Support NeoGAF

[Yoboman]

There was definately a certain vibe of negativity around PS2 in certain corners. Particularly from the hardcore perspective - it under-delivered graphically, in online, in game quality. This really only rolled in around launch and Sony quickly redeemed themselves - it never truly spilled into the mainstream press. I think the fact that negativity for the PS3 has been snowballing since E3 has had a significant effect, and unlike PS2 the negatives are being picked up by the casual mainstream. I don't believe any of us here can speak of how the casual market is reacting to PS3 though, it's a market that none of us can really claim to be members of.

 

[MC Safety]

From the article:

"Best Wrenching Change: The Death of E3. Sure, the parties were great, but the elephantine Electronic Entertainment Expo each spring in Los Angeles had clearly ballooned beyond the point of usefulness. Faced with a revolt by companies tired of spending $8 million every year so thousands of game-store clerks could monopolize the demonstration kiosks, the Entertainment Software Association wisely ended the show. Starting next year, E3 will be a much smaller, exclusive event for insiders. As one senior game industry executive aptly put it: 'Look, to run this business effectively there are really only 150 people that I need to deal with worldwide. The other 80,000 people coming to E3 made it almost impossible to actually get any business done.'"


I agree with this. Wholeheartedly.

 

[drohne]

is it just one guy at the nytimes who produces exactly this characterization of the game industry every couple weeks, or have they got a rotating cast?

 

[jko]

interesting, i'm glad Nintendo went the direction that they did. i'm happy with Zelda, non-gamers are happy with Wii-sports, everyone wins. (except graphic whores).

 

[Krowley]

There's a problem with your posts - and most of those patting you on the back and fellating themselves for the new pinnacle of gaming everywhere - and that's this implication that people who aren't fans of Wii Sports are simply afraid of change, that they're the same types of people that will be left behind like those who didn't enjoy SMB or Tetris. The problem with your argument, and again the argument of all who try to parade this perspective, is that in the cases of SMB and Tetris there was no regression. It was, by any standard, and evolution of everything in games AT THE TIME. Regardless of what the argument was from the geeks at the time, You can't claim it was a simplication, SMB was amazingly deep compared to other titles at the time. Tetris could conceivably go on forever, if you're fast enough and talented enough to keep playing. It's a game of hardline skill. It's simple, but only before you consider the complexity came in the actual fitting of the blocks together at progressively higher speeds. It's a hardcores game, just as it is a casuals.

Wii Sports, even if you consider some parts are new standard, is a regression in so, so many areas. Being accessible is all good and well - but when you do that at the expense of many critical elements of gameplay, you regress. Wii Sports is a regression in visuals, it's a regression in depth, it's a regression in gameplay. The only part that isn't is the fact that you can stand up and pathetically mime real-life sports activities with motion. That this is its sole selling point says enough to its gimmickry, regardless of it catches on or not, but it's obvious. In Tennis, you can't move your character. In baseball, all fielding is done for you.

In bowling, there are dozens of different ways to just plain out abuse the system and break it due to limitations of the Wiimote motion. My sister, who doesn't follow game news at all, almost always gets strikes and that's by launching the ball all wrong (she releases it when here swing is all at the top which sort of plops the ball on the lane like a loose turd). She beats those who bowl correctly (like my Dad), even though that defeats the purpose of the motion controls in the first place. It REMOVES elements of gameplay and simplifies it. And how? By holding your hand as if you're a ****ing retard. And perhaps that is how some people enjoy gaming. Boxing is a complete mess, sensing punches half the time and the other half ignoring entirely the position of the wiimote. If you punch too fast, uh-oh the game stops sensing your punches. Punch Out was more fun, AND deeper.

All this before you factor in the lack of modes and other features.

But it is not the same as SMB. It is NOT the same as Tetris. These were, by any standards, staples that enhanced gaming in every way and regressed in none. Wii Sports is precisely the opposite. It's gaming that regresses gameplay in almost all ways. It is nice that in real life you can point your bat in a specific way and hit it to the stands. That's nice, if you needed that I could reccomend any number of plug n play games that do the exact same thing. But the fact that in order to do this, it needs to essentially rape all the important elements of the game which are ****ing essential to the actual sports is no compliment.

It's nice that Grandma can play, but she still don't know shit about games. And this one sucks. And just the fact that she CAN play now is not some positive for the game.

WOW

quite a rant against wii sports. I've played it a little and I think the simple fun it creates in a group setting is pretty magical. It's just instantly fun... maybe it's just the novelty...

But some people here at GAF seem to love it and seem to have found some hidden depth. There are high score posts and people bragging about reaching certain milestones. I'm honestly not that surprised to see it ranking so high in the GOTY voting. This game is really polarizing when it comes to opinions.

Anyway, nice rant.

 

[Amir0x]

WOW

quite a rant against wii sports. I've played it a little and I think the simple fun it creates in a group setting is pretty magical. It's just instantly fun... maybe it's just the novelty...

But some people here at GAF seem to love it and seem to have found some hidden depth. There are high score posts and people bragging about reaching certain milestones. I'm honestly not that surprised to see it ranking so high in the GOTY voting. This game is really polarizing when it comes to opinions.

Anyway, nice rant.

I can make anything seem deep by creating magical games. Someone created a game out of the Wii Forecast channel, for example. And Yoshi Touch n' Go has high scores, and I can make a thread about the high scores and it wouldn't really make that game deep.

I'm not saying something has to be deep to be fun or good either, just before that argument gets passed, but I am saying that a sports games that removes so, so many essential elements of the respective sports it tackles is not a good game (or has so many ways to break or cheat at each and every sports game, even if you're like my sister who doesn't set out to do that). It's a cheap little thrill, and that it is fun for some is fine, but those who hate it don't do so because they fear change. They do so because it ****ing sucks compared to other sports games.

Edit: oh yeah, and before that 'other' argument gets said - no, this is not an indictment of the wiimote technology or all attempts at sports games on Wii. Wii Sports did things its own way, and in my view it was a shitty way. But that says nothing about how other sports games will be... and it's possible they will be awesome.

 

[Guns N' Poops]

Best Job of Bringing Gaming Back to the Masses: Nintendo Wii.

Game of the Year: Wii Sports.

 

[Haunted]

um, i dont know about you but i'm enjoying playing motorstorm, gthd demo, just finished resistance, one of the best looking games ever. i downloaded crash bandicoot on my psp and reliving the glorious past, i'm watching some amazing bluray movies on my ps3 and typing this straight from my ps3 on my glorious 40 inch 1080p bravia. plus some amazing games coming by the end of next year.
so no, i dont agree with your assesment of sony underdelivering, in fact its the opposite. i couldnt be happier with my ps3 and i really dont need any other console thank you very much.

That's cool for you, glad you're having fun. But from an outsider's perspective (which the NYT has concerning the gaming industry), the PR statements made by KK like 'next-gen begins when we say so' - 'you will want to get a 2nd job to pay this' etc. are not backed up by what Sony delivered.

Of course, you could say: who the **** is stupid enough to buy that PR bullshit anyway? You, me and most of GAF isn't, that's for sure. But for those people outside of the gaming industry, the casuals, the observers, the not-really-interested-until-Madden-comes-along: for those people, Sony underdelivered in comparison to the bigwig/confident/arrogant promises and in comparison to the 360 - and that's what the NYT is saying.

Spoiler

My last post for now - happy holidays everyone

 

[Krowley]

I can make anything seem deep by creating magical games. Someone created a game out of the Wii Forecast channel, for example. And Yoshi Touch n' Go has high scores, and I can make a thread about the high scores and it wouldn't really make that game deep.

I'm not saying something has to be deep to be fun or good either, just before that argument gets passed, but I am saying that a sports games that removes so, so many essential elements of the respective sports it tackles is not a good game (or has so many ways to break or cheat at each and every sports game, even if you're like my sister who doesn't set out to do that). It's a cheap little thrill, and that it is fun for some is fine, but those who hate it don't do so because they fear change. They do so because it ****ing sucks compared to other sports games.

Edit: oh yeah, and before that 'other' argument gets said - no, this is not an indictment of the wiimote technology or all attempts at sports games on Wii. Wii Sports did things its own way, and in my view it was a shitty way. But that says nothing about how other sports games will be... and it's possible they will be awesome.

Hey i'm not gonna argue with you dude... i don't own the game myself.. just played it at a friends house a few times. I'm just intrigued by the polarization and total difference of opinion that i'm seeing.

I can't wait to have the game in my own house for a while so i can mess with it and see how it holds up when you're not slightly intoxicated at a party. whether it's good or bad, it seems to be creating a phenomenon.

 

[madara]

At the end of day its just talk, talk hear yourself speak. No one and really no one has clue how this will play out yet. Do I get abit of personally satisfaction that sony is not getting away with the high priced all in wonder PS3? Darn right, we could use shake up. Anyhow it only benefits us but this is still 5mins in first quarter folks.

 

[mentalfloss]

Welcome to the truth folks. The playstation days are over, unless Sony can do the same. WiiSports is actually a fantastic game that deserves GOTY just as much as Gears of War.

 

[Amir0x]

Hey i'm not gonna argue with you dude... i don't own the game myself.. just played it at a friends house a few times. I'm just intrigued by the polarization and total difference of opinion that i'm seeing.

I can't wait to have the game in my own house for a while so i can mess with it and see how it holds up when you're not slightly intoxicated at a party. whether it's good or bad, it seems to be creating a phenomenon.

oh i was just covering my bases in case other people want to debate, not you specifically. I know there's a lot of arguments around here, and all of them needed to be padded so you don't hurt collective feelings of a userbase these days.

Anyway, that's my piece. Its cool if you find it fun, but the implication that if you dislike Wii Sports you fear change like those who opposed Tetris/SMB back in the day is silly, if not absurd.

 

[Guns N' Poops]

Welcome to the truth folks. The playstation days are over, unless Sony can do the same. WiiSports is actually a fantastic game that deserves GOTY just as much as Gears of War.

Yeah, a shallow tech demo can be rated as an equal effort to Gears of War. It has not more deepness than Eye Toy, which was all over in the media and the mainstream in Europe and sold 4 million units with the first game alone (and few millions more later on, as the games constantly appear in the european charts). And still it wouldn't deserve GOTY in anybody's head.
Wii bringing the masses to gaming? Oh really? Not the Playstation, that alone outsold the previous generation and the Playstation 2, that sold even more than it in 5 years, what the Playstation did in 8? Hell no, the Wii that is out less than a month did it!

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I can't help but notice that Amir0x and his entire family were playing Wii Sports.

Didn't you swear up and down a while back that you would immediately throw that game in the trash?

Irony is awesome.

 

[Pureauthor]

I think the little kids coerced him into it.

Or something.

 

[Amir0x]

I can't help but notice that Amir0x and his entire family were playing Wii Sports.

Didn't you swear up and down a while back that you would immediately throw that game in the trash?

Irony is awesome.

The first day I got the Wii, I invited my entire family over to try it out - cousins, mom, dad, sisters. They wanted to try it out. So The only multiplayer game I have is Wii Sports, plus I promised someone at GAF I'd give the game a shot before I wrote it off. I even posted pics here!

 

[Pureauthor]

But did you burn it? I seem to recall some monetary bets about you burning it.

 

[Amir0x]

But did you burn it? I seem to recall some monetary bets about you burning it.

moku said he'd give me 10 bucks. No I didn't burn it... my family doesn't want me to. They still actually want to play it, for some reason. I guess it's sort of like how I keep renting the awful Mario Party games for them whenever they visit, just cause they love them so.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

moku said he'd give me 10 bucks. No I didn't burn it... my family doesn't want me to. They still actually want to play it, for some reason. I guess it's sort of like how I keep renting the awful Mario Party games for them whenever they visit, just cause they love them so.

Please tell me you're not missing the irony in this post.

THINK OF THE IRONY.

 

[Amir0x]

no i'm not seeing the irony so explain it to me.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

no i'm not seeing the irony so explain it to me.

In your rant you downplayed the accessibility of the game as a non importance ("gimmickry" I believe was the exact word), meanwhile the accessibility is what your family seems to derive the fun from the game from.

 

[Amir0x]

In your rant you downplayed the accessibility of the game as a non importance ("gimmickry" I believe was the exact word), meanwhile the accessibility is what your family seems to derive the fun from the game from.

uh no that's not what i argued. I said being accessible is NICE, but it just doesn't mean shit if the gameplay sucks. Which, in Wii Sports case it does. That's not downplaying accessibility, that's accepting that it's not even close to the most important thing.

I never argued anything about what my family would enjoy, they like all manner of shit and I surely wouldn't try to pass their enjoyment off as something relevant to my opinion. My family likes all sorts of games that have shitty gameplay. They like Mario Party series, it's their favorite series! But it's a shitty series. About the only thing they like that is actually good is Pikmin 2.

 

[plagiarize]

okay, a question to the sony fans annoyed that nyt called it the most over hyped thing this year... what would you call more over hyped? no one has offered up anything else. the ps3 was overhyped, that isn't debatable, but you could argue that other stuff was as overhyped or more overhyped this year.

as for all this trashing wii sports... Amir0x, i don't see wii sports as regression. i see it as a step forwards. a game you control by making the motions you make in the real sports. yes, it's been simplified in some ways, but simplified doesn't equal regression.

it is also, meant to appeal to non games. it's not like it's been simplified for no good reason. whether or not theres enough depth there for you, has no bearing on whether or not Wii Sports works as a gateway game.

remember, that's what nintendo want to happen ultimately. they want games like wii sports to get people gaming and they hope they might start playing games like twilight princess. it's about taking away that barrier of complexity for someone who doesn't play games so that they can see how fun they can be, and slowly progress to more complex things.

will that happen? i have no idea... but i do know that *your* opinion of a game that isn't aimed at you, has no bearing on whether or not it's succesful at achieving its goals.

you can't tell me that Dark10x isn't afraid of change (though i understand his perspective).

 

[Y2Kev]

You guyyyyyys....

PS3 was overhyped, as was Wii, 360 before that, PS2 before that, etc. I think the only system that didn't have people bitching was the N64 due to the shock value of Mario 64. In any case, after you play the system's best game and marvel at how pretty it is or how good it plays, I think the feeling of newness wears off and a feeling of disappointment sets in.

There's really no such thing as an underhyped console. We're all waaaay too big of losers to allow something to go underhyped. The backlash against PS3 is simply because of the price, and the backlash against the Wii is muted 'cuz Grandma can finally play. Or something.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

uh no that's not what i argued. I said being accessible is NICE, but it just doesn't mean shit if the gameplay sucks. Which, in Wii Sports case it does. That's not downplaying accessibility, that's accepting that it's not even close to the most important thing.

I never argued anything about what my family would enjoy, they like all manner of shit and I surely wouldn't try to pass their enjoyment off as something relevant to my opinion. My family likes all sorts of games that have shitty gameplay. They like Mario Party series, it's their favorite series! But it's a shitty series. About the only thing they like that is actually good is Pikmin 2.

Define Shitty? Mario Party does what it sets out to do, and it does it well. You're classing it based on opinion.

Getting back on track though, that's the whole point of Lapsed' post. Wii Sports is a testament to depth in simplicity, which is why it is so popular. Dislike it all you wish, but you can't refute that.

 

[Amir0x]

as for all this trashing wii sports... Amir0x, i don't see wii sports as regression. i see it as a step forwards. a game you control by making the motions you make in the real sports. yes, it's been simplified in some ways, but simplified doesn't equal regression.

it is also, meant to appeal to non games. it's not like it's been simplified for no good reason. whether or not theres enough depth there for you, has no bearing on whether or not Wii Sports works as a gateway game.

remember, that's what nintendo want to happen ultimately. they want games like wii sports to get people gaming and they hope they might start playing games like twilight princess. it's about taking away that barrier of complexity for someone who doesn't play games so that they can see how fun they can be, and slowly progress to more complex things.

will that happen? i have no idea... but i do know that *your* opinion of a game that isn't aimed at you, has no bearing on whether or not it's succesful at achieving its goals.

Yes, in this case simplified does mean regression. They're offering facsimile's of sports where motion is the selling point, but in order to be accessible they've tore out elements of the games that are hugely vital to the sports. Other sports games have incredible gameplay, and don't remove or cheapen themselves so that Grandma can play.

So you're right, if the goal is that some people finally got their grandma's to play it's a success. But that doesn't mean it's a good game, because it isn't in my view. It sacrifices far too much in the name of accessibility, and strikes the worst balance I've ever seen between that and gameplay. And because there are a billion other viable sports games that are superior in virtually every conceivable way, I don't really care if my Dad finally played games ya know? Because it still sucked.

Lots of things achieve their goals, that does mean it's good. Britney Spears early albums achieved its goal of luring in vast quantities of tweens. It still sucked. As a gamer, I really don't care what goals things are meeting... I only care if it's any good.

Define Shitty? Mario Party does what it sets out to do, and it does it well. You're classing it based on opinion.

EVERYTHING is based on opinion. That's the only fact in this discussion. One can't classify being shitty except what they enjoy from their own perspective. For me, shitty is a billion lame mini-games and a board game with a billion lame rules that often forces you to sit through dumb animations and dialogue when you'd rather just get on with the process. No Bowser, I don't care that you're gonna shoot me to the island out of a cannon.

Getting back on track though, that's the whole point of Lapsed' post. Wii Sports is a testament to depth in simplicity, which is why it is so popular. Dislike it all you wish, but you can't refute that.

No, the only point I refuted was that people who dislike Wii Sports are afraid of change, like those who disliked SMB and Tetris back in the day. I said there is a difference, and the difference is that Wii Sports is a huge massive regression in so many ways, unlike SMB and Tetris. If you find the benefits of Wii Sports OUTWEIGH that regression that's fine, but it is not change I fear. It's lame, shallow and gimmicky gameplay, which Wii Sports delivered in spades.

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

um, i dont know about you but i'm enjoying playing motorstorm, gthd demo, just finished resistance, one of the best looking games ever. i downloaded crash bandicoot on my psp and reliving the glorious past, i'm watching some amazing bluray movies on my ps3 and typing this straight from my ps3 on my glorious 40 inch 1080p bravia. plus some amazing games coming by the end of next year.
so no, i dont agree with your assesment of sony underdelivering, in fact its the opposite. i couldnt be happier with my ps3 and i really dont need any other console thank you very much.

Hi Kaz!

 

[Branduil]

I love Wii Sports and think it's one of the best games of the year.

I just wanted to throw that out there.

 

[mentalfloss]

Yeah, a shallow tech demo can be rated as an equal effort to Gears of War. It has not more deepness than Eye Toy, which was all over in the media and the mainstream in Europe and sold 4 million units with the first game alone (and few millions more later on, as the games constantly appear in the european charts). And still it wouldn't deserve GOTY in anybody's head.
Wii bringing the masses to gaming? Oh really? Not the Playstation, that alone outsold the previous generation and the Playstation 2, that sold even more than it in 5 years, what the Playstation did in 8? Hell no, the Wii that is out less than a month did it!

The reality of the situation is still that hardcore gamers are a minority of this industry. The people who are typing in this forum right now are not even the PS2's major consumer. The major consumer of a PS2 is someone who buys 3 - 4 games for the system (at most). Regardless, the overwhelming majority of these individuals (those 100 million PS2 owners) are most likely going to buy a Wii this generation. They are not like you. They will not be buying PS3s -- at least not any time soon. Face this reality.

These people are currently enjoying WiiSports. Even hardcore gamers are enjoying WiiSports. Even if this game is a 'tech demo' as you call it, this 'tech demo' still has legs beyond Gears of War. When you've finally exhausted co-op and online play with Gears of War, you will pop in WiiSports for a game of tennis. Even if it's not to beat your parents, you will still play this game for an hour or so every now and then. I can definitely see myself late next year, still playing this game. It's fun factor is not exclusive to the non-gamer -- it is penetrating the hardcore market again (yes, penetrating AND hardcore in the same sentence).

The article is spot on with its sentiments. If the latest vgcharts figures are to be believed -- yes, I am aware that the data is not necessarily accurate -- then Wii is already outselling PS3 almost 3:1 worldwide. Even if you don't check out the figures, you can logically deduce this anyway. Do you expect that to change any time soon?

It won't. PS3 is going to be a very slow platform for the next year because Sony still wants to make money off of the PS2. Sad fact, but it's the truth. In the meantime, Nintendo and Microsoft have forsaken their previous consoles and are going at full speed with their current ones. Nintendo is the new shit, and will continue to be the new shit for the rest of the generation. It has to, not only for the Nintendo's own benefit, but also for the benefit of the industry -- if this is an industry that wants to grow.

It will not grow because of online play or Blu-Ray. These are functions of a console have been borrowed from other industries -- and come at a high cost that detracts from mass market appeal. That's why Wii has to succeed. If it doesn't, the industry grows much too slowly (as PS3 will show). And if it were to fail, then gaming would be very stagnant and would only grow in segmented areas that the PS2 began to flourish: the techies, the high-end consumer, the movie-watcher, the internet surfer, the music aficionado.

 

[dark10x]

I agree with Ami on Wii Sports...but that doesn't change the fact that it IS pretty fun with a group of people. I do like it, but I also recognize it for what it is (essentially a tech demo).

I'm hoping that Nintendo realizes this as well and does not rely on such a simplistic formula in the future. I continue to fear that its success will destroy gaming as we know it (for minority, hardcore gamers).

Our only hope lies in the fact that some of THE best selling games of the previous generation were NOT simplistic affairs. Non-hardcore gamers are still able to appreciate games that require more than a single action from them.

 

[plagiarize]

Yes, in this case simplified does mean regression. They're offering facsimile's of sports where motion is the selling point, but in order to be accessible they've tore out elements of the games that are hugely vital to the sports. Other sports games have incredible gameplay, and don't remove or cheapen themselves so that Grandma can play.

So you're right, if the goal is that some people finally got their grandma's to play it's a success. But that doesn't mean it's a good game, because it isn't in my view. It sacrifices far too much in the name of accessibility, and strikes the worst balance I've ever seen between that and gameplay. And because there are a billion other viable sports games that are superior in virtually ever conceivable way, I don't really care if my Dad finally played games ya know? Because it still sucked.

Lots of things achieve their goals, that does mean it's good. Britney Spears early albums achieved its goal of luring in vast quantities of tweens. It still sucked. As a gamer, I really don't care what goals things are meeting... I only care if it's any good.

EVERYTHING is based on opinion. That's the only fact in this discussion. One can't classify being shitty except what they enjoy from their own perspective. For me, shitty is a billion lame mini-games and a board game with a billion lame rules that often forces you to sit through dumb animations and dialogue when you'd rather just get on with the process. No Bowser, I don't care that you're gonna shoot me to the island out of a cannon.

No, the only point I refuted was that people who dislike Wii Sports are afraid of change, like those who disliked SMB and Tetris back in the day. I said there is a difference, and the difference is that Wii Sports is a huge massive regression in so many ways, unlike SMB and Tetris. If you find the benefits of Wii Sports OUTWEIGH that regression that's fine, but it is not change I fear. It's shitty gameplay, which Wii Sports delivered in spades.

Gaming is supposed to be about fun, and Wii Sports delivered more fun more quickly than anything else I played in 2006. (Helping kill the evil god C’Thun in World of Warcraft was pretty cool too, but that took dozens of hours of practice.) Within minutes of picking up the Wii controller, you and your most game-phobic friends and relatives are laughing and smiling while playing tennis, sinking birdies and trying to bowl that elusive 300 game. Good times.

as i keep saying, your opinion of what makes a good game isn't relevant on games that aren't aimed at you. wii sports isn't being praised because of the things you don't like about it, but because those things didn't bother the people who liked it, or their opinion on them differs.

it's being praised for being accessible and pick up and play fun.

there *are* people afraid of change and i gave a specific example of someone who outright says he's afraid of games changing from what he enjoys into something else because of stuff like wii sports. you can't speak for those kind of people anymore than i can speak for you.

whether wii sports is regression is a matter of opinion too. you could call it regression, i could call it streamlining.

in terms of graphics, features, options, variety, etc, how can you not call Tetris a regression by the same terms you've used.

how many fighting games can be beaten or won by picking a cheap character and button mashing? yes a small percentage of great players can over come that, but the average player can't. does that make street fighter 2 a bad or broken game any less than wii bowling?

 

[Guns N' Poops]

The reality of the situation is still that hardcore gamers are a minority of this industry. The people who are typing in this forum right now are not even the PS2's major consumer. The major consumer of a PS2 is someone who buys 3 - 4 games for the system (at most). Regardless, the overwhelming majority of these individuals (those 100 million PS2 owners) are most likely going to buy a Wii this generation. They are not like you. They will not be buying PS3s -- at least not any time soon. Face this reality.

These people are currently enjoying WiiSports. Even hardcore gamers are enjoying WiiSports. Even if this game is a 'tech demo' as you call it, this 'tech demo' still has legs beyond Gears of War. When you've finally exhausted co-op and online play with Gears of War, you will pop in WiiSports for a game of tennis. Even if it's not to beat your parents, you will still play this game for an hour or so every now and then. I can definitely see myself late next year, still playing this game. It's fun factor is not exclusive to the non-gamer -- it is penetrating the hardcore market again (yes, penetrating AND hardcore in the same sentence).

The article is spot on with its sentiments. If the latest vgcharts figures are to be believed -- yes, I am aware that the data is not necessarily accurate -- then Wii is already outselling PS3 almost 3:1 worldwide. Even if you don't check out the figures, you can logically deduce this anyway. Do you expect that to change any time soon?

It won't. PS3 is going to be a very slow platform for the next year because Sony still wants to make money off of the PS2. Sad fact, but it's the truth. In the meantime, Nintendo and Microsoft have forsaken their previous consoles and are going at full speed with their current ones. Nintendo is the new shit, and will continue to be the new shit for the rest of the generation. It has to, not only for the Nintendo's own benefit, but also for the benefit of the industry -- if this is an industry that wants to grow.

It will not grow because of online play or Blu-Ray. These are functions of a console have been borrowed from other industries -- and come at a high cost that detracts from mass market appeal. That's why Wii has to succeed. If it doesn't, the industry grows much too slowly (as PS3 will show). And if it were to fail, then gaming would be very stagnant and would only grow in segmented areas that the PS2 began to flourish: the techies, the high-end consumer, the movie-watcher, the internet surfer, the music aficionado.

Wow, that reads like an interview with some PR. For the sake of the industry! Just like the DS, that gives the opportunity for lazy developers to make millions over millions with particularly flash-coded software with a development time of several months? Hooray for us. But even that isn't true, cause that only works for Nintendo, third parties have to bring on big traditional games and license titles to sell very well. That is REALLY bringing the industry forward.

 

[Amir0x]

as i keep saying, your opinion of what makes a good game isn't relevant on games that aren't aimed at you. wii sports isn't being praised because of the things you don't like about it, but because those things didn't bother the people who liked it, or their opinion on them differs.

it's being praised for being accessible and pick up and play fun.

there *are* people afraid of change and i gave a specific example of someone who outright says he's afraid of games changing from what he enjoys into something else because of stuff like wii sports. you can't speak for those kind of people anymore than i can speak for you.

That's a regression! There are games that are accessible, but ALSO have good gameplay. One that delivers half of that, when there are plenty of games that do both, is a regression. That's the whole point!

But, there are other arguments as well but they would only apply if you're more hardcore and don't care if there's a 15 minute learning curve.

whether wii sports is regression is a matter of opinion too. you could call it regression, i could call it streamlining.

How is this streamlining? You remove movement from tennis and fielding from baseball, and it's streamlining? Maybe it is, streamlined by people who hate sports!

 

[Branduil]

I would like to know what games are as accessible as WiiSports.

 

[Amir0x]

The claim was that there are plenty of other games that are accessible, not that those accessible games are equally as accessible as WiiSports. Whether that is true or not.

 

[Branduil]

The claim was that there are plenty of other games that are accessible, not that those accessible games are equally as accessible as WiiSports. Whether that is true or not.

So they aren't as accessible.

 

[mentalfloss]

Wow, that reads like an interview with some PR. For the sake of the industry! Just like the DS, that gives the opportunity for lazy developers to make millions over millions with particularly flash-coded software with a development time of several months? Hooray for us.

Yea, and all of the PS2's games are brilliant gems. Of course you're going to have some terrible games in there. That's what happens when you get a lot of support.

But even that isn't true, cause that only works for Nintendo, third parties have to bring on big traditional games and license titles to sell very well. That is REALLY bringing the industry forward.

Just because Nintendo is succeeding does not mean that third parties don't have to. If they can make the games that take advantage of the hardware, and appeal to the masses then they will make lots of money as well. It is not Nintendo's fault because third parties are not successful. The userbase is there -- they just need the game that works.

Anyway, I'm not sure what you're trying to argue, but the article is right about the current situation. If you want traditional games that's why you're a "hardcore gamer" and you have a PS3 right? Go enjoy the GT: HD instead of wasting your time on the boards.

 

[Amir0x]

So they aren't as accessible.

That's one viewpoint. But, regardless of if that's true or not, the argument is not about whether Wii Sports is accessible.

 

[Guns N' Poops]

Yea, and all of the PS2's games are brilliant gems. Of course you're going to have some terrible games in there. That's what happens when you get a lot of support.





Just because Nintendo is succeeding does not mean that third parties don't have to. If they can make the games that take advantage of the hardware, and appeal to the masses then they will make lots of money as well. It is not Nintendo's fault because third parties are not successful. The userbase is there -- they just need the game that works.

Anyway, I'm not sure what you're trying to argue, but the article is right about the current situation. If you want traditional games that's why you're a "hardcore gamer" and you have a PS3 right? Go enjoy the GT: HD instead of wasting your time on the boards.

Shouldn't you be the one enjoying the 1000st match of endless Wii Tennis wristflicking fun with your family, pets and the invited bums from the neighbourhood? I'm playing MGSPO right now, don't need anything more.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Replace "Playstation 3" with "Playstation 2" and "Xbox" with "Dreamcast" and you basically have late-2000 all over again.

Oh no you didn't.

 

[antoniogaud]

but I am saying that a sports games that removes so, so many essential elements of the respective sports it tackles is not a good game (or has so many ways to break or cheat at each and every sports game, even if you're like my sister who doesn't set out to do that). It's a cheap little thrill, and that it is fun for some is fine, but those who hate it don't do so because they fear change. They do so because it ****ing sucks compared to other sports games.

Wii Sports isn't supposed to be an accurate representation of the included sports, its just supposed to be fun and show off the controller. You are taking your analysis far too deep for what is essentially a fun as heck tech demo.

Your review would be more appropiate for the GT-HD demo that just came out as that intends to be a more detailed simulation than Wii Sports.

 

[mentalfloss]

Shouldn't you be the one enjoying the 1000st match of endless Wii Tennis wristflicking fun with your family, pets and the invited bums from the neighbourhood?

No, because I'm using the WiiBrowser.

 

[Pureauthor]

In one sense of the word, Wii Sports follows a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' mentality.

The Wiimote allows for greater accessibility, but I'd say the lack of running is kind of a safeguard (unintentional or otherwise) - if you break down too many barriers between player and game, there's going to come a point when the person playing simply asks himself 'Why aren't I playing real sports instead?'

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

What happened to your tag?

I don't know. One day (a week or two ago) it was just gone.

Perhaps I lost my sanity in the PS3 launch!

 

[papercut]

In one sense of the word, Wii Sports follows a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' mentality.

The Wiimote allows for greater accessibility, but I'd say the lack of running is kind of a safeguard (unintentional or otherwise) - if you break down too many barriers between player and game, there's going to come a point when the person playing simply asks himself 'Why aren't I playing real sports instead?'

I'm pretty sure that Nintendo left out movement due to the complexity of the analog stick. You'd be surprised at how long it takes an adult who never played videogames to get used to the thing. Plus, with auto-movement, you don't have to worry about being in the right position to hit the ball.

 

[Pureauthor]

I don't know. One day (a week or two ago) it was just gone.

Perhaps I lost my sanity in the PS3 launch!

Don't worry. You're still sane in our eyes.

 

[Flakster99]

Good read.

I'm chuckling here, because I never thought Wii sports would be in such demand with my friends, family during this x-mas season. It is absolutely fantastic the fun to be had, the penetration Wii Sports has given the Wii along my jaded circle of friends, family.

Over the past month, my 2 brother-in-laws have also purchased Wii's, along with Super Swing Golf(everyone's preferred game right now), Trauma Center and Excitetruck, neither of them purchased Zelda. No doubt, Wii Sports made them go ga-ga from the beginning and played with their imaginations.

As much as I've enjoyed Zelda, Wii Sports my game of the year.

 

[Amir0x]

Wii Sports isn't supposed to be an accurate representation of the included sports, its just supposed to be fun and show off the controller. You are taking your analysis far too deep for what is essentially a fun as heck tech demo.

Cop out. Just because it's a tech demo and used to show off the controller does not exclude it from being criticized for being shallow and removing so many essentially elements from the sports. And besides, it's the whole ****in' reason I had to pay $250 for my Wii instead of $200. So it's not free, and it's not gonna get the same benefits as a game that is free (like GTHD tech demo - which I haven't played, so I don't know why that was brought up). Even if it intends to be arcadey, each Mario Sports game offers more individually than all 5 Wii Sports arcade game combined. AND it's accessible.

Anyway, I didn't find it fun, but as was said that's just my opinion. My only point is that this argument that those who dislike Wii Sports fear change has no water.

 

[Vibri]

Wii Sports is absolutely a better game than Gears of War in the broader context. Just because a game appeals to the gore-wank Bruckheimer sensibility that's rampant on NeoGAF doesn't make it new, or original, or important - all things that Wii Sports is.

 

[Vibri]

Amir0x: you do understand that not every product a company makes it targetted to your demo right?

Everyone I know who touches Wii Sports game loves it -- EVERYONE. 90% of those people haven't picked up a game controller, ever, and for the first time want to. This story is being repeating in hundreds of thousands, soon to be millions of households around the world.

If the significance of that escapes you there is a major problem.