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[Proelite]

1 and 2 are more about what it does for AMD/Microsoft. I guess 3 works for me since it at least provides a baseline for gaming performance. Do we know if these will be locked to Windows? I would not think so.

No the devices with these APUs whether 1st party or OEM won't have full on Windows where you can install hacks and viruses lol. K KeplerL2 mentioned this.

 

[reinking]

Doesnt matter if you call it a console or a PC. Fact is there is going to be a lot of devices out there that can play Xbox games, whether the person with the device intended to play games or not.

That is true today.

 

[hinch7]

These devices are not flying off the shelves. Steam deck only sold like 3 mil and others sold much worse. I don't see the appeal of low spec pcs.
Console might not be high end but by its nature, it allows for higher efficiency compared to its price.

I don't believe there is mass market for anything else than consoles and pcs. Especially not of this new hybrid is called Xbox. All m$ did in last 10 years is ruin physical gaming, exclusives pushing the market forward and gp created beggar market of fake gamers.

Real console and real pc. That's all I want

Idk.. a lower cost all in one small form factor PC without all the Windows bloat and nonsense is exactly what the market needs right now.

The PC market has been absolutely terrible the last couple years in terms of GPU advancements (outside flagship Nvidia), pricing and availability.

If Microsoft carried on with traditional console console it would be DOA.

 

[reinking]

No the devices with these APUs whether 1st party or OEM won't have full on Windows where you can install hacks and viruses lol.

My question is will they be locked to a specific OS, or will someone be able to install something like Steam OS? I would expect they will have a version of their OS included with the OEM spin but I am a bit concerned if the market gets flooded with "Xbox" only devices.

edited to clarify.

 

[mayham2199]

If I was stuck on Xbox this would potentially be enough to satisfy me and stick with the ecosystem.

It's not for me though. I don't need a million stores and all that. I want my trophies and everything in one ecosystem. Which is how most steam users feel as well so I don't see this as a growth opportunity for Xbox but a good way to keep what they have.

 

[mayham2199]

No the devices with these APUs whether 1st party or OEM won't have full on Windows where you can install hacks and viruses lol. K KeplerL2 mentioned this.

I don't get how they can install all steam games while avoiding all hacks at the same time. Something doesn't add up there.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I assume those who mainly use MS services. It may become easier for some, especially those who buy very few games anyway or are new, to stick with the integrated MS services xcloud, xbox store, gamepass rather than hunt down and install another store that isn't integrated into the OS features as well. Most people do not like multiple stores and would stick with one for their collection. If MS has critical mass (enough people tied with their MS ecosystem and services) I don't think many will actively seek out steam on the devices. We will have to see if this succeeds or fails. I'm 50/50 on that. I personally will never buy an xbox again after the lesson I learnt from XB1.

If Xbox has critical mass they wouldn't be releasing their games on PlayStation.

The fact is they do NOT have Critical Mass. So this is a bad plan you are suggesting.

 

[Proelite]

I don't get how they can install all steam games while avoiding all hacks at the same time. Something doesn't add up there.

You whitelist stores and their content.

 

[bitbydeath]

No the devices with these APUs whether 1st party or OEM won't have full on Windows where you can install hacks and viruses lol. K KeplerL2 mentioned this.

I wouldn't go that far. Rog Ally lets you download mods and such which can bring viruses / hacks.

I'd suggest looking toward that product for understanding what to expect.

 

[Punished Miku]

He really earned it.

 

[Three]

If Xbox has critical mass they wouldn't be releasing their games on PlayStation.

The fact is they do NOT have Critical Mass. So this is a bad plan you are suggesting.

Remember I'm not talking about the console or game sales here. I'm talking about their services across devices. Somebody who uses gamepass and xcloud to access games doesn't necessarily want another store where they don't know what's available on gamepass when shopping, which games they can access from their phone, etc. They usually stick with the default that is integrated well within the OS. I'm not sure they have it or not, I said "if". I don't even know whether what proelite is saying is true. I can only guess as to what they could reasonably do if they went down this OEM route.

 

[Sebastian1295]

For the love of everything holy can people stop lying out their ass and saying that consoles are just PC's. That shit is a lie and i'm sick of it being spread by the xbox fanboys/morons who love to spread propaganda.

 

[Proelite]

don't even know whether what proelite is saying is true. I can only guess as to what they could reasonably do if they went down this OEM route.

Did you not watch the Lisa Su video that I linked lol.

 

[Bernardougf]

And the cicle begins again...

 

[MayauMiao]

OEMs will add their own custom software, and also increase clocks, unlock disabled compute units, use more / faster memory, more and faster SSD, better cooling, and in the case of mobile devices, bigger battery, better displays (OLED). This so they can sell at a higher premium.

This just adds more complexity and fragmentation as well as more cost. Its going to fail.

 

[ProtoByte]

"Anyone cares?" Yes, clearly. considering the Steam Deck, ROG Ally, and Legion Go are flying off shelves

They really aren't. Steam Deck caps out at 4-5 million after 5 years. ROG Ally isn't even at a million iirc. Legion Go, lmao.

Normal people don't go outside with a bigass handheld to play Elder Scrolls on the bus.

 

[Proelite]

This just adds more complexity and fragmentation as well as more cost. Its going to fail.

Its the same APU and architecture set. If anything it removes complexity by reducing the number of AMD products that devs have to account for.

 

[Sebastian1295]

They really aren't. Steam Deck caps out at 4-5 million after 5 years. ROG Ally isn't even at a million iirc. Legion Go, lmao.

Normal people don't go outside with a bigass handheld to play Elder Scrolls on the bus.

Ya people don't give a damn about handhelds besides the switch. There's no marketplace for these big ass expensive handhelds. Smartphones have taken over the role of a handheld for everyday people.

 

[Proelite]

Ya people don't give a damn about handhelds besides the switch. There's no marketplace for these big ass expensive handhelds.

Why is PlayStation making one too lol.

 

[Three]

Did you not watch the Lisa Su video that I linked lol.

I've seen the video before. I'm referring to this claim:

"These APUs, along from be used in 1st party HW, will be sold to OEMs, without a profit, for them to use in place of the discontinued AMD gaming APU roadmap."

Lisa never mentions the business model. Never mentions that these are "without a profit". Deltapolarbear is questioning how they would make money like this, I'm spitballing about how this would work if what you say is true regarding that specific point.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Xbox "consoles" will be Xbox designed APUs for both handhelds and consoles that can run Xbox BC due to silicon support. The OS itself, which is already mostly Windows, can run Windows games with the right packages / extensions loaded, or runs Xbox title VM in an enlightened hypervisor. I'm not sure which approach it is yet, but the main point is that Xbox One, and series games need to run natively without a translation/emulation layer for legal reasons.

These APUs, along from be used in 1st party HW, will be sold to OEMs, without a profit, for them to use in place of the discontinued AMD gaming APU roadmap. Not profit is important to avoid potential vertical anti-trust issues.

OEMs will add their own custom software, and also increase clocks, unlock disabled compute units, use more / faster memory, more and faster SSD, better cooling, and in the case of mobile devices, bigger battery, better displays (OLED). This so they can sell at a higher premium.

It was interesting to read some of the OEM takes and abandoning HW takes.

If this is true than it is EXACTLY what I thought it was. Devs are already used to common PC libraries like Direct X and Xinput. The AMD APU becomes a common spec that all devs can target; so the end result is a platform that is very easy to develop games for.

They are actually turning "Xbox" into "Direct X, box."

 

[RedC]

How you feeling about this, dude?

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Why is PlayStation making one too lol.

I don't see PS6 handheld as anything but a rumor, the tech doesn't exist.

 

[Proelite]

I've seen the video before. I'm referring to this claim:

"These APUs, along from be used in 1st party HW, will be sold to OEMs, without a profit, for them to use in place of the discontinued AMD gaming APU roadmap."

Lisa never mentions the business model. Never mentions that these are "without a profit". Deltapolarbear is questioning how they would make money like this, I'm spitballing about how this would work if what you say is true regarding that specific point.

Who is not making money?

 

[GulfCoastZilla]

I know people want to downplay this but if I can hook this thing up to a TV without having to get a traditional PC and be able to play Xbox , Steam and by extension PlayStation games at a cheaper entry point that getting a whole new rig.

Then yeah this is made for me.

 

[Proelite]

I don't see PS6 handheld as anything but a rumor, the tech doesn't exist.

Its handheld that will have full compatibility with PS6+PS4? games but not with PS5 games.

 

[HRK69]

They really aren't. Steam Deck caps out at 4-5 million after 5 years. ROG Ally isn't even at a million iirc. Legion Go, lmao.

Normal people don't go outside with a bigass handheld to play Elder Scrolls on the bus.

Alright, guess I was off, clearly handhelds aren't taking over the world.

Still funny though that all these big brands are jumping in if no one actually wants them.

 

[Sebastian1295]

Why is PlayStation making one too lol.

It hasn't even been confirmed by anyone that they're making one, but if they do then at least they have a fighting chance because their brand is much stronger than the xbox brand 'ps portal sold extremely well'. I think it's a mistake if they make one too personally, but again it's a rumor with no substance behind it.

 

[Proelite]

It hasn't even been confirmed by anyone that they're making one, but if they do then at least they have a fighting chance because their brand is much stronger than the xbox brand 'ps portal sold extremely well'. I think it's a mistake if they make one too personally.

I think it's a no brainer as the core 10% of your user base that plays the most games will buy one.

 

[bitbydeath]

Alright, guess I was off, clearly handhelds aren't taking over the world.

Still funny though that all these big brands are jumping in if no one actually wants them.

They saw Switch sales and thought consumers were buying them for their portability.

 

[Proelite]

They saw Switch sales and thought consumers were buying them for their portability.

People didn't buy the Wii U for Nintendo's games either.

 

[Nydius]

The thing is the PC had basically become Steam for gaming but now Xbox will be front & center

They've been trying to push Xbox "front and center" since they integrated the Windows Store and Xbox companion app in Windows. People still overwhelmingly chose Steam.

If given the choice between Xbox/Windows Store or Steam on the same device, people have proven they will almost always pick Steam. No custom APU chip is going to change that unless it purposely blocks or otherwise hinders Steam access.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

Why is PlayStation making one too lol.

Because these companies realize companion devices are the future... psp and vita sold over 100 million combined but dev resources pretty much forced Sony and Nintendo out of the exclusive handheld market

 

[DForce]

People didn't buy the Wii U for Nintendo's games either.

The lineup for the Wii U was weak from the start.

Nintendo DS/3DS was putting out a better lineup and that's why it sold over 100M

 

[ZehDon]

So, the APU is the core, and everything else is variable... including the RAM? Is there a min-spec for these devices - must have at least 16gb RAM, SSD speed must be at least X, network must be at least X speed, etc.?

 

[Proelite]

If given the choice between Xbox/Windows Store or Steam on the same device, people have proven they will almost always pick Steam. No custom APU chip is going to change that unless it purposely blocks or otherwise hinders Steam access.

Yes but the thinking is that some portion of these users will become new Gamepass subbers.

 

[Jinxed]

lol wtf, I'll stick with a pc then

 

[Proelite]

So, the APU is the core, and everything else is variable... including the RAM? Is there a min-spec for these devices - must have at least 16gb RAM, SSD speed must be at least X, network must be at least X speed, etc.?

Min spec is probably series S BC for everything except for the ram. Would need more ram for the new OS and Series S has too little for next gen handhelds.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Yes but the thinking is that some portion of these users will become new Gamepass subbers.

talking about desperate measures.

 

[lastmessiah]

Xbox "consoles" will be Xbox designed APUs for both handhelds and consoles that can run Xbox BC due to silicon support. The OS itself, which is already mostly Windows, can run Windows games with the right packages / extensions loaded, or runs Xbox title VM in an enlightened hypervisor. I'm not sure which approach it is yet, but the main point is that Xbox One, and series games need to run natively without a translation/emulation layer for legal reasons.

These APUs, along from be used in 1st party HW, will be sold to OEMs, without a profit, for them to use in place of the discontinued AMD gaming APU roadmap. No profit for Xbox is important to avoid potential vertical anti-trust issues.

OEMs will add their own custom software, and also increase clocks, unlock disabled compute units, use more / faster memory, more and faster SSD, better cooling, and in the case of mobile devices, bigger battery, better displays (OLED). This so they can sell at a higher premium.

It was interesting to read some of the OEM takes and abandoning HW takes.

So... what does that make the ROG Ally X they just announced? Is that going to be separate thing from what you're describing here?

 

[Proelite]

So... what does that make the ROG Ally X they just announced? Is that going to be separate thing from what you're describing here?

That's just a PC gaming handheld that will have some of the parts of the new OS. Specifically the efficiency parts.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

"Anyone cares?" Yes, clearly. considering the Steam Deck, ROG Ally, and Legion Go are flying off shelves

People do care about flexible, console like gaming in different form factors. Calling it "just a PC with extra steps" ignores that the Steam Deck is literally that, and it's a hit

The difference is, when Valve does it, it's innovation. When Xbox does it, suddenly it's a problem? This isn't about logic, it's just PlayStation fans panicking that Xbox is actually doing something different

Bro the Switch 2 sold as many units in 3 days as the Steam Deck has sold in it's 3 years life time lmao

No one gives the tiniest shit about PC handhelds outside of a small niche of PC gamers

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

For the love of everything holy can people stop lying out their ass and saying that consoles are just PC's. That shit is a lie and i'm sick of it being spread by the xbox fanboys/morons who love to spread propaganda.

Define the difference for this xbox moron. Please. You're conflating a walled garden as a console differentiator in modern generations.

I consider "real consoles" long dead since SNES or N64 or Wii. Consoles nowadays all have online, games, apps, movies, browsers, an OS platform etc etc. The graphical difference or abilities are all shared with little difference these days beyond "grunt". Sounds pretty damn PC to me.

 

[DavidGzz]

Only on console forums are cheap, weak, walled garden PCs better than premium, stronk, PCs with multiple store fronts. Lol

 

[asdasdasdbb]

pretty much forced Sony and Nintendo out of the exclusive handheld market

Switch is really just a successor to the 3DS with the ability to play on a TV tacked on.

 

[BiohazardX95]

People here thinking Xbox brand can compete with real pcs and other handhelds

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Switch is really just a successor to the 3DS with the ability to play on a TV tacked on.

SW is the consolidation of Nintendo´s home console and handheld market.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Come on, it was more than a bus width change. Its the same architecture sure, but its not a PC. Its a built for purpose APU that would perform poorly as a PC.

But I get the feeling you are one of these 'I must win the argument type of people' no nuance required or desired.

Its GDDR6 with much lower bus width and no Zen 2 cache, really fucking easy to see where it capped the CPU. GPU is ripped/binned out. Still they have all the proof that there's nothing special, all instructions work on these CPUs the same as a PC because it IS X86.

The choice of GDDR6 with half the ICs is the worst mix for a CPU battle against PC. CPUs love low latency and Zen 2 with low cache above all requires lowest latency possible.

Same for the Durango but this one had GPU.



Again, limitations because AMD is not selling an Xbox for PC platform, they reuse the chipsets, motherboard limitation from AMD is almost 1/5 the bandwidth and without access to GPU cache, it basically gimps the GPU so much that its basically only useful as a CPU, much like the Series X APU to PC.

That kind of gap would not exist on a "console" from Microsoft that runs windows. I'm not sure here what you don't understand. They do not need to gimp the APU to be PC windows, its just the platform AMD sells this APU on is not meant to be a cheap xbox PC.

Consoles are no more away from PC than PC handhelds with AMD APUs.

Oh we have Astrock BC-250 PS5 APU





Turning binned PS5 APUs that were retrofit for mining to cheap PC gaming with just amateur skills

But do dig up chips and cheese article, do so please.

 

[drganon]

Xbox finding new and innovative ways to fail.

 

[Sebastian1295]

Define the difference for this xbox moron. Please. You're conflating a walled garden as a console differentiator in modern generations.

I consider "real consoles" long dead since SNES or N64 or Wii. Consoles nowadays all have online, games, apps, movies, browsers, an OS platform etc etc. The graphical difference or abilities are all shared with little difference these days beyond "grunt". Sounds pretty damn PC to me.

Can i go on my ps5 right now and download windows or steam? Can i take the parts out of my ps5 right now and replace them with better ones such as a better cpu, better gpu, more ram etc? Are games on my ps5 all compatible with a mouse and keyboard and is the playstation O.S built with a keyboard and mouse in mind?


Can i download roms onto my ps5 that play nes, snes, n64, sega genesis etc games on it? Does every ps5 game have mods that i can download onto them? Can i go onto my ps5 right now and run windows on it? Can i go onto my ps5 right now customize the entire OS to my liking? Does the ps5 have an internet browser that i can use? Get my point. Consoles aren't PC's.