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[Manmademan]

Moving to a new post:


Just so we're clear since I see Shinobi commenting on the quoted regarding Nintendo catching flak: I do believe that Nintendo made a bed of nails for itself that it now has to get real cozy in. It's not hard to poke holes in the ship when it already looks like floating swiss cheese at this point. At the same time, everything about this situation is playing out like Sony's PS2 to PS3 transition..

The situations aren't similar at all. The PS3 had one problem, and that was the price of the unit. The PS3 was vastly over-engineered (thanks to wanting to use it to push CELL and Blu-Ray) Sony KNEW this, and started the process to strip the PS3 down from day 1 to rectify it. On top of that, consider that the following helped:

Sony's third party relationships weren't horrible.
Sony was STILL incredibly dominant in the continental EU, even if sales weren't stellar.
Sony didn't suffer any lack of software support, since the system was on par with the 360 and PC in performance.
Sony put together ICE team from their first party studios and sent them out to third parties to teach them how to get the most out of the PS3.
Sony still spent a ton of time and investment in buying studios and cranking out new IP.
Sony still spent a ton of time and investment bringing PSN up to par with Xbox Live.

Nintendo isn't in the same position sony was with the PS3 and the above doesn't really apply. They either can't, or aren't in a position to do these things. At this point it would take a miracle for nintendo to improve to the point where things are "only" as bad as sony circa 2007.

 

[CLEEK]

General post aimed at all the doom-sayers.

Nintendo hold over half a billion dollars in cash reserves. They are debt free. They can sit out many, many bad quarters and still not be at any risk. Obviously, investor pressure would mean that no-one want this to happen, but they are a very stable company.

Bring a new console to the market take a lot of time and a lot of money. Unless Nintendo already have the successor to the WiiU ready (protip: they don't), there is zero financial sense in abandoning the WiiU. They will continue to support it for years. They most certainly can turn things around and make the console profitable. Reduce the cost, promoted it with more clarity and aggression, not to mention leverage the likes of Mario Kart 8.

I think the slow start has shown that the WiiU does not hold the same wider appeal as the Wii. It is also clear that it is not an attractive platform for 3rd parties. Both of these factors are unlikely to change, but neither are enough to kill the console. The strength of their first party games should never be underestimated.

 

[MercuryLS]

People that are saying that if Nintendo kills the Wii U now, then people will never buy their consoles again.

If so, then why has Nintendo managed to kill of the Virtual Boy, Sony killed of one of their Tablets and other manufacturers killing of products without people saying "well i will never buy a product from them anymore!"

Virtual Boy wasn't a mainline console and was quickly killed. Something like a tablet is constantly refreshed and maintains compatibility with Android apps that come out in the future. Consoles are locked down and an investment for many years, if you cut that short you burn the people that bought in. Next round they will ignore you, just ask Sega what happens when you burn your fan base too many times.

 

[Seik]

Why is it exactly that Sony can go entire generations bathed in red ink and you wont see the sheer number of alarmist threads like this that Nintendo typically gets in a month on GAF? You know, chalkboard meme and Amirox meltdown not withstanding. Not that Nintendo is beyond cold hard analysis, but these threads always seem to gravitate towards the same hackneyed talking points about how the only way for Nintendo to move forward is to fire Iwata and scrap a console that's been out for one year, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. It's hard to take anything the OP says seriously after that.

Another question that begs to be asked is why Wii and DS are considered anomalous luck, but when a system doesn't burst out of the gate on fire all the sudden Iwata is completely incompetent and out of touch? Imagine if shareholders were gaffers, particularly after the middling launch of the 3DS. I have my own questions about Nintendo's trajectory, but it's preposterous to write off Iwata's business acumen, which had led to some of the most profitable systems in Nintendo's history. Guess that doesn't matter in an industry with a memory the size of a goldfish. What have you done for me lately, right?

I'm starting to wonder when this topic will get its own community thread, because it seems to pop up 10 times a week in various thinly veiled ways. I keep thinking one day I'll click and be welcomed to some brilliant new break down of the state of Nintendo, but the crux of the conversation always seems to revolve around parroting the same wildly reductive arguments. Here's a reminder- Nintendo is already restructuring. It's also apparent that Wii U software took a hit while resources were dedicated to bolstering the 3DS, which is now stabilized. As insular as Nintendo's decisions are in some regards I don't personally believe that they operate in a complete vacuum like a lot of people seem to. Wii U has plenty of untapped potential, and not just in an abstract pie in the sky way, but you can't just right a ship overnight. Development takes time. It remains to be seen what seeds Nintendo has planted, but already there's a few signs of things to come.

For the most part I think it's accepted that 3rd party support is never going to blossom outside of a handful of cool niche games every now and then. If the insane growth of the Wii userbase couldn't get companies to pull their heads out of their asses and produce something better than shit ports and C quality spin-offs there's no reason to suspect they'll leap from their seats to do Wii U exclusives that matter. Imo Nintendo should start money hatting promising young indies. Tell the old guard to fuck off unless they bring the goods, and get fresh talent locked by providing them with an opportunity to grow and flourish on the platform. I also think Nintendo should make sweetheart deals with companies like Capcom and Konami to do comparatively modest retro revivals, retail, not digital. Let the other companies chase after the crowd that's more wowed by ornate presentation than the fundamental joy of interaction. Put the focus on well paced pick up and play experiences and tickle that nostalgia bone with cool franchises that have sat dormant. Differentiate yourself from your competitors arms race. That's what I'd do with the Wii U if it were my choice.

Then there's the obvious. Mario Kart, Smash Bros., and to a lesser extent Tropical Freeze. Nintendo knows what its money makers are, and it's leaning on them heavily during the Wii U's second year. Alone I don't think they'll have all the pull in the world, but as games like that accumulate in the library in concert with more niche stuff like Wonderful 101, Bayonetta, Pikmin, etc. I think more hitherto ambivalent enthusiasts will start seeing Wii U as a viable secondary platform. Sometimes it only takes a few "must-haves", but a library of unique supporting software definitely helps.

Nice wording, couldn't have said it better. At this point they should indeed try their best to differentiate themselves from their competitors. Getting COD (and the likes) ports will only lead to so-so sales while things like W101 may get bad sales, but the good word of mouth about this game (which is totally well deserved) is insanely good for the game itself and the company.

man nintendo fans have the worst persecution complex

Man sometimes people have the worst answers...

 

[SerodD]

Also, having the handheld and console together as one thing seems like a bad idea. At this point, having 2 separate divisions is actually a really good idea.

However, I'd like to see more unison between the two (either this gen or whatever home and handheld consoles come next). The Wii U kind of works like a 3DS in a sense, so I think it'd be awesome if I could play my 3DS games on it, or vice versa. Maybe even take stuff like VC games with me. (Since the Save State thing is super helpful in this instance)

For all we know they are moving in a way that will unify the handheld and home console in terms of software, so maybe will start to see a lot of games that will be out on both starting next gen.

I do agree that having them together is a bad ideia, then they have nothing to fall on if it doesn't work, at least for the forseeable future they will always have a handheld to fall on if the home console goes wrong.

 

[Ty4on]

That's a bit of a false equivalency though. Like it or not, the Wii is the most financially successful console ever. SEGA had multiple hardware failures in a row before they folded with the Dreamcast.

As much as I love it the Dreamcast was what lost Sega money. They didn't just make the Saturn in 95 and had a lot of success in other markets (older consoles in Brazil). This I feel is why Nintendo won't aggressively drop the price and advertise like Sega.

Dropping the console wouldn't be a good choice, but I don't know any really good choice they can do in the short run. Think of all the hours and dollars wasted on game development for the WiiU if they keep selling poorly.

 

[MercuryLS]

They can launch a 4 TFlop macine in 2016, it would be easily max out ps4 and xbone games and be next gen at the same time.

Won't make a difference if the audience that buys 3rd party titles is already locked up on PS4/Xbox One and Steam. Also Nintendo's online "plan" is an utter mess which matters to developers. They had a powerful system with the Gamecube, after a few years of multi plats, 3rd parties bailed because the ROI wasn't anywhere near the other platforms. A more powerful system isn't the answer on its own, Nintendo needs to completely change their strategy when it comes to launching a console, the same way Sony did with PS4. They need to be more inclusive with 3rd parties, they need to invest in external studios that target genres they're traditionally weak in, they need to build a strong online plan. Otherwise they have no business being in the console market, they're just taking up valuable shelf space from other well rounded and successful machines.

 

[Finalizer]

man nintendo fans have the worst persecution complex

Truth. This convenient memory lapse to fuel the whole thing is getting obnoxious.

No one has ever insisted that Sony is close to going bankrupt, and is surely in no position to bother releasing an entire new console to the market, and may as well go third party.

No one has ever insisted that MS may back out of the console hardware space when their new system proves financially unsatisfactory to be worth continued support.

No one has ever insisted that PC gaming is dooooooomed when all the good games come to consoles and PC gamers have to settle for begging for shitty ports.

No, it's Nintendo that on the receiving end of most of this. Of course it's poor old Nintendo that gets shit from mean 'ole Gaffers and other people on the internet, and never leveled against any other platform.

Get the fuck over yourselves.

 

[evilromero]

In regard to one thing in your opening post- Retro Studios and Next Level Games are not the same thing. One is 100% Nintendo while the other is not.

 

[thewhitehawk]

Nintendo uses Naughty Dog mugs? Doomed indeed.

Hypothetically speaking, why would Nintendo be doomed if they were drawing inspiration from Naughty Dog out of all companies? If we were picking bad companies for Nintendo to draw inspiration from, I don't think Naughty Dog would be close to that list.

 

[fred]

i'm pretty relieved that the wii u is a flop. not because of fanboyism,but rather its just a indication of poor leadership as opposed to a dying market. hopefully it gets sorted out, but it may take them a whole generation to get rid of iwata and realise they cant rely on old franchises designed for old kids (who are now adults) when its clear that children nowadays are on mobile and tablets.

I think Iwata is going to go at the end of the financial year. I think Nintendo has something in the pipeline that's going to shift a fair few consoles before the end of the financial year (which would explain both Iwata's (9m) and Patcher's (6m) high sales forecasts) but I don't think it's going to be enough to save his position.

 

[Shahed]

Cant delete this post

Wrong topic

 

[Apophis2036]

This argument breaks down when 7.2 million people bought PS4s and Xbox One's for mainly enhanced last gen games.

The hardest of the hardcore bought 7.2 million consoles for enhanced ports, do you really think the mass market is paying $400 and $500 to play slightly prettier versions of six or seven multi platform games which are available on consoles they already own and a few lackluster exclusive games ?.

 

[Celine]

As much as I love it the Dreamcast was what lost Sega money.

Sega lost money on Saturn too.
It's just that the losses carried by SoA (on Saturn opearitons) were written down later.

EDIT:
Oh and by 1995 Sega ceased support to every consoles but the Saturn to better compete with Sony and soon Nintendo.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Price cut + aggressive marketing needs to happen.

It's a great console with awesome games and features, but presented to the market in an unbelievably incompetent manner.

They're letting a fantastic product just slip through the cracks.

 

[Freezie KO]

Nintendo won't fire Iwata simply because he hasn't done much wrong. If Nintendo had made poor hardware or software this might be the case but they haven't.

Iwata hasn't done much wrong?

• He lacked the foresight to prepare for HD development, causing huge problems with Wii U delays.
• He never expanded the business sufficiently to cover the droughts that have existed since the N64.
• Third party support has only gotten worse since he's taken over.
• He neglected the importance of online gameplay and building an online community until 2013, which is something a marketing student could've told him in 2005.
• He shut down the autonomy of the Western arm of the company and burned bridges with Western third parties at precisely the moment the West became far-and-away the largest influence and market for home consoles.
• He lacked the foresight to properly maintain the Wii's casual audience and wasn't able to see that the bubble was about to burst, even after he let the thing die for 2 years with little-to-no software.
• He grossly overestimated the appeal of the 3DS and greenlit a grotesque $250 tag that forced them to slash prices and issue an unprecedented "Ambassador" program for the first time in their history.
• He bet on 3D as a system-seller. It wasn't.
• He never learned from the potential brand confusion of the 3DS's early days and made the same mistakes with the Wii U's name.
• He greenlit the GamePad as the centerpiece of his console without a single compelling gameplay concept for it.
• The software strategy has only become more safe and stagnant with three NSMB games in 2 years, constant remakes, disappointing some people with 3D Land Part II, disappointing others with more Donkey Kong, and turning half their output into minigame collections, harming the one thing that Nintendo still had goodwill for: its games.

Nintendo sells a product. It's wonderful that you don't think the product is poor, but the larger market does.

Their reasoning is that to innovate gameplay (which is something they almost always do)

They almost always innovate gameplay? 3D World doesn't. WindWaker HD doesn't. NSMB doesn't. NSLU doesn't. Wii Fit + doesn't. Wii Sports HD doesn't. Game and Wario doesn't. Wii Party U doesn't. Nintendo Land... sorta does in a mini-game tech demo way. And as good as it is, Pikmin 3 really doesn't either.

 

[fabprems]

Why is it exactly that Sony can go entire generations bathed in red ink and you wont see the sheer number of alarmist threads like this that Nintendo typically gets in a month on GAF? You know, chalkboard meme and Amirox meltdown not withstanding. Not that Nintendo is beyond cold hard analysis, but these threads always seem to gravitate towards the same hackneyed talking points about how the only way for Nintendo to move forward is to fire Iwata and scrap a console that's been out for one year, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. It's hard to take anything the OP says seriously after that.

Another question that begs to be asked is why Wii and DS are considered anomalous luck, but when a system doesn't burst out of the gate on fire all the sudden Iwata is completely incompetent and out of touch? Imagine if shareholders were gaffers, particularly after the middling launch of the 3DS. I have my own questions about Nintendo's trajectory, but it's preposterous to write off Iwata's business acumen, which had led to some of the most profitable systems in Nintendo's history. Guess that doesn't matter in an industry with a memory the size of a goldfish. What have you done for me lately, right?

I'm starting to wonder when this topic will get its own community thread, because it seems to pop up 10 times a week in various thinly veiled ways. I keep thinking one day I'll click and be welcomed to some brilliant new break down of the state of Nintendo, but the crux of the conversation always seems to revolve around parroting the same wildly reductive arguments. Here's a reminder- Nintendo is already restructuring. It's also apparent that Wii U software took a hit while resources were dedicated to bolstering the 3DS, which is now stabilized. As insular as Nintendo's decisions are in some regards I don't personally believe that they operate in a complete vacuum like a lot of people seem to. Wii U has plenty of untapped potential, and not just in an abstract pie in the sky way, but you can't just right a ship overnight. Development takes time. It remains to be seen what seeds Nintendo has planted, but already there's a few signs of things to come.

For the most part I think it's accepted that 3rd party support is never going to blossom outside of a handful of cool niche games every now and then. If the insane growth of the Wii userbase couldn't get companies to pull their heads out of their asses and produce something better than shit ports and C quality spin-offs there's no reason to suspect they'll leap from their seats to do Wii U exclusives that matter. Imo Nintendo should start money hatting promising young indies. Tell the old guard to fuck off unless they bring the goods, and get fresh talent locked by providing them with an opportunity to grow and flourish on the platform. I also think Nintendo should make sweetheart deals with companies like Capcom and Konami to do comparatively modest retro revivals, retail, not digital. Let the other companies chase after the crowd that's more wowed by ornate presentation than the fundamental joy of interaction. Put the focus on well paced pick up and play experiences and tickle that nostalgia bone with cool franchises that have sat dormant. Differentiate yourself from your competitors arms race. That's what I'd do with the Wii U if it were my choice.

Then there's the obvious. Mario Kart, Smash Bros., and to a lesser extent Tropical Freeze. Nintendo knows what its money makers are, and it's leaning on them heavily during the Wii U's second year. Alone I don't think they'll have all the pull in the world, but as games like that accumulate in the library in concert with more niche stuff like Wonderful 101, Bayonetta, Pikmin, etc. I think more hitherto ambivalent enthusiasts will start seeing Wii U as a viable secondary platform. Sometimes it only takes a few "must-haves", but a library of unique supporting software definitely helps.

Can't be quoted enough....

Sometimes I'll admit I'm getting tired of the hypemachine that GAF had become. But once in a while, a fellow gaffer will revieve my faith in this board by talking with passion about a game or like this time with a refreshing point of view... Thanks !

 

[Azure J]

It's such a silly, obtuse argument to believe that Nintendo's design philosophy would regress as a third party publisher, a position that gives them exactly the same amount of creative freedom as they do today. Like there's this weird fallacy where people assume third party Nintendo means they must get in bed with EA or Capcom or whatever in order to survive. Nintendo is an immensely successful software developer and publisher that operates exactly like a third party company does, with the difference of having their own hardware R&D departments on top of software. They conceptualise software. They fund development via hundreds of staff. And they publish physical copies around the world.

Necessary quality and content regression has the prerequisite that Nintendo games do not and cannot sell on any other platform. It's a ridiculous argument founded on nothing, because such software does not exist, by default of Nintendo's platform exclusive existence. It also comes with the loaded assumption that Nintendo's decades of success, franchise recognition, cultural legacy, a software sales momentum even in crisis are simply things they accidentally lucked upon each and every time. And that the millions upon millions of sales stacked on the Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, Donkey Kong, and so on series are not a result of all these variables collectively nurturing genuine anticipation and interest from people who like to play video games over decades of quality output. That the 34+ million fucking people who own Mario Kart Wii fell on the game because they weren't looking where they were going, and nobody actually knows what Animal Crossing and Super Mario Bros. are but for some reason wake up and find them on their desk waiting to be played. No Nintendo hardware exists anymore? Well shit, suddenly I don't even know what a supreme mario man game is, so no loss, right?

Such a belief also comes with the embarrassing-if-it-weren't-depressing assumption that gameplay centric titles do not exist, or see no success, on Xbox, PlayStation, and PC platforms. As if Nintendo owns exclusive rights to a gameplay first utopia of design philosophies that peasant developers and publishers calling other platforms home could never and will never aspire to. This doesn't even warrant a contesting argument. There is no argument to be had. It's irrational, and untrue.

And I say all of this with certainly no allegiance to the "Nintendo should go third party" mantra, and freely recognise that owning their own hardware brings about certain company culture and philosophy, as well as development advantages, that would change by going third party.

But shit, jesus fuck. People can barely predict how Nintendo will operate in their current state, yet will confidently sing doom for the company going third party?

Also, I kinda want to address this but know that I'm not going to articulate a point well enough and get scorned for it eternally. Here goes:

In all honesty, I like Nintendo as a hardware manufacturer. I like that there's a guy out there that'll do some crazy shit like Wii and try to make it work (YMMV). I like that there's someone out there who thought of adding a touchscreen to a handheld and opening floodgates for game design that wasn't there at the time. It was far out of most people's minds and if it was played with, it was only for self contained one off games and not the basis of a market leader's game design strategy. It's because of things like this in combination with their own game production why I wouldn't want to see them go 3rd party even though for all we know that's probably the best spot for them.

When you also consider that the only other precedents for a move like that (a high profile console maker going games only) are Atari and Sega, it also clouds visions a fair bit even if we know now that Nintendo wouldn't write the company financials in Play-Dough like Sega apparently did and most of Nintendo's franchises have staying power Atari could wish for half of.

The stuff about perceptions of the libraries of other console makers though, that's totally apt and hilariously depressing.

 

[Poimandres]

The irony in all this is that the WiiU is actually a very smart and well made machine. The OS, despite it's initial slowness (That still needs a little improvement) is very clean, unique and easy to use (unlike the clusterfuck that is the xbone's) The machine is also the most responsive, lag free console I've ever used, which as far as I'm concerned is a major bonus. Unfortunately most people, especially western audiences don't actually care about gameplay anymore, having got used to laggy, imprecise games like GTA over the years. With a new trend in streaming to consoles, allowing this to continue.

So you admit the OS is slow, but find it "the most responsive lag free console" you've ever used? For a "lag free" console I'd be picking one of the cartridge based consoles personally. You know, the ones with no loading times.

I also don't think they Wii U is a particularly "smart" machine. Nintendo is struggling to make use of its core point of diferentiation from the competition, and considering when it was released there's no doubting it is pretty weak technically. Battery life on the controller is low, the screen can't match up to tablets/phones, and many see the price as high. I think if it was a "smart" machine, it would appeal to more people. This is coming from a Wii U owner by the way.

As for the statement that "most people, especially western audiences don't care about gameplay anymore"... I find that utterly ridiculous!

All opinion of course, but there's so much I disagree with in your post.

 

[MercuryLS]

The hardest of the hardcore bought 7.2 million consoles for enhanced ports, do you really think the mass market is paying $400 and $500 to play slightly prettier versions of six or seven multi platform games which are available on consoles they already own and a few lackluster exclusive games ?.

We haven't even exhausted the hardcore gamers yet, PS4's are still sold out and backordered like crazy. So yes I think they will still sell very well in early 2014. Forget about the mass market, there are still a lot of enthusiast gamers still waiting on PS4's to get back in stock. Xbox One seems to have lighter demand since it's still in-stock with a lot of retailers.

I personally feel that PS4 will maintain a lot of momentum in early 2014, Xbox One less so. Neither will be like the Wii U where sales fell off a cliff.

 

[Oppo]

The hardest of the hardcore bought 7.2 million consoles for enhanced ports, do you really think the mass market is paying $400 and $500 to play slightly prettier versions of six or seven multi platform games which are available on consoles they already own and a few lackluster exclusive games ?.

The poster doth protest too much, methinks

 

[Moosehole]

Nintendo doesn't need to take further action at the moment nor will they. They will ride out the Wii U storm for 3-4 more years then try again with a new home console when this generation is dying out.

They are in no financial trouble, they are not going to get out of the console business, and they are not going to prematurely "kill" the Wii U. I don't understand how some people here actually think it is feasible for Nintendo to release a new console on par or better than PS4 or XB1 next year. You don't just slap a console together in 6 months then start production. It takes years. That's without even mentioning Nintendo's underwhelming and outdated network and account systems. Think they can fix all that in 6-8 months in time for a new console? Get real.

Anyway, like I said they'll ride this out, continue making good games and supporting Wii U, then launch a new console when the time is right. The only thing that will probably (and should IMO) come of all this is Iwata's resignation.

The real question is when N finally does launch a new console, will it be underpowered with outdated services or will they get with the program?

 

[Manmademan]

The hardest of the hardcore bought 7.2 million consoles for enhanced ports, do you really think the mass market is paying $400 and $500 to play slightly prettier versions of six or seven multi platform games which are available on consoles they already own and a few lackluster exclusive games ?.

Here's the thing. The ps4 and xbone aren't going to stay $400 and $500. Early adopters (of which there are more than 7 million) will happily pay this cost for potential blockbusters until Sony and MS price reduce these systems into more mass market territory- and nearly ALL of Sony's 80 million systems were sold at 299 or higher, and the ps4 is designed to cost reduce much more quickly.

On top of that, Sony and MS can and will end ps360 production in a couple of years, leaving those systems as the ONLY option for fifa/COD/battlefield for the mass market, not just the slightly prettier option.

 

[McLovin]

If Nintendo makes a new console I hope they take lessons from this gen. You can't fool people into buying a last-gen console 2 times in a row. And if you're gonna have the balls to try that again you better damn well have some real games available at launch. A real 3D Zelda sequel or Mario Galaxy or Kart.

 

[ThatNaiveCube]

Woah there, OP. Calm down, breath, and relax.

First of all, if you like your Wii U, the PS4 outselling it isn't suddenly going to make it less appealing. At least, if you are of a clear mind, it shouldn't.

Of course, I don't honestly think Nintendo can turn the system around at this point, for whatever reasons, but they are kind of stuck supporting it for the next couple of years at least in spite of that. I agree that a shake up in the company is needed, and I truly believe that one is imminent, so I wouldn't stress over the "poor leadership" as much as the OP is. Lessons are being learned, both from those in control, and those in control of those in control here, so change will come naturally in time.

For now, though, Wii U releases may be sparse, but Nintendo still has some good stuff on the way to look forward to. I say enjoy it as best you can, and get a second console or a gaming PC if that isn't enough for you.

Nintendo doesnt learn.

 

[flozuki]

Do they ride out the Wii U trainwreck for a few more years and pray for the best? Do they put all of their eggs into one basket and promote the 3DS as much as possible? Unless the Wii U miraculously sold over 500,000 units in December, it's pretty sad that the PS4 has already surpassed it in sales based on hype alone. Although I have no interest in purchasing a PS4 at the moment, evidently other people do, and Sony should be congratulated accordingly.

As much as I hate to say it, there is literally nothing they can do short of firing Iwata and releasing a new console more powerful than the PS4 in 2015. Please take a look at the upcoming release schedule and tell me how they're supposed to turn this sinking ship around. It doesn't matter how good their first party releases are, as proven by the lackluster Super Mario 3D World sales; Nintendo consoles will continue to fail if they don't have sufficient third party support. The Wii was an outlier and would have sold well regardless.

It's time for Nintendo to abandon their apathetic attitude towards third party publishers, and release a more desirable platform for them to work on. The way I see it, this problem is not directly Iwata's fault, but things have only gotten worse under his reign. Aside from Retro Studios and Next Level Games, which get commissioned to work on Japanese IP, Iwata by his lonesome is responsible for shutting down all North American game development, making Nintendo even more Japanese centric than ever before. What they fail to understand is that the Japanese game market is shrinking, and yet Nintendo doesn't seem to give a shit. Hiring an American to develop the PS4 hardware was quite possibly the smartest decision Sony has ever made.

Nintendo still has the best developers in the business, but they're being creatively constrained by upper managerial goons like Iwata and Miyamoto. What hardcore Nintendo fans like myself need to realize is that calls for Iwata's resignation aren't intended to be malicious. You should be angry at Iwata for tainting a company that we have grown to love, not criticizing other people for pointing it out. Iwata is not Nintendo. Eiji Aonuma, Hideki Konno. Masahiro Sakurai, Takeshi Tezuka, and Yoshiaki Koizumi are Nintendo, and I'm sure they'd be much happier if they could release their games on a more successful platform.

Good idea to lose more trust because they push another console after such a short lifetime. And after they just seem to kind of get used to HD-stuff it is of course pure logic, that they will have a lot of Uber HD Games ready for a 2015 launch. At least it seems to me you and I wouldn't be better CEOs
than Iwata

Despite his failures it was also him who led Nintendo into their biggest years, and Nintendo has actually released a pretty strong lineup across both platforms so I don't get what the Problem as a fan of Nintendo franchises is despite the lack of some good old franchises like Metroid or F-Zero. The games are there you just have to play them. There are other people which will decide if it is time for a new CEO and I am pretty sure they will have a better insight than us.
By the way I am pretty sure we will have a lot of salty threads when a new CEO comes and his focus will be games for smartphones

 

[Papacheeks]

Iwata hasn't done much wrong?

• He lacked the foresight to prepare for HD development, causing huge problems with Wii U delays.
• He never expanded the business sufficiently to cover the droughts that have existed since the N64.
• Third party support has only gotten worse since he's taken over.
• He neglected the importance of online gameplay and building an online community until 2013, which is something a marketing student could've told him in 2005.
• He shut down the autonomy of the Western arm of the company and burned bridges with Western third parties at precisely the moment the West became far-and-away the largest influence and market for home consoles.
• He lacked the foresight to properly maintain the Wii's casual audience and wasn't able to see that the bubble was about to burst, even after he let the thing die for 2 years with little-to-no software.
• He grossly overestimated the appeal of the 3DS and greenlit a grotesque $250 tag that forced them to slash prices and issue an unprecedented "Ambassador" program for the first time in their history.
• He bet on 3D as a system-seller. It wasn't.
• He never learned from the potential brand confusion of the 3DS's early days and made the same mistakes with the Wii U's name.
• He greenlit the GamePad as the centerpiece of his console without a single compelling gameplay concept for it.
• The software strategy has only become more safe and stagnant with three NSMB games in 2 years, constant remakes, disappointing some people with 3D Land Part II, disappointing others with more Donkey Kong, and turning half their output into minigame collections, harming the one thing that Nintendo still had goodwill for: its games.

Nintendo sells a product. It's wonderful that you don't think the product is poor, but the larger market does.



They almost always innovate gameplay? 3D World doesn't. WindWaker HD doesn't. NSMB doesn't. NSLU doesn't. Wii Fit + doesn't. Wii Sports HD doesn't. Game and Wario doesn't. Wii Party U doesn't. Nintendo Land... sorta does in a mini-game tech demo way. And as good as it is, Pikmin 3 really doesn't either.

I love how everyone ignores the points you brought up. You pretty much explained Nintendo's business in a nutshell.

 

[H_Prestige]

Why is it exactly that Sony can go entire generations bathed in red ink and you wont see the sheer number of alarmist threads like this that Nintendo typically gets in a month on GAF? You know, chalkboard meme and Amirox meltdown not withstanding. Not that Nintendo is beyond cold hard analysis, but these threads always seem to gravitate towards the same hackneyed talking points about how the only way for Nintendo to move forward is to fire Iwata and scrap a console that's been out for one year, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. It's hard to take anything the OP says seriously after that.

Another question that begs to be asked is why Wii and DS are considered anomalous luck, but when a system doesn't burst out of the gate on fire all the sudden Iwata is completely incompetent and out of touch? Imagine if shareholders were gaffers, particularly after the middling launch of the 3DS. I have my own questions about Nintendo's trajectory, but it's preposterous to write off Iwata's business acumen, which had led to some of the most profitable systems in Nintendo's history. Guess that doesn't matter in an industry with a memory the size of a goldfish. What have you done for me lately, right?

I'm starting to wonder when this topic will get its own community thread, because it seems to pop up 10 times a week in various thinly veiled ways. I keep thinking one day I'll click and be welcomed to some brilliant new break down of the state of Nintendo, but the crux of the conversation always seems to revolve around parroting the same wildly reductive arguments. Here's a reminder- Nintendo is already restructuring. It's also apparent that Wii U software took a hit while resources were dedicated to bolstering the 3DS, which is now stabilized. As insular as Nintendo's decisions are in some regards I don't personally believe that they operate in a complete vacuum like a lot of people seem to. Wii U has plenty of untapped potential, and not just in an abstract pie in the sky way, but you can't just right a ship overnight. Development takes time. It remains to be seen what seeds Nintendo has planted, but already there's a few signs of things to come.

For the most part I think it's accepted that 3rd party support is never going to blossom outside of a handful of cool niche games every now and then. If the insane growth of the Wii userbase couldn't get companies to pull their heads out of their asses and produce something better than shit ports and C quality spin-offs there's no reason to suspect they'll leap from their seats to do Wii U exclusives that matter. Imo Nintendo should start money hatting promising young indies. Tell the old guard to fuck off unless they bring the goods, and get fresh talent locked by providing them with an opportunity to grow and flourish on the platform. I also think Nintendo should make sweetheart deals with companies like Capcom and Konami to do comparatively modest retro revivals, retail, not digital. Let the other companies chase after the crowd that's more wowed by ornate presentation than the fundamental joy of interaction. Put the focus on well paced pick up and play experiences and tickle that nostalgia bone with cool franchises that have sat dormant. Differentiate yourself from your competitors arms race. That's what I'd do with the Wii U if it were my choice.

Then there's the obvious. Mario Kart, Smash Bros., and to a lesser extent Tropical Freeze. Nintendo knows what its money makers are, and it's leaning on them heavily during the Wii U's second year. Alone I don't think they'll have all the pull in the world, but as games like that accumulate in the library in concert with more niche stuff like Wonderful 101, Bayonetta, Pikmin, etc. I think more hitherto ambivalent enthusiasts will start seeing Wii U as a viable secondary platform. Sometimes it only takes a few "must-haves", but a library of unique supporting software definitely helps.

Uh, there were plenty of "Sony doomed!" articles around the net circa 2007. The ps3 was getting hammered from all angles back then.

 

[Mentok]

This had me staring and laughing for a good 4 minutes....thank you for that!

In terms of the "doom and gloom" patrol, I don't think Nintendo needs to hit the panic button just yet. They'll ride this out on the success the 3DS has given them. I doubt that Nintendo will just sit back and ignore the sales figures of the Wii U, but that doesn't imply launching a new console just yet. They may cut the console's time span shorter than initially anticipated (say 4-5 years), giving them quite some time to try everything they can to sell the Wii U.

 

[BY2K]

Why is it exactly that Sony can go entire generations bathed in red ink and you wont see the sheer number of alarmist threads like this that Nintendo typically gets in a month on GAF? You know, chalkboard meme and Amirox meltdown not withstanding. Not that Nintendo is beyond cold hard analysis, but these threads always seem to gravitate towards the same hackneyed talking points about how the only way for Nintendo to move forward is to fire Iwata and scrap a console that's been out for one year, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. It's hard to take anything the OP says seriously after that.

Another question that begs to be asked is why Wii and DS are considered anomalous luck, but when a system doesn't burst out of the gate on fire all the sudden Iwata is completely incompetent and out of touch? Imagine if shareholders were gaffers, particularly after the middling launch of the 3DS. I have my own questions about Nintendo's trajectory, but it's preposterous to write off Iwata's business acumen, which had led to some of the most profitable systems in Nintendo's history. Guess that doesn't matter in an industry with a memory the size of a goldfish. What have you done for me lately, right?

I'm starting to wonder when this topic will get its own community thread, because it seems to pop up 10 times a week in various thinly veiled ways. I keep thinking one day I'll click and be welcomed to some brilliant new break down of the state of Nintendo, but the crux of the conversation always seems to revolve around parroting the same wildly reductive arguments. Here's a reminder- Nintendo is already restructuring. It's also apparent that Wii U software took a hit while resources were dedicated to bolstering the 3DS, which is now stabilized. As insular as Nintendo's decisions are in some regards I don't personally believe that they operate in a complete vacuum like a lot of people seem to. Wii U has plenty of untapped potential, and not just in an abstract pie in the sky way, but you can't just right a ship overnight. Development takes time. It remains to be seen what seeds Nintendo has planted, but already there's a few signs of things to come.

For the most part I think it's accepted that 3rd party support is never going to blossom outside of a handful of cool niche games every now and then. If the insane growth of the Wii userbase couldn't get companies to pull their heads out of their asses and produce something better than shit ports and C quality spin-offs there's no reason to suspect they'll leap from their seats to do Wii U exclusives that matter. Imo Nintendo should start money hatting promising young indies. Tell the old guard to fuck off unless they bring the goods, and get fresh talent locked by providing them with an opportunity to grow and flourish on the platform. I also think Nintendo should make sweetheart deals with companies like Capcom and Konami to do comparatively modest retro revivals, retail, not digital. Let the other companies chase after the crowd that's more wowed by ornate presentation than the fundamental joy of interaction. Put the focus on well paced pick up and play experiences and tickle that nostalgia bone with cool franchises that have sat dormant. Differentiate yourself from your competitors arms race. That's what I'd do with the Wii U if it were my choice.

Then there's the obvious. Mario Kart, Smash Bros., and to a lesser extent Tropical Freeze. Nintendo knows what its money makers are, and it's leaning on them heavily during the Wii U's second year. Alone I don't think they'll have all the pull in the world, but as games like that accumulate in the library in concert with more niche stuff like Wonderful 101, Bayonetta, Pikmin, etc. I think more hitherto ambivalent enthusiasts will start seeing Wii U as a viable secondary platform. Sometimes it only takes a few "must-haves", but a library of unique supporting software definitely helps.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[kinggroin]

General post aimed at all the doom-sayers.

Nintendo hold over half a billion dollars in cash reserves.

500 million?!? That's it?!? Wasn't it at 7 billion a couple years ago?


That's sounds to me like they're screwed in a couple more years at this trajectory

 

[not_so_special]

the fact that a lof ot people think GrotesqueBeauty's post was right just show of out of reality some nintendo fans are this days about the whole wiiu fiasco

 

[espher]

I think Nintendo would get murdered going head-to-head spec-wise with the PS4/XB1 successors, because there's a) no guarantee that third-parties would jump on board, especially with how bearish developers have been with the Wii and WiiU, and b) the perception that Nintendo only makes 'repeat' games and only makes 'kids' games still persists in the market at large.

I think their best bet is to ride out the first part of this gen to see what happens with the market. If they want to salvage this gen and future proof them for the next, solicit the indies who are making creative, fun games that don't require eight-figure budgets and monstrous amounts of horsepower. Honestly, my preference would be for them to come up with the oft pitched hybrid console, though if we get affordable small media I would love to see something where the two consoles are separate but the same cart/game runs in the handheld and home console with some level of scaling on the assets/engine. I have no idea if that would be viable or even market viable in five years, of course, but considering that most of my favourite titles from the past two and a half gens have been titles that aren't exactly asset/resource-heavy... I'd certainly buy in.

I would be content with them developing 'inferior' hardware with fantastic games as long as they shored up the other aggravating-but-serviceable parts of the console like the account system and online interface (Miiverse was a cool idea and a good first step, but I'd love to see them work on more voice/video integration and a better infrastructure than what they have). Based on my interest in games, I've only got a WiiU from this generation, though a PS4 is on my list at some unspecified future date, so they're doing the game thing right for me.

 

[BocoDragon]

People that are saying that if Nintendo kills the Wii U now, then people will never buy their consoles again.

If so, then why has Nintendo managed to kill of the Virtual Boy, Sony killed of one of their Tablets and other manufacturers killing of products without people saying "well i will never buy a product from them anymore!"

I don't know if you were around during the Virtual Boy launch but it was practically a stealth release, never thought of as a mainline effort from Nintendo, and quickly swept off store shelves before most people had even heard of it. It didn't have the capacity to drag down Nintendo's reputation.

Not to say that your main point is incorrect (I think the success of the Wii after Cube proves that sales history isn't all that important for Nintendo consoles).

 

[goldenpp72]

I doubt most people bought new consoles ONLY to play enhanced games, i'd look at it as more a further reason thing. I bought an Xbox One to play Dead Rising 3, Killer instinct, Crimson Dragon or Ryse, if I had interest in Battlefield 4/Cod/etc i'd want to buy them there, but knowing the Ps4 runs these better, i'd wait until I get one of those instead. Regardless, most people choose one next gen system and whichever it is, the obvious promise of current and future exclusives on top of superior multiplatform games makes it a much easier decision than something like the Wii U, which is only worthwhile to own for exclusives and usually has inferior ports than even 360/Ps3 :/

 

[Huff]

Man sometimes people have the worst answers...

I'm sorry that the success or failure of a videogame company defines so many of you

 

[Xun]

People thinks "more threads, Nintendo dies faster".

Pretty much what I'm starting to think.

I'm surprised people aren't getting bored reiterating the same things over again and again. It's pretty much trolling in my eyes, and nothing is being done about it.

Why is it exactly that Sony can go entire generations bathed in red ink and you wont see the sheer number of alarmist threads like this that Nintendo typically gets in a month on GAF? You know, chalkboard meme and Amirox meltdown not withstanding. Not that Nintendo is beyond cold hard analysis, but these threads always seem to gravitate towards the same hackneyed talking points about how the only way for Nintendo to move forward is to fire Iwata and scrap a console that's been out for one year, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. It's hard to take anything the OP says seriously after that.

Another question that begs to be asked is why Wii and DS are considered anomalous luck, but when a system doesn't burst out of the gate on fire all the sudden Iwata is completely incompetent and out of touch? Imagine if shareholders were gaffers, particularly after the middling launch of the 3DS. I have my own questions about Nintendo's trajectory, but it's preposterous to write off Iwata's business acumen, which had led to some of the most profitable systems in Nintendo's history. Guess that doesn't matter in an industry with a memory the size of a goldfish. What have you done for me lately, right?

I'm starting to wonder when this topic will get its own community thread, because it seems to pop up 10 times a week in various thinly veiled ways. I keep thinking one day I'll click and be welcomed to some brilliant new break down of the state of Nintendo, but the crux of the conversation always seems to revolve around parroting the same wildly reductive arguments. Here's a reminder- Nintendo is already restructuring. It's also apparent that Wii U software took a hit while resources were dedicated to bolstering the 3DS, which is now stabilized. As insular as Nintendo's decisions are in some regards I don't personally believe that they operate in a complete vacuum like a lot of people seem to. Wii U has plenty of untapped potential, and not just in an abstract pie in the sky way, but you can't just right a ship overnight. Development takes time. It remains to be seen what seeds Nintendo has planted, but already there's a few signs of things to come.

For the most part I think it's accepted that 3rd party support is never going to blossom outside of a handful of cool niche games every now and then. If the insane growth of the Wii userbase couldn't get companies to pull their heads out of their asses and produce something better than shit ports and C quality spin-offs there's no reason to suspect they'll leap from their seats to do Wii U exclusives that matter. Imo Nintendo should start money hatting promising young indies. Tell the old guard to fuck off unless they bring the goods, and get fresh talent locked by providing them with an opportunity to grow and flourish on the platform. I also think Nintendo should make sweetheart deals with companies like Capcom and Konami to do comparatively modest retro revivals, retail, not digital. Let the other companies chase after the crowd that's more wowed by ornate presentation than the fundamental joy of interaction. Put the focus on well paced pick up and play experiences and tickle that nostalgia bone with cool franchises that have sat dormant. Differentiate yourself from your competitors arms race. That's what I'd do with the Wii U if it were my choice.

Then there's the obvious. Mario Kart, Smash Bros., and to a lesser extent Tropical Freeze. Nintendo knows what its money makers are, and it's leaning on them heavily during the Wii U's second year. Alone I don't think they'll have all the pull in the world, but as games like that accumulate in the library in concert with more niche stuff like Wonderful 101, Bayonetta, Pikmin, etc. I think more hitherto ambivalent enthusiasts will start seeing Wii U as a viable secondary platform. Sometimes it only takes a few "must-haves", but a library of unique supporting software definitely helps.

Very solid post, I couldn't agree more.

It'll have to be quoted in the inevitable future threads of the same topic.

 

[Byakuya769]

neogaf is sony-fanboy town, thats why

Sarcasm?

 

[mechphree]

Team up with Blackberry.

Lol

They should seriously start putting their games on iOS. Love to play some Pokemon on my tablet.

 

[RoninChaos]

I don't know how much you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert) but honor and shame are huge parts of it.

Lol how many threads have you said that in?

 

[outunderthestars]

Every time a bad milestone like this happens another "where does Nintendo go from here?" thread pop up, and the answers to that question never change.

This. I swear there have been more "what should Nintendo do/how to save the WiiU" threads than there have been about every WiiU game combined.

 

[ChrisInCali]

Iwata hasn't done much wrong?

• He lacked the foresight to prepare for HD development, causing huge problems with Wii U delays.
• He never expanded the business sufficiently to cover the droughts that have existed since the N64.
• Third party support has only gotten worse since he's taken over.
• He neglected the importance of online gameplay and building an online community until 2013, which is something a marketing student could've told him in 2005.
• He shut down the autonomy of the Western arm of the company and burned bridges with Western third parties at precisely the moment the West became far-and-away the largest influence and market for home consoles.
• He lacked the foresight to properly maintain the Wii's casual audience and wasn't able to see that the bubble was about to burst, even after he let the thing die for 2 years with little-to-no software.
• He grossly overestimated the appeal of the 3DS and greenlit a grotesque $250 tag that forced them to slash prices and issue an unprecedented "Ambassador" program for the first time in their history.
• He bet on 3D as a system-seller. It wasn't.
• He never learned from the potential brand confusion of the 3DS's early days and made the same mistakes with the Wii U's name.
• He greenlit the GamePad as the centerpiece of his console without a single compelling gameplay concept for it.
• The software strategy has only become more safe and stagnant with three NSMB games in 2 years, constant remakes, disappointing some people with 3D Land Part II, disappointing others with more Donkey Kong, and turning half their output into minigame collections, harming the one thing that Nintendo still had goodwill for: its games.

Nintendo sells a product. It's wonderful that you don't think the product is poor, but the larger market does.



They almost always innovate gameplay? 3D World doesn't. WindWaker HD doesn't. NSMB doesn't. NSLU doesn't. Wii Fit + doesn't. Wii Sports HD doesn't. Game and Wario doesn't. Wii Party U doesn't. Nintendo Land... sorta does in a mini-game tech demo way. And as good as it is, Pikmin 3 really doesn't either.

Yeeeeeah, Iwata needs to go. The dude is living in a bubble of ignorance.

 

[Howard Ballou]

I don't think Wii U will end up doing more than 20 million lifetime (at best), but they shouldn't just pull the plug on it either. Spend the rest of its lifetime improving their online infrastructure, cultivating new audiences they've haven't reached or have lost (the western audience, specifically), and talking closely (like, starting yesterday) with third-parties about what they're looking for in their next console. Spend the rest of the generation trying to build goodwill.

 

[Azure J]

The situations aren't similar at all. The PS3 had one problem, and that was the price of the unit. The PS3 was vastly over-engineered (thanks to wanting to use it to push CELL and Blu-Ray) Sony KNEW this, and started the process to strip the PS3 down from day 1 to rectify it. On top of that, consider that the following helped:

Sony's third party relationships weren't horrible.
Sony was STILL incredibly dominant in the continental EU, even if sales weren't stellar.
Sony didn't suffer any lack of software support, since the system was on par with the 360 and PC in performance.
Sony put together ICE team from their first party studios and sent them out to third parties to teach them how to get the most out of the PS3.
Sony still spent a ton of time and investment in buying studios and cranking out new IP.
Sony still spent a ton of time and investment bringing PSN up to par with Xbox Live.

Nintendo isn't in the same position sony was with the PS3 and the above doesn't really apply. They either can't, or aren't in a position to do these things. At this point it would take a miracle for nintendo to improve to the point where things are "only" as bad as sony circa 2007.

Admittedly, I think I need to start re-wording that initial observation because you're right, Nintendo has a lot more wrong under the hood than Sony did going into PS3. (I thought I highlighted that much enough later in my post.) I was trying to make an analogue to how comparatively "fucked" everyone claimed the two systems to be at the time of their release. Sony's job was easier in that they just had to move into mass market pricing while churning out games. They also played the long game and collected data, jettisoned bad ideas for the sake of future products like overpriced exotic hardware and numerous practices while getting fresh blood on board asap, and maintained their services while experimenting with new ones.

I don't see how Nintendo can't learn and use the same pattern to better themselves and be ready with something that can get people to sit up and be excited for. As someone who was pretty prevalent in the first few Wii U Speculation Threads, all the majority really wanted was Wii: 2013 Edition; better online, Virtual Console that wasn't handled like a afterthought, specs that would put it in an actual competitive range with PS4 (which would later on turn out to be WILDLY more affordable and well thought out than even our most conservative guesses), better user interface, and concessions for gamers who weren't enamored by motion controls (break apart controller with a standard dual analogue form, maaaaaaybe two pointers). The potential of just that got a lot of people excited until the reality happened. While it might be a generation late, I'd really like to see what would happen if Nintendo just trimmed all the useless fat and said "we're here to play" the end.

 

[Freezie KO]

I love how everyone ignores the points you brought up. You pretty much explained Nintendo's business in a nutshell.

Well, thank you for reading it at least.

Sigh.

 

[MYE]

A Hiring an American to develop the PS4 hardware was quite possibly the smartest decision Sony has ever made.

Bless them Americans, telling the rest of the world how its done!

 

[Finalizer]

Lol how many threads have you said that in?

I don't know if he's done it more than others, but the message in itself is just a reference to an infamous post by someone else many moons ago. Just think it a joke post whenever you see it come up.

 

[TheWorthyEdge]

In all honesty the WiiU makes me sick. I want one but I'm not going o be someone stuck with a console where there are 2 games coming out every 6 months. (Ik, over exaggeration but still......)

 

[Anth0ny]

Why is it exactly that Sony can go entire generations bathed in red ink and you wont see the sheer number of alarmist threads like this that Nintendo typically gets in a month on GAF? You know, chalkboard meme and Amirox meltdown not withstanding. Not that Nintendo is beyond cold hard analysis, but these threads always seem to gravitate towards the same hackneyed talking points about how the only way for Nintendo to move forward is to fire Iwata and scrap a console that's been out for one year, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. It's hard to take anything the OP says seriously after that.

Another question that begs to be asked is why Wii and DS are considered anomalous luck, but when a system doesn't burst out of the gate on fire all the sudden Iwata is completely incompetent and out of touch? Imagine if shareholders were gaffers, particularly after the middling launch of the 3DS. I have my own questions about Nintendo's trajectory, but it's preposterous to write off Iwata's business acumen, which had led to some of the most profitable systems in Nintendo's history. Guess that doesn't matter in an industry with a memory the size of a goldfish. What have you done for me lately, right?

I'm starting to wonder when this topic will get its own community thread, because it seems to pop up 10 times a week in various thinly veiled ways. I keep thinking one day I'll click and be welcomed to some brilliant new break down of the state of Nintendo, but the crux of the conversation always seems to revolve around parroting the same wildly reductive arguments. Here's a reminder- Nintendo is already restructuring. It's also apparent that Wii U software took a hit while resources were dedicated to bolstering the 3DS, which is now stabilized. As insular as Nintendo's decisions are in some regards I don't personally believe that they operate in a complete vacuum like a lot of people seem to. Wii U has plenty of untapped potential, and not just in an abstract pie in the sky way, but you can't just right a ship overnight. Development takes time. It remains to be seen what seeds Nintendo has planted, but already there's a few signs of things to come.

For the most part I think it's accepted that 3rd party support is never going to blossom outside of a handful of cool niche games every now and then. If the insane growth of the Wii userbase couldn't get companies to pull their heads out of their asses and produce something better than shit ports and C quality spin-offs there's no reason to suspect they'll leap from their seats to do Wii U exclusives that matter. Imo Nintendo should start money hatting promising young indies. Tell the old guard to fuck off unless they bring the goods, and get fresh talent locked by providing them with an opportunity to grow and flourish on the platform. I also think Nintendo should make sweetheart deals with companies like Capcom and Konami to do comparatively modest retro revivals, retail, not digital. Let the other companies chase after the crowd that's more wowed by ornate presentation than the fundamental joy of interaction. Put the focus on well paced pick up and play experiences and tickle that nostalgia bone with cool franchises that have sat dormant. Differentiate yourself from your competitors arms race. That's what I'd do with the Wii U if it were my choice.

Then there's the obvious. Mario Kart, Smash Bros., and to a lesser extent Tropical Freeze. Nintendo knows what its money makers are, and it's leaning on them heavily during the Wii U's second year. Alone I don't think they'll have all the pull in the world, but as games like that accumulate in the library in concert with more niche stuff like Wonderful 101, Bayonetta, Pikmin, etc. I think more hitherto ambivalent enthusiasts will start seeing Wii U as a viable secondary platform. Sometimes it only takes a few "must-haves", but a library of unique supporting software definitely helps.

It was exactly the same with PS3 during those early days. Wii U is selling worse at $299 than the PS3 was at $599. These numbers are historically bad. Of course there are going to be doom and gloom posts. Of course there are going to be "Fire Iwata!" posts.

Nintendo is fine. They are in such a position that they can endure 2 or 3 more Wii U level failures. But the Wii U is failing. Hard. It's going to be a topic of discussion on a board like this. A frequent topic of discussion.

And it absolutely is "what have you done for me lately?" in the business world. If you can't produce, and you can't reach expectations (or even come within the same fucking realm of expectations), you can't be surprised when changes are made. No matter how great you've done 6 years ago.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

Iwata hasn't done much wrong?

• He lacked the foresight to prepare for HD development, causing huge problems with Wii U delays.
• He never expanded the business sufficiently to cover the droughts that have existed since the N64.
• Third party support has only gotten worse since he's taken over.
• He neglected the importance of online gameplay and building an online community until 2013, which is something a marketing student could've told him in 2005.
• He shut down the autonomy of the Western arm of the company and burned bridges with Western third parties at precisely the moment the West became far-and-away the largest influence and market for home consoles.
• He lacked the foresight to properly maintain the Wii's casual audience and wasn't able to see that the bubble was about to burst, even after he let the thing die for 2 years with little-to-no software.
• He grossly overestimated the appeal of the 3DS and greenlit a grotesque $250 tag that forced them to slash prices and issue an unprecedented "Ambassador" program for the first time in their history.
• He bet on 3D as a system-seller. It wasn't.
• He never learned from the potential brand confusion of the 3DS's early days and made the same mistakes with the Wii U's name.
• He greenlit the GamePad as the centerpiece of his console without a single compelling gameplay concept for it.
• The software strategy has only become more safe and stagnant with three NSMB games in 2 years, constant remakes, disappointing some people with 3D Land Part II, disappointing others with more Donkey Kong, and turning half their output into minigame collections, harming the one thing that Nintendo still had goodwill for: its games.

It's sad, but it's true. Too bad that still are a lot of Nintendo fanboys defending this man like he's somekind of messiah.