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[Ignatz Mouse]

I think judging Gears or Wii Sports right now is too soon. 1 year form now, see how many people care about either one. I can't predict that, and won't try.

 

[Ikael]

There's a problem with your posts - and most of those patting you on the back and fellating themselves for the new pinnacle of gaming everywhere - and that's this implication that people who aren't fans of Wii Sports are simply afraid of change, that they're the same types of people that will be left behind like those who didn't enjoy SMB or Tetris.

That's not the point. You can personally dislike or love wiisports. Thanks God we are humans, not ants, with our individual preferences and tastes. That being said, it is not people that don't like wiisports, is people that doesn't sees any virtue in simplicity and accesability. We are talking about game design, not a particular title.

The problem with your argument, and again the argument of all who try to parade this perspective, is that in the cases of SMB and Tetris there was no regression. It was, by any standard, and evolution of everything in games AT THE TIME.

If I don't recall bad, there were games which were far more complex than super mario when it was released.

Wii Sports, even if you consider some parts are new standard, is a regression in so, so many areas. Being accessible is all good and well - but when you do that at the expense of many critical elements of gameplay, you regress. Wii Sports is a regression in visuals, it's a regression in depth, it's a regression in gameplay.

Thing is, accesibility and simplicity are not polar opposites of depth or gameplay, as you wisely pointed up in your mario bross comment. Since I haven't played wiisports extensively, I don't know if it is true on this particular game, but I believe that they are just different qualities, none of them being "intrinsecally" better than the another ones. Games have advanced a lot on the visual and depth side. Now wiisports offers increased accesability and simplicity. Shouldn't we all be happy to see the gaming offer being widened and varied? Why people view this industry (a creative one) as if it was a sum zero game? Why there's always a horde of gaffers moaning about how brain training being a million selller is gonna destroy the "true games", while noone claims that the 2 million of Gears of wars sold is gonna erase once of all "the non gaming scourge"?

I think that there's a segment of the gamers that have been ignored since gaming stopped being accesible and simple. Now games like Wiisports take this virtues back. As flawed as it might be this particular title, there are persons which are just happy to see their classic "gaming values" taken in account againg when making games.

 

[Pureauthor]

If the significance of that escapes you there is a major problem

*beats head against wall*

No, the significance has not escaped him. He is simply stating that he does not enjoy Wii Sports, and those that do not enjoy Wii Sports do not necessarily do so due to 'fear of change'.

 

[Amir0x]

Amir0x: you do understand that not every product a company makes it targetted to your demo right?

Everyone I know who touches Wii Sports game loves it -- EVERYONE. 90% of those people haven't picked up a game controller, ever, and for the first time want to. This story is being repeating in hundreds of thousands, soon to be millions of households around the world.

If the significance of that escapes you there is a major problem.

That's nice. I don't care about them, nor should I. I was not arguing whether the game was significant, only against Lapsed dumb argument that if you hate it you fear change.

I'm a gamer. I don't care how much Nintendo's PR infects countless billions, I only care if the game is good or not. As this is a forum for hardcore gamers, it should be no surprise I expect that to be the case here as well. Those billions playing games for the first time does shit all to make gaming better so I don't care.

So, again for emphasis, this has nothing to do with whether NYT was correct in their assessment. It was only a discussion about Lapsed position.

*beats head against wall*

No, the significance has not escaped him. He is simply stating that he does not enjoy Wii Sports, and those that do not enjoy Wii Sports do not necessarily do so due to 'fear of change'.

Ah, someone did understand.

If I don't recall bad, there were games which were far more complex than super mario when it was released.

Heh, the 'complexity' wasn't the evolution. It was game design. Mario Bros. and Tetris enhanced game design in basically every way. Complexity is good or bad, depending on the game. Just like simplicity is good or bad depending on the game.

 

[Krowley]

I think the argument for depth in wii sports is the question of representing complex actions...

How much depth can you have within the simple action of swinging a racket, bowling or swinging a bat... I think that simply getting those actions close to reality could result in an incredibly complex and deep game.

I'm not sure that wii sports is close enough, but in theory, i think a game of tennis that just represented swinging a racket could be very deep if it was totally realistic.

 

[Pureauthor]

Ah, someone did understand.

I may not agree with you on a lot of things, but I can't understand an argument where I see one.

 

[X26]

Stop looking at consoles sold but at household penetration of consoles. When you factor out population growth (which everyone seems to forget over these thirty years of consoles), the household penetration of consoles is around 33% in America today... the same amount the NES reached.

Most of the 'growth' in the industry has come from multiple console ownership. When people make stupid marketshare pie charts, they don't factor in that *gasp* people might own more than one console which means the wedges are more on top of each other.

I think your notion that there has been no real console growth is rediculous. You factor in one person owning multiple systems but don't factor in (among otherthings) things like multiple people in the same household being gamers and owning systems, you seem to just be trying to shift things so that it makes Nintendo look like the mesiah. It's obvious that console gaming has grown from the NES days. Its popularity, the kinds of people that play (FAR more varied than it used to be), and so on are all testaments to that even if you look at it through percentages.

Anyways it's an alright article, not much to disagree with there except maybe GoW's entry.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

Wii Sports is absolutely a better game than Gears of War in the broader context. Just because a game appeals to the gore-wank Bruckheimer sensibility that's rampant on NeoGAF doesn't make it new, or original, or important - all things that Wii Sports is.

No it isn't. I don't even like getting involved in arguments like this, but, no. Going by your arguement, Wii Sports doesn't fit the mold since plug n play games have existed for years. I could go to an arcade and play a boxing game like Wii boxing, or pop in a plug n play and play games like baseball and tennis. Wii Sports isn't new or original.

I think its kind of sad that you even have to try and go there to validate Wii Sports.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

I guess the PR session that sort of backfired with cnet was eaten up, plates and all, by NY Times? :lol

 

[plagiarize]

That's a regression! There are games that are accessible, but ALSO have good gameplay. One that delivers half of that, when there are plenty of games that do both, is a regression. That's the whole point!

But, there are other arguments as well but they would only apply if you're more hardcore and don't care if there's a 15 minute learning curve.

How is this streamlining? You remove movement from tennis and fielding from baseball, and it's streamlining? Maybe it is, streamlined by people who hate sports!

let's try one more time.

whether or not a game has good gameplay is a matter of opinion. if making it accessible isn't regression by itself you're saying that it is that the gameplay is bad that makes it regression.

which is entirely a matter of opinion. so whether or not it's regression is as i was trying to explain, a matter of opinion.

i'm not saying it's streamlined, i'm saying that when you make something simpler it is debatable whether that's regression or streamlining.

personally i'm really looking forwards to a tennis game with full movement and i know i'll enjoy it more than wii tennis, but i don't know if my in laws would.

i don't like jrpgs. they are zero fun for me, but i would never try and critique one. i get that they aren't for me.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

In bowling, there are dozens of different ways to just plain out abuse the system and break it due to limitations of the Wiimote motion. My sister, who doesn't follow game news at all, almost always gets strikes and that's by launching the ball all wrong (she releases it when here swing is all at the top which sort of plops the ball on the lane like a loose turd). She beats those who bowl correctly (like my Dad), even though that defeats the purpose of the motion controls in the first place.

Just wanted to say that my roommate does this in Wii Sports too, and I've never had a problem with it, because I have a friend who does that very thing in real life and gets strikes all the time.

I've played hours and hours of bowling with people who enjoy real life bowling, and we haven't encountered a single glitch. You claim there are dozens... I know of some instant-strike thing IGN found months ago, but we've never encountered that in play.

 

[Y2Kev]

i don't like jrpgs. they are zero fun for me, but i would never try and critique one. i get that they aren't for me.

Don't you think you should be able to objectively approach a JRPG and critique it despite not liking the genre?

Drinky Crow made this argument regarding Ultimate GnG months ago. Someone can still approach and critique something that they don't like or don't completely appreciate.

 

[Pureauthor]

I dunno. Personally, I wouldn't feel secure critiquing a genre I've no interest in.

Now, a game I dislike from a genre I generally like is a different matter - I have a deeper understanding of the mechanics and whatnot that contribute to the gameplay.

(I suppose this is a moot point for me, considering I can enjoy just about anything I play.)

 

[Amir0x]

Just wanted to say that my roommate does this in Wii Sports too, and I've never had a problem with it, because I have a friend who does that very thing in real life and gets strikes all the time.

I've played hours and hours of bowling with people who enjoy real life bowling, and we haven't encountered a single glitch. You claim there are dozens... I know of some instant-strike thing IGN found months ago, but we've never encountered that in play.

none of my friends do that in real life because they have basic control of their arms, and neither does my sister do it in real life... but in Wii Bowling, all the time! Strike after Strike. That's not how bowling works, especially vs. people who actually bowl correctly. But ya know whatever excuse fits for you, that's fine. It's still lame. And just one small part of the argument, so if you feel that I was being overly critical that's fine there's plenty of venom for every single game since they all suck.

i don't like jrpgs. they are zero fun for me, but i would never try and critique one. i get that they aren't for me.

I like sports games, both sim and arcade. Wii Sports is a sports game. I'm allowed to criticize it, AND legitimately, regardless of what bullshit the PR wants to spew simply because motion is involved.

 

[Y2Kev]

I dunno. Personally, I wouldn't feel secure critiquing a genre I've no interest in.

Now, a game I dislike from a genre I generally like is a different matter - I have a deeper understanding of the mechanics and whatnot that contribute to the gameplay.

(I suppose this is a moot point for me, considering I can enjoy just about anything I play.)

I don't know if I agree. In high school, we all had to do senior research papers on some type of literary era and movement/trend/idea. My friend got stuck with having to work with materials he really hated. The source materials were, for him, things he would never have worked with in his spare time. Yet, he still had to do a literary critique and analysis the same way he would have done it if he had gotten a subject he loved.

I guess it hinges on whether or not you believe there can be some kind of objective criticism.

 

[drohne]

i wish people wouldn't conflate things like "it amuses my in-laws" or "it helps me kill time on the subway" with quality. those are perhaps legitimate uses for a game, but you can't deduce quality from a game's ability to please the least critical audiences or fit the least critical situations. wii sports is perhaps "important" from an industry perspective or a social perspective -- my friends have been talking about it, and most of them don't give a shit about games -- but you're confusing your categories when you call it a better game than gears.

 

[Pureauthor]

I don't know that I agree. In high school, we all had to do senior research papers on some type of literary era and trend. My friend got stuck with having to work with materials he really hated. The source materials were, for him, things he would never have worked with in his spare time. Yet, he still had to do a literary critique and analysis the same way he would have done it if he had gotten a subject he loved.

I guess it hinges on whether or not you believe there can be some kind of objective criticism.

I suppose if I actually sat down and did my research I could argue, but I was more under the impression of 'forum nerds'-type arguing. Anything can be critiqued if you take the time and effort to research and understand.

And drohne posted. Look's like the gang's all here.

 

[Y2Kev]

I suppose if I actually sat down and did my research I could argue, but I was more under the impression of 'forum nerds'-type arguing. Anything can be critiqued if you take the time and effort to research and understand.

And drohne posted. Look's like the gang's all here.

Oh, well, yeah. If you want to just argue and be stupid about something, sure. Stick to what you like.

But critical analysis is not the same as bitching or nitpicking, which I'm sure you understand.

One episode of RadiOPM had Scooter talking about a new writer or intern they had that was being difficult and refusing to write a review for a sports game (I think that was the genre) because he "had no perspective" on sports games-- he didn't like them or didn't play them, whatever. While I agree that oftentimes a "pro" in a particular category should handle the review for that category, I totally love their response to him: GET PERSPECTIVE.

Heh.

 

[RevenantKioku]

i wish people wouldn't conflate things like "it amuses my in-laws" or "it helps me kill time on the subway" with quality. those are perhaps legitimate uses for a game, but you can't deduce quality from a game's ability to please the least critical audiences or fit the least critical situations. wii sports is perhaps "important" from an industry perspective or a social perspective -- my friends have been talking about it, and most of them don't give a shit about games -- but you're confusing your categories when you call it a better game than gears.

Oh yes, because the bitter ****s of the gaming world are well worth listening too.
And yeah, both Wii Sports and GoW are fun. But I find Wii Sports moreso. Ergo, better game.

I like sports games, both sim and arcade. Wii Sports is a sports game. I'm allowed to criticize it, AND legitimately, regardless of what bullshit the PR wants to spew simply because motion is involved.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Pureauthor]

Oh, well, yeah. If you want to just argue and be stupid about something, sure. Stick to what you like.

Hey, I was saying I wouldn't critique a game I didn't have a fundamental understanding of in the first place. Why are you so mean?

 

[AdmiralViscen]

none of my friends do that in real life because they have basic control of their arms, and neither does my sister do it in real life... but in Wii Bowling, all the time! Strike after Strike. That's not how bowling works, especially vs. people who actually bowl correctly. But ya know whatever excuse fits for you, that's fine. It's still lame. And just one small part of the argument, so if you feel that I was being overly critical that's fine there's plenty of venom for every single game since they all suck.

Yea, whatever, I doubt you could beat my friend at bowling. The fact is that popping the ball up in the air and sending it on a straight line CAN result in strikes IRL, so it is not a flaw in the motion control of Wii.

Obviously it's going to be easier to get a high score in a video game than in real life, that is not a result of the motion control either.

It's absolutely hilarious that you'd accuse me of "making excuses" when I've seen this technique used in real life with my own eyes. Whatever, dude.

 

[Y2Kev]

Hey, I was saying I wouldn't critique a game I didn't have a fundamental understanding of in the first place. Why are you so mean?

CAUSE I EAT BABIES FOR BREAKFAST

Sorry I wasn't attempting to be mean. I just threw out "be stupid" about something because...well, that's what a lot of GAF does. You, of course, can have light hearted discussion on something without being stupid or critical.

 

[Amir0x]

Oh yes, because the bitter ****s of the gaming world are well worth listening too.
And yeah, both Wii Sports and GoW are fun. But I find Wii Sports moreso. Ergo, better game.

:lol :lol :lol

you think Dirge of Cerberus is more fun than Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden. You think Planescape Torment sucks. You're not allowed to comment on anything, ever, in any thread on GAF without this central truth floating there. Begone, hater of good

Yea, whatever, I doubt you could beat my friend at bowling. The fact is that popping the ball up in the air and sending it on a straight line CAN result in strikes IRL, so it is not a flaw in the motion control of Wii.

Obviously it's going to be easier to get a high score in a video game than in real life, that is not a result of the motion control either.

It's absolutely hilarious that you'd accuse me of "making excuses" when I've seen this technique used in real life with my own eyes. Whatever, dude.

It's an excuse. You're trying to say in a roundabout way that people bowling like retards will consistently, every time, getting a better score than someone who actually bowls with the speed and form of an actual bowler (since this is what happens in Wii Sports) is somehow realistic because you've seen one of your friend irl do this. I'm sorry, that's an excuse. That's not how it works, and if it happened once it sure as **** doesn't happen consistently no matter what you claim.

 

[Y2Kev]

you think Dirge of Cerberus is more fun than Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden. You think Planescape Torment sucks. You're not allowed to comment on anything, ever, in any thread on GAF without this central truth floating there. Begone, hater of good

Vanquish the hater of good!

*craps on disc*

 

[Pureauthor]

CAUSE I EAT BABIES FOR BREAKFAST

Sorry I wasn't attempting to be mean. I just threw out "be stupid" about something because...well, that's what a lot of GAF does. You, of course, can have light hearted discussion on something without being stupid or critical.

We can agree Matsuno rocks, right?

 

[Error]

There's a problem with your posts - and most of those patting you on the back and fellating themselves for the new pinnacle of gaming everywhere - and that's this implication that people who aren't fans of Wii Sports are simply afraid of change, that they're the same types of people that will be left behind like those who didn't enjoy SMB or Tetris. The problem with your argument, and again the argument of all who try to parade this perspective, is that in the cases of SMB and Tetris there was no regression. It was, by any standard, and evolution of everything in games AT THE TIME. Regardless of what the argument was from the geeks at the time, You can't claim it was a simplication, SMB was amazingly deep compared to other titles at the time. Tetris could conceivably go on forever, if you're fast enough and talented enough to keep playing. It's a game of hardline skill. It's simple, but only before you consider the complexity came in the actual fitting of the blocks together at progressively higher speeds. It's a hardcores game, just as it is a casuals.

Wii Sports, even if you consider some parts are new standard, is a regression in so, so many areas. Being accessible is all good and well - but when you do that at the expense of many critical elements of gameplay, you regress. Wii Sports is a regression in visuals, it's a regression in depth, it's a regression in gameplay. The only part that isn't is the fact that you can stand up and pathetically mime real-life sports activities with motion. That this is its sole selling point says enough to its gimmickry, regardless of it catches on or not, but it's obvious. In Tennis, you can't move your character. In baseball, all fielding is done for you.

In bowling, there are dozens of different ways to just plain out abuse the system and break it due to limitations of the Wiimote motion. My sister, who doesn't follow game news at all, almost always gets strikes and that's by launching the ball all wrong (she releases it when here swing is all at the top which sort of plops the ball on the lane like a loose turd). She beats those who bowl correctly (like my Dad), even though that defeats the purpose of the motion controls in the first place. It REMOVES elements of gameplay and simplifies it. And how? By holding your hand as if you're a ****ing retard. And perhaps that is how some people enjoy gaming. Boxing is a complete mess, sensing punches half the time and the other half ignoring entirely the position of the wiimote. If you punch too fast, uh-oh the game stops sensing your punches. Punch Out was more fun, AND deeper.

All this before you factor in the lack of modes and other features.

But it is not the same as SMB. It is NOT the same as Tetris. These were, by any standards, staples that enhanced gaming in every way and regressed in none. Wii Sports is precisely the opposite. It's gaming that regresses gameplay in almost all ways. It is nice that in real life you can point your bat in a specific way and hit it to the stands. That's nice, if you needed that I could reccomend any number of plug n play games that do the exact same thing. But the fact that in order to do this, it needs to essentially rape all the important elements of the game which are ****ing essential to the actual sports is no compliment.

It's nice that Grandma can play, but she still don't know shit about games. And this one sucks. And just the fact that she CAN play now is not some positive for the game.

you see, unlike lapsed who provided awesome insight to his post, this reeks of "wah wah I hate wii sports, and I dont like how the game looks graphically" blah blah

a regression in gameplay maybe to you but to some people that NEVER pick a controller is probably the biggest evolution in games yet why? becuase it's a simple game that doesnt require multiple buttons to press. this IS exactly what lapsed describe when he said this...

You sound just like a hardcore computer gamer in 1986 after playing Super Mario Brothers. And, yes, this was said back then. There was lots of hate of the NES back then from some computer gamer geeks. I know because I was one of them.

after playing Ultima 3 (PC game btw) which came even before SMB did, it makes SMB looks like a very simple and mindless game. so I can definitely see where lapsed is coming from.

 

[RevenantKioku]

you think Dirge of Cerberus is more fun than Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden. You think Planescape Torment sucks. You're not allowed to comment on anything, ever, in any thread on GAF without this central truth floating there. Begone, hater of good

Actually, I am.
And I try, my best sometimes and very hard, to respect other's opinion.
You don't.
Which is why you fail as a moderator, a GAFfer and a gamer.

 

[Catchpenny]

It's telling that Amir0x considers manual movement of his tennis avatar to be more important than shot control. Has he actually played tennis, or watched it being played on a professional level? I would love to play Virtua Tennis, Top Spin or any tennis game ever made with the Wii Sports control setup. They would be better games for it, even with sacrificing movement control. Gesture recognition could still be improved, but contrary to his claims, it's far superior to anything you'll find in a plug and play game.

Now, should future, full-price tennis sim games include analog control of your character? Absolutely. But learning how to make the more advanced shots with the Wiimote has a fairly significant learning curve, so adding analog control would've gone against the pick up and play philosophy behind Wii Sports. It's a design decision I can live with, and hopefully future games will take the next step.

Anyway, I didn't find it fun, but as was said that's just my opinion. My only point is that this argument that those who dislike Wii Sports fear change has no water.

Wii Sports is a regression in visuals, it's a regression in depth, it's a regression in gameplay. The only part that isn't is the fact that you can stand up and pathetically mime real-life sports activities with motion. That this is its sole selling point says enough to its gimmickry, regardless of it catches on or not, but it's obvious.

It's gaming that regresses gameplay in almost all ways. It is nice that in real life you can point your bat in a specific way and hit it to the stands. That's nice, if you needed that I could reccomend any number of plug n play games that do the exact same thing. But the fact that in order to do this, it needs to essentially rape all the important elements of the game which are ****ing essential to the actual sports is no compliment.

It's nice that Grandma can play, but she still don't know shit about games. And this one sucks. And just the fact that she CAN play now is not some positive for the game.

I know there's a lot of arguments around here, and all of them needed to be padded so you don't hurt collective feelings of a userbase these days.

I love how you throw this shit around, then try to preemptively chalk it up to a difference in opinion and act like you're the one being attacked. :lol

 

[Y2Kev]

We can agree Matsuno rocks, right?

Well, ****ing duh.

 

[Pureauthor]

Well, ****ing duh.

On that happy note, I believe it is time for my active participation in this thread (or at least on this particular topic), to end.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

It's an excuse. You're trying to say in a roundabout way that people bowling like retards will consistently, every time, getting a better score than someone who actually bowls with the speed and form of an actual bowler (since this is what happens in Wii Sports) is somehow realistic because you've seen one of your friend irl do this. I'm sorry, that's an excuse. That's not how it works, and if it happened once it sure as **** doesn't happen consistently no matter what you claim.

It's not an excuse. I use proper technique and I beat my roommate (who uses that technique) all the time.

Would it hurt you to stop being so vitriolic and self-important in every ****ing post you make?

 

[Amir0x]

you see, unlike lapsed who provided awesome insight to his post, this reeks of "wah wah I hate wii sports, and I dont like how the game looks graphically" blah blah

a regression in gameplay maybe to you but to some people that NEVER pick a controller is probably the biggest evolution in games yet why? becuase it's a simple game that doesnt require multiple buttons to press. this IS exactly what lapsed describe when he said this...

Error2k4, the fact that Wii Sports sucks is honestly beside the point. The only point is that his claim that people who hate Wii Sports fear change is just pure bullshit, plain and simple, and that's as straightforward as it gets. There are a billion legitimate reasons to hate Wii Sports, and I've said them eloquently and directly.

The point is only that I don't fear change, I fear shitty gameplay. That's Wii Sports.

It's telling that Amir0x considers manual movement of his tennis avatar to be more important than shot control. Has he actually played tennis, or watched it being played on a professional level? I would love to play Virtua Tennis, Top Spin or any tennis game ever made with the Wii Sports control setup. They would be better games for it, even with sacrificing movement control. Gesture recognition could still be improved, but contrary to his claims, it's far superior to anything you'll find in a plug and play game.

False. I consider them both extremely important, I never stated that either part was less or more important. But, without any ****ing doubt, they are both essential elements to tennis. Removing one for accessibility is a cop out for dog bone retards who can't even grasp basic motor skills. The fact that you want all tennis games to now be like this is more telling of you than me, but I'm not trying to even go there. My only point was, once more, that removing such essential elements of the sport is not an improvement in gameplay no matter how ****ing accessible you get. It's regression. And thus, as I said, this is just one out of many legitimate reasons to dislike Wii Sports.

And as a pure aside, I'm a gamer. I don't need shit to be accessible, I need it to be good. But that's a separate argument.

It's not an excuse. I use proper technique and I beat my roommate (who uses that technique) all the time.

Are we talking about in Wii Sports, or irl?

Actually, I am.
And I try, my best sometimes and very hard, to respect other's opinion.
You don't.
Which is why you fail as a moderator, a GAFfer and a gamer.

oh god please, it's just a joke. Calm down. You know as well as I do that I can't ever possibly allow you to live down preferring Dirge of Cerberus to Devil May Cry. That's just part of your GAF persona now!

 

[Diablos]

The PS3 does nothing that the Xbox 360 does not accomplish at least as well (and in some cases far better) and for less money.

PS3 has only been out since November, 360 has a year head start; of course the 360's lineup is going to look more impressive and the games just as if not more graphically profound as PS3 games. This is a silly comment, one that he should have waited a year to see if it was worth making. The price argument is a whole other story, because then it boils down to what first-party and exclusive third party (yes, I know, Sony's losing them) games you want.

 

[Pureauthor]

PS3 has only been out since November, 360 has a year head start; of course the 360's lineup is going to look more impressive and the games just as if not more graphically profound as PS3 games. This is a silly comment, one that he should have waited a year to see if it was worth making. The price argument is a whole other story, because then it boils down to what first-party and exclusive third party (yes, I know, Sony's losing them) games you want.

No, see, the X360 was supposed to have a 5 month headstart MAX. Sony screwed it up, and they have completely wasted the extra year they had to prep things. Microsoft didn't exactly do so hot at the start either.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

Are we talking about in Wii Sports, or irl?

Wii Sports. It's my friend (not roommate) who uses the technique IRL, and I rarely beat him.

 

[Y2Kev]

No, see, the X360 was supposed to have a 5 month headstart MAX. Sony screwed it up, and they have completely wasted the extra year they had to prep things. Microsoft didn't exactly do so hot at the start either.

You LIED!

 

[ethelred]

No, see, the X360 was supposed to have a 5 month headstart MAX. Sony screwed it up, and they have completely wasted the extra year they had to prep things. Microsoft didn't exactly do so hot at the start either.

Welcome back to the mayhem.

 

[Pureauthor]

You LIED!

(or at least on this particular topic)

HaHA!

(GAF is like some sort of addictive drug.)

 

[J-Rzez]

Welcome to the truth folks. The playstation days are over, unless Sony can do the same. WiiSports is actually a fantastic game that deserves GOTY just as much as Gears of War.

Everybody just riding on the "playstation days" are over again huh? I didn't know the PS3 was that terrible... Just like last time, and the time before that, there wasn't an outstanding array of games at launch, and Sony still won by landslides... How can't that happen again? The only thing slowing them down is price-point compared to before... which prices will come down, and wages are going up (my state just increased minimum wage $1/hr, and another $1/hr in mid-summer)... There's a lot up in the air yet... but something that isn't, is that Sony is going to do what they did other times... After the launch drought (outside the AAA title that we got this time with Resistance), you'll get that flood of games... Tried and true, and new...

I really have been hard on Gears, but I can tell you this... Wii Sports doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same catagory of GOTY with Gears... Why should it? because it was something that started out as a tech demo and it ended up a slightly more polished demo? The production value of Gears is outstanding, without a doubt, and if I was a dev that worked on that game and heard it's just as praise-worthy as Wii Sports, I'd try to figure out what went wrong... I have seen JUST as many people laugh having fun with Wii Sports as I have seen laugh that it's rediculously stupid to them and a waste of time...

Yeah, it's cool to have a new option in gaming, but it's a new-direction where we don't know how it's going to hold up over time... I'm sure the Wii is going to have it's couple AAA-titles that Ninty always produces, but how about the rest? Are the controls going to lose it's "new-ness" to people? Are the graphical and multimedia capabilities of the Wii going to turn off a lot of people in the long run? First thing people notice is graphics, and lot's don't understand beyond that... Love at first sight holds true in gaming just as it does in other facets of life... Lot's of people will write it off because of that, and not get beyond that... And then there will be lot's of people that'll notice others doing the wierd motions, and then naturally look at what's going on the TV and then notice the looks...

Graphics are an incredible selling point... and I believe to the masses, that they just don't quite care or get gameplay, it's even more epic of a selling point...

Set a Wii next to a 360 or PS3 in a year or two, and it's not going to be pretty... Yes, it didn't matter in the handheld market, but it's a totally different immersion/experience than sitting down in your living/gaming room and popping something on the TV... I have different wants and needs between the on-the-go and in-the-home gaming, maybe it's just me...

This article is wrong on so many levels... I never knew gaming left the masses... I just know that there was roughly 150+ million consoles sold last gen, and throw in handheld games, that's a lot... The Wii is trying to introduce gaming to a "new" demographic, NOT bringing anything back to the masses...

See, articles like this are trash... There are things EACH console can do that others can NOT... At this time, you can dl movies/shows on xbl, you can't on the PS3... You can DL PSone games through the PS3 and pass them onto the PSP showing Sony's trying to convey connectivity of their products... The Wii has it's unique control scheme... You can't play Zelda on the other two... You can't play H3 on anything other than the 360... you can't play GT on anything other than the PS3...

But man, these guys are definetly trying their damnest to make Sony fail for whatever reason... maybe pulling for the home-team and another competitor to gang up on the leader will change the outcome of this gen they hope?

Man... I hate getting defensive for a company, but it's getting to me even now... I think this press may backfire a bit at what they're seemingly trying to accomplish... And I'm an example... I'm actually defending and supporting Sony now more than I ever had before, and I'm pulling more for them to walk away again with the war...

(p.s.) So many of these articles anymore... are these the same guys that said the PS3 is "hard to write for" based solely on launch titles? :lol

EDIT: holy crap... I'm spent... what the hell got into me?! Sorry to waste your time guys looking at this...

 

[Diablos]

No, see, the X360 was supposed to have a 5 month headstart MAX. Sony screwed it up, and they have completely wasted the extra year they had to prep things. Microsoft didn't exactly do so hot at the start either.

Ok, so they screwed it up. I'm not really going to argue that, but I would definitely say that 360 certainly needed a full year to really start showing off potential.

Even you just agreed that 360 had a pretty weak start.

btw, ideally I'd love to own both a PS3 and 360, so I'm not flaming MS fanboys here. I just think the writer made a generally stupid comment.

 

[ethelred]

And as a pure aside, I'm a gamer. I don't need shit to be accessible, I need it to be good. But that's a separate argument.

Didn't you only like Dragon Quest VIII because of the accessability of the graphics, despite hating the actual gameplay (you know, as a gamer)?

Just sayin'.

 

[Amir0x]

Didn't you only like Dragon Quest VIII because of the accessability of the graphics, despite hating the actual gameplay (you know, as a gamer)?

Just sayin'.

I liked DQVIII because of the graphics and huge explorable 3D world (which contributes to the gameplay). I doubt anyone would call the gameplay accessible to the type of audiences we're discussing here. Heck, I wouldn't even call the graphics 'accessible'... just pretty. I know most 'mainstream' people would dismiss it outright for being cel-shaded (would they say 'kiddy'?) and looking like something out of DBZ :lol

 

[Pureauthor]

Well, yeah, that's part of the point. Microsoft needed around 3/4 of a year to pick themselves up. That's 3/4 of a year handed to them on a silver platter by Sony, after all. Sony were the ones who chose BluRay and it backfired on them.

And concerning DQVIII, I'm pretty certain a fair number of people thought it was DBZ.

 

[Error]

Didn't you only like Dragon Quest VIII because of the accessability of the graphics, despite hating the actual gameplay (you know, as a gamer)?

Just sayin'.

and the really ironic thing here is that, DQ8 is what he hates the most apparently, a regression in gameplay compared to the other DQs before it. DQ8 is mind numbling simple game and this is coming from someone that liked the game and still loves it. take away the purty graphics and you are left with the biggest regression the series has seen since the DQ5 3-party members battles.

 

[Y2Kev]

I liked DQVIII because of the graphics and huge explorable 3D world (which contributes to the gameplay). I doubt anyone would call the gameplay accessible to the type of audiences we're discussing here. Heck, I wouldn't even call the graphics 'accessible'... just pretty. I know most 'mainstream' people would dismiss it outright for being cel-shaded (would they say 'kiddy'?) and looking like something out of DBZ :lol

Amir0x is in a state of super high tension!

Edit: DQ8 is not a regression! It's a streamlining!

 

[drohne]

what do inaccessible graphics look like? maybe they're in elaborate visual code that you need years of training to decipher? gaf has been unusually stupid this morning.

you are left with the biggest regression the series has seen since the DQ5 3-party members battles.

boy, wait til you hear about dq9

 

[RevenantKioku]

what do inaccessible graphics look like? maybe they're in elaborate visual code that you need years of training to decipher? gaf has been unusually stupid this morning.

Might you say, inaccessibly stupid?

I probably wouldn't.

 

[Amir0x]

what do inaccessible graphics look like? maybe they're in elaborate visual code that you need years of training to decipher? gaf has been unusually stupid this morning.

the only thing i could see was if the visual style was unappealing or ugly, then people might not, uh, want to... I don't even know. I think 'accessible' was just the wrong word to use for this argument from ethelred, but I know what he's trying to get at.

However, in terms of gameplay, the thing I liked was the huge explorable 3D world. In my view, this is one thing DQ8 did that I wished many more RPGs from this generation tried. It made going through the game and slogging through the battles (which I enjoyed not one bit more than past DQ games, simplified or not) more acceptable. Because I wanted to explore the next bit of 3D world, and see more of those awesome graphics.

 

[Y2Kev]

I really do love that huge world.

I love getting on my sabrecat and going for a ride. It's so amazing that no other game really tried to do that (that I can think of) this gen. I'm kind of amazed at how BEAUTIFUL DQ8 is. People always say DQ never really was reliant on graphics, but DQ8 looks fantastic. I think it is the cleanest PS2 game too! No jaggies!

 

[Amir0x]

I really do love that huge world.

I love getting on my sabrecat and going for a ride. It's so amazing that no other game really tried to do that (that I can think of) this gen. I'm kind of amazed at how BEAUTIFUL DQ8 is. People always say DQ never really was reliant on graphics, but DQ8 looks fantastic. I think it is the cleanest PS2 game too! No jaggies!

Heh. it had some jaggies, I can remember. But yeah, the Sabrecat thing was sweet.