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[RSTEIN]

Not quite the European top 20, but here was the UK top 10 for 2008:

Mario Kart Wii (Wii) -- Nintendo
Wii Fit (Wii) -- Nintendo
Wii Play (Wii) -- Nintendo
Dr Kawashima's Brain Training: How Old Is Your Brain? (DS) -- Nintendo
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (Wii) -- Sega
Grand Theft Auto IV (360) -- Rockstar
Grand Theft Auto IV (PS3) -- Rockstar
Call of Duty: World at War (360) -- Activision
Carnival: Funfair Games (Wii) -- 2K
FIFA 09 (360) -- EA

Thanks. I suspect that there HAS to be another PS3 game or two below those numbers. If not, then, yeah... I think having only one top 20 game for December or one or two games for all of 2008 is a much, much more serious problem than being beat 2-1 in console sales. It means the console's ecosystem is very unhealthy, which is bad for developers, gamers, retailers, and other partners.

 

[Cheesemeister]

It would be an interesting project to "NPDize" the MC numbers, just to get a grip on how distorted our view of the US market is. By NPDize, I mean aggregate by month, and cut out non-top 10 numbers.

For instance, I think it is hard to mentally adjust for the fact that it is easier for a game to debut in the top 10 in weekly sales than in monthly ones.

We don't have enough data from MC freely available to generate a monthly top 10, as only each week's top 10 have numbers. Many titles that appear in the top 10 one week don't rank that high for each week of the month.

Famitsu, on the other hand, does provide numbers for the full top 30.

 

[CrazzyMan]

Keep in mind that casuals are unlikely to buy 2 consoles in a generation. So every month that the PS3 keeps it's high price is a month where the 360 and Wii just steal that market away from the PS3 forever.

So far, Wii an PS360 provide THAT much different experience,
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/6848/ps3603rdpartyfc6.png
so i think, that Wii an PS360 can co-exist.

So, the question, are those 25-27 mln. of x360 got mostly from 140 mln. of PS2 userbase or from those 25 mln. xbox userbase?

 

[boiled goose]

i said this before and i will say it again.

Prince of persia should have been wii exclusive title.
The HD systems had way too much stuff for the holiday season.
Big epic games like gears, popular stuff like cod, rb, gh, quality titles like fable, resistance, lbp, new ips like ME, Dead space, l4d, etc.

So many games out of the top ten for the month and out of the top ten for the consoles. there was just too much stuff.

prince of persia was a good opportunity to fill the core gap for the wiis holiday. the game is even stylized instead of realistic...

what do u get ubi? less than 200k

 

[Thunder Monkey]

So far, Wii an PS360 provide THAT much different experience,
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/6848/ps3603rdpartyfc6.png
so i think, that Wii an PS360 can co-exist.

So, the question, are those 25-27 mln. of x360 got mostly from 140 mln. of PS2 userbase or from those 25 mln. xbox userbase?

Probably a little from everywhere.

Wii is where the PS2ers seem to have went.

 

[jeremy1456]

i said this before and i will say it again.

Prince of persia should have been wii exclusive title.
The HD systems had way too much stuff for the holiday season.
Big epic games like gears, popular stuff like cod, rb, gh, quality titles like fable, resistance, lbp, new ips like ME, Dead space, l4d, etc.

So many games out of the top ten for the month and out of the top ten for the consoles. there was just too much stuff.

prince of persia was a good opportunity to fill the core gap for the wiis holiday. the game is even stylized instead of realistic...

what do u get ubi? less than 200k

It might have overshadowed Petz Partyz.

And that would just plain be bad business...

[face_sad]

 

[Fredescu]

Prince of persia should have been wii exclusive title.

I don't know if that would have ever happened, but given how "easy" everyone says it is it seems like a huge omission that there wasn't even a Wii version.

 

[timetokill]

Beyond Good and Evil 2 should be a Wii title too... oh well...

 

[Dash Kappei]

prince of persia was a good opportunity to fill the core gap for the wiis holiday. the game is even stylized instead of realistic...

what do u get ubi? less than 200k

I reckon a Wii Prince of Persia is in the making though, isn'it?
Problem is that the game now has a bad rep and that wouls hinder sales of a possible Wii PoP...

 

[HK-47]

Beyond Good and Evil 2 should be a Wii title too... oh well...

BG&E 2 should be where ever Mike Ancel wants it to be. I'd buy it even if it were DS 3D.

 

[Balb]

Beyond Good and Evil 2 should be a Wii title too... oh well...

I could see that game selling a modest 200-300k on the Wii, possibly more depending on whether they marketed it correctly. Sadly, I believe it'll sell around that much on the PS3 and 360 combined, maybe 500k at the most, which probably won't give Ubisoft much of a profit in the end.

 

[AniHawk]

BG&E 2 should be where ever Mike Ancel wants it to be. I'd buy it even if it were DS 3D.

So would I. Grudgingly, of course, but I'd still buy it.

I could see that game selling a modest 200-300k on the Wii, possibly more depending on whether they marketed it correctly. Sadly, I believe it'll sell around that much on the PS3 and 360 combined, maybe 500k at the most, which probably won't give Ubisoft much of a profit in the end.

I'm gonna wager that part of the deal with getting BGE2 done means that it's actually advertised this time. Five years ago it was "save Mechner's game or save Ancel's game." That won't be the case this year, so they can go all out.

 

[yoopoo]

The new Prince of Persia shouldn't been on any console, its a one hour game stretched to 10 hours. Maybe $5 downloadable would've been better.

 

[Fredescu]

BG&E 2 should be where ever Mike Ancel wants it to be. I'd buy it even if it were DS 3D.

BG&E 2 should be ported to anything and everything that will make a profit so Mike Ancel can easily justify BG&E 3.

 

[Bizzyb]

Ubisoft's CFO was quoted projecting 2.5 to 3 million units as "clearly achievable" for Prince of Persia. He also said there would be a "downside factor" if the game only sold 1.5 million units. From the look of things, it's going to sell far less than 1.5 million.

I know the game had flaws, but I still loved it and was hoping for a sequel. This is making me depressed.

http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/n...illion-suggests-ratings-not-important-/?biz=1

I really can't feel sorry for Ubisoft.

They continued to put shit on Wii and ignore the hardcore audience AFTER apologizing for it and vowing to change their ways with "Nintendo Quality". And instead we get Party Babiez, so yeah, fuck them.

They deserve every bit of shit that gets flung their way.

 

[Aaron Strife]

They continued to put shit on Wii and ignore the hardcore audience AFTER apologizing for it and vowing to change their ways with "Nintendo Quality". And instead we get Party Babiez, so yeah, fuck them.

Well, we also got another Rabbids game (a series that has been fairly decent) and the best version of Shaun White.

 

[Rolf NB]

i said this before and i will say it again.

Prince of persia should have been wii exclusive title.
The HD systems had way too much stuff for the holiday season.
Big epic games like gears, popular stuff like cod, rb, gh, quality titles like fable, resistance, lbp, new ips like ME, Dead space, l4d, etc.

So many games out of the top ten for the month and out of the top ten for the consoles. there was just too much stuff.

prince of persia was a good opportunity to fill the core gap for the wiis holiday. the game is even stylized instead of realistic...

what do u get ubi? less than 200k

Beyond Good and Evil 2 should be a Wii title too... oh well...

Third-person games with free camera control on the Wii, seriously?
Speaking of which, did we ever find out sales numbers for classic controllers?

 

[unomas]

A good December across the board, as the prices of the HD consoles continue to drop sales should at the very least be close to even with the Wii. As long as that combined userbase keeps growing and the big titles keep selling I just don't see those same hits hitting the Wii. Great sales of Rockband and Guitar Hero on Wii for 3rd parties, but did COD WAW even see a Wii release? How did it sell? Otherwise Nintendo IP's dominated software sales wise. And ouch for Gears 2 in it's second month.

 

[schuelma]

but did COD WAW even see a Wii release? How did it sell? Otherwise Nintendo IP's dominated software sales wise. And ouch for Gears 2 in it's second month.

You should really read a bit of the thread :lol

 

[Aaron Strife]

Great sales of Rockband and Guitar Hero on Wii for 3rd parties, but did COD WAW even see a Wii release?

Yes?

 

[unomas]

You should really read a bit of the thread :lol

I wish I had time Off to bed for me. It's good to see Nintendo in the top spot again, if Wii had a little more horsepower I have a feeling some of those bigger titles would be hitting by now and it would certainly convince me to go Wii only. I'm just a one console gamer each gen. How did WAW sell on Wii?

 

[TheGreatDave]

A good December across the board, as the prices of the HD consoles continue to drop sales should at the very least be close to even with the Wii. As long as that combined userbase keeps growing and the big titles keep selling I just don't see those same hits hitting the Wii. Great sales of Rockband and Guitar Hero on Wii for 3rd parties, but did COD WAW even see a Wii release? How did it sell? Otherwise Nintendo IP's dominated software sales wise. And ouch for Gears 2 in it's second month.

You're acting like Wii is selling because of it's price. It's selling because of it's games.

 

[Gaborn]

You're acting like Wii is selling because of it's price. It's selling because of it's games.

Something that should be even MORE obvious now to everyone with the Arcade being cheaper than the Wii. And of course the amazing software sales currently.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

You're acting like Wii is selling because of it's price. It's selling because of it's games.

LIAR!

CHEAP! CHEAP LIES!

It's only selling because of price. That's why the 360 started outselling it.

 

[brain_stew]

well. that was disappointing.

still, go go left 4 dead. by far the most successful new ip of the year

Spoiler

except wii fit

.

Its excellent news that console gamers have really latched onto a Valve title when they haven't tended to do previously. Valve deserve all the success in the world and it looks like they're getting it with Left 4 Dead.

 

[unomas]

You're acting like Wii is selling because of it's price. It's selling because of it's games.

I never implied that it was selling because of it's price, it's still heavily front loaded with Nintendo IP's selling the most units which gives 3rd parties excuses not to put big titles on the platform. Did anyone really think Guitar Hero and Rock Band wouldn't sell on Wii? Is anyone really shocked that 3rd party sales were high in November and December considering the Christmas rush and userbase advantage? Games like Madden and COD WAW are nowhere to be seen sales wise? That I just don't get, even with the userbase advantage those titles should be popping up. It's just funny how different the userbases seem to be between the systems.

 

[unomas]

Its excellent news that console gamers have really latched onto a Valve title when they haven't tended to do previously. Valve deserve all the success in the world and it looks like they're getting it with Left 4 Dead.

Played the Left 4 Dead demo online and didn't get all the fuss, I never thought it would sell that many units. Now I'm tempted to actually buy it even though I wasn't that impressed with the gameplay. I need something to pass the time for the next few months before another big 360 game hits.

 

[Eteric Rice]

The Wii still has a lot of years left in it, as it goes on it's games will probably get better and better. Even the games for the new gamers will begin to evolve into better games, as most genres do (We went from Wii Sports to Wii Sports Resort, which seems to have a bit more oomph to it).

I could see quite a few big titles hitting from Japan. The West on the other hand, won't let go of it's ego.

I never implied that it was selling because of it's price, it's still heavily front loaded with Nintendo IP's selling the most units which gives 3rd parties excuses not to put big titles on the platform. Did anyone really think Guitar Hero and Rock Band wouldn't sell on Wii? Is anyone really shocked that 3rd party sales were high in November and December considering the Christmas rush and userbase advantage? Games like Madden and COD WAW are nowhere to be seen sales wise? That I just don't get, even with the userbase advantage those titles should be popping up. It's just funny how different the userbases seem to be between the systems.

Word gets around pretty quick if your title is gimped on a specific platform. Just look at Madden when the 360 version was the only one with 60FPS. I believe even the Wii version outsold it then (though I'm not positive, it was a long time ago).

 

[schuelma]

Games like Madden and COD WAW are nowhere to be seen sales wise? .

tip- stop using CoD to prove your point.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I just want to understand, if Mario Kart DS can reenter charts so much time later, why LBP won`t be? What LBP don`t have, what some BIG selling Nintendo games have?

Mario Kart DS didn't flounder early on to only be rediscovered later; it's hung around the top being a big success for years.

It would be an interesting project to "NPDize" the MC numbers, just to get a grip on how distorted our view of the US market is. By NPDize, I mean aggregate by month, and cut out non-top 10 numbers.

As Cheesemeister said, Famitsu would be better for that... and I actually have something set up online that could do a decent job of that. I recently set up something so we could make "Top 10" (or other number) lists for arbitrary points of time, by taking sales totals from Time A and Time B, and subtracting the A total from the B total. In this way, we could easily come up with a month of numbers. Imperfect since we miss anything that happens under the Top 30, but not bad.

I don't have all the December numbers in yet, but here's what a Famitsu November Top 10 would look like using approximately the same date boundaries as NPD November.

 

[titiklabingapat]

A good December across the board, as the prices of the HD consoles continue to drop sales should at the very least be close to even with the Wii. As long as that combined userbase keeps growing and the big titles keep selling I just don't see those same hits hitting the Wii. Great sales of Rockband and Guitar Hero on Wii for 3rd parties, but did COD WAW even see a Wii release? How did it sell? Otherwise Nintendo IP's dominated software sales wise. And ouch for Gears 2 in it's second month.

You might wanna look at the trends again.

The 360 is barely growing while the PS3 is actually contracting. The Wii on the otherhand is just exploding.

Granted yoy, the ps3 grew but the last couple month's trends point to a change of direction for sony.

 

[Dirtbag]

You're acting like Wii is selling because of it's price. It's selling because of it's games.

Sort of agree...
I agree that wii is not selling because of it's price, but wouldn't use the word 'games' instead 'experience.' Largely the same thing, but I think it's a better way of encapsulating the vibe, and allows for the interface argument to play equal parts in it's sales success.

The wii is seeing a perfect storm of success right now.. a great launch price point giving it amazing sales from the start / innovative interface removing the intimidation factor for new gamers / amazing pre-launch and sustained hype / and a few good games, many with mass-appeal and charm.

When people look at products that defined this decade, I'd imagine high marks for Wii (and ps2/dvd).

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Granted, R2, VC, and P4 are still in plastic here. I came out for a lot of the Playstation Family exclusives last year. With me, it's preaching to the choir. I'm not the one they need to reach obviously. This is actually kinda sad to see. Their exclusives are good games, I think that the playstation name has been sullied to a point where it doesn't matter, at least for this gen.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Sort of agree...
I agree that wii is not selling because of it's price, but wouldn't use the word 'games' instead 'experience.' Largely the same thing, but I think it's a better way of encapsulating the vibe.

It seems like a way of excusing it's success to me. I've barely bought any Wii games in 2008 but people are buying Wiis for the purest reason possible; games like Wii Sports, Play, Mario Kart etc all fill a huge gap in the market Sony and Microsoft can't. While they're not all the kind of games we want, they're games very much in the style of what has been popular before with a large audience.

 

[Liabe Brave]

I think having only one top 20 game for December or one or two games for all of 2008 is a much, much more serious problem than being beat 2-1 in console sales. It means the console's ecosystem is very unhealthy, which is bad for developers, gamers, retailers, and other partners.

No, it doesn't necessarily mean that. There are three factors which determine what titles will appear on top sales lists: installed base, attach rate, and number of available games of any given performance level. Sony could have as many blockbuster games, a higher attach rate, and still not crack the sales charts due to the roughly 3:2:1 installed base advantage of Wii and 360.

Yes, it could alternately be the case that Sony has too many blockbuster games, or too low an attach rate. But I doubt anyone wants to claim the former is true, and the data we have suggests that the latter isn't either. (Their attach rate seems to be about on par with Wii.)

 

[Dirtbag]

It seems like a way of excusing it's success to me. I've barely bought any Wii games in 2008 but people are buying Wiis for the purest reason possible; games like Wii Sports, Play, Mario Kart etc all fill a huge gap in the market Sony and Microsoft can't. While they're not all the kind of games we want, they're games very much in the style of what has been popular before with a large audience.

But saying 'experience' doesn't exclude games, just I think an equal part of the wii's success is the interface... it's opened the door to new audiences previously intimidated by gaming. Now you can say that's the 'games' and like I said before, it's mostly the same thing, but had these game been controlled with a traditional controller, they wouldn't see half the sales.

How popular would wiisports or wiiplay have been without the wii-mote?
Why I prefer a broader term like experience.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

No, it doesn't necessarily mean that. There are three factors which determine what titles will appear on top sales lists: installed base, attach rate, and number of available games of any given performance level. Sony could have as many blockbuster games, a higher attach rate, and still not crack the sales charts due to the roughly 3:2:1 installed base advantage of Wii and 360.

Yes, it could alternately be the case that Sony has too many blockbuster games, or too low an attach rate. But I doubt anyone wants to claim the former is true, and the data we have suggests that the latter isn't either. (Their attach rate seems to be about on par with Wii.)

Resistance 2, Little Big Planet, and Motorstorm Pacific Rift are about as different as can be. Too many blockbuster games isn't it. Sony just isn't pushing these damn games at all. I don't see what is going to change in 2009 either. This is two years plus that Sony has just been sending games out into the gaming wilderness unarmed. They promoted the hell out of MGS4 though

 

[AniHawk]

Something that should be even MORE obvious now to everyone with the Arcade being cheaper than the Wii. And of course the amazing software sales currently.

The software sales really aren't that amazing once you take away music games (which sell the best on the Wii because it's a casual system), Nintendo games (because third parties don't care about those sales), casual games (there are so many of these). When you do that, the Wii's top seller is Call of Duty: World at War, which sold even worse than the PS3 version, followed by Shaun White, which is pretty much a bomb any way you look at it.

It's not selling because of its games. It's selling because of hype.

 

[Balb]

But saying 'experience' doesn't exclude games, just I think an equal part of the wii's success is the interface... it's opened the door to new audiences previously intimidated by gaming. Now you can say that's the 'games' and like I said before, it's mostly the same thing, but had these game been controlled with a traditional controller, they wouldn't see half the sales.

How popular would wiisports or wiiplay have been without the wii-mote?
Why I prefer a broader term like experience.

WiiSports was made specifically for the Wii remote, it wouldn't even exist with a regular control scheme. Wii Play would sell regardless due to the controller.

 

[Vinci]

Top 10 Nintendo DS Games

NDS MARIO KART NINTENDO OF AMERICA
NDS NEW SUPER MARIO BROS NINTENDO OF AMERICA
NDS PERSONAL TRAINER: COOKING NINTENDO OF AMERICA
NDS CLUB PENGUIN: ELITE PENGUIN FORCE DISNEY INTERACTIVE STUDIOS
NDS KIRBY SUPER STAR ULTRA NINTENDO OF AMERICA
NDS POKEMON RANGER: SHADOWS OF ALMIA NINTENDO OF AMERICA
NDS BRAIN AGE 2: MORE TRAINING IN MINUTES A DAY NINTENDO OF AMERICA
NDS MARIO PARTY NINTENDO OF AMERICA
NDS GUITAR HERO ON TOUR DECADES* ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
NDS BRAIN AGE: TRAIN YOUR BRAIN IN MINUTES A DAY NINTENDO OF AMERICA

Hmm. Does this mean 3rd parties can't sell on the DS?!
Just curious.

Also, congrats to the DS - the new king!

 

[Dirtbag]

WiiSports was made specifically for the Wii remote, it wouldn't even exist with a regular control scheme. Wii Play would sell regardless due to the controller.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Wii play was a bad example, I forget about the controller portion constantly.

 

[Fredescu]

And ouch for Gears 2 in it's second month.

It sold twice as fast as it's predecessor. Not very ouch.

 

[Gaborn]

The software sales really aren't that amazing once you take away music games (which sell the best on the Wii because it's a casual system), Nintendo games (because third parties don't care about those sales), casual games (there are so many of these). When you do that, the Wii's top seller is Call of Duty: World at War, which sold even worse than the PS3 version, followed by Shaun White, which is pretty much a bomb any way you look at it.

It's not selling because of its games. It's selling because of hype.

So... if you take away the best selling games on the system it's games aren't selling that well. Clever. The fact is the Wii has a substantial userbase that isn't averse to buying games. Similarly the 360's userbase isn't averse to buying games and has been buying them longer and more consistently. The question for 3rd parties is can they find a way to tap into it? Considering Red Steel (quality aside it was definitely a hardcore oriented game) sold around a million copies, considering RE4 Wii has done well, etc, a high quality game (or an update of a high quality game done RIGHT) can do well on the system beyond the games you mentioned. At some point they might as well, doesn't look like the PS3 audience is particularly interested in many games judging by sales and what we know of the attach rate.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

They promoted the hell out of MGS4 though

Btw, did you hear that MGS4 is a PS3 exclusive? I had no idea until I read it in Sony's NPD PR response! Who would have known that this game was exclusive to the PS3 and could only be made on the PS3. And it's exclusive. Did you hear it's exclusive to the PS3 yet?

 

[Dirtbag]

It sold twice as fast as it's predecessor. Not very ouch.

not to mention...

Top selling games of 2008

WII PLAY W/ REMOTE 5.28M
WII MARIO KART W/ WHEEL 5.00M
WII FIT W/ BALANCE BOARD 4.53M
WII SUPER SMASH BROS: BRAWL 4.17M
360 GRAND THEFT AUTO IV 3.29M*
360 CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR 2.75M*
360 GEARS OF WAR 2 2.31M*
PS3 GRAND THEFT AUTO IV 1.89M*
360 MADDEN NFL 09 1.87M*
NDS MARIO KART 1.65M

Hurts so good.

 

[Fredescu]

It's not selling because of its games. It's selling because of hype.

Urge to quote tag... rising

 

[titiklabingapat]

So... if you take away the best selling games on the system it's games aren't selling that well. Clever. The fact is the Wii has a substantial userbase that isn't averse to buying games. Similarly the 360's userbase isn't averse to buying games and has been buying them longer and more consistently. The question for 3rd parties is can they find a way to tap into it? Considering Red Steel (quality aside it was definitely a hardcore oriented game) sold around a million copies, considering RE4 Wii has done well, etc, a high quality game (or an update of a high quality game done RIGHT) can do well on the system beyond the games you mentioned. At some point they might as well, doesn't look like the PS3 audience is particularly interested in many games judging by sales and what we know of the attach rate.

I thought better of you...smh.

 

[Gaborn]

I thought better of you...smh.

C'mon now, AniHawk's argument is basically "if you take away all of the 360's shooters it's game sales would go down." Well duh. The fact is, like it or hate it, disagree with what the Wii's audience is buying or not, they ARE buying it, and are buying games (in the holiday period at least) faster than for any of the other systems.

 

[Liabe Brave]

I don't have all the December numbers in yet, but here's what a Famitsu November Top 10 would look like using approximately the same date boundaries as NPD November.

Adjusted for population (I know, I know), this is what Japan in November would've looked like, versus what the U.S. really did look like:

1 KIRBY SUPER STAR ULTRA DELUXE (DS) 1.07 million
2 ANIMAL CROSSING: CITY FOLK (Wii) 981K
3 PROF. LAYTON & THE LAST TIME TRAVEL (DS) 856K
4 CHRONO TRIGGER (DS) 849K
5 MSG: GUNDAM VS. GUNDAM (PSP) 705K
6 PES 2009 (PS3) 416K
7 RHYTHM TENGOKU GOLD (DS) 303K
8 WAGAMAMA FASHION: GIRLS MODE (DS) 298K
9 THE LAST REMNANT (360) 282K
10 WAY OF THE SAMURAI 3 (PS3) 271K

1 GEARS OF WAR 2 (360) 1.56 million
2 CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR (360) 1.41 million
3 WII PLAY W/ REMOTE (WII) 796K
4 WII FIT (WII) 697K
5 MARIO KART (WII) 637K
6 CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR (PS3) 597K
7 GUITAR HERO WORLD TOUR (WII) 475K
8 LEFT 4 DEAD (360) 410K
9 RESISTANCE 2 (PS3) 385K
10 WII MUSIC (WII) 297K

 

[Link]

C'mon now, AniHawk's argument is basically "if you take away all of the 360's shooters it's game sales would go down." Well duh. The fact is, like it or hate it, disagree with what the Wii's audience is buying or not, they ARE buying it, and are buying games (in the holiday period at least) faster than for any of the other systems.

AniHawk
Cranky. Very cranky.
Rather sarcastic to boot.