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[Speevy]

There is literally no other subject in either the Gaming or Off-topic discussion which includes exactly the same arguments, almost the same words than religious discussion.

And it always ends with the dominant group (atheists) getting angrier, and no one comes to a mutual understanding about anything.

Sure, there are forum-goers who have different levels of religious belief or tolerance towards religious beliefs or religious people, but the threads always escalate into one or two religious people pointing out how mean-spirited and useless atheists are, and the atheists trample those people to death for their trouble.

I guess what I'm asking is this. Have we ever taken a religious discussion in a worthwhile direction? Have you ever viewed one of these threads and thought "I never considered that."

 

[Ela Hadrun]

There is literally no other subject in either the Gaming or Off-topic discussion which includes exactly the same arguments, almost the same words than religious discussion.

And it always ends with the dominant group (atheists) getting angrier, and no one comes to a mutual understanding about anything.

Sure, there are forum-goers who have different levels of religious belief or tolerance towards religious beliefs or religious people, but the threads always escalate into one or two religious people pointing out how mean-spirited and useless atheists are, and the atheists trample those people to death for their trouble.

I guess what I'm asking is this. Have we ever taken a religious discussion in a worthwhile direction? Have you ever viewed one of these threads and thought "I never considered that."

Some of them start out well. They really have. And I've learned a lot from selectively ducking in an out of the Islam thread. But they all go to shit eventually.

Oh, but guns is the same way. If you go into a gun thread it's the same thing.

 

[soul creator]

There is literally no other subject in either the Gaming or Off-topic discussion which includes exactly the same arguments, almost the same words than religious discussion.

And it always ends with the dominant group (atheists) getting angrier, and no one comes to a mutual understanding about anything.

Sure, there are forum-goers who have different levels of religious belief or tolerance towards religious beliefs or religious people, but the threads always escalate into one or two religious people pointing out how mean-spirited and useless atheists are, and the atheists trample those people to death for their trouble.

I guess what I'm asking is this. Have we ever taken a religious discussion in a worthwhile direction? Have you ever viewed one of these threads and thought "I never considered that."

that's generally what happens when one attempts to discuss a vague moving target

 

[Deleted member 1235]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090309/ap_on_re/rel_religious_america

At 15%, the non religious dwarf Jews, Muslims, Pentecostals, and Mormons COMBINED . . . yet we are the least trusted group. Go Figure. Well, that is going to change over time. Yeah!

Maybe Dawkins' brash style was effective? Or maybe Bush gave the religious a bad image?

Dawkins style is effective. Kind of in the same way a preachers style is effective. Makes people notice, makes people think, even if you don't like him, you can't argue that he hasn't opened some eyes. Give him a medal I think.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

That's a very, very utilitarian view: only the objective matters.

Unsurprisingly, I disagree with you.

That's a silly thing to say. You choose what you want to include in the objective. So whatever it is that you hold sacrosanct you include.

from a humanist stand point, continuous progress, with egalitarian bent is a pretty succint way of encompassing those sorts of ideals.

It means in a practical manner;

we seek to further human progress, in a sustainable manner (after all, there's no continuation of progress if we screw ourselves through progress (nuclear war, global warming, economic crisis, cthulu, etc)).

And chief among the progress is a far and equitable distribution of opportunities and resources, in recognition of each individuals awesome potential (irrespective of whether or not its achieved).

As for how do you measure progress... technology, human happiness, equality, knowledge, the arts... all of it. Anything that enhances the human experience in a positive manner. Of course some paths of development will be preferable, as they help increase the speed of progress (think Civ style tech tree) of other facets, but in general, any progress is great stuff.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

you guys forget that many people who claim to be Catholic or whatever in those Census dont even go to church.

they just mark Catholic in the Census for cultural and traditional reasons because celebrating holidays and having wedding at churches is cool

many non-religious people categorize themselves as some sort of traditional relgiion that their parents were

the % of non-believers is if fact higher than that number

I'd say, maybe as high as 47%. The proportion of people that would vote for an atheist president.

 

[malingenie]

I love that this billboards were erected in Texas of all places!

One day the world will be ours!

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/569936.aspx

Note that this happened in March.

 

[iapetus]

bingo

they need to give religion some sex appeal, some lasers, some money, some SCHPAW

Scientology FTW?

 

[methos75]

Dawkins style is effective. Kind of in the same way a preachers style is effective. Makes people notice, makes people think, even if you don't like him, you can't argue that he hasn't opened some eyes. Give him a medal I think.

I think the mass majority in the US do not even have any idea who dawkins is.

 

[painey]

its amazing that in such a huge country, only 15% dont believe in an invisible deity of some kind.

 

[Souldriver]

Funny how that Christian Broadcasting Network site has a similar logo to the theonion.com

 

[Frester]

+1. I was surprised when I went to Prague, someone I met there said the Czech were 60-65% nonreligious...and yet so many of the monuments/sites in Prague are churches from the 13th century :lol

 

[tabsina]

its amazing that in such a huge country, only 15% dont believe in an invisible deity of some kind.

though probably not that amazing to the other 85%

 

[Aurora]

Sad I wasn't born in a religious-free world.

 

[Beer Monkey]

GAF will be GAF, but anybody who thinks that the atheists are the mean-spirited intolerant ones in western culture is smoking some serious right-wing crack.

 

[lunarworks]

+1. I was surprised when I went to Prague, someone I met there said the Czech were 60-65% nonreligious...and yet so many of the monuments/sites in Prague are churches from the 13th century :lol

I'm not religious, and I have great appreciation for churches as works of architecture and historical value. Some of them are just beautiful.

 

[Joel Was Right]

I honestly don't see the point of talking about religion here on GAF.

 

[Pandaman]

I love that this billboards were erected in Texas of all places!

One day the world will be ours!

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/569936.aspx

Note that this happened in March.

this is the second old atheism thread you've bumped. Is there something on your mind? Im willing to talk about it with you.

 

[CultureClearance]

I was brought up in a small town full of...religious people. So, when I was 14 and someone asked me what religion I was I would just say christian just to be polite. Now, that's not the case. If they ask, I give them the real answer. If they ask why. I give them the real answer. If they get angry over being honest and polite and not insensitive about it, that's their problem.

 

[kottila]

I love that this billboards were erected in Texas of all places!

One day the world will be ours!

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/569936.aspx

Note that this happened in March.

What's the point of advertising atheism or any religion. I get advertising for specific churches, but the whole religion (or for no religion at all)? I'd like to meet someone who would change their religious status based on a billboard.

 

[Marvie_3]

I'm not religious, and I have great appreciation for churches as works of architecture and historical value. Some of them are just beautiful.

Same here. I got to see a lot of them when I was in Europe a few years ago.

 

[SnakeSlashRO]

I never understood people who didnt believe in God, but believe in something else that created us... Like Aliens.


Well in that cause wouldn't God be E.T. LOL. If that were the case...

 

[Kipz]

What's the point of advertising atheism or any religion. I get advertising for specific churches, but the whole religion (or for no religion at all)? I'd like to meet someone who would change their religious status based on a billboard.

I don't think it's inteded to convert people per se. It says "Don't believe in god? You're not alone" it's merely advertising a community of people who share a similar belief. It's a very frustrating experience when everybody believes in a bearded sky man and you have nobody to talk to about your doubt.

 

[krioto]

15% - well wiith any luck that will keep going up.

The sooner mankind throws the religious monkey of it's back, the better.

On a side note, I quite like Dawkins - he was one of the scientists on a show they had over ion the UK (something like Disecting the Giants - I know that is not the title), where they did autopsies on a number of animals - elephant, giraffe etc, to a live audience, and explained the evolutionary forces/reactions that gave the animal it's current traits.

He is a smart chap.

 

[iapetus]

I never understood people who didnt believe in God, but believe in something else that created us... Like Aliens.

Well in that cause wouldn't God be E.T.

No. Creating humanity isn't the defining feature of God.

 

[Kagari]

I love that this billboards were erected in Texas of all places!

One day the world will be ours!

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/569936.aspx

Note that this happened in March.

Stuff like this is just as irritating as the pro-religion ads though. True non-believers don't care either way.

 

[Mr.City]

When people say religion, which one do you think of? So many here to think it only means the biblical religions.

 

[John Dunbar]

No. Creating humanity isn't the defining feature of God.

just the defining flaw.

 

[silverbullet1080]

I never understood people who didnt believe in God, but believe in something else that created us... Like Aliens.

Probably because it's something tangible, something that can be investigated and researched.

 

[Blackface]

Here are my two biggest reasons why I find it difficult to respect an athiest the same way I do a religious person. Firstly, it seems to me that young people choose atheism not because they dont believe in God but because they find it more convenient to not have a religion with rules to have to follow. I dont know if its a correlation between the fact that both atheism and laziness are growing in young people, but most complaints about religion seem to me to stem from a distaste for having to follow rules than for there not being a God.

Secondly, there is the generalizations of all religions. The same religion that is known for not eating meat on Fridays (I assume thats what youre talking about there) is not the same religion that rejects traditional medicine. As far as I know, the sect(s) that reject medicine are very small in size and considered obscure by mainstream Christians. A lot of complaints about religion are about beliefs that are viewed as ridiculous even by religious people like myself. Just because some Muslims fly planes into buildings and some Christians run around like nutjobs on Sundays (see: Borat) doesnt mean that all religions are stupid. I think part of all this is because athiests dont fully understand the rationale of certain traditions and customs and assume its just superstition.

As I said that I dont like the generalization of religions by atheists, I dont want to be a hypocrite and generalize all atheists the same way. It is just that in the experiences I have had with atheists I know personally, they have either some or all of these characteristics Ive mentioned. Some are more respectful towards religion than others. The point is, I think religion is doing a very poor job of giving young people a reason why it should be relevant and thats why its getting such a bad rap, but that can be left for another time.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Kinitari]

Stuff like this is just as irritating as the pro-religion ads though. True non-believers don't care either way.

I can appreciate what you're saying, but I think billboards like that do play an important role. Non-religionism (Atheism) is so villianified in some places, in the United states for example, I remember there was a poll that said that they would rather have a lesbian black liberal muslim president then an Atheist one.

The design of 'Atheism' (or lack there of) doesn't really encourage 'groups'. I know sometimes I feel like I am all alone in my disbelief, and it is a bit frustrating. For some people it might even be frightening (I know some of my Muslim relatives would be uuuuupseeeeet to find out I was Atheist). In general, I think anything to encourage the 'mainstreaming' of Atheism is important to me, and probably a lot of other North Americans.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

I think GAF is confusing secularism and Atheism. This article is about secularism being on the rise...which isn't much of a surprise to me.

 

[Frester]

I'm not religious, and I have great appreciation for churches as works of architecture and historical value. Some of them are just beautiful.

Oh don't get me wrong, I do too, I just thought it was a tad ironic.

 

[Extollere]

I don't think his goal is diplomacy. His goal is the outreach of his views and ideas. If somebody wants a diplomatic and friendly atheist there is always Sam Harris.

Harris is awesome, probably my favorite of the outspoken atheist/agnostic crowd. The book he wrote:

Was God-Damned Awesome If you haven't read it, I highly encourage giving it a go. Also there is a pretty good Harris playlist over at youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=922F82D909AEEE83

 

[Beer Monkey]

I know sometimes I feel like I am all alone in my disbelief, and it is a bit frustrating.

Tons of local groups at http://atheists.meetup.com/
Also, why not hit up an Amazing Meeting? http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/amazing-meeting.html

 

[siddx]

Only 15%?
Thought by now it would be much higher.

 

[charlequin]

I love that this billboards were erected in Texas of all places!

its amazing that in such a huge country, only 15% dont believe in an invisible deity of some kind.

Y'know, this "invisible" tic that people have makes atheism sound much sillier than it needs to. "Magical" would actually be accurate, but nobody actually thinks God is invisible. :lol

GAF will be GAF, but anybody who thinks that the atheists are the mean-spirited intolerant ones in western culture is smoking some serious right-wing crack.

This is certainly true. I try to limit myself to the idea that, say, "some atheists are ludicrously annoying about being atheist" (a sentence that is also precisely as accurate if you sub in any religion or indeed any other life choice, hobby, etc.)

Usually I find atheist recruitment really irritating because it's like, dudes, the whole benefit of being atheist is that you don't have to do dumb shit like evangelize your philosophy to people who don't want to hear it, but this billboard is sensible and respectful outreach instead of being smarmy "haha I'm right and you're wrong" like those idiotic "We have to talk --God" billboards so I approve.

I remember there was a poll that said that they would rather have a lesbian black liberal muslim president then an Atheist one.

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

 

[Extollere]

Becoming non-religious is a slow, sad spiral into the debilitating mind frame that there is no point to anything.

Why follow rules?
Why have kids?
Why progress knowledge?
Why fuss over aesthetics?
What is one life among billions?

Ultimately, everyone is going to be eaten by maggots.

Used to think this. Once I lost my religion I ultimately found more meaning, and more enthusiasm for life in general. Not to mention more motivation to do things and more happiness for being alive and having what I do.

 

[onipex]

Used to think this. Once I lost my religion I ultimately found more meaning, and more enthusiasm for life in general. Not to mention more motivation to do things and more happiness for being alive and having what I do.

Funny, that's how I felt once I became really religious.

 

[Alucrid]

This is certainly true. I try to limit myself to the idea that, say, "some atheists are ludicrously annoying about being atheist" (a sentence that is also precisely as accurate if you sub in any religion or indeed any other life choice, hobby, etc.)

Usually I find atheist recruitment really irritating because it's like, dudes, the whole benefit of being atheist is that you don't have to do dumb shit like evangelize your philosophy to people who don't want to hear it, but this billboard is sensible and respectful outreach instead of being smarmy "haha I'm right and you're wrong" like those idiotic "We have to talk --God" billboards so I approve.!

Like the Church of Atheism. What the hell is up with that. :lol

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Used to think this. Once I lost my religion I ultimately found more meaning, and more enthusiasm for life in general. Not to mention more motivation to do things and more happiness for being alive and having what I do.

I would be interested to hear about how you found more meaning and happiness in life outside of religion.

 

[John Dunbar]

I would be interested to hear about how you found more meaning and happiness in life outside of religion.

yeah, me too. i've been an atheist for as long as i can remember and i see life as nothing but a cold, empty void.

 

[szaromir]

I've got to say, I hate it when atheist use "scientific" arguments to ridicule religions.

 

[speculawyer]

I've got to say, I hate it when atheist use "scientific" arguments to ridicule religions.

Why? I think it is awesome. Facts, science, and logic should always trump superstition. I'm not saying science should be used to wipe out religion. But it is complete great for disputing stupid thoughts like the earth was created 6000 years ago.

 

[speculawyer]

I would be interested to hear about how you found more meaning and happiness in life outside of religion.

Well, you have to create your own meaning & joy. Family, hobbies, charity, etc.

Honestly, I wish I could believe in some magic all-powerful father figure that will give me ever-lasting life. It would make things easier. But I can't. It just makes no sense. I'd like to believe in Santa Claus but believing in him would not magically get me Christmas presents.

 

[Kipz]

I've got to say, I hate it when atheist use "scientific" arguments to ridicule religions.

Yeah, I hate when people let silly things like "facts" and "evidence" get in the way of faith.

 

[szaromir]

Why? I think it is awesome. Facts, science, and logic should always trump superstition. I'm not saying science should be used to wipe out religion. But it is complete great for disputing stupid thoughts like the earth was created 6000 years ago.

Believing and stating that Earth exists for 6000 years is a sign of idiocy, not religion (or Christianity). The way religion is set up, you can't prove or disprove God's existence. And science can't prove it or disprove it, either. It's all about each person's faith, science has nothing to do with it, that's why I hate atheists doing it.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I've got to say, I hate it when atheist use "scientific" arguments to ridicule religions.

What are you supposed to counter superstition with? More superstition?

 

[NomarTyme]

My parents weren't really religious at all. Had to work all day, but they do pray to Buddha. For me I haven't step inside a church ever, unless going to a temple counts.

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

I've got to say, I hate it when atheist use "scientific" arguments to ridicule religions.

me too; facts and evidence should never get in the way of bronze age myths after all!