Manmademan
Member
That was a brilliant post man, kudos
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Now that the PS4 has already outsold the Wii U, where does Nintendo go from here?
- Thread starter Gonzo The Great
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That was a brilliant post man, kudos
Assumptions makes an ass out of you. I said no such thing. There is no reason why Nintendo can't create a system totally different from the competition, which is what they did. I simple stated that they failed to create a message or clarify that. A PS4 from Nintendo, if that was Nintendo's direction, would have been ok as well. But I have no problem buying multiple consoles for multiple experiences.
It's sad, but it's true. Too bad that still are a lot of Nintendo fanboys defending this man like him is somekind of a messiah.
Because his replacement could do much worse. Only the last year Nintendo has had red figures, before that NONE.
I'm not saying I like the choices Nintendo has made though. But saying everything will be better with a new CEO is very American.
You should check your priorities in life if a game console makes you sick because it doesn't appeal to you.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Hah. Every manufacturer gets the daily Negative thread treatment. Noone has got it worse than Sony did at the beginning of this generation. And before that, Microsoft did when the RROD/Mass Effect things were happening. And before that the Gamecube was pretty much the critical darling of GAF and GAF weren't fond of the original Xbox at all. Everyone expected Microsoft to not have a second console entirely.
So humans will be humans. Just deal with it.
Excellent post.
Poimandres
Member
I agree that there have definitely been a disproportionate number of threads talking about poor sales of the Wii U (someone should actually count how many there have been since the system launched!) and that it's just the same general arguments repeated over and over.
However, once the Wii U is passed in sales by the PS4 or Xbone (which probably hasn't actually happened yet) it is definitely thread worthy news. Of course the thread will be filled with the same back and forth happening here, but news is news. Just like there will be a thread when the Wii U/PS4/Xbone pass 10 million or other milestones.
Any diehards left now will probably let Nintendo do whatever the hell the want to them and stay loyal. The last sane nintendo fans jumped ship during the Wii era.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
TreasureHunterG
Banned
You better give a very well elaborated explanation for why this would happen.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
No it dont
But apart from that, what have the Romans ever done for us?!
H_Prestige
Banned
Truth bombs in this post
See, it's gross generalization like this that make this threads go south.
Thank you for telling me I'm insane because I still identify as a fan of theirs.
Silent_Ocarina
Member
You never miss an opportunity to criticize Super Mario 3D World, but I have to agree with your sentiments here. The system was poorly designed from the beginning. Nintendo insists that its software is enough to drive systems on its own merit, but the market clearly shows that that is untrue, despite how great I personally think it is. I am pretty tired of seeing Wii games with a U slapped on the title, though, and I don't like how Nintendo is letting its IPs leak into other franchises like Sonic or Tekken. I can't explain why it upsets me, but it does. I, however, have no problem with games like Donkey Kong and Super Mario 3D World.
Anyway, there's really nothing for Nintendo to do than to ride it out, I think. I'm sure it's clear that I'm no business expert, but I think Nintendo should just focus on refining what they have. Release the games they have in development when they are ready, and cut costs when they can. I don't believe in an aggressive strategy like eliminating the GamePad, changing the name, or slashing prices even more than they can handle. As much as I like the guy, I really do agree that Iwata made awful decisions. However, I am not convinced that his departure alone will make things better. I think Nintendo as a whole needs a philosophy change.
By the way, I did hit Reply as soon as I read your post. I just left the PC idling. It's a very good post!
metalslimer
Member
Pretty much. People whine more about people critcizing Nintendo than actually criticizing Nintendo. And you don't do yourself any favors pretending like year 1 of Wii U isn't representative of this console's future when nothing much is going to change going forward. It's not surprising that a lot of Nintendo fans latch onto the idea that Nintendo just had an off year and not the fact hat Nintendo is systematically broken at the corporate level.
Hey man Iwata is the smartest businessman alive. You can't question how smart he is because he has proven time and time again why he can fix Nintendo's' mistakes!
It's sad, but it's true. Too bad that still are a lot of Nintendo fanboys defending this man like he's somekind of messiah.
People always forget that It goes both ways. As CEO, he is responsible for all the bad AND good things. He gets paid the big bucks for that.
Resistence on jumping on the fire-him-bus might have something to do with people wanting to see more of what was done right and/or not risk having those good things stop for an uncertain future with a currently unknown successor with unkown agendas.
Calling for Iwata head may be just but think about it.
He will either be replaced by someone in house.. Or someone who believes mobile is the only way.
That is why there is a ton of pusjback from some.
Iwata was a developer and that is what make him endearing to many. He isn't just another suit and is quote unquote for the gamers.
People fear the new ceo would take the company to new shitty ways in an attempt to chase a short term gain.
Look at the other Japanese titans and their current outlook.
He will either be replaced by someone in house.. Or someone who believes mobile is the only way.
That is why there is a ton of pusjback from some.
Iwata was a developer and that is what make him endearing to many. He isn't just another suit and is quote unquote for the gamers.
People fear the new ceo would take the company to new shitty ways in an attempt to chase a short term gain.
Look at the other Japanese titans and their current outlook.
Metallix87
Member
I was on board until this part of your post. This is nonsense. Aside from Wind Waker HD and Wii Sports Club (remakes) and the NSMB series (which are, admittedly, very basic in gameplay as a means to hook un-experienced gamers), the rest do offer innovations in the gameplay department.
3D World's cat suit may not be a revelation, but to me, the cherry was. It opened up a lot of new ideas and possibilities, even if it wasn't utilized to it's maximum potential. Dreams of Super Mario 128 came rushing back to the forefront of my mind. I'd love to see a game that takes a similar idea and runs with it, and I don't mean in the direction that Pikmin did.
Wii Fit U offers new experiences with the Balance Board, for better or worse. FWIW, my girlfriend loves the game, and says the new games are fun and use the Board in creative ways.
Game & Wario, much like Nintendo Land (which you are much less harsh on), tries several new gameplay ideas because it is, for all intents and purposes, another glorified tech demo.
I have not played Wii Party U, and thus can't comment on that one.
Pikmin 3's innovation comes from the new Pikmin types. The rock Pikmin and winged Pikmin really open up the gameplay, expanding to a truly three-dimensional experience. Suddenly, your options for exploration, item retrieval, and combat are much more robust, and while the loss of the purple and white Pikmin was tragic, the new types offered up so much more.
Am I saying these are the most innovative gameplay experiences around? No, absolutely not, but to imply that Nintendo simply "plays it safe" with the gameplay of the majority of their games is ludicrous.
Why is it exactly that Sony can go entire generations bathed in red ink and you wont see the sheer number of alarmist threads like this that Nintendo typically gets in a month on GAF? You know, chalkboard meme and Amirox meltdown not withstanding. Not that Nintendo is beyond cold hard analysis, but these threads always seem to gravitate towards the same hackneyed talking points about how the only way for Nintendo to move forward is to fire Iwata and scrap a console that's been out for one year, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. It's hard to take anything the OP says seriously after that.
Another question that begs to be asked is why Wii and DS are considered anomalous luck, but when a system doesn't burst out of the gate on fire all the sudden Iwata is completely incompetent and out of touch? Imagine if shareholders were gaffers, particularly after the middling launch of the 3DS. I have my own questions about Nintendo's trajectory, but it's preposterous to write off Iwata's business acumen, which had led to some of the most profitable systems in Nintendo's history. Guess that doesn't matter in an industry with a memory the size of a goldfish. What have you done for me lately, right?
I'm starting to wonder when this topic will get its own community thread, because it seems to pop up 10 times a week in various thinly veiled ways. I keep thinking one day I'll click and be welcomed to some brilliant new break down of the state of Nintendo, but the crux of the conversation always seems to revolve around parroting the same wildly reductive arguments. Here's a reminder- Nintendo is already restructuring. It's also apparent that Wii U software took a hit while resources were dedicated to bolstering the 3DS, which is now stabilized. As insular as Nintendo's decisions are in some regards I don't personally believe that they operate in a complete vacuum like a lot of people seem to. Wii U has plenty of untapped potential, and not just in an abstract pie in the sky way, but you can't just right a ship overnight. Development takes time. It remains to be seen what seeds Nintendo has planted, but already there's a few signs of things to come.
For the most part I think it's accepted that 3rd party support is never going to blossom outside of a handful of cool niche games every now and then. If the insane growth of the Wii userbase couldn't get companies to pull their heads out of their asses and produce something better than shit ports and C quality spin-offs there's no reason to suspect they'll leap from their seats to do Wii U exclusives that matter. Imo Nintendo should start money hatting promising young indies. Tell the old guard to fuck off unless they bring the goods, and get fresh talent locked by providing them with an opportunity to grow and flourish on the platform. I also think Nintendo should make sweetheart deals with companies like Capcom and Konami to do comparatively modest retro revivals, retail, not digital. Let the other companies chase after the crowd that's more wowed by ornate presentation than the fundamental joy of interaction. Put the focus on well paced pick up and play experiences and tickle that nostalgia bone with cool franchises that have sat dormant. Differentiate yourself from your competitors arms race. That's what I'd do with the Wii U if it were my choice.
Then there's the obvious. Mario Kart, Smash Bros., and to a lesser extent Tropical Freeze. Nintendo knows what its money makers are, and it's leaning on them heavily during the Wii U's second year. Alone I don't think they'll have all the pull in the world, but as games like that accumulate in the library in concert with more niche stuff like Wonderful 101, Bayonetta, Pikmin, etc. I think more hitherto ambivalent enthusiasts will start seeing Wii U as a viable secondary platform. Sometimes it only takes a few "must-haves", but a library of unique supporting software definitely helps.
Such a great post. Thanks for this
killer rin
Member
What Nintendo does now is continue to carve out their niche, and work on Mobile where they do decently well. A company doesn't need to sell hundreds of millions of units to be successful. They just need to make a worthwhile profit
metalslimer
Member
Acording to this: http://markets.ft.com/research/Markets/Tearsheets/Financials?s=7974:TYO
About 594 million USD represents 15,28% of they're cash reserve, which if I'm not wrong means they should have about 3,89 billion USD ( + 594 (gain?) = 4.484 billion USD) (is this right?)
Why is it exactly that Sony can go entire generations bathed in red ink and you wont see the sheer number of alarmist threads like this that Nintendo typically gets in a month on GAF? You know, chalkboard meme and Amirox meltdown not withstanding. Not that Nintendo is beyond cold hard analysis, but these threads always seem to gravitate towards the same hackneyed talking points about how the only way for Nintendo to move forward is to fire Iwata and scrap a console that's been out for one year, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. It's hard to take anything the OP says seriously after that.
Another question that begs to be asked is why Wii and DS are considered anomalous luck, but when a system doesn't burst out of the gate on fire all the sudden Iwata is completely incompetent and out of touch? Imagine if shareholders were gaffers, particularly after the middling launch of the 3DS. I have my own questions about Nintendo's trajectory, but it's preposterous to write off Iwata's business acumen, which had led to some of the most profitable systems in Nintendo's history. Guess that doesn't matter in an industry with a memory the size of a goldfish. What have you done for me lately, right?
I'm starting to wonder when this topic will get its own community thread, because it seems to pop up 10 times a week in various thinly veiled ways. I keep thinking one day I'll click and be welcomed to some brilliant new break down of the state of Nintendo, but the crux of the conversation always seems to revolve around parroting the same wildly reductive arguments. Here's a reminder- Nintendo is already restructuring. It's also apparent that Wii U software took a hit while resources were dedicated to bolstering the 3DS, which is now stabilized. As insular as Nintendo's decisions are in some regards I don't personally believe that they operate in a complete vacuum like a lot of people seem to. Wii U has plenty of untapped potential, and not just in an abstract pie in the sky way, but you can't just right a ship overnight. Development takes time. It remains to be seen what seeds Nintendo has planted, but already there's a few signs of things to come.
For the most part I think it's accepted that 3rd party support is never going to blossom outside of a handful of cool niche games every now and then. If the insane growth of the Wii userbase couldn't get companies to pull their heads out of their asses and produce something better than shit ports and C quality spin-offs there's no reason to suspect they'll leap from their seats to do Wii U exclusives that matter. Imo Nintendo should start money hatting promising young indies. Tell the old guard to fuck off unless they bring the goods, and get fresh talent locked by providing them with an opportunity to grow and flourish on the platform. I also think Nintendo should make sweetheart deals with companies like Capcom and Konami to do comparatively modest retro revivals, retail, not digital. Let the other companies chase after the crowd that's more wowed by ornate presentation than the fundamental joy of interaction. Put the focus on well paced pick up and play experiences and tickle that nostalgia bone with cool franchises that have sat dormant. Differentiate yourself from your competitors arms race. That's what I'd do with the Wii U if it were my choice.
Then there's the obvious. Mario Kart, Smash Bros., and to a lesser extent Tropical Freeze. Nintendo knows what its money makers are, and it's leaning on them heavily during the Wii U's second year. Alone I don't think they'll have all the pull in the world, but as games like that accumulate in the library in concert with more niche stuff like Wonderful 101, Bayonetta, Pikmin, etc. I think more hitherto ambivalent enthusiasts will start seeing Wii U as a viable secondary platform. Sometimes it only takes a few "must-haves", but a library of unique supporting software definitely helps.
Good post
I'm tickled by your continued insistence of the existence of this royalty boogeyman that's somehow so crippling it would prevent Nintendo from publishing their current stable of games on any other platform, as though there isn't already a wealth of indie devs that make a living off titles far further from anything remotely mainstream than Nintendo's current output.
I personally don't think Iwata has done anything wrong, and if anything, has done everything right.
I personally think Ballmer and Kaz are just lazy and don't want to speak to us lowly fans via monthly videos. Hence they use their money from their business that actually succeed to market and promote their consoles. Unfortunately in this day and age that means going on to message boards and spreading disinformation.
I don't actually think this. Don't ban me.
Why is it exactly that Sony can go entire generations bathed in red ink and you wont see the sheer number of alarmist threads like this that Nintendo typically gets in a month on GAF? You know, chalkboard meme and Amirox meltdown not withstanding. Not that Nintendo is beyond cold hard analysis, but these threads always seem to gravitate towards the same hackneyed talking points about how the only way for Nintendo to move forward is to fire Iwata and scrap a console that's been out for one year, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. It's hard to take anything the OP says seriously after that.
Another question that begs to be asked is why Wii and DS are considered anomalous luck, but when a system doesn't burst out of the gate on fire all the sudden Iwata is completely incompetent and out of touch? Imagine if shareholders were gaffers, particularly after the middling launch of the 3DS. I have my own questions about Nintendo's trajectory, but it's preposterous to write off Iwata's business acumen, which had led to some of the most profitable systems in Nintendo's history. Guess that doesn't matter in an industry with a memory the size of a goldfish. What have you done for me lately, right?
I'm starting to wonder when this topic will get its own community thread, because it seems to pop up 10 times a week in various thinly veiled ways. I keep thinking one day I'll click and be welcomed to some brilliant new break down of the state of Nintendo, but the crux of the conversation always seems to revolve around parroting the same wildly reductive arguments. Here's a reminder- Nintendo is already restructuring. It's also apparent that Wii U software took a hit while resources were dedicated to bolstering the 3DS, which is now stabilized. As insular as Nintendo's decisions are in some regards I don't personally believe that they operate in a complete vacuum like a lot of people seem to. Wii U has plenty of untapped potential, and not just in an abstract pie in the sky way, but you can't just right a ship overnight. Development takes time. It remains to be seen what seeds Nintendo has planted, but already there's a few signs of things to come.
For the most part I think it's accepted that 3rd party support is never going to blossom outside of a handful of cool niche games every now and then. If the insane growth of the Wii userbase couldn't get companies to pull their heads out of their asses and produce something better than shit ports and C quality spin-offs there's no reason to suspect they'll leap from their seats to do Wii U exclusives that matter. Imo Nintendo should start money hatting promising young indies. Tell the old guard to fuck off unless they bring the goods, and get fresh talent locked by providing them with an opportunity to grow and flourish on the platform. I also think Nintendo should make sweetheart deals with companies like Capcom and Konami to do comparatively modest retro revivals, retail, not digital. Let the other companies chase after the crowd that's more wowed by ornate presentation than the fundamental joy of interaction. Put the focus on well paced pick up and play experiences and tickle that nostalgia bone with cool franchises that have sat dormant. Differentiate yourself from your competitors arms race. That's what I'd do with the Wii U if it were my choice.
Then there's the obvious. Mario Kart, Smash Bros., and to a lesser extent Tropical Freeze. Nintendo knows what its money makers are, and it's leaning on them heavily during the Wii U's second year. Alone I don't think they'll have all the pull in the world, but as games like that accumulate in the library in concert with more niche stuff like Wonderful 101, Bayonetta, Pikmin, etc. I think more hitherto ambivalent enthusiasts will start seeing Wii U as a viable secondary platform. Sometimes it only takes a few "must-haves", but a library of unique supporting software definitely helps.
Thanks for this, especially the bold part. I never have the time or patience to air my opinions in these threads, so I'll shamelessly just piggy back on your comments: Well said.
You know, I initially liked Iwata for being a refreshing contrast to other high publicity CEOs in the business at the time for bringing a bit of appreciation for game development with him into that position. With that said, it really is a wonder how all of this has happened and someone didn't think that maybe they need to fall back and change something.
I'm always in a weird spot when GAF threads get to playing Hurt/Heal: Iwata and Friends Edition, but with a list like this, it gets really hard to support the guy or Nintendo's upper management. I'd still really love to see who'd be called upon to lead the ship in a post Iwata era and what kind of strategies they would go forward with first.
This.
Not too surprising I guess, but I wonder how big they were in comparison. I feel the DC still shows why trying to revive a dead console with tons of money isn't the brightest idea.
Late reply again:
They did, in 07. It is even where the chalkboard meme came from:
We care about the present and Sony changed. Their finances didn't all turn black, but the PlayStation managment and corporate ideology did. The PS3 had an Nvidia GPU and not because it was that good (the 360 GPU was better), but because it would make porting games from the PS3 harder. The PS2 similarly had very strange HW that made DC games beat it graphically early on. With the PS4 they took a u-turn and made it specifically for the third party and asked them what they wanted.
I don't know how many on NeoGAF I speak for, but I also want Nintendo to change in much the same way. Give us great HW the games deserve and make games that strive to change industry standards. I know the last one is really hard, but they could start with a little less remakes and direct sequels. And no I don't think it is good when CoD does it either which is why the only CoD I ever bought was MW.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
3.91 is correct, sorry, I read the wrong column when I opened up the IR PDF just to sanity check the numbers. I would still argue that it's fairly likely PS4 hasn't quite passed Wii U, but with the revised number I'd say it's going to occur Q1 rather than Q2.
If Nintendo did go third party they could possibly be the biggest publisher in terms of revenue and total worth. And they could become exclusive publishers of niche Japanese games (kind of like Sega from last gen). And getting new IP's to publish could make up for lost console sales and royalties. But layoffs would occur and maybe more milking of safe franchises would occur.
H_Prestige
Banned
If we're counting these as significant innovations, then Nintendo is no more innovative than anyone else.
metalslimer
Member
Also this crazy idea that Nintendo can have multiple consoles fail and still be fine is just not true. They would be a shell of themselves if they continually invest money into failed consoles. Just because they won't go bankrupt does not mean they will be fine.
zenosparadox
Member
You say that as if you have all of Nintendo's financial data in front of you. It is easy to speculate on the benefits Nintendo would lose by producing only games whereas it is much more difficult to ascertain exactly how much money Nintendo would make as a 3rd party. Give us your knowledge, oh wise one.
Under Iwata Wii and DS happened. Under someone else, that probably wouldn't have happened, someone else might have chosen the easier and less risky path. Who is to say that after the Wii U Nintendo doesn't strike gold again under Iwata?
It's sad, but it's true. Too bad that still are a lot of Nintendo fanboys defending this man like he's somekind of messiah.
I'll say this, if Iwata does get sacked they better still have him host the Nintendo Directs
and then if he's ever forced to say "please understand" he can smirk on the inside because some other schmuck is causing the problems
Only because you jumped off with the Wii doesn't mean you were a sane nintendo fan.
*sigh* Another day, another "Nintendo is in twubble" thread. I get so tired of these da...
But hey, at the end of the day, Nintendo gonna Nintendo... at least until March when we'll see if Iwata is gonna still Iwata.
But hey, at the end of the day, Nintendo gonna Nintendo... at least until March when we'll see if Iwata is gonna still Iwata.
Enosh
Member
you know out of all the threads today about the sales etc I don't think the PS4 sales is what we should focus on but instead this:
Alien: Isolation (CA/Sega, late 2014) [PC, PS3, PS4, Xbox 360 & XB1] (Amnesia-like)
Game Informer: Evolve (TurtleRock(L4D)/2K, PC/PS4/XB1, CryEn, 4v1 PvP) [Screenshot]
does nintendo not talk to third parties? why isn't the wii u in any of those tittles? christ one is a cross gen game so the "can't be done on wii u" thing flies out of the window
Alien: Isolation (CA/Sega, late 2014) [PC, PS3, PS4, Xbox 360 & XB1] (Amnesia-like)
Game Informer: Evolve (TurtleRock(L4D)/2K, PC/PS4/XB1, CryEn, 4v1 PvP) [Screenshot]
does nintendo not talk to third parties? why isn't the wii u in any of those tittles? christ one is a cross gen game so the "can't be done on wii u" thing flies out of the window
metalslimer
Member
What, the DS was designed primarily under Yamauchi. And your business strategy is to pray that you strike gold you are insane as that is a terrible strategy to hope you end up coming up with some magical innovation.
I can't defend him on everything, but Iwata greenlit the 3DS initial price based on our reaction to its reveal at E3 2010. People in general reacted VERY positively to that. He didn't take into consideration that the price could be a turn off or something...
Metallix87
Member
That's debatable. They're certainly no more innovative than Sony, who I feel has really stepped up their game in recent years.
SuperAndroid17
Member
If they only kept RARE.....man.. the possibilities.
WHY NINTENDO, WHY!
WHY NINTENDO, WHY!
That's only part of the picture but here a link:
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/03/14/b...pulls-its-saturn-video-console-us-market.html
DC was surely a bad idea (financially) for Sega but there was pride involved so they tried another go.
When Ookawa died it was all over.
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