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[metalslimer]

I can't defend him on everything, but Iwata greenlit the 3DS initial price based on our reaction to its reveal at E3 2010. People in general reacted VERY positively to that. He didn't take into consideration that the price could be a turn off or something...

He should be fired if he really greenlit the price over enthusiast gamers at E3. Iwata is a complete buffoon to really not see that the price was going to be issue. The tech in the 3DS didn;t even match the price. It was outdated months before it was even released. Nintendo was just incompetent, and thought that the smartphone market had not had any effect so everyone was just waiting to buy a DS successor.

 

[Metallix87]

If they only kept RARE.....man.. the possibilities.

WHY NINTENDO, WHY!

This is a misrepresentation of reality. The Rare that Nintendo ditched was just a sad shell that still carried the name, and Microsoft quickly ensured that consumers knew that.

 

[Snakeyes]

Please, just someone humor me for just a moment; explain to me what Nintendo risks by going third party in the home console market? They temporarily piss off the more immature sections of their fanbase who will eventually get over it anyway then its practically business as usual.

For starters, you could've asked the same question without being an ass.

What drives Nintendo's first party to maintain a varied portfolio of quality software is their need to sell hardware, which then leads to substantial profits on hardware margins, royalties from the sales of third party games and huge profits from the sale of their own in-house IPs. Remove the pressure of having to attract consumers to their platform, and Nintendo's standards would dwindle drastically. Mass layoffs and an exodus of talent are also a very real possibility.

There's also the issue of additional expenses from multiplatform development and royalty fees to other platform holders. More expenses means trying to bring in revenue in other ways. Notice how most of the big third party publishers do business in today's market? Time to say goodbye to any franchise that isn't a multi-million seller and get ready for nothing but yearly iterations of 2D Mario, Pokemon and Mario Kart, with maybe one or two Zelda games per generation. A big push for DLC may be in the cards as well.

Just compare Sega's current output with the Dreamcast/NAOMI days, including games that were already in development for their hardware but moved to other platforms after the company went third party. It may not mean much for those who only care about Sonic and Sega's Sports division (now 2K Sports), but it's a sad state of affairs for those who were fond of their more experimental mid-tier software.

A similar decrease in quality and quantity happened with every developer that used its software to push their proprietary hardware platforms. Atari, Hudson, SNK, Sega... With this much historical precedent, I'd rather not take a chance with Nintendo as well.

 

[pretty done]

If they only kept RARE.....man.. the possibilities.

WHY NINTENDO, WHY!

This is fucking hilarious. Nintendo were smart to let go of RARE. Their last two games on Nintendo consoles were straight up shit, and they haven't done a single thing worth playing since the sale. For all the shit people give Nintendo, they were so on point with the sale of RARE.

 

[Guevara]

I imagine the 3DS price was so high because Nintendo felt they left a lot of money on the table with the Wii.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

He should be fired if he really greenlit the price over enthusiast gamers at E3.

What do you know? He might listen to "enthusiast gamers" and fire himself

 

[Metallix87]

I imagine the 3DS price was so high because Nintendo felt they left a lot of money on the table with the Wii.

Felt? Analysts like Pachter flat-out told them they left money on the table. Pachter even said early on that Nintendo could've charged more than $250 for the 3DS.

 

[Freezie KO]

As an addendum to my post, I'd also like to say that it's understandable that Xbox 360 developers in 2004 didn't fully realize the increased resources of HD console development. It's entirely inexcusable that Nintendo's teams were unprepared in 2011/2012.

Because his replacement could do much worse. Only the last year Nintendo has had red figures, before that NONE.

I'm not saying I like the choices Nintendo has made though. But saying everything will be better with a new CEO is very American.

It's fair to say that his replacement could do much worse. Without knowing who that person is, we're completely in the dark. That's why Nintendo should analyze each candidate individually based on their own merits.

But you don't keep heading towards a cliff at 40 mph out of fear of turning onto another road.

I was on board until this part of your post. This is nonsense. Aside from Wind Waker HD and Wii Sports Club (remakes) and the NSMB series (which are, admittedly, very basic in gameplay as a means to hook un-experienced gamers), the rest do offer innovations in the gameplay department.

3D World's cat suit may not be a revelation, but to me, the cherry was. It opened up a lot of new ideas and possibilities, even if it wasn't utilized to it's maximum potential. Dreams of Super Mario 128 came rushing back to the forefront of my mind. I'd love to see a game that takes a similar idea and runs with it, and I don't mean in the direction that Pikmin did.

Wii Fit U offers new experiences with the Balance Board, for better or worse. FWIW, my girlfriend loves the game, and says the new games are fun and use the Board in creative ways.

Game & Wario, much like Nintendo Land (which you are much less harsh on), tries several new gameplay ideas because it is, for all intents and purposes, another glorified tech demo.

I have not played Wii Party U, and thus can't comment on that one.

Pikmin 3's innovation comes from the new Pikmin types. The rock Pikmin and winged Pikmin really open up the gameplay, expanding to a truly three-dimensional experience. Suddenly, your options for exploration, item retrieval, and combat are much more robust, and while the loss of the purple and white Pikmin was tragic, the new types offered up so much more.

Am I saying these are the most innovative gameplay experiences around? No, absolutely not, but to imply that Nintendo simply "plays it safe" with the gameplay of the majority of their games is ludicrous.

The double cherry is the best gameplay concept in 3DW (in the 10 levels it's in), and the new Pikmin definitely add something to the game. I'm a huge Pikmin 3 advocate. But this is standard sequel stuff. The games aren't ports. Of course, they're going to have something new about them.

But these are neither the huge revelatory advances in gaming that come with a Wii Sports or Ocarina of Time (existing franchise) or a Super Mario Kart (spin-off) nor are they the fresh feeling you get from a brand new world like Last of Us. They're simply expanding the core of the game, in one case SM3DL and in the other Pikmin. And they do so in a rather safe way.

 

[R0ckman]

Can someone explain this meme? Is it representing Nintendo not giving a fuck or being retarted?

 

[Coolwhip]

He should be fired if he really greenlit the price over enthusiast gamers at E3. Iwata is a complete buffoon to really not see that the price was going to be issue. The tech in the 3DS didn;t even match the price. It was outdated months before it was even released.

The tech doesn't even matter. You realise iPhones cost a fraction of what they are selling for?

The issue with the 3DS was that Nintendo failed to recognize what made the DS so big (price a big factor). Just like with Wii/Wii U.

 

[Zabant]

This is a misrepresentation of reality. The Rare that Nintendo ditched was just a sad shell that still carried the name, and Microsoft quickly ensured that consumers knew that.

Viva Piñata.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Can someone explain this meme? Is it representing Nintendo not giving a fuck or being retarted?

Moreso Nintendo being oblivious to everything around it.

 

[-MD-]

This is fucking hilarious. Nintendo were smart to let go of RARE. Their last two games on Nintendo consoles were straight up shit, and they haven't done a single thing worth playing since the sale. For all the shit people give Nintendo, they were so on point with the sale of RARE.

You must be mistaken, Conker's Bad Fur Day is one of the 2 final Rare games released on a Nintendo console.

Unless you somehow consider CBFD to be "shit" in which case lol.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

They can make the Wii U an awesome value proposition by selling it for: $199.99 or less (preferably $149.99).

It would be the family console of choice at that price point. Of course, they'd have to do another big marketing push--a relaunch of sorts.

 

[Finalizer]

You say that as if you have all of Nintendo's financial data in front of you. It is easy to speculate on the benefits Nintendo would lose by producing only games whereas it is much more difficult to ascertain exactly how much money Nintendo would make as a 3rd party. Give us your knowledge, oh wise one.

I'm not arguing for Nintendo to go third party, sweetheart. I'm merely pointing out how comical it is that he's so invested into the idea that Nintendo software must exist on Nintendo hardware (check the fellow's post history) that he conjures up these things that would prevent such software from being viable on other hardware platforms, even when that's demonstrably false.

 

[Mpl90]

I can't defend him on everything, but Iwata greenlit the 3DS initial price based on our reaction to its reveal at E3 2010. People in general reacted VERY positively to that. He didn't take into consideration that the price could be a turn off or something...

If there's something to learn from 3DS pre-launch period, is that it's better to NEVER believe so blindly how people are hyping the device to think you can overprice it by 50 (I firmly believe 3DS original price was 199.99, but then E3 happened). Follow the original plans, while reacting to market changes / people impressions but never by making decisions like higher prices, lower amount of titles out of the gate, etc.etc.

 

[Frolow]

I can't defend him on everything, but Iwata greenlit the 3DS initial price based on our reaction to its reveal at E3 2010. People in general reacted VERY positively to that. He didn't take into consideration that the price could be a turn off or something...

I think both Sony and Nintendo drastically underestimated the affect the mobile market had in regards to their dedicated handhelds. People reacted very positively to both the 3DS and Vita's price points, yet both systems were slow out the gates,and in the Vita's case, still not selling well.

 

[metalslimer]

The tech doesn't even matter. You realise iPhones cost a fraction of what they are selling for?

The issue with the 3DS was that Nintendo failed to recognize what made the DS so big (price a big factor). Just like with Wii/Wii U.

I'm not saying the tech does matter. It was just an additional point that Nintendo didn't even justify the premium price.

 

[chadboban]

Can someone explain this meme? Is it representing Nintendo not giving a fuck or being retarted?

It's from an episode of The Final Bosman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbZ8dk8Qblc

 

[Metallix87]

Viva Piñata.

Perfect Dark Zero.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Can someone explain this meme? Is it representing Nintendo not giving a fuck or being retarted?

Final Bosman gag. More "doing whatever they want" than either of the above.

 

[KAP151]

You must be mistaken, Conker's Bad Fur Day is one of the 2 final Rare games released on a Nintendo console.

Unless you somehow consider CBFD to be "shit" in which case lol.

 

[-MD-]

Perfect Dark Zero.

I fucking loved PDZ's multiplayer. Game doesn't really hold up but back during launch it was awesome.

 

[Mlatador]

you know out of all the threads today about the sales etc I don't think the PS4 sales is what we should focus on but instead this:

Alien: Isolation (CA/Sega, late 2014) [PC, PS3, PS4, Xbox 360 & XB1] (Amnesia-like)
Game Informer: Evolve (TurtleRock(L4D)/2K, PC/PS4/XB1, CryEn, 4v1 PvP) [Screenshot]

does nintendo not talk to third parties? why isn't the wii u in any of those tittles? christ one is a cross gen game so the "can't be done on wii u" thing flies out of the window

That is a good question. Alien: Isolation is even published by SEGA (with whom they should have a good relationship nowadays) and a perfect fit for the Wii U Gamepad. But what can they do, rather then ask them? Moneyhat them? Should they moneyhat every 3rd party developer from now on? Like Iwata said, this would not lead to anywhere.

3rd paties themselves should also help get rid of this stupid stigma that Nintendo is only "for teh kiddeyz".

 

[Guevara]

Felt? Analysts like Pachter flat-out told them they left money on the table. Pachter even said early on that Nintendo could've charged more than $250 for the 3DS.

Yeah but the console market is weird. Nintendo would have made more money, at least for a while, from a $300+ Wii, but there's a benefit to saying your console is sold out, the hottest Christmas present, etc. In some ways a $250 console you can't buy in the short term is better than a $350 console sitting on the shelf. I can't really explain it.

 

[LiberaTeExInferis]

Sorry, is this a consensus that third party offerings have become worse with Iwata?
I feel it is the other way around..Having secured franchises like MoHun, Dragon Quest, providing financial back up for games like Bayo 2, TW101 or opening collaborations, make me think that this is vastly wrong.
Unless you refer to the Western part of the equation...

 

[MYE]

As successful as the Wii and DS were, the things he did or yet the things he did not do during last generation pretty much nullify their success.

-He turned around and is currently maintaining a fairly successfull portable system in a market heavily gearing toward phone games and f2p shit.
-He is working with multiple studios to release exclusive third party stuff by funding and/or publishing their titles on his systems, instead of moneyhating timed exclusivity or making anti consumer deals with the bigger, money loving-anti consumer studios.
-His company was just recently considered the best publisher of 2013 by popular opinion, mainly due to the unmatched ratio of quantity and quality of their output in two consoles.
-He is the only one not hiding online gaming behind paywalls.
-He is the only one still supporting full, 100% true backwards compatibility to previous gen software and most peripherals.
-His company made arguably the most interesting community based system around with Miiverse.
-He is still promoting the culture of waiting/delaying games in order to not compromise its quality. Even in face of having a low selling machine to deal with, that could use less droughts.
-His company is well enough managed that they are known to rarely, if ever, go on firing sprees.
Etc...

Some of these things are big, others small and maybe unimportant to some, but they are all right choices that everyone just takes for granted just because.

 

[Rehynn]

That's debatable. They're certainly no more innovative than Sony, who I feel has really stepped up their game in recent years.

As evidenced by... the rear touchscreen on the Vita?

I do think innovation is sort of overrated (definitely when it's pretty much for its own sake), but let's not get crazy and call Sony as innovative as Nintendo. Not after the Move, not after Remote Play, and certainly not after the recently announced Wii Fit Meter-inspired thingy.

-He is the only one not hiding online gaming behind paywalls.

Didn't you get the memo? Online paywalls are allright now that Sony's doing it too.

On a more serious note: To say that Iwata's mistakes "nullify" the Wii and the DS is preposterous. Dismissing 250+ consoles sold in a single generation like that? Jesus fucking Christ.

 

[KillerMan91]

They can make the Wii U an awesome value proposition by selling it for: $199.99 or less (preferably $149.99).

It would be the family console of choice at that price point. Of course, they'd have to do another big marketing push--a relaunch of sorts.

Shame that they engineered the console in a way that it costs shitton to make.

 

[metalslimer]

And you know, I would certainly be more sympathetic to Iwata if he had actually outlined a plan for how he plans to change Nintendo going forward to be more relevant in the console market. Instead, he doesn't actually seem to think there is a problem. He then went on with his "one game can change everything" nonsense as if another 3D Mario or Mario Kart is going to be some magical gamechanger. This is a problem I have with Nintendo. They seem to think that there is a huge amount of people waiting for these games rather than realizing that the market that made those games huge on the Wii is gone and the core Nintendo market is shriveling up.

Some of these things are big, others small and maybe unimportant to some, but they are all right choices that everyone just takes for granted just because.

Excluding that you are completely ignorning some of Nintendo's terrible anti consumer policies, most of that really is unimportant in today's market and actually hurts them.

 

[Celine]

Firing is mainly an Western solution to this sort of problem, with it's roots in basic revenge. Nintendo won't fire Iwata simply because he hasn't done much wrong. If Nintendo had made poor hardware or software this might be the case but they haven't.

Iwata in specific as CEO and more generally the board of directors surely made (costly) mistakes in the last few years (even during the Wii era).
If Iwata will not be fired is for the same reason that Yamauchi never had to resign (well of course Yamauchi had a much bigger weight than Iwata being the majority owner) and that's because there is still faith that doing the things in the Nintendo way, even through bad times, will still bear fruits.

 

[Seik]

I'm sorry that the success or failure of a videogame company defines so many of you

My point is that you answered a well thought five paragraphs post with a 8 words semi-insulting sentence, that's all. :/

 

[Zabant]

Perfect Dark Zero.

Star Fox Adventures.

Look, my point is Rare have always been Hit or Miss, but it's the culture there that made the games we love.

And for the record the kinect sports games are well made for what they are and they sold more than anything they have ever made in the past. Don't count them out, if MS let them take risks you might be surprised.

 

[Shadow Hog]

That's one game. The person making the claim said their last two games on Nintendo consoles sucked.

 

[pretty done]

You must be mistaken, Conker's Bad Fur Day is one of the 2 final Rare games released on a Nintendo console.

Unless you somehow consider CBFD to be "shit" in which case lol.

For some reason I thought they did both of those GCN "Star Fox" games

I apologize, Conker was awesome.

 

[SerodD]

video games make people so mad, I don't get it.

Same as sports, you choose a team bash the other.

 

[Kensuke]

They almost always innovate gameplay? 3D World doesn't. WindWaker HD doesn't. NSMB doesn't. NSLU doesn't. Wii Fit + doesn't. Wii Sports HD doesn't. Game and Wario doesn't. Wii Party U doesn't. Nintendo Land... sorta does in a mini-game tech demo way. And as good as it is, Pikmin 3 really doesn't either.

3D World does innovate. I consider new gameplay ideas to be innovative. 3D World brings new, very cool, suits to the table and a bunch of individual levels that also contain fresh ideas. It might not be a paradigm shift like Galaxy was, but it's still doing new great things. If 3D World isn't considered to be innovative, it stands to reason very, few games are.

Pikmin 3's control scheme felt innovative to me. The combination of the Wii remote and GamePad (for on-the-fly multitasking) was useful and new. Not to mention the cool stuff they did with level design and boss battles. I get the feeling you expect them to make up whole new genres with every new entry of a franchise.

I also don't understand this extreme focus on the business side of things. Isn't the game library the most important factor for gamers? Wii U's library is very decent, so to me the system is automatically also very decent. Seems to me like Iwata is doing a good job from a gamer's perspective. Add to that a promising 2014 and I've got very little to complain. As long as Nintendo keeps bringing the software, I won't care much about sales.

 

[freezamite]

I'm tickled by your continued insistence of the existence of this royalty boogeyman that's somehow so crippling it would prevent Nintendo from publishing their current stable of games on any other platform, as though there isn't already a wealth of indie devs that make a living off titles far further from anything remotely mainstream than Nintendo's current output.

So you want Nintendo to develop games with indie budgets, but if that's the case, why are you not buying a Nintendo console with the excuse of it having not enough graphics?
I mean, they abandon their current business strategy, but you want them to stick with dozens of minor games that wouldn't be viable without a console.

This is not how it works. The Mario formula has been completely explored at this point, I suppose they could interleave games from one style or the other. As I said, you can forget about anything besides the most famous Mario sagas, and maybe Zelda. Anything else won't get green light unless it's made with an indie budget.

 

[LiberaTeExInferis]

And you know, I would certainly be more sympathetic to Iwata if he had actually outlined a plan for how he plans to change Nintendo going forward to be more relevant in the console market..

Well, I think that this quarter's results will give him the perfect chance and dare I say, the absolutely necessary time to outline some of his plans, since the original forecasts will not be met.

 

[MYE]

And you know, I would certainly be more sympathetic to Iwata if he had actually outlined a plan for how he plans to change Nintendo going forward to be more relevant in the console market. Instead, he doesn't actually seem to think there is a problem. He then went on with his "one game can change everything" nonsense as if another 3D Mario or Mario Kart is going to be some magical gamechanger. This is a problem I have with Nintendo. They seem to think that there is a huge amount of people waiting for these games rather than realizing that the market that made those games huge on the Wii is gone and the core Nintendo market is shriveling up.

Thats a lot of assumptions right here.

 

[trinest]

Release a third pillar which is a 3DS/Wii U in one. Then slowly release more on the merged platform.

The end.

 

[Interceptor]

Iwata hasn't done much wrong?


They almost always innovate gameplay? 3D World doesn't. WindWaker HD doesn't. NSMB doesn't. NSLU doesn't. Wii Fit + doesn't. Wii Sports HD doesn't. Game and Wario doesn't. Wii Party U doesn't. Nintendo Land... sorta does in a mini-game tech demo way. And as good as it is, Pikmin 3 really doesn't either.

Joke or drunk post? I can´t ell...

 

[Metallix87]

As evidenced by... the rear touchscreen on the Vita?

I do think innovation is sort of overrated (definitely when it's pretty much for its own sake), but let's not get crazy and call Sony as innovative as Nintendo. Not after the Move, not after Remote Play, and certainly not after the recently announced Wii Fit Meter-inspired thingy.

I would argue that Tearaway is one of the more innovative gameplay experiences I've played in recent years. It's not the best game I've played, but it's innovative and unique.

 

[metalslimer]

Thats a lot of assumptions right here.

Iwata's forecasts tells us he really thought releasing the same old Nintendo IPs was really going to change everything around. And even with the 3DS which is actually a success, Nintendo has completely unrealistic notions of what their portable market is. They haven't a single forecast for any system in software or hardware in years. Either Iwata completely doesn't understand the market, or someone else is hamstringing him from saying or doing anything to fix it.

 

[Rehynn]

I would argue that Tearaway is one of the more innovative gameplay experiences I've played in recent years. It's not the best game I've played, but it's innovative and unique.

No one said it wasn't, but it's one game.

 

[lwilliams3]

Iwata hasn't done much wrong?

• He lacked the foresight to prepare for HD development, causing huge problems with Wii U delays.
• He never expanded the business sufficiently to cover the droughts that have existed since the N64.
• Third party support has only gotten worse since he's taken over.
• He neglected the importance of online gameplay and building an online community until 2013, which is something a marketing student could've told him in 2005.
• He shut down the autonomy of the Western arm of the company and burned bridges with Western third parties at precisely the moment the West became far-and-away the largest influence and market for home consoles.
• He lacked the foresight to properly maintain the Wii's casual audience and wasn't able to see that the bubble was about to burst, even after he let the thing die for 2 years with little-to-no software.
• He grossly overestimated the appeal of the 3DS and greenlit a grotesque $250 tag that forced them to slash prices and issue an unprecedented "Ambassador" program for the first time in their history.
• He bet on 3D as a system-seller. It wasn't.
• He never learned from the potential brand confusion of the 3DS's early days and made the same mistakes with the Wii U's name.
• He greenlit the GamePad as the centerpiece of his console without a single compelling gameplay concept for it.
• The software strategy has only become more safe and stagnant with three NSMB games in 2 years, constant remakes, disappointing some people with 3D Land Part II, disappointing others with more Donkey Kong, and turning half their output into minigame collections, harming the one thing that Nintendo still had goodwill for: its games.

Nintendo sells a product. It's wonderful that you don't think the product is poor, but the larger market does.



They almost always innovate gameplay? 3D World doesn't. WindWaker HD doesn't. NSMB doesn't. NSLU doesn't. Wii Fit + doesn't. Wii Sports HD doesn't. Game and Wario doesn't. Wii Party U doesn't. Nintendo Land... sorta does in a mini-game tech demo way. And as good as it is, Pikmin 3 really doesn't either.

Hmm, I think some of these issues would have unfortunately happened one way or another. A lot of Japanese video game companies were hit hard by the HD era. Nintendo decided to move sideways and prevented itself (and the industry) from being negatively affected by the transition of HD development. The entire industry benefitted from Iwata's decisions and the existence of the Wii and DS.

However, Nintendo just delayed the issues with HD transition and is now getting hit hard. Now the company is at the crossroads and needs to figure out what would be the most effective path for them.

 

[Coolwhip]

And you know, I would certainly be more sympathetic to Iwata if he had actually outlined a plan for how he plans to change Nintendo going forward to be more relevant in the console market. Instead, he doesn't actually seem to think there is a problem. He then went on with his "one game can change everything" nonsense as if another 3D Mario or Mario Kart is going to be some magical gamechanger. This is a problem I have with Nintendo. They seem to think that there is a huge amount of people waiting for these games rather than realizing that the market that made those games huge on the Wii is gone and the core Nintendo market is shriveling up.

I doubt the 'one game' story is what they say at their boardmeetings though. If they do, then they are nuts.

In the end Nintendo has a very complex problem. The world has changed a lot in the last few years, on GAF alone there are hundreds of ideas of what Nintendo should do. But before Wii, probably none of us thought re-releasing the Gamecube with a motion remote controller would sell 100 million. What can Nintendo do now? The casual market is leaving Nintendo in the cold, but the PS4/Xbone market isn't right for Nintendo either. MS and Sony aren't making money with their strategy, so why would Nintendo? How Nintendo comes out of this slump is probably impossible to predict.

 

[Huff]

My point is that you answered a well thought five paragraphs post with a 8 words semi-insulting sentence, that's all. :/

writing about everyone always picking on nintendo doesn't get any more intelligent no matter how long or great the prose is

 

[Metallix87]

However, Nintendo just delayed the issues with HD transition and is now getting hit hard. Now the company is at the crossroads and needs to figure out what would be the most effective path for them.

The bright side is this: The DS and Wii made them enough money that they can take a generation of hardship as they ramp up HD development.

 

[Extra Sauce]

Hypothetically speaking, why would Nintendo be doomed if they were drawing inspiration from Naughty Dog out of all companies? If we were picking bad companies for Nintendo to draw inspiration from, I don't think Naughty Dog would be close to that list.

You put much more thought into my silly joke than I did.

For the record I think Naughty Dog are great.