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[belvedere]

sales: serious business

Apparently so.

:lol

 

[TheKingsCrown]

I can't believe Just Dance 2 outsold Madden on all platforms in November. :lol :lol

 

[Stripper13]

my comic timing is off it seems...

?

I responded to the bolded in your post.

 

[Whipped Spartan]

Why do people talk about worldwide sales in NPD threads?

 

[tzare]

Forza 3 - 175k
Forza 2 - over 200k I think.. can't be bothered checking.

GT5 - 400k

i thought forza did better in the US :/

Wile Gt5 numbers aren't great, that would explain the racing 'sims' on console are not that popular anymore.
However, this holidays in US seem to be about COD (which , as most FPS, sell better on 360) and the casuals going after kinect

 

[elrechazado]

Not surprising, it's multiplat, and had 8 more days on the market.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[AdventureRacing]

It's sold around 5 million, right? Assuming ~ $20 in profit, that's roughly $100 million

If GT5P a $40 game could bring in 100 million dollars PROFIT by only selling 5 million copies then there is no way anyone should be losing money.

There is no way it made anything like that in terms of pure profit. Not even close.

Edit:

Why do people talk about worldwide sales in NPD threads?

There are no WW sales thread so there aren't many places to discuss that.

Also to get the bigger picture with certain things you need to look at WW as well. Obviously this thread should mostly be about US sales but it doesn't hurt to broaden the discussion somewhat.

 

[Tylahedras]

Uh, if anything actually DOES qualify as "serious business," then wouldn't it be sales?

 

[BishopLamont]

My god Black OPS.

 

[Rainier]

:lol :lol :lol

We're already on page 13 and you're just poking your head in now? You've changed, man.

 

[elrechazado]

There is no way that GT5 will have legs like GT4. PS3 games are much more frontloaded than PS2 games in general (in fact i think that is true for the HD consoles in general).

I think the max range GT5 will reach in the US is between 1-1.5 million. So significantly down on it's predecessors. It will also be way down in Japan.

The only market where it is performing well is Europe. It has started as well as the former games but i think it will end up slightly behind LTD (due to smaller legs).

Considering this is by far the most expensive installment in the series and there has been such a long gap between releases sony really can't be to happy with that.

Also i can't believe how much the goalposts have moved yet again. GT5 has went from being this ultimate system seller to a 400K opening month, in November no less, being pretty good. Not to mention it looks like it has had trouble moving any HW.

Hell we have people in here acting like it was expected that it would be outsold by NFS. No one was predicting that before this month.

I can also guarantee that if i suggested that fable 3 would outsell GT5's lanuch month in it's second month i would have been laughed off.

Came to post this, amazing rewriting of history going on in here.

We're already on page 13 and you're just poking your head in now? You've changed, man.

Page 26, what's wrong with you.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

You should have gotten used to it by now, this is the generation of goalpost moving.

interesting, that.

No goalposts have shifted like the PS3's. then again, coming off consecutive generations of 100m+ hardware sales, it was fair that expectations were higher.

everyone else has far exceeded their "goal posts", even pushing them back further just to show how well they can kick 60-yard field goals. :lol

hell, as recently as this time last year, people were counting down the days until the PS3 would finally overtake the 360 in sales. could still happen...but not at this pace...and not before the next generation of consoles has arrived. it's still stunning to think about. hats off to Nintendo and Microsoft for fully reversing the last 15 years of gaming trends in a single generation.

anyone who predicted in 2005 that this generation would turn out like this would probably have been committed for psychiatric evaluation.

 

[Corto]

Only question left unanswered is who or what is the flappy cunt?

 

[Ashes]

?

I responded to the bolded in your post.

ignoring what was actually ridiculous and... nm...

 

[RSTEIN]

Uh, if anything actually DOES qualify as "serious business," then wouldn't it be sales?

for the publishers and developers, yes.

For anyone else, no.

 

[szaromir]

OK, so the unquestionable winners are:

Spoiler

If Kotick won't screw him and his team on bonuses

Spoiler

Too bad the rest of the year was lackluster for Ubi

Spoiler

Hopefully Lionhead will polish Fable 4 some more... And launch a new IP

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Only question left unanswered is who or what is the flappy cunt?

the game-buying public.

 

[Rainier]

for the publishers and developers, yes.

For anyone else, no.

But a lot of us are heavily invested as to how our console of choice performs.



Hmm, wonder if Treyarch are due a big bonus from Activision....

 

[chris0701]

Prologue was at a different time in the PS3's lifecycle and at a different (cheaper) price point. You could argue that these factors could actually keep Prologue at a higher LTD than GT5.

Since GT brand always have unchallengeable perceived quailty for PS3 gamers,to some degree,GT5 has worked as "full-content" release in series due to the infamous production time of GT5.

 

[Truespeed]

GT5 was reported to be $60 million dollars budget, but in February Kotaku listed it as $80 million which was the 2nd most expensive game made this gen behind GTAIV.

Who knows how much more it went up since then.

I could see it easily pushing the $100 million mark, and that's not including ads, etc.

How much do you think Forza 3 cost? Let's do some general calculations:

Development days:
GT5: 2187 Days
Forza 3: 887

Team Size:
GT5: 110 employees
Forza 3: 305 employees

Man Hours (assume an 8 hour day)
GT5: 1,899,040 hours
Forza 3: 2,139,880 hours

Labor Cost (assume $30 per hour)
GT5: $56,971,200
Forza 3: $64,196,400

 

[Corto]

the game-buying public.

We're all pussies...

 

[soundscream]

How much do you think Forza 3 cost? Let's do some general calculations:

Development days:
GT5: 2187 Days
Forza 3: 887

Team Size:
GT5: 110 employees
Forza 3: 305 employees

Man Hours (assume an 8 hour day)
GT5: 1,899,040 hours
Forza 3: 2,139,880 hours

Labor Cost (assume $30 per hour)
GT5: $56,971,200
Forza 3: $64,196,400

:lol :lol :lol

 

[KingDizzi]

Prologue was at a different time in the PS3's lifecycle and at a different (cheaper) price point. You could argue that these factors could actually keep Prologue at a higher LTD than GT5.

Don't get carried away che, selective memory at it's best going on here. Japan and NA it's totally fucked, showing that sane people inhabit those areas. It's doing stupid numbers at present in EU so that region alone will push the game past 5 million, NA and Japan numbers being a bonus. Really wish that EU did not pick up the slack just because of the quality of the title, changes need to be made. 140 employees sounds like a lot however it seems that is nowhere near enough for GT, they need to hire more car and track modelers for sure. Jett made a very good point on how to actually make A-spec good so yeah changes have to be made. Don't give a fuck about how/if it affected sales but the treatment of the game was LULZ worthy, never seen such a big franchise taken care of like that. :lol

 

[user_nat]

How much do you think Forza 3 cost? Let's do some general calculations:

Development days:
GT5: 2187 Days
Forza 3: 887

Team Size:
GT5: 110 employees
Forza 3: 305 employees

Man Hours (assume an 8 hour day)
GT5: 1,899,040 hours
Forza 3: 2,139,880 hours

Labor Cost (assume $30 per hour)
GT5: $56,971,200
Forza 3: $64,196,400

Out of curiosity.. where do you get this number from? (From the Forza 3 credits, I get the impression that a lot of the work is actually outsourced)
Also this whole thing is based on an insane amount of assumptions. :lol

 

[Whipped Spartan]

How much do you think Forza 3 cost? Let's do some general calculations:

Development days:
GT5: 2187 Days
Forza 3: 887

Team Size:
GT5: 110 employees
Forza 3: 305 employees

Man Hours (assume an 8 hour day)
GT5: 1,899,040 hours
Forza 3: 2,139,880 hours

Labor Cost (assume $30 per hour)
GT5: $56,971,200
Forza 3: $64,196,400

A. no one cares about racing games any more.
B. MS released the entire Forza series during GT5's development. I am pretty sure we can come to a conclusion on which is in a healthier position at this time.

 

[Truespeed]

Out of curiosity.. where do you get this number from?

From the Forza 3 credits, I get the impression that a lot of the work is actually outsourced. Also this whole thing is based on an insane amount of assumptions.

Gamasutra article.

 

[Ashes]

Going by the top ten software sales, isn't it most likely x360>ps3>wii?

 

[belvedere]

But a lot of us are heavily invested as to how our console of choice performs.

Before you guys get the nails out, remember the sales are almost the exact opposite in Europe.

You can't exactly claim consistency with GT5 sales, especially when factoring in Prologue.

:lol

 

[Dreams-Visions]

We're all pussies...

:lol

How much do you think Forza 3 cost? Let's do some general calculations:

Development days:
GT5: 2187 Days
Forza 3: 887

Team Size:
GT5: 110 employees
Forza 3: 305 employees

Man Hours (assume an 8 hour day)
GT5: 1,899,040 hours
Forza 3: 2,139,880 hours

Labor Cost (assume $30 per hour)
GT5: $56,971,200
Forza 3: $64,196,400

I just...you're doing too much, bro. You want to start a discussion based on conjured up numbers. Let's not.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Thnis is quite simply the best NPD thread we've had in a long, long time. It's comforting to know that even without genuine numbers off the bat, these threads can still be a hell of a ride. After the past few meh months, I was getting worried that the NPD thread had lost its mojo.

8.4 million, GT5 underwhelming, PS3 going down YOY, 360's rise to heaven, fanboy tirades...it's all so magnificent.

A few things I'll address. Firstly, 8.4 million. Granted these figures count PC sales this time around, as opposed to MW2's 6-something million, but it's still a huge amount. People will look at these figures and say "this is the future of the industry, now everyone is going to make FPS shooters. Why try to be creative when you can just cash off of COD?" but it doesn't work like that. COD isn't just a FPS anymore. It's COD. Similar products, probably even superior ones, will come around and still sell markedly less. Name recognition folks. The only way I see it being overtaken in the foreseeable future is if Activision run the franchise into the ground. And they will.

As for GT5, now that we have the figures the discrepency between it and DKCR isn't much - 30k and Donkey had a few days on it. But still, as much as I expected Donkey to do well (and it has to an extent, though Nintendo would certainly be hoping it had some real good legs for December. Should be very interesting given it's Nintendo's major game for the holidays) it's not even close to GT5 in significance and scope. GT5 is Sony's biggest franchise and for it to pull such underwhelming numbers - even when considering it only had a few days - would be pretty distressing for Sony. The fact that Returns and GT5 launched so close together and sold such similar amounts is no small matter. Now, of course, GT5 will go on to sell millions worldwide. It's doing quite well in Europe and Japan as well. But numbers and reception thus far would suggest it's not the critical and commercial hit that Sony both desired and needed.

As for Kinect, it's hard to gauge it's success thus far. Certainly the WW number is impressive, and DC being 11th is a strong debut for a product with such a (in relative sense) small installed base. It's also good to see Sports and Fitness Evolved apparently being second and third, given those are the three best games for Kinect thus far. And it's made bigger waves than Move, which would probably have to be considered somewhat of a disappointment thus far (though I'll wait till we have more substantial numbers until I make an informed judgement on the thing). But it's still hard to gaguge Kinect's success just yet. December will be huge for it.

I've read a number of posts in this thread that claim that GT5 has received minimal advertising. Not true. It's everywhere. Personally, I don't think all that much of the Butler ads. They're professionally done and actual have a focussed (and consistent) theme but for me they remain obnoxious, insulting to competitors (which always reeks of desperation) and have a notable failure to communicate properly with non-PS3 owners. As mentioned in this thread, they distinctly appeal to PS3 message board fans and, well, that's about it. I don't know if Sony should ditch him, since the platform is obviously in a better shape than it was in 2007 and 2008, but from my viewpoint he's just not that great either.

 

[adamsapple]

:lol

NPD threads always fill up my bookmarks

 

[FrankT]

Going by the top ten software sales, isn't it most likely x360>ps3>wii?

No cash breakdown for the 3 so hard to say.

 

[chris0701]

Out of curiosity.. where do you get this number from? (From the Forza 3 credits, I get the impression that a lot of the work is actually outsourced)
Also this whole thing is based on an insane amount of assumptions. :lol

In this gen,lots of art/modeling work have been outsourced.

For example,even ND let their Uncharted 2 scene and character model work be outsourced in Taiwan(Mostly on Tibet section).

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Forza 2 sales:

Forza Motorsport 2 - Xbox 360 (Microsoft) - 217,000 units

Forza Motorsport 2 (360) - 197,400

Ignoring variables of competition, release windows, console pricing, and such, GT5 sold in 3-4 days what Forza 2 sold in about 5 weeks in the US, give or take.

My opinion? It's impressive for a racing game on one console, but hardly the killer app that Sony positioned it as. If PS3 sales are relatively dry in December (~1 million), GT5 might struggle to reach 1 million by January, which was my original prediction for US sales.

 

[Sohter.Nura]

How much do you think Forza 3 cost? Let's do some general calculations:

Development days:
GT5: 2187 Days
Forza 3: 887

Team Size:
GT5: 110 employees
Forza 3: 305 employees

Man Hours (assume an 8 hour day)
GT5: 1,899,040 hours
Forza 3: 2,139,880 hours

Labor Cost (assume $30 per hour)
GT5: $56,971,200
Forza 3: $64,196,400

Just a few reminders, my friend:

1 - Salary, not hourly wages.

2 - No 8 hour shifts. Didn't Sakamoto talk about working straight for 60 hours during the development of SSBMelee? Well, it probably wasn't this hardcore, but long shifts are industry standard

3 - 3 games vs. 1. Also, 305 employees sounds awkward, why would they need that many to develop a sequel? They probably had a bunch of engines and assets ready for Forza 3, and just had to optimize it, no?

4 - Let's get back to topic :lol :lol

 

[Dai101]

Thnis is quite simply the best NPD thread we've had in a long, long time. It's comforting to know that even without genuine numbers off the bat, these threads can still be a hell of a ride. After the past few meh months, I was getting worried that the NPD thread had lost its mojo.

8.4 million, GT5 underwhelming, PS3 going down YOY, 360's rise to heaven, fanboy tirades...it's all so magnificent.

Yeah. We only need some mamarobotnik gifs

 

[LCfiner]

How much do you think Forza 3 cost? Let's do some general calculations:

Development days:
GT5: 2187 Days
Forza 3: 887

Team Size:
GT5: 110 employees
Forza 3: 305 employees

Man Hours (assume an 8 hour day)
GT5: 1,899,040 hours
Forza 3: 2,139,880 hours

Labor Cost (assume $30 per hour)
GT5: $56,971,200
Forza 3: $64,196,400

lulz at those numbers.

actually, lol at all those numbers…


friggin GT5 man. it makes people all irrational.

 

[teepo]

wait, this month only goes to the 27th? so that's only 3 days of sales for gt5?

 

[CozMick]

wait, this month only goes to the 27th? so that's only 3 days of sales for gt5?

Yes

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Before you guys get the nails out, remember the sales are almost the exact opposite in Europe.

Since this is an NPD thread... who cares?

 

[Ashes]

No cash breakdown for the 3 so hard to say.

Purely by the black op sales, then ac:B, the x360 would lead by so much that the difference is apparent already. And unless just dance 2 is doing near ps3 black op numbers, I don't see how the ps3 can be fail to beat the wii where the top ten counts.
Overall, most likely in terms of software sales, it is probably x360>>>>>wii>>Ps3.... I think... who knows, you're right.... we'll just have to wait...

 

[Rainier]

wait, this month only goes to the 27th? so that's only 3 days of sales for gt5?

How many do you think it will sell for the whole month of December? Why, that's the biggest sales month of the year! One million copies at least, right?

 

[beat]

How much do you think Forza 3 cost? Man Hours (assume an 8 hour day)
GT5: 1,899,040 hours
Forza 3: 2,139,880 hours

:lol :lol :lol

8 hour days for an AAA title are probably unrealistic, but OTOH I would imagine both the Polyphony Digital and Turn 10 pay flat salary, no overtime pay.

 

[FrankT]

Purely by the black op sales, then ac:B, the x360 would lead by so much that the difference is apparent already. And unless just dance 2 is doing near ps3 black op numbers, I don't see how the ps3 can be fail to beat the wii where the top ten counts.
Overall, most likely in terms of software sales, it is probably x360>>>>>wii>>Ps3.... I think... who knows, you're right.... we'll just have to wait...

Hard to measure these things. Holiday months a good bit of SW sales occur below the top 10.

 

[szaromir]

A few things I'll address. Firstly, 8.4 million. Granted these figures count PC sales this time around, as opposed to MW2's 6-something million, but it's still a huge amount. People will look at these figures and say "this is the future of the industry, now everyone is going to make FPS shooters. Why try to be creative when you can just cash off of COD?" but it doesn't work like that. COD isn't just a FPS anymore. It's COD. Similar products, probably even superior ones, will come around and still sell markedly less. Name recognition folks. The only way I see it being overtaken in the foreseeable future is if Activision run the franchise into the ground. And they will.

How so? COD has been a yearly franchise since the very beginning in 2003 and it shows no sign of fatigue. I don't like COD, but Activision has been handling the series amazingly well and they won't mess it up overnight. It might show some decline, but they treat it completely differently from TH and GH.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

How much do you think Forza 3 cost? Let's do some general calculations:

Development days:
GT5: 2187 Days
Forza 3: 887

Team Size:
GT5: 110 employees
Forza 3: 305 employees

Man Hours (assume an 8 hour day)
GT5: 1,899,040 hours
Forza 3: 2,139,880 hours

Labor Cost (assume $30 per hour)
GT5: $56,971,200
Forza 3: $64,196,400

I hope you don't actually work in game production as a producer. :lol

 

[Coin Return]

I can't believe those PS3 and GT5 numbers. Sony am sad.

 

[Ashes]

Hard to measure these things. Holiday months a good bit of SW sales occur below the top 10.

Yeah, there is that....

 

[legend166]

wait, this month only goes to the 27th? so that's only 3 days of sales for gt5?

four days.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

8 hour days for an AAA title are probably unrealistic, but OTOH I would imagine both the Polyphony Digital and Turn 10 pay flat salary, no overtime pay.

PD? Maybe, if they're super-traditional with that sort of thing. All of Turn 10? No chance.