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[Ashes]

No its more the two areas in question. Japan and US are not the ps3's strongest area. Take Singstar for instance, that sells millions somehow. It's strong brand in Europe. Halo and Gears are both american centric as well, though I'm sure Halo manages a million or so in europe, just nothing like in the US.
The chart probably misses a whole lot of milllions from europe, like god of war; take even GT5 for example... etc

It would have been nice to have European numbers...

edit: of the top of my head

prologue shipped 5 million
Uncharted 1 and 2 near 8 million
Resistance 1 at least 2 million
resistance 2 at least 2 million
Lbp at least 2 million
Heavy Rain at least a million
Motorstorm at least 2 million
Motorstorm 2 at least a million
God of war 3 at least 2 million
Kz2 at least a million
Ratchet and Clank (both titles combined) at least 2 million
Socom etc etc etc
edit: problem being that we don't have solid numbers most of these...

 

[Road]

Wait, are you telling me MS 1st party sold more than Sony´s?

In Japan + US, yes, obviously.

Halo 3 alone has sold way more in the US (~6 million) than all of Sony's 1st party efforts in Japan (~4 million).

Now, we're left to compare Sony x Microsoft in the US and it should be easy to see which wins.

 

[A Human Becoming]

It's Sunday and still no PSP numbers? Bleh.

 

[szaromir]

prologue shipped 5 million
Uncharted 1 and 2 near 8 million
Resistance 1 at least 2 million
resistance 2 at least 2 million
Lbp at least 2 million
Heavy Rain at least a million

==Halo before Reach

Motorstorm at least 2 million
Motorstorm 2 at least a million
God of war 3 at least 2 million

<Gears 1+2

 

[Ashes]

These aren't proper shipped numbers though... It might be drastically much higher or lower in either direction... just off the top of my head...

 

[szaromir]

These aren't proper shipped numbers though... It might be drastically much higher or lower in either direction...

In many cases it is indeed higher (MS1, LBP), however I just wanted to show how much MS covered with those two franchises... Then you have their middle sized Forza and Fable and some smaller ones.

Of course both are like babies compared compared to Nintendo.

 

[Ashes]

In many cases it is indeed higher (MS1, LBP), however I just wanted to show how much MS covered with those two franchises... Then you have their middle sized Forza and Fable and some smaller ones.

Of course both are like babies compared compared to Nintendo.

You are right but we come to problems like this:

"The SingStar series has been largely successful in Europe and Australia, and has collectively sold over 16 million units in the PAL region, and an additional 1.5 million units in the United States. Over 4 million songs have been downloaded from the online SingStore. In 2005, SingStar and SingStar Party jointly received the award for originality at the BAFTA Games Awards."

Wiki.

On ps2 and ps3 since 2004. How do you track that?

 

[Megadragon15]

You are right but we come to problems like this:

"The SingStar series has been largely successful in Europe and Australia, and has collectively sold over 16 million units in the PAL region, and an additional 1.5 million units in the United States. Over 4 million songs have been downloaded from the online SingStore. In 2005, SingStar and SingStar Party jointly received the award for originality at the BAFTA Games Awards."

Wiki.

On ps2 and ps3 since 2004. How do you track that?

The PAL charts are in another thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415064

 

[onipex]

47% of 30 billion is just under 15 Billion for that year. That's near enough Nintendo's revenue. $15,755,480,894.44

So where is Nintendo's DS revenue/profits/sales?

Anyways:
x360 around 35% of 30 billion makes it 11.5 Billion.
ps3 around 18% of 30 billion makes it 5.4 Billion. X360 makes more than double the ps3 in generating revenue?

I really doubt this report if I'm honest.

I didn't see any mention of the DS revenue in the report, but I was only looking up console data.

I don't understand what is to doubt about the 360 revenue being so much more than the PS3. The 360 sells a lot more software and has been generating more revenue than the PS3 for just about this entire generation.

There were a couple months where the PS3 generated more revenue , but overall it is far behind.

 

[Ashes]

The PAL charts are in another thread.

Right you are. It's not like conversations carry on down certain paths. One must always adhere to thread topics. Never mind, you probably know we were talking about worldwide stuff anyhow.

edit: oh you meant as a direct reply perhaps...
edit: @above: I'm confused was that report for US only? Then I'm surprised that x360 is so far behind the wii, and of course it makes sense that it generates more revenue than the ps3.

edit:The ds revenue point has been missed perhaps. I made other posts....

 

[GavinGT]

$599 is just a symptom of the real error.

The real error being Bluray.

Bluray offers nothing meaningful to the ps3 as a gaming system but was responsible for it being the most expensive this gen...and ultimately for its failure to generate profit.

The way I see it, Sony traded a lucrative videogame business for a potentially lucrative Blu-ray royalties business. Sure, Blu-ray players are finally selling, but will Sony really make more off Blue-ray royalties than they made last-gen with PS2? Because PS3 will likely be clawing its way toward profitability for years to come, and may end up just barely breaking even by itself.

 

[Boney]

The way I see it, Sony traded a lucrative videogame business for a potentially lucrative Blu-ray royalties business. Sure, Blu-ray players are finally selling, but will Sony really make more off Blue-ray royalties than they made last-gen with PS2? Because PS3 will likely be clawing its way toward profitability for years to come, and may end up just barely breaking even by itself.

Pulling this out of my ass, but.. yes?

 

[Megadragon15]

The way I see it, Sony traded a lucrative videogame business for a potentially lucrative Blu-ray royalties business. Sure, Blu-ray players are finally selling, but will Sony really make more off Blue-ray royalties than they made last-gen with PS2? Because PS3 will likely be clawing its way toward profitability for years to come, and may end up just barely breaking even by itself.

The question becomes: did Sony damage the Playstation brand, in the US, because of this decision?

 

[apana]

The way I see it, Sony traded a lucrative videogame business for a potentially lucrative Blu-ray royalties business. Sure, Blu-ray players are finally selling, but will Sony really make more off Blue-ray royalties than they made last-gen with PS2? Because PS3 will likely be clawing its way toward profitability for years to come, and may end up just barely breaking even by itself.

I don't think they were anticipating the PS3 disaster, no it wasn't worth it most likely.

 

[charlequin]

Sure, Blu-ray players are finally selling, but will Sony really make more off Blue-ray royalties than they made last-gen with PS2?

Specifically, will BluRay royalties make up for turning a +$2b business into a -$4b business? In other words, for this to have been a worthwhile investment, two things need to be true: BluRay profits need to be greater than ~$6 billion and PS3 had to have been the decisive point between BluRay winning and losing.

I think it's extremely likely that over some sufficiently large amount time, Sony's BRD royalties will exceed $6b (though it's hard to say how long that'll take given how little relevant information we have -- what the patent split looks like, how high the total royalties collected are, etc.) but it's harder to say whether PS3 was in fact the decisive factor in the format war.

Because PS3 will likely be clawing its way toward profitability for years to come, and may end up just barely breaking even by itself.

There is pretty much no conceivable path to profitability on the PS3 platform, judged as a whole but only in and of itself. Sony has a much deeper hole to dig out of this generation than Microsoft and fewer profitable revenue streams to do it with, and it's not even certain (I personally don't even think it's likely) that Microsoft will come out ahead on the 360.

 

[Ashes]

Specifically, will BluRay royalties make up for turning a +$2b business into a -$4b business? In other words, for this to have been a worthwhile investment, two things need to be true: BluRay profits need to be greater than ~$6 billion and PS3 had to have been the decisive point between BluRay winning and losing.

I think it's extremely likely that over some sufficiently large amount time, Sony's BRD royalties will exceed $6b (though it's hard to say how long that'll take given how little relevant information we have -- what the patent split looks like, how high the total royalties collected are, etc.) but it's harder to say whether PS3 was in fact the decisive factor in the format war.

It seemed like it at that CES 08 when Warner came through.

 

[Gadfly]

Looking at sales data for the last few months.

If Nintendo and MS were not in the console market then the PS3 and PSP would be leading in sales. By a lot. Wouldn't even really be close.

:lol </thread>

 

[szaromir]

There is pretty much no conceivable path to profitability on the PS3 platform, judged as a whole but only in and of itself. Sony has a much deeper hole to dig out of this generation than Microsoft and fewer profitable revenue streams to do it with, and it's not even certain (I personally don't even think it's likely) that Microsoft will come out ahead on the 360.

They most likely already are profitable or will soon be. The division is $1.5B in the red since the 360 launched, but in the meantime several revisions of Zune player and Kin phone were released and they all failed - must have been huge money sinks, Bach's and Allard's heads didn't roll without a reason.

 

[Baki]

==Halo before Reach


<Gears 1+2

Hahah..You're such a troll.

God of War is probably ~2M in North America. Probably close to ~4M worldwide.

Resistance >3M

Resistance 2 >2M

Not taking away from Gears success, the franchise is wildy successful and the number 2 franchise on 360. BUT, I thought I should give a better indication of GoW and Resistance sales.

 

[Mastperf]

The question becomes: did Sony damage the Playstation brand, in the US, because of this decision?

November NPD says absolutely. Sony's fanbase should be giving them the finger for putting through so much bs this gen. It's been 4 years and they still have to worry if their games will look and/or run worse on their system.

Hahah..You're such a troll.

God of War is probably ~2M in North America. Probably close to ~4M worldwide.

Resistance >3M

Resistance 2 >2M

Not taking away from Gears success, the franchise is wildy successful and the number 2 franchise on 360. BUT, I thought I should give a better indication of GoW and Resistance sales.

Link?

 

[szaromir]

Hahah..You're such a troll.

Yay, fantastic argument. Great discussion.

 

[Baki]

Yay, fantastic argument. Great discussion.

Maybe I'm not following this thread right but suddenly singling out 3 games and then saying Gears 1+2 > than all of them. Seems a bit trollish to me.

 

[user_nat]

Hahah..You're such a troll.

God of War is probably ~2M in North America. Probably close to ~4M worldwide.

Resistance >3M

Resistance 2 >2M

Not taking away from Gears success, the franchise is wildy successful and the number 2 franchise on 360. BUT, I thought I should give a better indication of GoW and Resistance sales.

I like it how you are completely guessing.

 

[RedStep]

Maybe I'm not following this thread right but suddenly singling out 3 games and then saying Gears 1+2 > than all of them. Seems a bit trollish to me.

This is a sales thread, and sales are sales. I know it burns deep in your Sony-sponsored soul, but Gears 1+2 did sell better than those three combined.

And Uncharted sold better than Alan Wake, and so on.

 

[exwallst]

Where is opiate to set us straight? It's tough to see how Microsoft makes profit from 360 launch to 720 launch. It's tough to say whether the 360 platform, all in, will have been profitable or not because its seeds were planted well before it launched and Microsoft will still be cashing checks after 720 is out the door. The Xbox business has been a disaster for Microsoft, financially speaking. Something like $30B invested and still a $5B hole (again, where is opiate?). Xbox is profitable now, has increased its value as a strategic asset, and I like its brand chances better than PlayStation.

 

[fernoca]

Even using Baki's numbers of: 4 million + 3 million + 2 million = 9 million.
And Gears 1+2 sold 12 million, so is still more than the numbers he posted; combined.

I disagree. Maybe if somebody asked for a sales comparison it would make sense but that came out of nowhere.

They've been talking about those number for over a few posts, he didn't singled out and selectively quoted those numbers out of nowhere.

 

[szaromir]

Maybe I'm not following this thread right but suddenly singling out 3 games and then saying Gears 1+2 > than all of them. Seems a bit trollish to me.

Well, we were comparing 1st party sales in general. If you bashed me for making conclusions on insufficient data (ie. without having direct data from these publishers), I'd agree, because it is quite pointless, but only calling me a troll and posting some other pieces of lacking data is just as silly.

 

[Baki]

This is a sales thread, and sales are sales. I know it burns deep in your Sony-sponsored soul, but Gears 1+2 did sell better than those three combined.

And Uncharted sold better than Alan Wake, and so on.

I disagree. Maybe if somebody asked for a sales comparison it would make sense but that came out of nowhere.

 

[Ashes]

I disagree. Maybe if somebody asked for a sales comparison it would make sense but that came out of nowhere.

Read a few posts above.. he was responding to me I think... :lol

 

[Opus Angelorum]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415622

...more than 400,000 Blu-ray players were sold during the week as consumers gravitated toward steeply discounted models featuring Internet connectivity. The median price per unit was $113, down 23% from a median price of $145 last year.

This didn't help PS3 sales for sure.

 

[Bizzyb]

It's Sunday and still no PSP numbers? Bleh.

Sony must have threatened people if they released numbers.

 

[jamesinclair]

It's Sunday and still no PSP numbers? Bleh.

Someone posted them a few pages back, but I guess theyre unconfirmed?

The poster said something like 220,000 PSPs and 80,000 PS2s.

But again, no idea where that came from and if it has any merit

 

[plufim]

For 25million COD sales Nintendo would have to sell at least 35million to get near the same amount of profit. The average selling price of Nintendo games is vastly lower than the average selling price of a COD game. This is doubly so when you sell 15million of your 20+million copies at $60.

You are comparing Revenue rather than Profit. This would only be a fair comparison if both spent the exact same amount on advertising and development costs. It's pretty obvious Activision spends a boatload more than Nintendo on advertising COD games. I'd wager development costs are much higher too.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Someone posted them a few pages back, but I guess theyre unconfirmed?

The poster said something like 220,000 PSPs and 80,000 PS2s.

But again, no idea where that came from and if it has any merit

That's what I've discounted them for the time being.

 

[legend166]

Blu-Ray royalties won't save the PS3 from being marked as a failure. They aren't as lucrative as you might think.

I mean, it's good in the sense that it's basically free money because all the development work is a sunk cost they probably paid off awhile ago.

http://www.myce.com/news/Blu-ray-pr..._campaign=email_newsletter_activestories_week

The licence fees are:

$9.50 per player
11c RO disc
15c RW disc

According to this, Sony own less than 30% of the IP: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9874317-7.html

Let's say they own 1/3. So for each player, Sony gets ~$3, and for each disc, they get ~4c.

According to this, 177 million Blu-Ray discs have been sold in North America to the end of 2009. So Sony will have taken $7.08 million in royalty revenue for discs in North America to the end of 2009.

Clearly that doesn't give the whole picture (I can't find solid numbers for the players, and that's North America only), and it will definitely grow. But to make up for the billions they lost, it's going to be difficult.

I'll try and find some numbers on DVD royalty revenue for comparison. I don't think Blu-Rays will ever reach the point that DVDs did.

 

[legend166]

You are comparing Revenue rather than Profit. This would only be a fair comparison if both spent the exact same amount on advertising and development costs. It's pretty obvious Activision spends a boatload more than Nintendo on advertising COD games. I'd wager development costs are much higher too.

The total budget (development + advertising) for Modern Warfare 2 was $200 million.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-2s-launch-budget--200-million/

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Someone posted them a few pages back, but I guess theyre unconfirmed?

The poster said something like 220,000 PSPs and 80,000 PS2s.

But again, no idea where that came from and if it has any merit

It was doicare who posted that, and he has previously dropped unsourced numbers into a discussion and refused to say where he got them from. I would take those figures with a big pinch of salt unless he reappears to say where he got the numbers from.

 

[AniHawk]

You are comparing Revenue rather than Profit. This would only be a fair comparison if both spent the exact same amount on advertising and development costs. It's pretty obvious Activision spends a boatload more than Nintendo on advertising COD games. I'd wager development costs are much higher too.

And then there's royalties and such.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

And then there's royalties and such.

Yep.

I'd say Nintendo comes out in a better position.

 

[plufim]

The total budget (development + advertising) for Modern Warfare 2 was $200 million.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-2s-launch-budget--200-million/

I'm sure I've heard that before, but it still floors me. If I were to guess based on the advertising I've seen, plus the obnoxious E3 extravaganza, I'd say CODBLOPS budget easily surpased that.

 

[donny2112]

It was doicare who posted that, and he has previously dropped unsourced numbers into a discussion and refused to say where he got them from. I would take those figures with a big pinch of salt unless he reappears to say where he got the numbers from.

It seems that doicare does have some sources, so the numbers are probably correct. jvm said something about them being possible confirmed later, so hopefully, he'll be able to provide independent confirmation of them in tomorrow's Gamasutra article.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

It seems that doicare does have some sources, so the numbers are probably correct. jvm said something about them being possible confirmed later, so hopefully, he'll be able to provide independent confirmation of them in tomorrow's Gamasutra article.

Ah - missed that. If the numbers do turn out to be accurate, I'll be happy to tip my hat to doicare, but - with few exceptions - there aren't many people on here who I'd trust when it comes to unsourced numbers, so we shall see.

 

[GavinGT]

Specifically, will BluRay royalties make up for turning a +$2b business into a -$4b business? In other words, for this to have been a worthwhile investment, two things need to be true: BluRay profits need to be greater than ~$6 billion and PS3 had to have been the decisive point between BluRay winning and losing.

I think it's extremely likely that over some sufficiently large amount time, Sony's BRD royalties will exceed $6b (though it's hard to say how long that'll take given how little relevant information we have -- what the patent split looks like, how high the total royalties collected are, etc.) but it's harder to say whether PS3 was in fact the decisive factor in the format war.



There is pretty much no conceivable path to profitability on the PS3 platform, judged as a whole but only in and of itself. Sony has a much deeper hole to dig out of this generation than Microsoft and fewer profitable revenue streams to do it with, and it's not even certain (I personally don't even think it's likely) that Microsoft will come out ahead on the 360.

I miss the days when we got updates on profitability of the different businesses....or were those numbers all conjecture?

 

[Ashes]

Yep.

I'd say Nintendo comes out in a better position.

Of course they do. Cod needs to spend that much producing content every year, nintendo doesn't. Those evergreen titles are pretty damn evergreen. :lol
And Nintendo has several CODs, and hasn't fallen foul of the studios that create the enterprises... plus... oh we could go on for a bit....

 

[DR2K]

$599 is just a symptom of the real error.

The real error being Bluray.

Bluray offers nothing meaningful to the ps3 as a gaming system but was responsible for it being the most expensive this gen...and ultimately for its failure to generate profit.

Yeah uncompressed sound and video all on one disc is pretty meaningful.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I miss the days when we got updates on profitability of the different businesses....or were those numbers all conjecture?

seems like all we'd need is access to the documentation they present to their shareholders. the good thing about publicly-traded corporations is that they have to lay that stuff on the table, more or less.

Yeah uncompressed sound and video all on one disc is pretty meaningful.

50% lower sales this generation secondary to that effort is also pretty meaningful. but hey...gaming strength and influence was something they were willing to sacrifice.

 

[jman2050]

Yeah uncompressed sound and video all on one disc is pretty meaningful.

Not really, no

 

[clashfan]

How little has changed on GAF over the years, still arguing about blu-ray...

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Yeah uncompressed sound and video all on one disc is pretty meaningful.

Has it had any effect on extra sales for titles that support it versus games that don't?

 

[clashfan]

Yeah uncompressed sound and video all on one disc is pretty meaningful.

It's meaningful on internet forums but to regular consumers not so much.