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[Error]

boy, wait til you hear about dq9

I wont judge it till I play the game it may be very simple and mindless too but DQ1 was simple and mindless and i had fun with the game.

Im not saying DQ8 is a bad game, in fact it's a great game but its really is a regression for the series in terms of gameplay especially after DQ7.

which is why I find funny Amir0x whole "regression in gameplay" bs when he didnt like the other DQs before DQ8 because they are archaic and likes DQ8 for some inexplicable reason (probably graphics) when DQ8 is tone down DQ.

 

[Dilbert]

Thank you for taking the time to put together a well-phrased post. (I disagree with virtually everything you said, but I do appreciate that you moved the discussion forward.) I don't have much to say to you since we are so far apart on how we view things, but I do have to press you on one thing you wrote:

You may call it a 'tech-demo'. But so was Pong. So was Super Mario Brothers. So was Tetris. Wii-Sports is in good company.

In what respect can you say that Pong, Super Mario Brothers, and Tetris were "tech demos?" That's an enormous claim, but I didn't see anyone else ask you to justify it.

 

[BlackTyrano]

I really have been hard on Gears, but I can tell you this... Wii Sports doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same catagory of GOTY with Gears... Why should it? because it was something that started out as a tech demo and it ended up a slightly more polished demo? The production value of Gears is outstanding, without a doubt, and if I was a dev that worked on that game and heard it's just as praise-worthy as Wii Sports, I'd try to figure out what went wrong... I have seen JUST as many people laugh having fun with Wii Sports as I have seen laugh that it's rediculously stupid to them and a waste of time...

I'm sure the devs of GoW understand why Wii Sports could be considered better than GoW far better than you almost anyone on this forum does. The fact is, GoW caters to a certain market. A lot of people would play the game, get bored of it, and they could consider it shit. That's not because they have less value as critics. It's because the game, as every other game, intrinsically has faults that are more apparent to some than others, because people value different ideas in their games. Production values don't mean shit when faced with that.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

Meh, I don't really get the argument. As a showcase for future design with a completely new and different approach to control, Wii Sports is perhaps the most important game this year, and yes it's fun, and most definitely is it very fun when played with others; but the truth is, even if it's fresh approach that should be applauded, its depth and breadth of design and conception falls quite short of what a real full game could and perhaps should entail.

Personally, I look forward to fully-featured baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, etc. titles which derive their controls in what Wii Sports has already shown. And in this, as the very fun tech demo that is, Nintendo has accomplished their mission in showing other dev houses (and of course, setting a bar for themselves on) where to go; let's just hope we're treated to a rendition that fully maintains these controls and raises the bar. That's what I'm excited for.

 

[Amir0x]

I wont judge it till I play the game it may be very simple and mindless too but DQ1 was simple and mindless and i had fun with the game.

Im not saying DQ8 is a bad game, in fact it's a great game but its really is a regression for the series in terms of gameplay especially after DQ7.

the problem is, the battles still were lame to me. I did not enjoy them, so I don't know what point you were trying to make. The thing I liked, and in my view it's a huge gigantic evolution from DQVII, is the mammoth sized explorable 3D world. That's a part of the gameplay too, ya know. And that's what I enjoyed alongside the graphics.

So if your argument was it's ironic I enjoy the gameplay of the least complex DQ game, it kinda doesn't hold weight since I didn't enjoy the random battles, I enjoyed the huge explorable 3D world which no past DQ had (and, btw, the argument against Wii Sports isn't that it's simple... it's that it removes core elements of various sports for the expense of accessibility on top of fundamental motion detection issues. Mario Tennis is simple, and accessible, but it also has everything you'd expect from an arcade version of Tennis).

 

[RevenantKioku]

So if your argument was it's ironic I enjoy the gameplay of the least complex DQ game, it kinda doesn't hold weight since I didn't enjoy the random battles, I enjoyed the huge explorable 3D world which no past DQ had

Bolded part is the only difference, but what do I know? I'm just not a gamer in Amir0x's eyes I guess. Q_Q

 

[Amir0x]

Bolded part is the only difference, but what do I know? I'm just not a gamer in Amir0x's I guess. Q_Q

That is the only difference, and it's a huge difference.

 

[Error]

Bolded part is the only difference, but what do I know? I'm just not a gamer in Amir0x's I guess. Q_Q

yes 3d makes everything better and awesome... didnt you know!?

anyway this thread isnt about DQ, sorry for the derailment there.

 

[RevenantKioku]

That is the only difference, and it's a huge difference.

Actually, it really isn't. Minimal at best since the world of DQ8 feels much smaller than DQ7.
But since I'm talking to a true gamer who doesn't enjoy the actual game parts of the game but everything else, I'll just let it be.

 

[Amir0x]

yes 3d makes everything better and awesome... didnt you know!?

anyway this thread isnt about DQ, sorry for the derailment there.

That's why you want to leave 'cause your argument for irony failed. Sorry for derailing the thread ON SECOND THOUGHT! Just like anything moving to 3D is big if done right, so was this.

Actually, it really isn't. Minimal at best since the world of DQ8 feels much smaller than DQ7.
But since I'm talking to a true gamer who doesn't enjoy the actual game parts of the game but everything else, I'll just let it be.

I played DQVII and beat it and the world felt smaller than DQVIII. Of course, physical size isn't the only part of being 'big'... it's also scale and immersion that contributes to the sense of size a world has. And DQ8 massacred DQ7, in every respect but actual world size here.

P.S. Exploring a huge 3D world is part of the gameplay. Stop trying to act as if it isn't.

 

[Tarazet]

Amir0x makes some fine points in his response to Lapsed, but remember that the $250 NES bundle came with, besides the immortal Super Mario Bros., R.O.B., Gyromite, and Duck Hunt - simple and casual diversions. Both posters seem to have their lines crossed on that point, and they're assigning too much importance to Wii Sports. Wii Sports' only function is to popularize the system; beyond that, it's up to Nintendo to either use the system's potential or squander it.

 

[Zaptruder]

This isn't a happy thread. I think my new years resolution will be to stick to happy threads

 

[RevenantKioku]

P.S. Exploring a huge 3D world is part of the gameplay. Stop trying to act as if it isn't.

I'm sorry, you're obviously having a conversation with shit that I'm not saying.

This isn't a happy thread. I think my new years resolution will be to stick to happy threads

I don't know why I don't do the same. Stubbornness, I guess.

 

[Amir0x]

I'm sorry, you're obviously having a conversation with shit that I'm not saying.

...

But since I'm talking to a true gamer who doesn't enjoy the actual game parts of the game but everything else

I wonder what you are implying here hurr hurr since one of only three elements of DQ8 that I loved (add to that the soundtrack) was a huge explorable 3D world and that's what we're discussing now

 

[Diablos]

This isn't a happy thread. I think my new years resolution will be to stick to happy threads

You might want to stay out of the gaming forum for a while, then.

And to think... things are just getting started! :lol

IMO, this is one of the best times to post on a gaming forum, because so much is going on.

 

[Krowley]

The exploration was my favorite part of DQ8.

It wouldn't have been the same in 2d with lesser graphics. Part of it was the world design and the way everything looked.

I really got into searching for treasure chests. Random encounters interfered a bit, but there was a way to lessen them greatly and it worked out.

That being said... The DS version looks pretty tight. I'm not an old school fan of the series so i don't mind the combat going real time.

 

[Amir0x]

That being said... The DS version looks pretty tight. I'm not an old school fan of the series so i don't mind the combat going real time.

Yeah, the DS DQIX has me excited because it's an action RPG now. That's the positive to come from that announcement, definitely will have to give it a shot

 

[P90]

This isn't a happy thread. I think my new years resolution will be to stick to happy threads

Sales threads>tehnobabble threads>Elitist game snob threads like this one

 

[RevenantKioku]

I wonder what you are implying here hurr hurr since one of only three elements of DQ8 that I loved (add to that the soundtrack) was a huge explorable 3D world and that's what we're discussing now

A bit of a slip on my part, I went back to considering "exploration" as the whole that second time, that is with the battles and the meat of the game-play part, not just the "ooh, pretty".
The crux of the issue, asides from once again derailing a thread, so this will be my last post on the topic, is that we have different wants from games. The accepting, understanding and respect of other's wants in games is the difficult part, and why we have a problem here.
Good day all, and happy holidays. I have Devil Summoner to finish.

 

[Amir0x]

A bit of a slip on my part, I went back to considering "exploration" as the whole that second time, that is with the battles and the meat of the game-play part, not just the "ooh, pretty".
The crux of the issue, asides from once again derailing a thread, so this will be my last post on the topic, is that we have different wants from games. The accepting, understanding and respect of other's wants in games is the difficult part, and why we have a problem here.
Good day all, and happy holidays. I have Devil Summoner to finish.

I respect others wants (despite trying to annoy you about your unusual tastes), as you know the only reason we're having this discussion is because Lapsed made the assertion (or implication, whatever) that people who dislike/hate Wii Sports are the same as those who hated/disliked SMB and Tetris Back in the day... they just fear change. This is the part that's wrong.

I actually agree with NYT's choices (if not the reasons for them)... one cannot deny Wii Sports is the most significant game this year. Is it the GAME of the year, well no not to me. But most significant, certainly.

 

[Tarazet]

I respect others wants (despite trying to annoy you about your unusual tastes), as you know the only reason we're having this discussion is because Lapsed made the assertion (or implication, whatever) that people who dislike/hate Wii Sports are the same as those who hated/disliked SMB and Tetris Back in the day... they just fear change. This is the part that's wrong.

I actually agree with NYT's choices (if not the reasons for them)... one cannot deny Wii Sports is the most significant game this year. Is it the GAME of the year, well no not to me. But most significant, certainly.

I disagree - I don't feel Wii Sports is that important. The way you compared it to Mario Party actually underlined it best. It will sell systems, but will it get the average person to play real games? Think Duck Hunt, not SMB or Tetris.

 

[Krowley]

I disagree - I don't feel Wii Sports is that important. The way you compared it to Mario Party actually underlined it best. It will sell systems, but will it get the average person to play real games? Think Duck Hunt, not SMB or Tetris.

Does it have to get the average person to play real games? if it gets them to play the next wii sports clone, that's a pretty big deal.

edit// cause the "average person" is a pretty large group... if they get attracted to anything, it's a pretty big deal.

 

[Tarazet]

Does it have to get the average person to play real games? if it gets them to play the next wii sports clone, that's a pretty big deal.

It's a big deal for us hardcore gamers in the sense that if the system gets into 100 million households, there will be 100 million potential buyers for the next Dragon Quest. Of course, if that still only gets 100,000 people to buy it (think DQ Heroes on DS), because the userbase still isn't interested, then we've gotten nowhere. All Nintendo has done in this case is feed itself.

 

[plagiarize]

Error2k4, the fact that Wii Sports sucks is honestly beside the point.

i know you well enough to know that's just your opinion, but it's no mystery why people always think you're trying to pass your opinion off as fact .

i could critique a jrpgs story, or graphics, or sound, but i wouldn't be able to objectively tell you whether final fantasy 10 was a better game than 7. i couldn't play two train simulators and have any idea which was the better train simulator.

wii sports is a sports game, but it's one that isn't aimed at hardcore gamers.

lapsed's point that people that hate it are afraid of change, doesn't cover everyone that hates it as you are living proof of, but there is certainly a group of people just like that.

 

[Amir0x]

i know you well enough to know that's just your opinion, but it's no mystery why people always think you're trying to pass your opinion off as fact .p.

Heh, just poor phrasing. It should be 'the fact that my opinion is Wii Sports sucks...'

 

[Deku]

There's a problem with your posts - and most of those patting you on the back and fellating themselves for the new pinnacle of gaming everywhere - and that's this implication that people who aren't fans of Wii Sports are simply afraid of change, that they're the same types of people that will be left behind like those who didn't enjoy SMB or Tetris. The problem with your argument, and again the argument of all who try to parade this perspective, is that in the cases of SMB and Tetris there was no regression. It was, by any standard, and evolution of everything in games AT THE TIME. Regardless of what the argument was from the geeks at the time, You can't claim it was a simplication, SMB was amazingly deep compared to other titles at the time. Tetris could conceivably go on forever, if you're fast enough and talented enough to keep playing. It's a game of hardline skill. It's simple, but only before you consider the complexity came in the actual fitting of the blocks together at progressively higher speeds. It's a hardcores game, just as it is a casuals.

I don't think you understand the argument you're rebutting. Not liking Wii Sports doesn't mean you are afraid of change, but I am somewhat amused that you are troubled by being called that.

As for SMB and Tetris not being regressive, both games belong to an era in gaming where even the most hardcore games on the NES were quite accessible, there was nowhere to regress but progress could infact be made in gameplay complexity (in SMB) without alienating lots of gamers. Tetris is Tetris, and at its core its a simple game.

Lapsed argument though was that like both SMB and Tetris (which introduced a lot of non-gamers to gaming) Wii Sports is in the same league. Whether you personally like it or not or whether you think it has the modes you would like to see is irrelevant.

And I guess you missed his whole section about PC gamers of the time, with their more complex adventure games and RPGs made the same kinds of arguments you are making to today. Both SMB and Tetris appears to be progressive in your mind only because both were flagships of genres which evolved into more complex games and were fondly remembered for it. NES could have easily evolved into a PC for the living room with Dungeons and Dragons, Sid Meier flight sims and Tycoon games and never have a Mario title released for it. That would be the hardcore games of the era, not the Megamans and Marios of your memory.

But it is not the same as SMB. It is NOT the same as Tetris. These were, by any standards, staples that enhanced gaming in every way and regressed in none. Wii Sports is precisely the opposite. It's gaming that regresses gameplay in almost all ways. It is nice that in real life you can point your bat in a specific way and hit it to the stands.

It would be nice if you , apply a bit of imagination to understanding the argument before you make your rebuttal. When your predecessors were Pong and Pitfall, you have nowhere to move but up. But ultimately, you can't argue SMB or Tetris is less accessible than Gears of Wars, Okami or your flavour of the month hardcore game. Oh and FYI SMB and Tetris are very old games. Did you consider that too?

 

[Amir0x]

I don't think you understand the argument you're rebutting. Not liking Wii Sports doesn't mean you are afraid of change, but I am somewhat amused that you are troubled by being called that.

I'm troubled because this seems to be the premiere argument that many people use these days, but it simply is not true. I've never really argued about it before, but this seemed like as good a place as any to start since it's just not true.

Lapsed argument though was that like both SMB and Tetris (which introduced a lot of non-gamers to gaming) Wii Sports is in the same league. Whether you personally like it or not or whether you think it has the modes you would like to see is irrelevant.

Far be it from me to speak FOR Lapsed, so excuse me if my interpretation of his comments is incorrect until he returns for clarification, but this...

You sound just like a hardcore computer gamer in 1986 after playing Super Mario Brothers. And, yes, this was said back then. There was lots of hate of the NES back then from some computer gamer geeks. I know because I was one of them.

...specifically in how he introduced the point in the first sentence, sounds very much like he's implying that the type of gamers who naysayed Tetris and SMB (for whatever reason) sound/are exactly the same as those who now criticize Wii Sports. But they're not at all, the reasons for dislike (for the most part, and speaking from my point of view) is entirely different. And one is far, far more legitimate for my money.

And I guess you missed his whole section about PC gamers of the time, with their more complex adventure games and RPGs made the same kinds of arguments you are making to today. Both SMB and Tetris appears to be progressive in your mind only because both were flagships of genres which evolved into more complex games and were fondly remember. NES could have easily evolved into a PC for the living room with Dungeons and Dragons, Sid Meier flight sims and Tycoon games and never have a Mario title released for it and you would have nothing to compare it with and it would still be a gaming system, no less hardcore than your claims.

SMB and Tetris are entirely different from RPGs and complex adventure games. The type of platformers and puzzle games that existed prior to SMB were not really in the same league. That's why I said, these types of complaints from back in the day aren't really relevant to this. We have tons of sports game of every type on every system on earth. We know what is good, we know what is bad. We all have our own perspective about what is good and bad, but nonetheless the standards are there. I'm complaining about Wii Sports because it's a really poor sports game with really poor sports gameplay. Other sports games don't sacrifice crucial elements to reach its goals, and so here we are.

And that is why i want to separate the people who are 'afraid of change' (those who complained about SMB and Tetris) from those who simply are afraid of crap gameplay (many of those who complain about Wii Sports)

It would be nice if you , apply a bit of imagination to understanding the argument before you make your rebuttal. When your predecessors were Pong and Pitfall, you have nowhere to move but up. But ultimately, you can't argue SMB or Tetris is less accessible than Gears of Wars, Okami or your flavour of the month hardcore game. Oh and FYI SMB and Tetris are very old games. Did you consider that too?

But there's the difference. You can't reject the difference just because it's "a different time, a different place." You're right, there isn't much to move but up. But up it did move. Wii Sports is moving to a different place, neither classified by up or down. It's to its own place. And therefore those who hate it (such as myself) fear not change, but the lack of quality in the game that is getting so much media play.

 

[LukeSmith]

Replace "Playstation 3" with "Playstation 2" and "Xbox" with "Dreamcast" and you basically have late-2000 all over again.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Krowley]

The whole progress/regression aspect of this discussion reminds me of the music industry.

During the 70's rock music reached a pinnacle of technical complexity. There were prog rock bands like Yes and King Crimson and genesis along with iconoclastic musicians like Frank Zappa, mixing rock with jazz and classical and creating these huge symphonic rock compositions.... There were devoted fans for that kind of music (i'm personaly a huge fan) and then there was a rebellion against it. That's were punk came from. It was basicly a rebellion against the pretentious levels that prog rock had attained. You get the ramones and the sex pistols creating a simpler kind of music...

The same thing happened again in the 80's when heavy metal became this technical show-off genre and eventually ended up with bands like dream theater, totally resurrecting progressive rock.. (And I also still love 80's metal). And then Nirvana came and tore it all down with a simpler kind of approach.

In both these era's the bands had reached a level of technical expertise that could only be appreciated by other musicians, like me.. And then something came along and brought it back to basics.

Wii sports may be the sex pistols/ Nirvana of the game industry. A return to very simple gameplay as a rebellion against complexity that the average person can't appreciate.

The game industry hasn't been around long enough for us to find these kinds of trends, but they are present in other forms of entertainment.

 

[Deku]

I'm troubled because this seems to be the premiere argument that many people use these days, but it simply is not true. I've never really argued about it before, but this seemed like as good a place as any to start since it's just not true.

To score a few points I suppose. I know I've used it before myself, but there's certainly some truth in it. I mean your preferences are you own, but in threads where Wii/DS is being discussed and the same points about non-games are bemoaned to the point of repetition, it may be a fair assesment to judge those posters who CHOOSE to post in those threads for no other reasons than to complain.

SMB and Tetris are entirely different from RPGs and complex adventure games. The type of platformers and puzzle games that existed prior to SMB were not really in the same league. That's why I said, these types of complaints from back in the day aren't really relevant to this. We have tons of sports game of every type on every system on earth. We know what is good, we know what is bad. We all have our own perspective about what is good and bad, but nonetheless the standards are there. I'm complaining about Wii Sports because it's a really poor sports game with really poor sports gameplay. Other sports games don't sacrifice crucial elements to reach its goals, and so here we are.

And that is why i want to separate the people who are 'afraid of change' (those who complained about SMB and Tetris) from those who simply are afraid of crap gameplay (many of those who complain about Wii Sports)


But there's the difference. You can't reject the difference just because it's "a different time, a different place." You're right, there isn't much to move but up. But up it did move. Wii Sports is moving to a different place, neither classified by up or down. It's to its own place. And therefore those who hate it (such as myself) fear not change, but the lack of quality in the game that is getting so much media play.

I disagree with your assesment. Your non-comparability argument is actually more compelling as a rebuttal against your own argument. These games are so old and their play mechanics are relatively simple to the point where regardless of whether you are correct about their roles as regressive or progressive forces in gaming, it is irrelevant and. You can't really use " SMB was a progressive game, Wii spots is not" as a valid rebuttal to the argument made. But as forces that introduces new blood into the market, and many of us entered the market on Mario's invitation, Wii Sports, Tetris and SMB are directly comparable. That is the crux of the argument. If you can't disprove that, there's nothing to discuss.

 

[Emerson]

Game of the Year: Wii Sports. What is gaming supposed to be all about? How many pixels are on the screen? Technical mumbo jumbo like memory throughput and high dynamic-range lighting? No. Gaming is supposed to be about fun, and Wii Sports delivered more fun more quickly than anything else I played in 2006. (Helping kill the evil god C’Thun in World of Warcraft was pretty cool too, but that took dozens of hours of practice.) Within minutes of picking up the Wii controller, you and your most game-phobic friends and relatives are laughing and smiling while playing tennis, sinking birdies and trying to bowl that elusive 300 game. Good times.

Is this supposed to be funny or what? Wii Sports, GOTY? Get this shit out of my face. This is why NYT is not a respectable gaming publication.

 

[krypt0nian]

:lol :lol :lol

check your PM's

 

[Branduil]

Sure, some posters may complain about "non-games" taking over Japan. Sure, they may long for the good ol' days of PS2 dominance. Sure they may post about how the industry is going down the tubes if waggle become popular and other companies implement it as well.

But they're not afraid of change. No, not at all.

 

[Monk]

No wonder i feel at home here. You guys can be just as idiotic as me.

It's nice that Grandma can play, but she still don't know shit about games. And this one sucks. And just the fact that she CAN play now is not some positive for the game.

If you think that accessibility for everyone is a bad thing, you just have to face the fact that increasing dev costs will force devs to cater to these guys no matter how exclusive you want gaming to be.


And all those people bitching at NYT because it dares put Wii sports as game of the year, it is a mainstrean newspaper, it caters to the mainstream demographic.

 

[Christberg]

To me, this whole conversation should be boiled down to a simple analogy. Maybe we can replace Wii Sports and Dragon Quest with... say... Monopoly and Dungeons and Dragons.

My family comes over and I want to do something to pass the time. Which do I choose? I don't think there's any question. It's the same exact situation here.

Is Dungeons and Dragons a game with far more time, effort, and thought put into it? Sure. Does it have a list of options that make Monopoly look stupid in comparison? Sure. Can it be argued that Monopoly is kind of a shitty game, and that Dungeons ad Dragons is far superior? Absolutely. I don't like Monopoly much myself- shit, I think it's tic-tac-toe played with dice writ large for all intents and purposes. This doesn't change anything.

 

[Deku]

FYI Dragon Quest is a simplified RPG based on Wizardry RPG of the west. The reason why its so successful in Japan and spawned an entire industry there is because its accessible compared to other games of the same genre.

 

[KINGMOKU]

Everytime I see one of these threads, I already know how the conversation is going to go, and usually who's involved.


GAF member-"You work for the NYT?" NYT writer-"Yes, I do" GAF member-"Moran".

Just replace NYT writer, with a myriad of other respectable Newspapers, Magazines, websites, e.t.c.

Just awesome, each and every thread.

Breaking thru trends, and creating new ones always creates the best "writer said this" threads though, as they always bring out those who just cant see 2inches past thier own nose.

Industry shift=mass suicides all around.

 

[Christberg]

FYI Dragon Quest is a simplified RPG based on Wizardry RPG of the west. The reason why its so successful in Japan and spawned an entire industry there is because its accessible compared to other games of the same genre.

That's fine. Doesn't really change anything. I guess I could throw Oblivion in there instead to make the point even more obvious but I don't think it's really necessary for me to do so.

 

[cvxfreak]

Arguing about the quality of Wii Sports is one of the most useless diatribes one can engage in.

The masses don't give a shit if the hardcore hate it. Because they hate the hardcoe.

 

[Amir0x]

Arguing about the quality of Wii Sports is one of the most useless diatribes one can engage in.

The masses don't give a shit if the hardcore hate it. Because they hate the hardcoe.

Right, and this is a forum for hardcore gamers. But, although this argument has been put in the spin cycle fifty times and so the source may be difficult for some people to derive, this specific discussion is merely a response to Lapsed comment that those who hated on SMB and Tetris back in the day are the same type of gamers who are naysaying Wii Sports now. Which is, simply, incorrect.

All the other billion possible offshoots of the conversation regarding mainstream gamers, and how awesome it is that Grandma can play, and how right or wrong NYT is regarding their selection of Wii Sports has nothing to do with what was said in that debate.

 

[cvxfreak]

Right, and this is a forum for hardcore gamers. But, although this argument has been put in the spin cycle fifty times and so the source may be difficult for some people to derive, this specific discussion is merely a response to Lapsed comment that those who hated on SMB and Tetris back in the day are the same type of gamers who are naysaying Wii Sports now. Which is, simply, incorrect.

All the other billion possible offshoots of the conversation regarding mainstream gamers, and how awesome it is that Grandma can play, and how right or wrong NYT is regarding their selection of Wii Sports has nothing to do with what was said in that debate.

The fact of the matter is that it's been done in this thread, and the point needs to be reiterated.

 

[Amir0x]

right people like shit, but i doubt that point needed to be reiterated. basically anything in every medium ever that is popular is usually helmed by many things that are shitty.

so of course the masses don't care. After all, they liked Diary of a Mad Black Woman.

 

[Branduil]

And they also like Lord of the Rings and Pixar movies. This is a terrible argument.

 

[cvxfreak]

right people like shit, but i doubt that point needed to be reiterated. basically anything in every medium ever that is popular is usually helmed by many things that are shitty.

so of course the masses don't care. After all, they liked Diary of a Mad Black Women.

I know I hate to say this, but your opinion doesn't really mean much. :/

 

[Amir0x]

I know I hate to say this, but your opinion doesn't really mean much. :/

And neither does yours. But here we are, expressing them.

And they also like Lord of the Rings and Pixar movies. This is a terrible argument.

Point missed. The point was being 'reiterated' by cvxfreak that the masses don't care if we think what they like is shit. That point is proven, over and over again, by the fact that what is popular is very often atrocious.

 

[cvxfreak]

And neither does yours. But here we are, expressing them.

The difference is, my opinion on the Wii Sports debate being useless is actually somewhat measurable because your opinions won't have actually done much to deter from the fact the masses want it, and your rebuttal is simply "the masses don't care."

Meanwhile you're arguing about the quality of Wii Sports which is completely subjective.

 

[Amir0x]

The difference is, my opinion on the Wii Sports debate being useless is actually somewhat measurable because your opinions won't have actually done much to deter from the fact the masses want it, and your rebuttal is simply "the masses don't care."

Meanwhile you're arguing about the quality of Wii Sports which is completely subjective.

My opinion will have done precisely nothing except spawn more opinions from other forumers. Same as yours. My opinion here on the quality of Wii Sports has nothing at all to do with trying to make a meaningful impact on Wii Sports sales or how much the masses want it, so I don't even know why you'd think it's relevant to say this. Shit, the debate isn't even ABOUT whether the masses want it or not.

Only thing it's about: People who hated Tetris/SMB being equal/similar/the same type of gamer who now hate upon Wii Sports and fear change. My response is that's not true, there are a billion legitimate reasons to hate/dislike/be lukewarm on Wi Sports and it has nothing to do with fearing change.

And that's all. I don't know why you feel these other angles are important to this conversation.

 

[Y2Kev]

How does anyone actually KNOW if the masses want it? Shouldn't we at least wait for the game to, you know, sell to the masses? Yeah, it's great that my Mom and sister liked it, but they'd never buy it on their own and they couldn't right now even if they wanted.

So I think we should wait.

 

[Amir0x]

How does anyone actually KNOW if the masses want it? Shouldn't we at least wait for the game to, you know, sell to the masses?

I'm assuming this position is generally true... for some reason, the thing has ingrained itself on the minds of many people who before wouldn't consider games. Anecdotal, yes, but I don't doubt it'll be reflected by sales and consoles sold in due time when supply isn't restrained.

 

[CajoleJuice]

Are you guys reading what Amirox is typing?