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[Jimmy_liv]

Talk about downplaying your own product. It seems like Microsoft has well and truly admitted they've failed to sell consoles so they're now brute forcing their way into the living room. All the acquisitions make sense now.

I have a Amazon Fire stick, but never owned an Xbox because their content just isn't up my street. But with all their acquisitions; if their exclusive stuff ends up being decent, then I may consider it.

Been the strategy for this entire gen. Why are you pretending this is new

Clearly fake mock shock.

 

[Ozriel]

I know this is a bit off topic but the other thread is kinda dead and I need confirmation.

Is this true?

If true I’ll buy a Series X in a heartbeat.

Silly fanboy nonsense. There’s no PS3 emulator yet on Xbox dev mode.

 

[RedC]

I know this is a bit off topic but the other thread is kinda dead and I need confirmation.

Is this true?

If true I’ll buy a Series X in a heartbeat.

It's not true yet, however, the emulation scene has been reinvigorated on Xbox Series X|S since Mesa has been adapted to UWP which allows Vulkan and Open GL to run atop DirectX12 and has opened the floodgates on more things potentially getting ported including RPCS3 (PS3 emulator).

 

[solidus12]

It's not true yet, however, the emulation scene has been reinvigorated on Xbox Series X|S since Mesa has been adapted to UWP which allows Vulkan and Open GL to run atop DirectX12 and has opened the floodgates on more things potentially getting ported including RPCS3 (PS3 emulator).

Ok, thank you for clarifying that.

 

[Dick Jones]

I know this is a bit off topic but the other thread is kinda dead and I need confirmation.

Is this true?

If true I’ll buy a Series X in a heartbeat.

 

[King Dazzar]

Again dude, not sure you've used these devices in person or seen comparisons, but they're not effectively designed products and benchmarks alone are not evidence of solid performance.

If anything they're marginally better than the sticks now with the 3rd gen cubes, but still not worth it in my book.

This is the solid performance rating I award you:

Hey at least I took you from:

The cube is slower than the fire stick...

begrudgingly, kicking and screaming to:

they're marginally better than the sticks now with the 3rd gen cubes

 

[Kataploom]

None of those services are available in my country, if they're gonna the future, well that future seems pretty far far away from now

 

[Fess]

What people don't realize is that Xbox is pivoting here as Nintendo pivoted. And similarly, they're pivoting towards their strength.

They acknowledged they weren't going to outconsole Sony and Nintendo. That's a quote from Phil (brushed off for reasons).

Microsoft knows that they're early to the market on cloud, but that cloud is likely the future. Sony realizes this as well and they're focusing more on the backend. They've yet to go all in. Cloud streaming is on PC, but not Mac, iOS, Android, SmartTV, PS Portal. I think PS Portal will be the first to get PS5 streaming, because Sony wants more control over your streaming experience, i.e. to buy a PlayStation product. I think we'll see PS streaming via Android, since Sony's strategy is clearly so Android focused. PS Portal runs on Android and Sony TVs run on Android TV.

Again, the only difference is Sony is taking their time, while Microsoft is clearly making a strong pivot because they've already acknowledged that their hardware sales are in decline.

Microsoft isn't selling enough hardware, software, or subscriptions to justify staying on course.

I think people realize more than they say. It’s just a heated subject to see console gaming get unlocked from consoles.

To be brutally honest this is the most likely future no matter what people here want. I see no other way forward. And it’s not a Xbox thing, it’s the whole industry. And for those who now start to click the laugh emoji as usual. This isn’t something me or likely anyone here actually desire. It’ll no doubt be bad for most of us. Worse than people think even. But it’ll still happen. And us graying core gamer dinosaurs moaning on discussion boards aren’t the main target audience anymore.

MS is aggressive here because their brand is dying. Sony is in no rush but they’ll be there as well carving out their piece of this cake like everybody else.

And eventually the walls will go up again, on launchers and subscription services, and this is when the real dark era begins. I’m 100% sure that they’ll pull games from Steam to get their walled garden in full effect, it’ll be like they did early on Geforce Now, poof gone. There will be timed launcher exclusives as well. People thinking we’ll have some day 1 multiplat kumbaya future haven’t thought much about this. It’ll be like it used to be, only worse. But we won’t have to buy $500 plastic box every 7 year to run a new launcher.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Anybody have any word on what Phil said about making all your purchased Xbox games work on the cloud/gamepass?
He said July I believe. Soon?

They promised 2022 for that lol. Just one of many "promises" by them to string people along.

Xbox is Building the Gaming Platform for the Next 20 Years - Xbox Wire

This Sunday, at the Xbox & Bethesda Games Showcase, we’ll be giving our fans a closer look at an amazing line-up of games coming to Xbox, PC, and cloud. As we prepare to pull back the curtain on the games to come, we also wanted to share some updates on how you’ll be able to […]

news.xbox.com

 

[Ozriel]

They promised 2022 for that lol. Just one of many "promises" by them to string people along.

Xbox is Building the Gaming Platform for the Next 20 Years - Xbox Wire

This Sunday, at the Xbox & Bethesda Games Showcase, we’ll be giving our fans a closer look at an amazing line-up of games coming to Xbox, PC, and cloud. As we prepare to pull back the curtain on the games to come, we also wanted to share some updates on how you’ll be able to […]

news.xbox.com

Either you really didn’t read what you shared, or there’s a comprehension gap. Because there’s nothing there that promises all purchased games playable via cloud streaming in 2022.

 

[ShirAhava]

Is this USA only? There is no sign of any app on my Firestick in UK.

EDIT: Also seems to be new 2023 models only - I have original Firestick 4K Max from 2021 so that's a no go.

I have the 2021 4K Max also that really sucks esp since the 2021 4K Max has the exact same CPU/GPU as the newest model

The 2023 just has better wifi, bluetooth and more storage but then again the bluetooth on the 2021 model is really bad so maybe thats why

 

[King Dazzar]

I think people realize more than they say. It’s just a heated subject to see console gaming get unlocked from consoles.

To be brutally honest this is the most likely future no matter what people here want. I see no other way forward. And it’s not a Xbox thing, it’s the whole industry. And for those who now start to click the laugh emoji as usual. This isn’t something me or likely anyone here actually desire. It’ll no doubt be bad for most of us. Worse than people think even. But it’ll still happen. And us graying core gamer dinosaurs moaning on discussion boards aren’t the main target audience anymore.

MS is aggressive here because their brand is dying. Sony is in no rush but they’ll be there as well carving out their piece of this cake like everybody else.

And eventually the walls will go up again, on launchers and subscription services, and this is when the real dark era begins. I’m 100% sure that they’ll pull games from Steam to get their walled garden in full effect, it’ll be like they did early on Geforce Now, poof gone. There will be timed launcher exclusives as well. People thinking we’ll have some day 1 multiplat kumbaya future haven’t thought much about this. It’ll be like it used to be, only worse. But we won’t have to buy $500 plastic box every 7 year to run a new launcher.

Remember even now some games even on console can touch 4k 120fps. And on PC, some users want over 200 fps. For me it's going to have to be a stream capable of superb latency, 7.1 lossless audio, consistent locked framerates/frametimes, full high nit HDR meta data, native 4k equivalent and up to 120fps. Whilst also communicating all of the full dual sense features, with no latency. AND do it reliably. My last go at Xbox cloud was a million miles away from that. PlayStation, Nintendo and PC hardware aint going anywhere for many, many years. Stick your toe in and dabble, sure, why not. But its a distraction for me and I'm sure many others for multiple gens yet.

 

[T-Cake]

I have the 2021 4K Max also that really sucks esp since the 2021 4K Max has the exact same CPU/GPU as the newest model

The 2023 just has better wifi, bluetooth and more storage but then again the bluetooth on the 2021 model is really bad so maybe thats why

Could there be a way of sideloading it?

 

[Fess]

Remember even now some games even on console can touch 4k 120fps. And on PC, some users want over 200 fps. For me it's going to have to be a stream capable of superb latency, 7.1 lossless audio, consistent locked framerates/frametimes, full high nit HDR meta data, native 4k equivalent and up to 120fps. Whilst also communicating all of the full dual sense features, with no latency. AND do it reliably. My last go at Xbox cloud was a million miles away from that. PlayStation, Nintendo and PC hardware aint going anywhere for many, many years. Stick your toe in and dabble, sure, why not. But its a distraction for me and I'm sure many others for multiple gens yet.

The future is already here, Geforce Now can do up to 240fps, 120fps if you want 4K. DF tested it and latency a couple years ago was less than 2 frames and same latency as local on Series X, assumingly better now. A 30fps console game is very likely going to look and play better if a high fps PC version maxed out is streamed over Geforce Now. Microsoft being behind doesn’t mean the whole industry is.

 

[Ozriel]

I have the 2021 4K Max also that really sucks esp since the 2021 4K Max has the exact same CPU/GPU as the newest model

The 2023 just has better wifi, bluetooth and more storage but then again the bluetooth on the 2021 model is really bad so maybe thats why

You’ll most probably be able to sideload it

Edit: Sideload instructions below. Works on some older fire tv sticks and the TV Cube

Xbox Game Pass app works on older Fire TV models running Fire OS 7 — Does not work on Google/Android TV

With the release of the new Xbox app for Fire TV, Microsoft has chosen to only support the two newest Fire TV Stick models released in 2023, which are the 2nd-gen Fire TV Stick 4K and the 2nd-gen Fire TV Stick 4K Max.

www.aftvnews.com

 

[King Dazzar]

The future is already here, Geforce Now can do up to 240fps, 120fps if you want 4K. DF tested it and latency a couple years ago was less than 2 frames and same latency as local on Series X, assumingly better now. A 30fps console game is very likely going to look and play better if a high fps PC version maxed out is streamed over Geforce Now. Microsoft being behind doesn’t mean the whole industry is.

Yeah I hear good things about GeForce Now. So if its been good for at least a couple of years, ask yourself, why haven't all PC players abandoned their hardware and just streaming all their games? I would have thought some of my points hold true. And I'd imagine many want to configure their games beyond what the stream can provide.

But hey ask the question of PC gamers with a topic. Why arent they all selling their 4090's and streaming. Or if on old PC's, why arent they just streaming. I'd be interested to know.

 

[Clintizzle]

Xbox: The Burger King of fine cuisine gaming.

Burger King is my favorite!

This ad was pretty good to be honest. Not targeted at 40-50 years old on NeoGaf obviously.

 

[King Dazzar]

Burger King is my favorite!

This ad was pretty good to be honest. Not targeted at 40-50 years old on NeoGaf obviously.

Hey we all have the odd bit of fast food every now and then. There's a an audience for it I have no doubt. Just as Burger King sell loads of burgers...

 

[Topher]

Yeah I hear good things about GeForce Now. So if its been good for at least a couple of years, ask yourself, why haven't all PC players abandoned their hardware and just streaming all their games? I would have thought some of my points hold true. And I'd imagine many want to configure their games beyond what the stream can provide.

But hey ask the question of PC gamers with a topic. Why arent they all selling their 4090's and streaming. Or if on old PC's, why arent they just streaming. I'd be interested to know.

Lots of reasons...

1) Streaming performance/latency varies by location. DF acknowledged that their tests are anecdotal. GFN is good, but you will still notice the latency in some games.
2) The vast majority of games are not available for streaming
3) Queues and time limits are a thing. I don't want to have to wait for opening or have to stop playing to give someone else a turn.
4) GFN is just renting a PC and it costs $200 a year for the best experience. That's $1000 after five years and at the end there is nothing to show for it whereas I will have a PC I can sell to someone else

 

[Moriarty1889]

Xbox under Phil Spencer are fucking idiots and deserve to tank. This is beyond pitiful.

 

[Ozriel]

Xbox under Phil Spencer are fucking idiots and deserve to tank. This is beyond pitiful.

Giving people options for cloud streaming on a very popular mainstream streaming device is ‘beyond pitiful’?

 

[King Dazzar]

Lots of reasons...

1) Streaming performance/latency varies by location. DF acknowledged that their tests are anecdotal. GFN is good, but you will still notice the latency in some games.
2) The vast majority of games are not available for streaming
3) Queues and time limits are a thing. I don't want to have to wait for opening or have to stop playing to give someone else a turn.
4) GFN is just renting a PC and it costs $200 a year for the best experience. That's $1000 after five years and at the end there is nothing to show for it whereas I will have a PC I can sell to someone else

Interesting. A couple of those I expected. But 3 is a definite WTF moment for me. One of the main issues for PC's I would have thought would be the inability to tweak the game to how you like. No mods etc.

I expect by the time streaming is the primary way to game and there is no longer a PlayStation or Nintendo, or people gaming on PC hardware, I'll be using a zimmer frame. I'll be so old, people will call out my name "Dazzar" and I'll be like, who's that?

 

[Topher]

Interesting. A couple of those I expected. But 3 is a definite WTF moment for me. One of the main issues for PC's I would have thought would be the inability to tweak the game to how you like. No mods etc.

I expect by the time streaming is the primary way to game and there is no longer a PlayStation or Nintendo, or people gaming on PC hardware, I'll be using a zimmer frame. I'll be so old, people will call out my name "Dazzar" and I'll be like, who's that?

Yeah......no mods/tweaks is another I didn't think of. lol....what's a "zimmer frame"?

 

[King Dazzar]

Yeah......no mods/tweaks is another I didn't think of. lol....what's a "zimmer frame"?

So for gamers like you and I:

And for Burger King Gamers:

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

 

[Goalus]

"have no fear"?... darling, people have disgust, rejection, apathy.

I know that feeling all too well, due to prolonged exposure to Sony products in this forum.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I know that feeling all too well, due to prolonged exposure to Sony products in this forum.

how is that even possible?

 

[Goalus]

how is that even possible?

When I read your post, it suddenly became clear to me. It was magical.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Not a great ad.

I'm not sure why they didn't just say "you loved watching Fallout, now play Fallout in the same place." Or something like that.

Yep, there was very little gaming in that advert. Marketing staff just overdo their work sometimes. Clean and simple if my flavour of marketing thanks.

 

[BearNecessity]

Sideloaded it into my 2021 4K max and it works perfectly.

Slight inpuy delay but not enough to make hollow knight or brotato unplayable. Games like celeste might be a hit harder though.

 

[Fess]

Yeah I hear good things about GeForce Now. So if its been good for at least a couple of years, ask yourself, why haven't all PC players abandoned their hardware and just streaming all their games? I would have thought some of my points hold true. And I'd imagine many want to configure their games beyond what the stream can provide.

But hey ask the question of PC gamers with a topic. Why arent they all selling their 4090's and streaming. Or if on old PC's, why arent they just streaming. I'd be interested to know.

Local is still better. And we can still afford it. The industry is going to evolve off local hardware in a natural way, I expect a big PC launcher move first when consoles are digital platforms accessed on PC, then at some point I simply expect the cost to be too high to beat server hardware and the streaming quality will be seen as good enough to just pay a subscription instead. It’ll take years but not generations. I usually say a decade when talking about this.

 

[Moriarty1889]

Giving people options for cloud streaming on a very popular mainstream streaming device is ‘beyond pitiful’?

The lengths MS goes to in order to make the Xbox console become less relevant IS beyond pitiful.

 

[Ozriel]

The lengths MS goes to in order to make the Xbox console become less relevant IS beyond pitiful.

Unless you’ve been living under a rock or in cryo sleep, they’ve been pushing access to Xbox first party software on PC day 1since, what, 2017?
They’ve been pushing for GamePass on XCloud before the gen even stated.

Their goal is to make money from hardware and software and subscriptions. It’s their business model, announced ages ago. How are you this unaware?

 

[cyberheater]

Sideloaded it into my 2021 4K max and it works perfectly.

Slight inpuy delay but not enough to make hollow knight or brotato unplayable. Games like celeste might be a hit harder though.

Worked on my Cube. Input lag is pretty bad but that's because of my ISP.

EDIT: Tried it on the Cube downstairs that's got a wired connection and the input lag is a lot better. Actually useable.

 

[King Dazzar]

Local is still better. And we can still afford it. The industry is going to evolve off local hardware in a natural way, I expect a big PC launcher move first when consoles are digital platforms accessed on PC, then at some point I simply expect the cost to be too high to beat server hardware and the streaming quality will be seen as good enough to just pay a subscription instead. It’ll take years but not generations. I usually say a decade when talking about this.

I reckon in a decade, it will be an option that more people use, but there will still be a lot of people using dedicated hardware. And people will still be looking forward to a PS7.

Separate thought. I wonder how much power will be required from the server side of things to provide the quality. For example for this Fire TV app. How much power is required server side per user? Is it equivalent to having a series S for every single person using it?

 

[Moriarty1889]

Unless you’ve been living under a rock or in cryo sleep, they’ve been pushing access to Xbox first party software on PC day 1since, what, 2017?
They’ve been pushing for GamePass on XCloud before the gen even stated.

Their goal is to make money from hardware and software and subscriptions. It’s their business model, announced ages ago. How are you this unaware?

Yes I am fully aware of how that emphasis has managed to completely stagnate sales and growth of the core Xbox console. Thank you for pointing out the obvious. Good day.

 

[Fess]

And people will still be looking forward to a PS7.

I debated in another thread that I would’ve rather seen 5 year generations, with PS6 in 2025 instead of a PS5Pro with OG PS5 holding things back like Series S with X. In such a scenario PS7 would’ve arrived 2030. That I can see happen.

But the general consensus was that 8 year generations was ”good” with PS5Pro arriving in 2024. This means PS6 in 2028, PS6Pro in 2032, and then PS7 in 2036.
That I can’t see happen.

 

[King Dazzar]

I debated in another thread that I would’ve rather seen 5 year generations, with PS6 in 2025 instead of a PS5Pro with OG PS5 holding things back like Series S with X. In such a scenario PS7 would’ve arrived 2030. That I can see happen.

But the general consensus was that 8 year generations was ”good” with PS5Pro arriving in 2024. This means PS6 in 2028, PS6Pro in 2032, and then PS7 in 2036.
That I can’t see happen.

Well, I'm happy to eat my hat if there is no PlayStation in 2036.

 

[Fess]

Well, I'm happy to eat my hat if there is no PlayStation in 2036.

Playstation ain’t going away, the platform is evolving. Things are moving fast and 2036 is 12 years away. I think few fans will be concerned when Sony has a Playstation storefront and launcher on PC with a PS overlay and trophies and exclusives not on Steam.

 

[Sushi_Combo]

Playstation ain’t going away, the platform is evolving. Things are moving fast and 2036 is 12 years away. I think few fans will be concerned when Sony has a Playstation storefront and launcher on PC with a PS overlay and trophies and exclusives not on Steam.

As someone who vastly prefers the trophy system vs steam achievements, I'd actually move to the Ps Launcher. Sure there are other folks out there who'd do the same.

 

[Fess]

As someone who vastly prefers the trophy system vs steam achievements, I'd actually move to the Ps Launcher. Sure there are other folks out there who'd do the same.

Yeah I would have no issues either. I’ve moved to PC now and I rather start a launcher than buy a plastic box just to run a launcher.
They just need to have a good big picture mode so I don’t have to use mouse and keyboard.

 

[King Dazzar]

Playstation ain’t going away, the platform is evolving. Things are moving fast and 2036 is 12 years away. I think few fans will be concerned when Sony has a Playstation storefront and launcher on PC with a PS overlay and trophies and exclusives not on Steam.

Sure but that's fairly obvious, but that's different from there being no console and streaming only. In addition to there not being a PS7.

 

[King Dazzar]

As someone who vastly prefers the trophy system vs steam achievements, I'd actually move to the Ps Launcher. Sure there are other folks out there who'd do the same.

I suspect for many it wont be one or the other. And likely people will have games from multiple stores. As I'm sure many do now.

 

[Fess]

Sure but that's fairly obvious, but that's different from there being no console and streaming only. In addition to there not being a PS7.

Well I just don’t think there will be a physical box with locked hardware like we have today running games locally in 2036.
I’d stretch it to that there might be a server based Playstation called PS7. But I think they’ll just call it Playstation and it’ll keep evolving. Maybe they number it when there is a PC 2

 

[Topher]

As someone who vastly prefers the trophy system vs steam achievements, I'd actually move to the Ps Launcher. Sure there are other folks out there who'd do the same.

Yeah, same here. I had a blast trophy hunting in Ghost of Tsushima on PC.

 

[King Dazzar]

Well I just don’t think there will be a physical box with locked hardware like we have today running games locally in 2036.
I’d stretch it to that there might be a server based Playstation called PS7. But I think they’ll just call it Playstation and it’ll keep evolving. Maybe they number it when there is a PC 2

Set your alarm for 2036. I dont see it. I can see physical games maybe gone on Sony devices, but still there on Nintendo. And lots of streaming options/apps from multiple publishers. But 100% streaming only with no local hardware. I'm just not there.

As I mentioned further up, I'd be interested to know what resource is required to power Xcloud/Geforce Now today per user... i.e does each user for Xcloud use the equivalent of a series s server side etc.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

Not having a cheap streaming only tier for GP is a fail.
It's what firestick and steam deck could use.

 

[SteadyEvo]

If you're subscribing to GamePass you aren't buying anything anyway, just renting.

Life itself is a rental. The human body, all material things accumulated are left behind when life ends.

Renting games from Gamepass isn’t a big deal

 

[Nydius]

Life itself is a rental. The human body, all material things accumulated are left behind when life ends.

Renting games from Gamepass isn’t a big deal

"It's fine because you can't take it with you when you die" is some top tier, USDA Grade-A, spin.

 

[Fess]

As I mentioned further up, I'd be interested to know what resource is required to power Xcloud/Geforce Now today per user... i.e does each user for Xcloud use the equivalent of a series s server side etc.

I think Xbox cloud are using server blades with Series X hardware now, assumingly one per user. No idea what Geforce Now are using, I think their servers are unique and not customer hardware but based on their latest GPU architectures.