-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
NPD July Hardware numbers and some interesting facts
- Thread starter Lukas
- Start date
Deku Tree said:
It didn't help that it was a remake and that it wasn't up to typical MGS standards.
I'm pretty much tired of the whole mature game argument, however. It isn't like Nintendo isn't trying. Shit, they tried to get Soul Calibur 2 as an exclusive. The problem is that they have few bargaining chips left with 3rd parties who can give them the software they need. To top it off, this generation is almost over and it usually takes a couple years to get a decent game out--it now makes no since to institute the kinds of deep changes people are clamoring for. It's time to regroup for the next generation and just concentrate on not making the same mistakes with the DS and the new console while making sure the GC doesn't wither away like the Saturn or N64.
SolidSnakex said:
Agreed.
As I said before tho- if you were Nintendo and your first-party games were still selling into the millions (mario, zelda etc) and new "experiments" like Eternal Darkness got rave reviews but sold poorly, would you really want to start makin more "mature" games?
They are making billions every year, they have no need to change anything.
Nintendo is associated with fun. You buy a Nintendo game and know it will be unoffensive, addictive and fun, but probably not all that "cool".
It's a shame that bothers so many people so much.
clipunderground said:
I agree to a great extent. I have been very vocal in promoting a Nintendo/Namco/Capcom merger as a way for Nintendo to kick@ss next gen. That said, what other single software house can nearly single handedly have about half of the videogaming market (GBA and GC) and make a pretty profit while doing it?
i agree. The hardware is a big selling point. HD in Xbox is a big selling point and DVD playback is here to stay. There's a reason why non electronic places even sell cheap dvd players. I dont think the purple choice of colour does much as you have always had black to get. The features are far more important than looks here.
SolidSnakex
Member
"I'm pretty much tired of the whole mature game argument, however. It isn't like Nintendo isn't trying. Shit, they tried to get Soul Calibur 2 as an exclusive."
Why not stop trying to get 3rd party mature exclusives which is hard to do with a small fanbase and instead make them on your own? What exactly is stopping Nintendo simply doing that? They don't have to make a GTA type game. Something like GE would work fine, and that was T rated. So they don't even need a blood splattering everywhere type game. Just something with humans and something that's clearly more adult oritented.
Why not stop trying to get 3rd party mature exclusives which is hard to do with a small fanbase and instead make them on your own? What exactly is stopping Nintendo simply doing that? They don't have to make a GTA type game. Something like GE would work fine, and that was T rated. So they don't even need a blood splattering everywhere type game. Just something with humans and something that's clearly more adult oritented.
Broshnat said:
Yup because it had a point that bordered somewhere within the range of reasonable... your rambling about you don't like sports games so they don't "count" on the other hand.... way out there.
My point is this Bros... you made a statement but you didn't do anything to support.
sonycowboy and other have detailed sales records... why don't you go do the legwork to show your supposed theory? I for one would be real interested in seeing the results. If you don't bother to do any legwork thenit's just another person in the background simply jumping up and down to draw attention to themselves, don't we have enough of that around here already?
SolidSnakex
Member
Broshnat said:
Be more specific, i'm not sure about what you're asking.
SolidSnakex said:
Metroid Prime. Needs to be more frankly. 3rd,party exclusives are always useful however as they are already established. I dont think you'll see Nintendo try that hard right now because the userbase is pretty set till the ned of this gen. Whats important is making sure the existing base is satisfied unlike N64 where many were disillusioned with Nintendo.
T-1000_Model3
Banned
Like I said yesterday,Nintendo are weak sauce. They delay some of their best potentially great games for next quarter. They seem to want to maximize the leftovers to its userbase and sell the really good stuff at a time when the Halo's and GTA's aren't just releasing and taking all the industry limelight. Theyre so conservative and non competitive that they draw water rom a rock when the other guys are across that desert dining on cocktails,nothing changes really:b
All they have to offer potentially new Cube owners this Christmas would be a Metroid game where I don't think its gonna be anywhere near a system seller-the general public doesn't care for search and explore type games.
I'll buy it though,but I doubt anyone who doesn't already own the system will. Its just not a very good lineup of games to pull in the mainstream this year.
All they have to offer potentially new Cube owners this Christmas would be a Metroid game where I don't think its gonna be anywhere near a system seller-the general public doesn't care for search and explore type games.
I'll buy it though,but I doubt anyone who doesn't already own the system will. Its just not a very good lineup of games to pull in the mainstream this year.
TheGreenGiant
Banned
djtiesto said:
most of YOUR friends. PSX just that bit trumped the N64. And the PSX mainstreamed gaming (for better or for worse). What does cd format / piracy have to do with your question about how PS1 made gaming cool.
FFVII's rocking FMV + WIPEOUTs excellent licensed music (see : prodigy) marked a huge step forward in gaming. I would even say milestones in game development. 2 + 3 were NEVER big in the turbo CD / sega CD days. It used the format but not in the ways I've discussed. I think you don't know what you're on about.
Kobun Heat
Member
But the GC's sales *are* akin to the Xbox's. The difference in the US is, what, a million and a half? When you're at that level, and Sony's so far ahead, you're basically tied. And, although it's been said over and over, Nintendo did it and made money off it. They're doing better in this business than MS is, by far.human5892 said:
We've never seen a situation like this in the US before, where three systems are fighting really hard. We usually have three systems per generation, but one company ends up putting in no effort at all and getting squashed (TG16, Saturn). That's usually given us a situation where we have a clear winner, a strong second, and a very distant third.
But now, with MS and Nintendo both fighting hard, they're splitting the marketshare that in years past would have gone to just one of them. Historically speaking, this has never happened before.
Why? They're continualy profitable, and there's no reason at all to believe that their next console won't be. Nintendo makes too much money, even now, off hardware. If you're trying to suggest that they'll leave the business, understand that a lot has to happen - stuff that right now you'd be a fool to bet on - before it does.
As I said above - if that's true, then the 'mass majority' is tiring of Microsoft consoles as well.
If you can launch a consumer product, sell over ten million of them worldwide within a few years, and make money doing it, you've got a successful product. It doesn't matter where your marketshare is if the bottom line continues to make sense, year after year. To think that the only company that can survive is the one with the system that "wins" is to be ignorant of the bigger picture.
SolidSnakex
Member
Broshnat said:
Because whether people like it or not or think its right, people will ignore a game if they think it looks kiddy. Compare the amount of interest already in the new Zelda compared to Celda. Big difference between that. Having a mature theme and real characters is appealing to alot of people, moreso than happy cartoony style graphics. Nintendo could simply make the games they've always made while trying to bring interest to a market they've never really tried to tap into.
Deg said:
Nintendo didn't really "dump" the 007 license, they just got outbidded for it by EA, I guess Nintendo could've placed a higher bid for it, however EA went all out for it after the success of Goldeneye, EA also did the same thing to THQ by snatching the WCW license after the success of WCW Revenge, however that one ended up backfiring on them, one thing EA knows is that games sell on licenses
SolidSnakex said:
They tried to do that. What do people think SK was there for? While ED wasn't GTA or GE, they were trying to accomplish the same goal. Unfortunately it failed for a number of reasons.
I won't go more into Nintendo's own development teams. I know a lot people say they should do a mature game, but I also understand that they want to preserve an image of having software that anyone in you're family can play and would not have to worry about anything unappropiate. Whether that's right or wrong I don't know. However, it has been important enough for them that they have refused to go that route or do clone games of other popular titles.
1. Will Zelda be story oriented? Will Link actually TALK?!? - We need more games like Tales of SymphoniaBroshnat said:
2. Old. Very old. Actually, that's the ONLY ONE.
3. Rare isn't capable of creating games anymore (refering to Star Fox Adventures, Kameo: Elements of Powers and Grabbed by the Ghoulies). I don't think that they are seriously making a sequel to Perfect Dark.
Nintendo's reputation as NOTHING to do with sales. The games aren't there.
SolidSnakex
Member
ge-man said:
SK was definetly a step in the right direction, having them create a game in an already dying genre was a bad step. Nintendo would've been smart just to have SK can ED, or put it on hold and have them focus on Too Human. But as SK and RARE have shown, they try but they give up too soon. Not every mature game is going to be a hit just not like every family oriented game is going to sell.
TheGreenGiant
Banned
T-1000_Model3 said:
so the opposite of weaksauce is strong sauce which is sony + MS?
the only title that are massive and that are delayed (wait wait.. read this)
SFA ............... NAMCO
RE4 ................CAPCOM
what does Nintendo have to do with these? I believe lots of top tier xbox titles have also been delayed to next year but I've never read anyone blaming MS.
T-1000_Model3 said:
Bear in mind this year has many of the biggest releases this gen. Some of Nintendo's biggest are next year. Ofocurse this could lead to speculation that Nintendo want to launch late or carry gc on further. Its extremely important they continue to satisfy the current audience. N64 was a huge mess and nintendo games or not most decided they were better off elsewhere.
Link316 said:
PD's development started during and straight after GE apparently. Apparently more freedom according to Rare was better...
I agree that the difference is more negligible than I made it sound, but from where we are now (at least in the US), I can only see the gap widening as time goes on; the holidays likely won't be kind to the GC, and the Xbox meanwhile seems to be gaining some kind of foothold. Worldwide, the difference is covered a bit by places like Japan, but I'm strictly talking the US for this thread.Kobun Heat said:
I don't think they'll leave the business, but if the next console doesn't perform, third-party may be an option they'd want to pursue.
Nintendo has been losing marketshare since the NES, but the GameCube represents the first time (as far as I know) that they've had to sell their hardware at a loss. What kind of position would Nintendo be in without the GBA? They'd still be profitting, I'm sure...but would it be enough to make them want to release another console, especially given that each generation has seen them selling less and less?
Nintendo's first party stuff will always sell, but if present trends continue, there's going to
be a point where they just can't sell a decent amount of consoles on their releases alone. This generation represents something very close to that point already, I think.
If Microsoft's only business was the Xbox, I'd be asking the same questions (well, much more questions, actually). They don't need to worry because they can keep their game up forever. With Nintendo, though, video games are their thing...and as I said above, months like this make me wonder what kind of business they'd be doing without the GBA around.
SolidSnakex said:
trolling again?
Rare didnt make games aimed at adults. Why dont you go get a list of their whole lineup for us?
SK were just shit. Out of the 40+ GC games i brought. ED is in the top 3 worst i have brought.
SK and Rare would have caused more damage than good. Which they already were doing.
SolidSnakex said:
I don't think they gave up, Rare and SK were dumped because Nintendo no longer supports the 2nd party system in their business plan. In theory, cutting deals with 3rd parties for exclusives or franchise games allows Nintendo to be more flexible when things are not as smooth as they like (the slow ass development times for Rare's games are an example). Whether or not this is good plan remains to be seen--most of the the relationship have been created or repaired in THIS generation.
Too many people are reacting harshly to these numbers when in reality this generation is a transitional point for Nintendo. They can't just snap their fingers and have the GTA or Halo killer in their hands, especially if they are still trying to mend relationships with 3rd parties and expand their own development teams.
human5892 said:
Im talking about those games pushing Xboxs off the selfs. Fable and Halo 2 are Xboxs last "system sellers" and if those 2 games dont sell systems nothing will. And there are plenty of people right now on the fence about buying a Xbox, but Fable and Halo 2 might very well change their minds.
SolidSnakex
Member
Deg said:
RARE did make games aimed at adults, not all of them were but GE and PD were certainly more aimed toward adults than most (if not all) Nintendos GC games. That's my point. Those are the types of games Nintendo needs.
SolidSnakex said:
Outside of Bond what did they have? Banjo kazzoie? Mickey Mouse racing? You call that a developer for adults?
PD isnt exactly appealing to adults. I wonder if you have played the game because its far more colourful and filled with kids saturday morning acting. The sales also point to only diehard loyalists buying the game nobody else.
Kobun Heat
Member
human5892 said:
Before they did that, they'd have to be sure that they'd off of third party game sales than first party. Right now, I don't believe they would - just look at the other thread and see how "well" non-licensed games, which make up 99% of Nintendo's offerings, are doing on the PS2/Xbox.
One reason for Nintendo's success as a software developer is that they have perfected the art of selling their games to people who buy their system. This isn't just a tiny sales bump, it's ginormous.
I wouldn't bet on it. I'm sure they've sold hardware at a smallish loss at various points in their history, especially where they make the loss up right at POP with sale of a controller or a memory card or a game.
I think you're putting the cart before the horse. Nintendo's hardware drives the sales of their software, moreso than the other way around.
...they'd be out of business.