Now that Lisa Su's video dropped today, I can share what I know about next gen "Xbox" since last June.
- Thread starter Proelite
- Start date
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
Xbox has sucked for over a decade, Microsoft truly pissed away whatever they had going with it.
The only thing Microsoft has left is a few individual games and ips that look interesting (but fewer and fewer of those as time goes on), "Xbox" has any sort of specific ecosystem is truly who cares? It's Nintendo versus Playstation.
It's a meaningless, dead brand.
The only thing Microsoft has left is a few individual games and ips that look interesting (but fewer and fewer of those as time goes on), "Xbox" has any sort of specific ecosystem is truly who cares? It's Nintendo versus Playstation.
It's a meaningless, dead brand.
PauloRoberto
Member
SO pretty much basically... MS lost the console market and will try to compete at the same time on the console market, portable pc market (which is peanuts and crowded at the same time) and pc market.. when everyone that knows these markets knows that WINDOWS is the root problem... of course it will work, why the heck not ?! :-D
bitbydeath
Member
Valve don't have a choice.
You're completely lost , why wouldn't they continue to have Steam on Windows devices?
The thing is the PC had basically become Steam for gaming but now Xbox will be front & center
Topher
Identifies as young
So where's the war?
Perhaps, but in any case, including the store of a company you are supposedly at war with makes little sense.
Last edited:
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Why would Valve fight it anyway? MS isn't getting a cut of the 30% from that store. If MS want to sell Steam games without getting paid for it Steam would not have an issue. MS is basically running a charity at this point, if the starting post is true that they are not making money from the hardware AND not making money from the software because of steam.
bitbydeath
Member
I think MS are pulling out of consoles to fight that front. The talk of an upcoming Steam OS for desktops would have frightened them. (I think)
bitbydeath
Member
They wouldn't as it doesn't change anything for them.
You know exactly what I said because you quoted then deleted it .
They will be fighting for market share
Topher
Identifies as young
I think they know they can't fight Valve so they are not even trying. And MS has little to lose here, unlike with consoles. They are off-loading everything to other companies.
mrBarrelNut
Member
PCs that people buy are (mostly) laptops. Not upgradeable.
If this is true, then every laptop (and desktops also of couse!) with these APUs are also capable to run Xbox games natively.
Between these APU devices promoting xbox store/MS subs vs native windows/SteamOS devices being people choosing to install steam. It's certainly going to be a choice for somebody who might have just went regular PC and gone for steam. It's a bit like the mobile OS war in that regard. There are different Android stores you can install but what's default front and centre and tied to other parts of the "ecosystem" functions? I'm more interested in knowing what "their own custom software" means but I suspect it's not the OS itself based purely on the vertical antitrust dilemma mentioned.
If I had to guess, they're trying to recreate the Android moment of consoles. The way to get everybody off other OS like symbian, Maemo, Windows Mobile etc was to create an OS for OEMs, have your services integrated deeply in the OS with reference hardware and slowly win marketshare over other devices but pushing your services (store, sub, userdata, etc).
Last edited:
DeltaPolarBear
Member
What? Valve just gained market share by being listed on Xbox for free. In case you missed it, Microsoft makes 0 dollars from Steam sales of 3rd party games, and still pays Valve 30% for 1st party steam games. Microsoft turned their console into a Steam Box while not getting anything out of it.
Right now i see a piece of hardware that doesn't make any money. Not sold at a profit for Microsoft, runs old games that customers already bought, and allow you to buy games from Steam where MS doesn't get paid for. MS might be lucky if the customer pay for Gamepass, but I doubt that compensates for everything else.
It just seems a lot of work with no gain. A complete lack of an actual business plan.
1. Sell console at no profit
2. Put steam on it so software sales earn nothing.
3. ???
4. Profit?
What will be the point of doing all this anyway? And no, "make xbox customers happy" is not a business plan.
Last edited:
Unknown Soldier
Member
I mean if it's just a slightly custom PC that can run the Xbox OS and therefore support BC on Xbox console games then it will have a niche for people who want to preserve their Xbox game libraries
Everyone else will just play on gaming PC and Sony and Nintendo consoles like they are doing now already
Everyone else will just play on gaming PC and Sony and Nintendo consoles like they are doing now already
Last edited:
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Yeah I think you're right. Just half heartedly screwing around with the desktop linux mode on Steam Deck showed me how easy it would be to ditch windows for a less bloated and spyware ridden alternative. Valve has like 150M MAUs. If 20% of them left Windows behind that is less data to harvest and sell. Only thing stopping me from doing it now is multiplayer games with anticheat incompatible with Linux. Proton is brilliant.
Topher
Identifies as young
Fighting for market share by making a point of including the competition's store on these "Xbox" devices?
Last edited:
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Kacho
Member
They technically are fighting for market share with hardware, but Gabe doesn't give a single fuck. He was saying the more the merrier a few months ago.
The hardware would be sold at a profit by the OEM much like mobiles. The OS and hardware reference design will be a way for MS to get people to sign up for a MS account and get them tied to the "MS ecosystem". Could have the default store as xbox, using their services might even mandate it, have data collection for ads, gamepass "preinstalled" etc. People can currently use other stores like the Samsung App store but people usually stick with the default Play store on the device because it works across devices. They're trying to recreate Android and it all depends on if people buy into their ecosystem or just install and stick with steam.
Last edited:
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Yep, literally what Gabe wants. Normally that sort of thing is done with a negotiated profit sharing arrangement. But in this case Xbox is giving it away.
Who wouldn't stick with Steam?
It's where much of my games are, and chances are very good that it would be a better store than what MS is selling consider how bad the MS store on PC is run. To assume that MS can attract Steam customer with better service is... laughable. Because they already tried that twice and failed both times.
Last edited:
Topher
Identifies as young
Yeah....Gabe has no skin in this. That's the benefit of not having to answer to stockholders.
Proelite
Member
Xbox consoles the new ship of Theseus. How many parts of a console can you remove and still call it an xbox console?
More like xbox inside
Only part of a console inside that matters and and isn't an off the shelf / commodity part is the chip.
Last edited:
Topher
Identifies as young
Not sure I'm following this. A person cannot buy the motherboard with the embedded ram/ssd/etc that is used in PlayStation or Xbox.
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.001
Microsoft is going after the of crowd
asdasdasdbb
Member
I think OP is full of it... but there is potential in such a scheme.
The point would be to get people to sign up for GP without having to lose money on the hardware. And maybe kill the third party GAAS revenue stream on Playstation, which is basically PS's main source of revenue right now.
The point would be to get people to sign up for GP without having to lose money on the hardware. And maybe kill the third party GAAS revenue stream on Playstation, which is basically PS's main source of revenue right now.
Last edited:
bitbydeath
Member
They're attempting to move their Xbox userbase over to PC. That I would say is them trying.
How that plays out is another matter.
Proelite
Member
Yes but another company and OEM could in the past.
mitch1971
Member
Since writing the post, he's had to sign an NDA to not divulge he's an NDA insider.
Topher
Identifies as young
Eh....the alternative is abandoning the userbase altogether. In a way, this feels like Microsoft's exit strategy from consoles.
Really? Didn't know that
Last edited:
Proelite
Member
Did you watch the Lisa Su video lol.
She literally said Xbox and AMD are making APUs for handheld, consoles, PCs etc that has Xbox BC.
Last edited:
Proelite
Member
GDDR6 modules from Samsung, SSD chips from Toshiba, commodity South Bridge chips (Xbox).
Oh you talking about the entire mobo.
That's very easy for an OEM to make.
Last edited:
Topher
Identifies as young
Oh....you were talking about the individual components that are used in the motherboard assembly? Ok.....I'm with you now.
bitbydeath
Member
Maybe, the timing could be coincidental.
balls of snow
Member
Interesting times. Wonder if Valve will even bother doing an in house Steamdeck 2 or contract a hardware vendor to do it. Maybe with a dual boot setup already baked in.
Last edited:
I assume those who mainly use MS services. It may become easier for some, especially those who buy very few games anyway or are new, to stick with the integrated MS services xcloud, xbox store, gamepass rather than hunt down and install another store that isn't integrated into the OS features as well. Most people do not like multiple stores and would stick with one for their collection. If MS has critical mass (enough people tied with their MS ecosystem and services) I don't think many will actively seek out steam on the devices. We will have to see if this succeeds or fails. I'm 50/50 on that. I personally will never buy an xbox again after the lesson I learnt from XB1.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
It is the analogy of a broken marriage trying to "fix" the relationship by having a baby (spending 100B). Now they (MS/XBOX) have a 20K division that is bleeding money....what is the point of all this?
For consumers to use the MS´s Gaming Store. Thats it.
i just wonder how much leeway is MS going to give Xbox in this matter, and IF/When Xbox will shift to evil MS in order to make the money they deserve (in their mind)
reinking
Gold Member
I know that OP says OEMs will be able to add their own software but will these be locked to only running the new streamlined version of windows?
I do believe that this is Microsoft's move to stay relevant in hardware but I have to ask, what is the advantage of this APU for me as a gamer? Is it just backward compatibility? MS has already announced that future Xbox games will be play anywhere so I will not need a special Xbox APU to play them. Will these APUs run Xbox store versions of games more efficiently?
I am not saying this is a bad thing. I am excited to see how this new "pc" vision for Xbox is going to work. I am just trying to understand what the advantages of these new Xbox/Windows features are going to be for me as a gamer.
I do believe that this is Microsoft's move to stay relevant in hardware but I have to ask, what is the advantage of this APU for me as a gamer? Is it just backward compatibility? MS has already announced that future Xbox games will be play anywhere so I will not need a special Xbox APU to play them. Will these APUs run Xbox store versions of games more efficiently?
I am not saying this is a bad thing. I am excited to see how this new "pc" vision for Xbox is going to work. I am just trying to understand what the advantages of these new Xbox/Windows features are going to be for me as a gamer.
Proelite
Member
It'll be your only option for PC gaming handhelds and AMD based gaming APU laptops come 2026+.
It'll also be inside a sizeable fraction of pre-built gaming laptops and PCs.
Of course 1st party HW is the baseline specs wise.
Last edited:
sendit
Member
We all know the Steamdeck 2 or whatever Steam is brewing up will own this space.
Last edited:
Miyazaki’s Slave
Gold Member
At least the info is out there. Folks can start looking at Xbox/MS's content first strategy Read: the years of content they have from their purchases over the last few years...in my case I already have that stuff and don't need to pay for a sub to play it.
I personally do not think Valve is on board unless Gabe is playing some 4d chess...setting up Steam OS to be a huge competitor to whatever OS Xbox/MS is going to try to shove on devices then just Valve to MS (which again...I don't see happening).
If they lock BC behind their 1st party devices it will get them sales (this would be smart), but if they don't then the 3rd party hardware is going to be the way to go with how MS is handling the "no profit" approach.
I personally do not think Valve is on board unless Gabe is playing some 4d chess...setting up Steam OS to be a huge competitor to whatever OS Xbox/MS is going to try to shove on devices then just Valve to MS (which again...I don't see happening).
If they lock BC behind their 1st party devices it will get them sales (this would be smart), but if they don't then the 3rd party hardware is going to be the way to go with how MS is handling the "no profit" approach.
Last edited:
Proelite
Member
Valve will use the same APU but with the Xbox BC related bits disabled.
Orbital2060
Member
Doesnt matter if you call it a console or a PC. Fact is there is going to be a lot of devices out there that can play Xbox games, whether the person with the device intended to play games or not.
The console market is a matured market with a cap that is not big enough for a company like Microsoft to want to do business in. They want a billion people having access to an Xbox, and this is part of making that happen. They got all the IPs they wanted (as per Nadellas own statemen re: ABK), and now they are building a whole range of hardware that can channel the games that they make. So you can call it whatever you want, but its starting to look like any device with an AMD chip in it is going to be an Xbox. Like they been saying for a while.
The console market is a matured market with a cap that is not big enough for a company like Microsoft to want to do business in. They want a billion people having access to an Xbox, and this is part of making that happen. They got all the IPs they wanted (as per Nadellas own statemen re: ABK), and now they are building a whole range of hardware that can channel the games that they make. So you can call it whatever you want, but its starting to look like any device with an AMD chip in it is going to be an Xbox. Like they been saying for a while.
Kacho
Member
How you feeling about this, dude?
reinking
Gold Member
1 and 2 are more about what it does for AMD/Microsoft. I guess 3 works for me since it at least provides a baseline for gaming performance. Do we know if these will be locked to Windows? I would not think so.