Support NeoGAF

[Pie and Beans]

Interesting post. What role does Atsushi Asada have at Nintendo?

So if it's true what you are saying, then yeah Iwata's role is a lot smaller in DS and Wii than I thought. Hmm.

From N-Sider: http://www.n-sider.com/personnelview.php?personnelid=398

"With dwindling sales of GameCube, Asada and president Satoru Iwata began having discussions about the large consumer base being ignored due to the industry trend of only developing sequels or new titles that were more complicated versions of games already released. These discussions molded a vision that required the creation of new video games and intellectual properties that would spark appeal and interest of new gamers. The Nintendo DS and Wii are an extension of those goals. Games such as Brain Age, Nintendogs, and Animal Crossing are the results."

If Iwata started the discussion, then his role is big as I thought. So what is it?!

On Asada:

Someone asked if I could provide some more information on one of Nintendo's most mysterious executives, Atsushi Asada.

Mr. Asada is most famous for being at the helm of Nintendo when Mr. Yamauchi decided to retire. Asada was the head of a 6 person "Executive Committee" that ran the Company for a few years while Yamauchi carefully oversaw how everything ran without him.


Without any further ado, this is the information I have on him:

Atsushi Asada

March 1933 - Born in Osaka

April 1955 - Joined Sharp (then Hayakawa Electric Company Co., Ltd.)

1960s - Head development on Electronic Calculators by designing logic circuits

June 1977 - Appointed to Sharp's Board of Directors, Deputy General Manager of Industrial Equipment Division

1980s - Worked on early PC development

Picture - Atsushi Asada in 1983:

April 1988 - Appointed as Sharp's Corporate Senior Executive Vice President

1996-1997 - President of Japan Business Machines and Information System Industries Association

December 1999 - Resigned from Sharp
December 1999 - Joined Nintendo Co., Ltd. as a Senior Advisor

June 2000 - Appointed Executive Vice President of Nintendo Co., Ltd.

September 2001 - Purchased Wii technology from Tom Quinn after Microsoft and Sony laughed at it...it's thanks to Mr. Asada that Nintendo was able to develop the Wii and revive its fortunes

2001-2002 - Made many public announcements / appearances at trade shows about the GameCube

Video - Atsushi Asada announcing the price of the GameCube of Japan (Clip 3 of 7)
http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//RTV/2001/08/23/108230037/?s=technology

Picture - Atsushi Asada at Nintendo:

May 2002 - Appointed Chairman of the Board of Nintendo Co., Ltd....Company is run by Executive Committee of Satoru Iwata, Atsushi Asada, Shigeru Miyamoto, Shinji Hatano, Genyo Takeda, and Yoshihiro Mori with Hiroshi Yamauchi overseeing and Atsushi Asada having the final word

2004 - Suggested that Nintendo develop games for radically new audiences like seniors, led to the development of games like Brain Age

November 2004 - Launched the Nintendo DS

June 2005 - Resigned (along with Hiroshi Yamauchi) from Nintendo...serves as an Executive Advisor who Iwata could approach if he wants guidance....Iwata takes full control of the company

February 2007 - Gave a lecture at Osaka Securities Exchange

May 2008 - Gave a lecture at a seminar about the history of digital consumer electronics

March 2009 - Advisor to a new startup company "Eye and On," which provides corporate education and training through a variety of hands-on and multimedia methods

2013 - Still alive as far as I'm aware (I haven't found any record of an obituary or his death)

So despite laying the groundwork for the Wii entirely, he remains Nintendo's probably biggest unsung hero and slunk out to resign without anyone really knowing.

DS you can attribute more to Iwata I feel, but even then Asada's hand steering the idea of a focus on older players is a pretty key one.

This tale just helps to reinforce that consoles are in the making for a lot longer than imagined, and throwing Wii and DS solely at Iwata's feet is a mistake. Yamauchi still had a lot to do with DS for instance. 3DS and WiiU however would certainly be an all Iwata show and they somehow seem to lack the forethought of their predecessors.

 

[Coolwhip]

http://*****.com/article/3363/Nintendo-management-structure-fully-disclosed

(from 2002)

We recently brought you news of the management shake-up taking place at Nintendo’s Kyoto headquarters, which saw legendary president Hiroshi Yamauchi finally step down, relinquishing command after almost half a century at the company helm.

Nintendo has now fully revealed how the company will be structured at the top tier.

A board of six executives has been appointed to take control of all Nintendo’s operational matters, from development to distribution. The six appointees are Satoru Iwata, Atsushi Asada, Shigeru Miyamoto, Shinji Hatano, Genyo Takeda, and Yoshihiro Mori, all of who will work under close guidance of former president Yamauchi.

Though Satoru Iwata will hold the title of president, all decisions will be made jointly by the board of six. The concept behind the management structure is to ensure that all essential business matters receive equal consideration at board level.

So this board of 6 would need to change too if Nintendo were to radically change.

@Pie and Beans, the Asada dude is one of them apparantly. Or was in 2002 at least. Aha, gone I see in your post.

 

[antitrop]

That release schedule is straight dire. I hope Wii U owners have a backlog or something, because damn.

 

[Mlatador]

Nintendo should meet third-parties half way. Getting your hardware up to par (or a bit north) of the prior generation of hardware still leaves third-parties in the same place they were with the Wii: forced to deal with underpowered hardware.
.

Yes, but Alien: Isolation comes for PS360 as well. Where is the problem now? Same question for all the other PS360/PS4 multiplats.

 

[Cheerilee]

Yeah, I just wanted to say that. Iwata WAS respnsible for the Wii = huge success DS= huge success, and he displayed great foresight with the 3DS ambassador pirce cut, with the outcome that the 3DS is doing very well now.

Hindsight, not foresight. When the GameCube was just starting to fail, Iwata cut production rather than cutting the price. Shockingly, that did nothing to help the GameCube.

Iwata gets too much of a pass for his GameCube-era failures.

 

[Estocolmo]

Nothing changes at Nintendo.

They are where they are because they don't respond to market forces or trends.

1+

 

[Pie and Beans]

http://*****.com/article/3363/Nintendo-management-structure-fully-disclosed

(from 2002)



So this board of 6 would need to change too if Nintendo were to radically change.

@Pie and Beans, the Asada dude is one of them apparantly. Or was in 2002 at least. Aha, gone I see in your post.

Iwata, Miyamoto, and Takeda definitely need to be relieved of their power and replaced with new blood more clued into the tech and software scene of 2014. If Hatano and Mori are still around, theyre about to turn 70 soon and... well... yes, I can't imagine theyre doing much these days.

 

[Mlatador]

Hindsight, not foresight. When the GameCube was just starting to fail, Iwata cut production rather than cutting the price. Shockingly, that did nothing to help the GameCube.

Iwata gets too much of a pass for his GameCube-era failures.

Well, foresight in the sense that the price cut came very fast, was very well executed and was massive (80 Euros in Europe). The whole ambassador program to compensate for it, all before the the 3DS's first christmas-period.

In two month, right before christmas, it was all set and done. The media shut up, gamers shut up. I've never seen a company execute such a dramatic move sooo smothly, without completely screwing their early adopters.

 

[Coolwhip]

Iwata, Miyamoto, and Takeda definitely need to be relieved of their power and replaced with new blood more clued into the tech and software scene of 2014. If Hatano and Mori are still around, theyre about to turn 70 soon and... well... yes, I can't imagine theyre doing much these days.

I'm curious who is on the board currently. But yes, there needs to be fresh blood in there, especially in these crazy times in the tech world.

 

[Kerub]

That release schedule is straight dire. I hope Wii U owners have a backlog or something, because damn.

I recommend this thread when the drought is in full effect. There were lots of ignored gems on Wii, that you can play meanwhile.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Yes, but Alien: Isolation comes for PS360 as well. Where is the problem now? Same question for all the other PS360/PS4 multiplats.

Install base for 360/PS3

Wii U confused casuals and hasn't tempted many core who have instead got PCs or gone PS4/XB1 after a very long generation

 

[MYE]

Turning around the 3DS is something any goon with a clue could have done.

Its always the case with these company failings huh?

He cut the price of the system, in what way is that some bold amazing feat that nobody else could have managed?

Plenty of systems kept failing after agressive price cuts in the past.
I'm pretty sure that specific software planning and releases had something to do with it

Nor is funding games amazing, or even surprising when they lack third-party support. Even Microsoft (since I assume that is who you're referring to) funds games instead of just buying exclusivity.

Funding stuff like Bayo2, 101, SMTxFE and Hyrule Heroes IS surprising to me. Not only on the choices of genres/IPs, but also on how they are managing their IPs and how its being used by external studios.

Keep in mind that my post was in response to someone mocking people who "worshiped Iwata" instead of wanting him fired, as they should.

Their online is also poor compared to what Sony and Microsoft offer and from a business perspective not charging for it is a bad thing.

Destroying the second hand market would be good for business too, some say.

The bit about Miiverse means nothing of any importance.

Why? Most people with Wii Us love and admit to spend time on it.
It works. Its fun. Feels fresh. Is neatly integrated with games and keeps people connected and invested on the social aspect with a very friendly environment that so far hasn't been ruined for everyone else by shittalking kids.

Its a positive, new thing on the system and it counts as much as any positive thing introduced in a product.

None of your points mean anything of any importance to any stock holder of any importance. Companies are judged based on current and future expectations of profit, they aren't judged based on what people might like.

Again, my post was in response to someone who apparently thought that Iwata giving gamers something good was a ludicrous idea.

Also, good ideas don't stop being good because the product they are attached to is failing to meet financial expectations.
This "none of that matters" argument is especially worrying in a gaming forum. Not surprising though, since negatives have a tendency to overshadow any positives around here. Sometimes to the point of irrelevancy, sadly enough.

Nintendo has an increasingly irrelevant console, a handheld that is tracking closer to GBA than DS numbers, developer relations that are and have been awful for years, no real value-added services of any great importance, and software that isn't carrying hardware like it arguably used to do.

By any reasonable measure the last few years have been disastrous for Nintendo's future outlook. They have a lot of cash so they can ride out quite a few mistakes, but so did Blackberry once. Eventually you have to fix things or all the money in the world won't save you as a company.

Like I said before, mistakes need to be addressed, but stuff that was done right also needs to be recognized and encouraged.
Ignoring one thing and parroting the other is what some anti-Iwata apologists accuse the """"faithful"""", while funny enough they are doing the exact same shit.

 

[Finalizer]

I am lolling at all the Nintendo fans quoting GrotesqueBeauty and everyone else flipping out.

rageragerage

 

[Pie and Beans]

I'm curious who is on the board currently. But yes, there needs to be fresh blood in there, especially in these crazy times in the tech world.

This is the thread for you then!
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=699964

Mori and Hatano left in 12/13.

Ignoring one thing and parroting the other is what some anti-Iwata apologists accuse the """"faithful"""", while funny enough they are doing the exact same shit.

Is this egregious use of quotation marks some new in-thing I am not getting? """""gamers""""" """"""""faithful"""""" """"""""""punctuation"""""""""""""

 

[Coolwhip]

This is the thread for you then!
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=699964

Mori and Hatano left in 12/13.

Cool, thanks.

A picture of Iwata as a reward

 

[Trojan X]

Well. I'm definitely going to buy the Wii U. The ultimate reason why i haven't was due to the library of games. Soon as Bayonetta 2 comes out, that will be the right time for me to buy the machine and a whole batch of games that I've missed out on such as DKC (that game is AWESOME when I last played it at the trade shows), Wonderful 101, Mario 3D World, Zelda, and much much more. Hopefully the machine will be cheaper buy then to make my purchase worthwhile as I believe the console is still expensive. So this is definitely an exciting prospect for me.

There is no denying that the Wii U has an awesome collection of games, but what killed Nintendo was their throw away of their original unique selling point, very poor slogan, and the lack of quality games from launch. If they had those quality games from the near start then I would have purchased the machine ages ago.

THIS IS WHAT NINTENDO SHOULD DO TO SAVE THE WII U:
I believe where they should go from here is to continue pushing the Wii U with quality games, push the marketing to communicate the Wii U as the "true" gamer's machine, push the marketing to communicate the controller's advantages, adjust the console's price to make it more appealing, create more games packs with the retailers together with custom design looks consoles (e.g. a beautiful cannery yellow cat Wii U to sell Mario 3D World), create an exclusive Dreamcast, Neo Geo, Nintendo 64, Arcades (Namco, SNK, Capcom), Super Nintendo, Megadrive, Sega Saturn, and SEGA CD & 32X channels so gamers can play ALL the SEGA, SNK, Arcades and Nintendo console games in 1080p HD and all the emulation bells and whistles at cheap software prices. These special channels should be heavily promoted and advertised, giving the audience the impression that the Wii U contain "consoles within a console". If they do this, I'll go insane with happiness for Nintendo as I would be a super happy customer that will 100% definitely buy plenty of games for the Wii U. Also, they can use that opportunity to sell Wii Us with higher capacity HDDs. THAT is what Nintendo should do and that also a reason why they should hire me too! Oh well.

 

[MYE]

Is this egregious use of quotation marks some new in-thing I am not getting? """""gamers""""" """"""""faithful"""""" """"""""""punctuation"""""""""""""

Wha...Is someone else using this? Did I create a internets trend??

"""""""""""shiiiiiiiiit"""""""""""

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Nintendo could probably make due with an Uncharted of Us since nobody is making any games for their platform besides them. They've got to fill in the gaps. It's not in their wheelhouse I think and you could easily build a case why they shouldn't, but it is obvious that it is critical that, going forward, they broaden their software lineup since they will be going it largely alone.

I am lolling at all the Nintendo fans quoting GrotesqueBeauty and everyone else flipping out.

It was a good post though. Ill quote it again

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Wait, that's the only games coming out for the next 4 months? Uh.....Now you people are being very unfair to PS4 and X1's for saying they have a drought incoming considering they JUST came out.



Not sure if there is much they can do now a this point. Microsoft and Sony have released products with less games and a considerably higher price tag and it drastically outselling the Wii U tells everyone that there isn't much of a demand for it. I said it before, but the market has changed and Nintendo's philosophies just to do not appeal to the average gamer. Not to mention all of the mistakes they made with the Wii U such as lack of advertising/marketing and lack of horsepower. They might as well just keep making games and just try to drop the price ASAP to get units out there.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Wha...Is someone else using this? Did I create a internets trend??

"""""""""""shiiiiiiiiit"""""""""""

freezamite in one of his "all modern videogames are cancer" meltdowns. So.... probably not best to make the same howling sounds that wild beast is currently.

 

[Shmuely Bully]

There ya go. It always boils down to people wanting a Nintendo Uncharted of Us. I'd say stuff like Xenoblade is more ambitious than those but it probably doesn't count either.

Oy, I have to respond to this one too. Xenoblade by all accounts I've heard is pretty awesome, it looks great, it has a ton of stuff to do, it's in a genre that was really under-appreciated last generation, and evidently has really great gameplay.

People had to BEG Nintendo to bring it over and when they did it was in such limited quantities that it almost instantly became expensive and hard to find.

Making or funding games does not matter if you aren't willing to push them. Nintendogs would have been a repeat of the gameboy Tamagotchi game if Nintendo didn't go out of their way to push it and make what was really just an upgraded virtual pet game seem new and exciting. Sony develops and pushes new, interesting games. Microsoft pushes new, interesting games and got a lot of grief when they stopped doing so for awhile. If Nintendo develops new, interesting games but doesn't bother pushing them then its their fault if they're ignored.

 

[MYE]

freezamite in one of his "all modern videogames are cancer" meltdowns. So.... probably not best to make the same howling sounds that wild beast is currently.

lol

link?

 

[Mik317]

My main issue with these threads is that people make it seem super easy to fix.

Oh, just fire Iwata.

Ok? Then what? Who would they hire that would not keep nintendo ING it up, follow some stupid trend, or worse? If Iwata has anything going for him it is the fact that he was a developer and such. Would nintendo be nintendo without that?

Then it's oh make a hybrid and get all the monies.

Is that even possible right now? Would it be cheap? Is it wise to kill off one source of income? What if it bombs super hard? Then what?

Oh, just get third party support?

What if the whole can't sell our shit on nintendo stuff is actually true?

Oh just make a not gimped console.

Ok, ignoring the time that would take... Would that actually work? Would owners of the other consoles really jump ship to play Nintendo games? I mean to me, if you think the games aren't worth buying a Wii u for... Why would they be worth buying this system for... Because the graphics?

There are a lot of questions that aren't thought of by many and yet in each and everyone of these gazillion threads the above has been posted or alluded too like some golden goose of winning the world.

Nintendo has to change. The wii u is a failure... No doubt. But I think many of the ideas are super drastic and super rash when I don't think nintendo is in that position yet. Of the 3 companies, gaming wise, theyaare still probably the best off right now. I am not saying rest on your laurels as yes that is there biggest issue now but it just feels like people's fixes are a bit too extreme in some cases.

IMO they should ride it out. Create new flagpoles to go along with the marios, and make sure the next handheld doesn't get off to a shit start. And then get ready for the next go round. Rushing into anything will only force more bad decisions.

 

[Finalizer]

lol

link?

Read the thread.

For some reason, I'm involving myself in it.

 

[Pie and Beans]

lol

link?

Nintendo going 3rd party will follow the same path than SEGA or any other 3rd party out there:
Safe products (and that would mean incredible graphics) with simple to pathetic level design (this not only is not appreciated by the majority of """gamers""", in fact it's the reason most of those """gamers""" don't finish/buy games that are "complicated").

Oh, he's banned now. Be forewarned then ye who jam the quotation mark button for too long, for the price is a hefty one to pay in kind.

 

[fred]

Can someone explain this meme? Is it representing Nintendo not giving a fuck or being retarted?

Please tell me you knew what you did there lol

 

[MYE]

Oy, I have to respond to this one too. Xenoblade by all accounts I've heard is pretty awesome, it looks great, it has a ton of stuff to do, it's in a genre that was really under-appreciated last generation, and evidently has really great gameplay.

People had to BEG Nintendo to bring it over and when they did it was in such limited quantities that it almost instantly became expensive and hard to find.

Making or funding games does not matter if you aren't willing to push them. Nintendogs would have been a repeat of the gameboy Tamagotchi game if Nintendo didn't go out of their way to push it and make what was really just an upgraded virtual pet game seem new and exciting. Sony develops and pushes new, interesting games. Microsoft pushes new, interesting games and got a lot of grief when they stopped doing so for awhile. If Nintendo develops new, interesting games but doesn't bother pushing them then its their fault if they're ignored.

I'm from Europe though. so I keep forgetting. Here it was a standard release as was the Fatal Frame 2 remake.
NOA done fucked up though, I agree.

The Wii U's not so busy release schedule will most likely GUARANTEE that MonolithSoft's X is a normal worldwide release, so there is that.

 

[jello44]

freezamite in one of his "all modern videogames are cancer" meltdowns. So.... probably not best to make the same howling sounds that wild beast is currently.

Is he the one that made that Toki Toki Tori 2 thread?

 

[Shmuely Bully]

Yes, but Alien: Isolation comes for PS360 as well. Where is the problem now? Same question for all the other PS360/PS4 multiplats.

The Wii U has a tiny install base, is selling incredibly slowly, and even when it was new the story was that companies invested and lost money. With those kinds of facts on the ground they shouldn't be expecting anything.

 

[Drago]

All Nintendo has to do is release a localized version of Mother 3 on the eShop. I can guarantee that at least 40 million WiiUs would be sold over the year following its release. Trust me.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Is he the one that made that Toki Toki Tori 2 thread?

Yes. Yes he was. He is with the toki tori's now.

 

[malboroking]

It's a shame these kind of company cheerleaders and types have been growing more bold lately. (yes I am a PC cheerleader, but I admit it heh), makes me wish they were back in the "bad ole days" of the wii. But damn if this is not the most obnoxious, cherry picking post I think i've ever read on this forum. This is the extent of someone who obviously had a LOT of pent up anger over "poor ole Nintendo" and now gets a chance to let it all out.

Hey I get it man, 2006 to 2010 were dark years for you and many others as the Wii rolled over everything. Hell I retreated to PC gaming myself (and will never leave it now, it's marvelous), but damn no need to try to repaint history. Sony IS in financial trouble, its' not "make believe" it's not "fanboy delusions" Sony, as a company have REAL trouble so "get the fuck over yourself and your persecution complex"

And MS is in a state of flux, they don't have a fuckin CEO! how can the company not be in anything but flux without a leader? Again "get the fuck over yourself". You can't compare "fan boy delusions" about Nintendo going 3rd party/out of business etc with real stories about Sony and MS. I get it, you need to do your best to marginalize them for whatever reason, but get your head out the sand and wake up company cheerleader, they do have real problems. And no I have no need to mention Nintendos because it's well known they have A LOT to fix in their home console market, so don't pull that card.

you need to Get the fuck over yourself and drop the persecution complex.

I also get the fanboy wars, it's been going on since SNES and Genesis, and seems to not be ready to die. It's a shame when in any discussion thread (no matter how wrong the basic premise is of said thread) devolves int "har har persecution complex Nintendo, moar salt, etc etc" It seems like some folks really do wait for moments like these to "get it all out" heh.

He was being sarcastic numbnuts. Gaffers have shit over all of the consoles pretty evenly, that was his point. People whining that GAF only ever shits on Nintendo is a load of bullshit. Look at posts about Sony from 2006-2010 (hell, even posts now from people who understand Playstation is just a small part of Sony) and you will find doom and gloom all over the place. Look at the reaction to the Xbox One. Look at posts about the PC in '05-08 (PC is dead!) Theres no need for you to be a fucking dick about it, but you were anyways.

 

[zeldablue]

Hmm...

To China, it seems! If they win over China...they could break records! :0

 

[MYE]

Yes, but Alien: Isolation comes for PS360 as well. Where is the problem now? Same question for all the other PS360/PS4 multiplats.

Honestly, I was surprised SEGA didn't announce a Wii U release of that. They seem to be close to Nintendo lately and I would assume that it would mean a few ports like Ubi.

 

[Coolwhip]

People that say 'Fire Iwata' should read the thread Pie and Beans linked: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=699964

Nintendo had Yamauchi as president for 50 years. Members of the board of directors staying for 20 years. Nintendo doesn't just fire their CEO during rough times.

And their board of directors range from age 47 to 67, that's pretty standard isn't it?

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I love how freezeamite just seems to be in-between bans constantly. You'd think he would get the message by now

 

[Pie and Beans]

Nintendo had Yamauchi as president for 50 years. Members of the board of directors staying for 20 years. Nintendo doesn't just fire their CEO during rough times.

Yamauchi couldnt be fired because he WAS Nintendo. Even then, when did he have to take a step back? Gamecube time.

WiiU is a bigger disaster than Gamecube, so... draw your own parallels.

 

[Freezie KO]

In other words, those new IPs he mentioned "don't count".
Love how you brushed off 101.

Of course, Dillon's and Sakura Samurai and Steel Diver don't count. Not all games are created equally. They're neither amazing games nor substantial in content.

I readily admit they are "new IP", but that's where it ends. If you want to put those up against the greatest new experiences provided by PS4/Xbone, that's fine. If you think Dillon's is better than Titanfall, that's your prerogative, but the market is going to see a difference.

As for 101, I addressed it as what it is. Considering Nintendo didn't put an internal team on it and didn't push the game and its entire audience turned out to be 10,000 people with a small cult following, it's just not a huge effort from them. It's token. They cared more about the expansion to Wii Fit than having any faith in Wonderful 101.

There ya go. It always boils down to people wanting a Nintendo Uncharted of Us.
I'd say stuff like Xenoblade is more ambitious than those but it probably doesn't count either.

I pick Uncharted and Last of Us because those are ridiculously successful games, both for the first-party brand, the platform, and their own creation of new franchises. Nintendo could make an ambitious, brand-new, innovative cartoony game with fuzzy squirrels and rainbows, but they're not even doing that.

Nintendo has a habit of doing just that. Only it happens within their huge catalog of IPs.
They are a business after all, and in a thread of people calling them out for their stupid mistakes, putting the Mario name on the 3DWorld game template probably sold them 10x the copies it would if it was about a bunny, a sad girl or whatever.

They didn't just create some brand new template and slap Mario on it. That's a complete misrepresentation, and you know it. You want to make that argument for Mario 64? Cool. Super Mario Kart? Great. Mario 3D World? No way.

Mario 3D World is a direct sequel to 3D Land, which itself borrows gameplay elements from all past Mario games, specifically the overdone NSMB games, as admitted by the developers. If you slapped a post-apocalyptic aesthetic on it, people would just be wondering why there's bald space marines playing in a Mario game. It's not an innovative game in gameplay nor in IP.

Ever thought that the reason for Sucker Punch and Naughty Dog's habit of dropping IPs has something to do with the fact that at its core, most of their games simply borrow a serviceable-to-good template of something that has been done a million times, but with an expensive coating of cinematic and/or impressive presentation?

Jak was dropped because it had nothing else to offer. Same thing for Crash and I suspect its gonna happen soon to Uncharted.
Its smart really. If the gameplay side can't evolve or change, drop the name, launch and market something else until people get tired of it.

I don't know why you need to shit on those games. I didn't even say if I, myself, thought they were enjoyable. The bottom line is that other platforms are offering new experiences, many of them supplied by third-parties. And Nintendo isn't. The Wii U line-up is frighteningly close to the 3DS line-up and they have few, if any, third-party exclusives to back them up.

 

[TDLink]

heres some choice cuts from me and others that also reinforce Freezie KO's bullet point list for those curious:

On Iwata essentially destroying NOA just as western arms of development become the main global bread winners:


Why the Wii isn't Iwata's success:

I like how you're picking and choosing what is and isn't attributed to Iwata and Yamauchi. The poor third party relations that you quoted from Shikamaru Ninja have little to nothing to do with Iwata. Even the dates don't line up if you look at them. Iwata didn't become president until 2004 so how was he involved with distancing from third parties starting in 2000? No, that was all Yamauchi who started stupid grudges because of "disloyal" third parties who dared to develop for Playstation.

On the flip side, yes Iwata did have a hand in DS and Wii but I still believe they were primarily Iwata's babies. With Wii specifically Yamauchi's major input to Iwata was to keep it cheap and affordable, which he did. And that, to an extent, is still true of the products they release today.

 

[Laieon]

Before the next system get a proper account system going

Yeah, this is something that's desperately needed. I'm hesitant to buy anything from Nintendo's eshops because I don't like the idea of my purchases being tied to the console and not the account (unless something has changed recently). I'd much prefer a system closer to Steam where I buy the game, it's tied to my account for life, simple as that.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Yamauchi's major input to Iwata was to keep it cheap and affordable, which he did. And that, to an extent, is still true of the products they release today.

Iwata sort of fucked that up twice in a row now though hasn't he, post Yamauchi. Yamauchi certainly fucked third party relations, no doubt. What I quoted was talking about disassembling NOA if you can see there. Goldeneye -> Perfect Dark -> Halo is a pretty damning indication of where that went and the consequences its had for Nintendo's home console perception.

 

[Kimawolf]

He was being sarcastic numbnuts. Gaffers have shit over all of the consoles pretty evenly, that was his point. People whining that GAF only ever shits on Nintendo is a load of bullshit. Look at posts about Sony from 2006-2010 (hell, even posts now from people who understand Playstation is just a small part of Sony) and you will find doom and gloom all over the place. Look at the reaction to the Xbox One. Look at posts about the PC in '05-08 (PC is dead!) Theres no need for you to be a fucking dick about it, but you were anyways.

Heh personal insults, I like it! It means I finally made it here!!

And there was a good reason to be a dick, he obviously got the point, but you should relax, it'll be fine, you can go back to crying tears of joy over company sales again, it's okay.

 

[Coolwhip]

Yamauchi couldnt be fired because he WAS Nintendo. Even then, when did he have to take a step back? Gamecube time.

WiiU is a bigger disaster than Gamecube, so... draw your own parallels.

That's true. But it would still be unprecedented at Nintendo.

IF a new CEO would replace Iwata, it remains to be seen how much would change though. If the decision making is together with the entire board of directors, whom will most likely stay. Then radical changes wont suddenly happen with a new CEO. (someone with more business knowledge feel free to correct me)

 

[Pie and Beans]

That's true. But it would still be unprecedented at Nintendo.

IF a new CEO would replace Iwata, it remains to be seen how much would change though. If the decision making is together with the entire board of directors, whom will most likely stay. Then radical changes wont suddenly happen with a new CEO. (someone with more business knowledge feel free to correct me)

Yep, and thats why people are panicking. Things are bad right now with no sign of change, comprehensive change which would take 2-3 years of total corporation re-tooling. The longer you leave it, the worse it gets: Blackberry.

 

[Sadist]

They'll go their own way.

I think they will continue to create new games, learning more about HD development en cater to the people who but the system. Behind the scenes, two new systems are being worked on and because of the rocky 3DS start and floundering Wii U business, these two systems will have far more in common regarding development tools and software. The past few years and the next two years will help Nintendo to shape up and reinvent themselves.

 

[Dictator93]

Iwata hasn't done much wrong?

• He lacked the foresight to prepare for HD development, causing huge problems with Wii U delays.
• He never expanded the business sufficiently to cover the droughts that have existed since the N64.
• Third party support has only gotten worse since he's taken over.
• He neglected the importance of online gameplay and building an online community until 2013, which is something a marketing student could've told him in 2005.
• He shut down the autonomy of the Western arm of the company and burned bridges with Western third parties at precisely the moment the West became far-and-away the largest influence and market for home consoles.
• He lacked the foresight to properly maintain the Wii's casual audience and wasn't able to see that the bubble was about to burst, even after he let the thing die for 2 years with little-to-no software.
• He grossly overestimated the appeal of the 3DS and greenlit a grotesque $250 tag that forced them to slash prices and issue an unprecedented "Ambassador" program for the first time in their history.
• He bet on 3D as a system-seller. It wasn't.
• He never learned from the potential brand confusion of the 3DS's early days and made the same mistakes with the Wii U's name.
• He greenlit the GamePad as the centerpiece of his console without a single compelling gameplay concept for it.
• The software strategy has only become more safe and stagnant with three NSMB games in 2 years, constant remakes, disappointing some people with 3D Land Part II, disappointing others with more Donkey Kong, and turning half their output into minigame collections, harming the one thing that Nintendo still had goodwill for: its games.

This post is all the more awesome if you add an NSMB "wah wah" in between every point in the list.

 

[Majukun]

they drove themselves into a corner with their own hands.
only thing they can do is keep doing portables and go third party in the home market...a new console so early is doomed to fail,abc the wii u is not gonna get up and probably will keep making them lose money

 

[Morfeo]

They didn't just create some brand new template and slap Mario on it. That's a complete misrepresentation, and you know it. You want to make that argument for Mario 64? Cool. Super Mario Kart? Great. Mario 3D World? No way.

Mario 3D World is a direct sequel to 3D Land, which itself borrows gameplay elements from all past Mario games, specifically the overdone NSMB games, as admitted by the developers. If you slapped a post-apocalyptic aesthetic on it, people would just be wondering why there's bald space marines playing in a Mario game. It's not an innovative game in gameplay nor in IP.

I definitely disagree with this. There were lots of small innovations in level design in Mario 3D World, but the biggest innovation was really the 4 player multiplayer, that as far as I know, never have been done in a 3D plattformer before. Cant really get much more innovative than that can it?

 

[QaaQer]

3D World does innovate. I consider new gameplay ideas to be innovative. 3D World brings new, very cool, suits to the table and a bunch of individual levels that also contain fresh ideas. It might not be a paradigm shift like Galaxy was, but it's still doing new great things. If 3D World isn't considered to be innovative, it stands to reason very, few games are.

Pikmin 3's control scheme felt innovative to me. The combination of the Wii remote and GamePad (for on-the-fly multitasking) was useful and new. Not to mention the cool stuff they did with level design and boss battles. I get the feeling you expect them to make up whole new genres with every new entry of a franchise.

I also don't understand this extreme focus on the business side of things. Isn't the game library the most important factor for gamers? Wii U's library is very decent, so to me the system is automatically also very decent. Seems to me like Iwata is doing a good job from a gamer's perspective. Add to that a promising 2014 and I've got very little to complain. As long as Nintendo keeps bringing the software, I won't care much about sales.

wii u needs a mind blowing game, 3d world is not that. Hell, I bet an HD remake of Galaxy 1 & 2 would push more units.

 

[MYE]

Of course, Dillon's and Sakura Samurai and Steel Diver don't count. Not all games are created equally. They're neither amazing games nor substantial in content.

I readily admit they are "new IP", but that's where it ends. If you want to put those up against the greatest new experiences provided by PS4/Xbone, that's fine. If you think Dillon's is better than Titanfall, that's your prerogative, but the market is going to see a difference.

Then what exactly are you asking here? That they fill every genre/experience hole by putting their teams behind multiple new IP projects?
Who would develop what people expect from Nintendo systems; a great Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Smash, etc? Cuz I'm sure you're not proposing that they drop their signature brands all together, right?

Lets be fair here, they can't dip their feet in new IPs in such a way without leaving sure money in the table and pissing off people who bought it for a next gen "classic Ninty IP" release.

A home console without Zelda? Now thats a failure of monstrous proportions.

As for 101, I addressed it as what it is. Considering Nintendo didn't put an internal team on it and didn't push the game and its entire audience turned out to be 10,000 people with a small cult following, it's just not a huge effort from them. It's token. They cared more about the expansion to Wii Fit than having any faith in Wonderful 101.

Sony not giving a shit about Puppetteer and Tearaway doesn't change the fact that these are considered excellent first party, new IP releases.
Often listed as reasons to purchase those systems too, btw.

I pick Uncharted and Last of Us because those are ridiculously successful games, both for the first-party brand, the platform, and their own creation of new franchises.

Nintendo could make an ambitious, brand-new, innovative cartoony game with fuzzy squirrels and rainbows, but they're not even doing that.

They are, but eshop games don't count.
That we know of, X seems to be a new IP. And its first party. And it looks ambitious.
Who knows what else they have in development.

They didn't just create some brand new template and slap Mario on it. That's a complete misrepresentation, and you know it. You want to make that argument for Mario 64? Cool. Super Mario Kart? Great. Mario 3D World? No way.

You know what I meant. More changes have been done between 64, Sunshine, Galaxy and 3D World that you see in entire franchises like Uncharted, Resistence, Killzone, InFamous, etc...

What I was saying is that their games stick around for so long, in part due to how there is a lot of room to screw around with the core formula.

Mario 3D World is a direct sequel to 3D Land, which itself borrows gameplay elements from all past Mario games, specifically the overdone NSMB games, as admitted by the developers.

They expanded on the ideas of one handheld entry and introduced plenty of new ones. I don't see the staleness or lack of inventiveness you are implying.
And NSMB games are used as reference because they seem do a better job at bridging casual and long-time fans. Doesn't mean 3D World was "dumbed down" or whatever by those 2D games that apparently are used as a negative influence in your post(?)

But your post history on 3DWorld is well known so I'll leave it at that.

I don't know why you need to shit on those games. I didn't even say if I, myself, thought they were enjoyable.

The Last of Us is 3rd in my top 10 of 2013. I'm not shitting in anything, these games just don't lend themselves to last all that long.

The bottom line is that other platforms are offering new experiences, many of them supplied by third-parties. And Nintendo isn't. The Wii U line-up is frighteningly close to the 3DS line-up and they have few, if any, third-party exclusives to back them up.

Yes but your proposal of nintendo doing everything doesn't even sound remotely achieveble so what exactly is being argued here?
I get it, you don't care about their new IPs and apparently eshop stuff doesn't cut it, but they are still new IPs being released while developing what they are known and expected to do with recognizable brands.