jumping and the sneaking part in the game wasn't (although I don't know how long that sneaking portion lasted because I got caught at the beginning ).

Characters: It's already been said and done too many times in this thread. You got a sense of characterization from both the phone calls and the conversations. I don't care if it was meant to bring focus on Travis and Sylvia (according to Destructoid) but they're both assholes. Why would I want to focus on them?

 

[Papercuts]

Currently Rank 8 now. I cant seem to remember the bosses name unlike NMH. Is it just me?

Not just you. I remember about 5 names, and I just played it. Ask me in 2 years and I'll probably only remember Margaret.

 

[Milabrega]

Currently Rank 8 now. I cant seem to remember the bosses name unlike NMH. Is it just me?

Ranks 7, 5 and 2 are memorable. 3 is too, though right now I'm drawing a blank on his name, similar to how I can't remember the name of the Magician from 1 though.

 

[somedevil]

Destructoid managed to snag a bunch of boss art, but I have no idea where from, and they don't offer it to download.

http://www.destructoid.com/analyzing-no-more-heroes-2-part-2-the-bosses-part-2-162303.phtml

Some is art but most seem to be in game models. I would love to get art for all the bosses like the original. Also you can get the images from the article like I did.

 

[Cheesyhobo]

Just finished it, and overall this was a much better designed and more consistent game than the first. No More Heroes had higher highs (Bad Girl and Henry are still my favorite fights in the series), but this game cuts out so much of the tedious bullshit from the first one it's a godsend. I can actually recommend this game to a friend with a clear conscience, knowing they'll likely enjoy it. No More Heroes was torture whenever you weren't in a ranking fight.

I have to say, though, this game just wasn't as funny as NMH. I guess Travis being all angsty and TUFF is supposed to be part of the joke, but that really gets tiring after the first hour or so.

Oh, and nice hair physics.

 

[Nightstick11]

Picked up NMH 2 on Friday. Beat it in one day. Immediately started it a new game. I love this game to death. The style, the music, the cutscenes etc.

If I play NMH (never played it), will it be hard to go back to the things they didn't "improve"?

 

[jaundicejuice]

Please don't conflate everyone's opinion into one. I didn't say that No More Heroes 2 was Suda's Devil May Cry 2. And please don't attempt to pajoratively dismiss contrary opinions as " lawl backlash". I like Desperate Struggle, in many ways it is a better game, that said there are some aspects of the game that I don't necessarily like and something I think everyone can agree upon is that there are significant changes made between the games.

I need to go through the original No More Heroes again if I want to do a more concise breakdown of what I do and do not like about each game, it's been nearly two years since I last played the original. However the one thing I don't like about the sequel is the change in enemies. All of the grapplers, sword weilders and beefy axe or chain saw wielding enemies who were just damage sponges kind of mired the pace of combat down. I liked cutting a bloody swathe through the legions of average enemies before encountering some bizarre-ass but cool boss fight in the first game, it was empowering. Those moments felt few and far between in Desperate Struggle. The mall parking lot and the final level gave me that vibe.

It got too weird and random in some parts. I realise that No More Heroes is an absurd game, and this is an aspect I'm struggling to define why I dislike some of the boss battles and moments within Desperate Struggle. The most succinct way I can think of to describe this is the difference between say Psycho Mantis and The Pain. Both are these absurd, supernatural bosses, only one is pretty damned cool and the other throws balls of bees at you. For example, I could have done without the end bosses

Spoiler

third and final form. I think if the game had ended on Travis drop kicking Batt Jr. out of the window I would probably be a lot more statisfied with the ending than battling it out against the Stay Puft Marshmellow man

.

is the bike part comparable to the one in madworld..?

No, the bike sections in MadWorld are actually fun. You drive around and kill shit, in NMH2 you just drive down two sections of the highway towards a boss fight. You can dodge some debris on the road or ram through it, that's about it. It's one of those moments I dislike in games where interactivity is a tool and not the point.

 

[TehSw1tch]

Some is art but most seem to be in game models. I would love to get art for all the bosses like the original. Also you can get the images from the article like I did.

Sorry, I meant like super high-res versions. There's massive pics of Travis and Nathan, and Shinobu, but no one else.