Listen. You have no sense of strategy. His plan has plenty of holes, if things fall into the wrong hole then he would be in an even worse situation.
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NYT: Russian govt drops student exchange program after gay teen seeks asylum in US
- Thread starter Father_Brain
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Listen. You have no sense of strategy. His plan has plenty of holes, if things fall into the wrong hole then he would be in an even worse situation.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
He survived so far what is 1 more year? He could have had his "Foster parents buy the ticket." Unless there was a gang waiting to kill I still say he could have waited.
You can say that for every single asylum seeker ever in the history of ever. They have survived thus far, why not wait until they can legally move on their own?
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Listen. You have no sense of strategy. His plan has plenty of holes, if things fall into the wrong hole then he would be in an even worse situation.
Seriously?
Go educate yourself about what happens to gays in Russia, if he was afraid for his life I don't think he was in the right state of mind to sit and think logically about things.
Listen. You have no sense of strategy. His plan has plenty of holes, if things fall into the wrong hole then he would be in an even worse situation.
Sense of strategy? The kid's probably scared out of his mind of being caught by one of these groups. Try to have some empathy, put yourself in his shoes. Do some research as to what goes on over there. It's fucking frightening that shit like that is allowed in this day and age. If anything we should be surprised that there isn't some kind of mass exodus of gays from Russia.
Sense of strategy? The kid's probably scared out of his mind of being caught by one of these groups.
If he was being targeted then yes it would be worth the risk, the article doesn't say that. You would also have to assume that he was openly gay.
Let's say of he gets shipped back and he would not be in any trouble. Then it would be worth the risk.
In reality if he has to come back he is done. RUSSIAN PRISON is no joke.
If he was being targeted then yes it would be worth the risk, the article doesn't say that. You would also have to assume that he was openly gay.
Let's say of he gets shipped back and he would not be in any trouble. Then it would be worth the risk.
In reality if he has to come back he is done. RUSSIAN PRISON is no joke.
Did you read anything I posted? Have you gone and watched that documentary? You talk like someone that has no idea what's going on over there. All gays, open and closeted, are being targeted by these groups and there's no one doing shit to protect them. All it would take is one slip up on his part, one word to the wrong person and he'd be fucked.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Let's say of he gets shipped back and he would not be in any trouble. Then it would be worth the risk.
In reality if he has to come back he is done. RUSSIAN PRISON is no joke.
I'm guessing he thought there was a significant chance of being found out and worth the risk to seek asylum.
I don't think it's fair to blame the kid and call out his "strategy", he's not even an adult and lived in a place where gays are persecuted day in day out, I would have done the same thing.
What the hell is up with the victim-blaming going on in this thread? Are some of you avoid of empathy for another human being?
"He should have waited" "He should have been smarter" "He broke the law, so he can suffer the consequences."
As a gay man I can't believe what I'm reading here, this is entirely Russia's fault, THEY implemented the laws that have made it such a volatile environment to be gay in. If the gay youths of Russia feel that are under such extreme persecution from their own government that they have to flee their place of birth leaving behind their friends, family, an entire way of life to go into a foreign country that speaks VOLUMES about the Russian government and not of a scared persecuted individual.
"He should have waited" "He should have been smarter" "He broke the law, so he can suffer the consequences."
As a gay man I can't believe what I'm reading here, this is entirely Russia's fault, THEY implemented the laws that have made it such a volatile environment to be gay in. If the gay youths of Russia feel that are under such extreme persecution from their own government that they have to flee their place of birth leaving behind their friends, family, an entire way of life to go into a foreign country that speaks VOLUMES about the Russian government and not of a scared persecuted individual.
This is a video report on the situation in Russia by Human Rights Watch. It includes footage anti-gay mobs have recorded themselves of what they do to Gay people. Much of the footage is very disturbing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMTbFSJ_Tr4
Educate yourself as to why the kid fears a future at home
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMTbFSJ_Tr4
Educate yourself as to why the kid fears a future at home
Don't want gays in Russia
Don't want gays outside of Russia
What exactly do you want, Putin?!
You hate what you are... if the US congress is any indication.
Something tells me Putin plays both ways.
well, if he violated the law, he violated the law
I'm not sure what law he violated and even then Russian law doesn't apply in the US. He literally gave his active dissent to be judged by Russian law by fleeing the country. The only thing here is an agreement between Russia and the US, which the US violated by allowing it.
Thatonemoor
Member
Wait...... what's going to happen to my Russian tutor that's an exchange student D:
whatever77
Banned
T minus 5 years to re-erect the the Lenin statues, alone side the Putin statues.
Putin hates Lenin.T minus 5 years to re-erect the the Lenin statues, alone side the Putin statues.
He is a tsar not a comrade.
Lenin and co made homosexuality legal before Stalin changed things.
Father_Brain
Banned
The kid made a bad decision, but it is to be expected, as he is just a kid. The "guardians", who apparently urged him to seek asylum in the United States made even a worse decision, and rather stupid, if I can add.
First of all, the treaty under which the exchange program works explicity states that is the obligation of each country (US and Russia) to make sure each student returns to their home country. This was not the US' fault though, it was the kid's, but has put the country in a difficult position.
Second, the boy has a living mother in Russia. How can two random Americans suddenly declare themselves "guardians" of the kid if he is a minor with a living mother in another country? That surely breaks a couple of regulations, you cannot just declare yourself guardian of someone. There needs to be a legal procedure.
This guy could just have waited for what... one more year? Until he was 18 and then leave safely (and legally) his country. Different would be the case if he had been threatened or something and he had escaped, but it does not seem to be the case.
The selfishness of this kid has ruined the possibility of many Americans and Russians of enjoying the benefits of this program.
...why are you taking the Russian propaganda version of this story at face value?
The kid made a bad decision, but it is to be expected, as he is just a kid. The "guardians", who apparently urged him to seek asylum in the United States made even a worse decision, and rather stupid, if I can add.
First of all, the treaty under which the exchange program works explicity states that is the obligation of each country (US and Russia) to make sure each student returns to their home country. This was not the US' fault though, it was the kid's, but has put the country in a difficult position.
Second, the boy has a living mother in Russia. How can two random Americans suddenly declare themselves "guardians" of the kid if he is a minor with a living mother in another country? That surely breaks a couple of regulations, you cannot just declare yourself guardian of someone. There needs to be a legal procedure.
This guy could just have waited for what... one more year? Until he was 18 and then leave safely (and legally) his country. Different would be the case if he had been threatened or something and he had escaped, but it does not seem to be the case.
The selfishness of this kid has ruined the possibility of many Americans and Russians of enjoying the benefits of this program.
So why don't you go there and be persecuted if you think everything is so black and white? It's easy to lay blame and criticism at others when you're not the one to face a potential nightmare existence in your homeland. The terms of the treaty mean nothing if there is a legit reason for asylum. You've not walked in this kids shoes, so who are to question his need to stay in the U.S.?
frankie_baby
Member
I can't believe people on GAF are suggesting the young man is in the wrong, seriously he's gay, he's Russian, of course he shouldn't go back
Resident_UA
Member
1. Why are people name dropping Putin? Like Putin is even remotely involved in this blockbuster case.
2. The kid was wrong. Here is why. If he gets shipped back to mother Russia he is FUCKED. He should have waited a few years and left safely. Why risk going to prison in Russia? Patience is the jewel of the body.
WOW really?! What planet do you live on?
1. Putin is god in Russia and everything gets sanctioned by him. Don't believe me? Watch Russian TV, they don't even hide it. In fact they boast about it.
2. They are dropping the whole program! Because of one kid! This is ridiculous!
kitchenmotors
Banned
The victims blaming in this thread makes me sick. But I really shouldn't be surprised.
Yeah the proof is in the pudding. A boy lives his entire life in Russia. Then he comes to America and decides to stay. So what does that say about Russian society in general? If it's shitty then of course teenagers won't want to come back. The truth hurts I guess.
If anything the Russian government is just embarrased. They enjoy living with their delusions. The exchange program could become a pipeline for kids like this.
If anything the Russian government is just embarrased. They enjoy living with their delusions. The exchange program could become a pipeline for kids like this.
Don't want gays in Russia
Don't want gays outside of Russia
What exactly do you want, Putin?!
He wants obedience and power and anyone who speaks up to have a bullet in their head.
BertramCooper
Banned
1. Why are people name dropping Putin? Like Putin is even remotely involved in this blockbuster case.
2. The kid was wrong. Here is why. If he gets shipped back to mother Russia he is FUCKED. He should have waited a few years and left safely. Why risk going to prison in Russia? Patience is the jewel of the body.
The kid made a bad decision, but it is to be expected, as he is just a kid. The "guardians", who apparently urged him to seek asylum in the United States made even a worse decision, and rather stupid, if I can add.
First of all, the treaty under which the exchange program works explicity states that is the obligation of each country (US and Russia) to make sure each student returns to their home country. This was not the US' fault though, it was the kid's, but has put the country in a difficult position.
Second, the boy has a living mother in Russia. How can two random Americans suddenly declare themselves "guardians" of the kid if he is a minor with a living mother in another country? That surely breaks a couple of regulations, you cannot just declare yourself guardian of someone. There needs to be a legal procedure.
This guy could just have waited for what... one more year? Until he was 18 and then leave safely (and legally) his country. Different would be the case if he had been threatened or something and he had escaped, but it does not seem to be the case.
The selfishness of this kid has ruined the possibility of many Americans and Russians of enjoying the benefits of this program.
Jesus Christ.
He feels he couldn't have waited, until you are in that situation it's easy to sit in a warm house, safe, on your computer chair and say otherwise.
I've seen videos and documentaries of the situation with gays in Russia, gangs of skinheads who lure gays with dating adverts then force them to do degrading sexual things to the skinheads and are beaten to within an inch of their life.
I think he did the right thing, something I probably would have done at 17.
What about his actual mother? Will she be allowed to relocate to the US as well? Let's not forget is a minor we're talking about.
That Russia is no safe place for homosexual people is evident. I've seen the documentaries as well. I just don't think he took the right decision, mainly because he has still living relatives (a mother, nothing less) over there, and it seems like he was somehow lured by his so-called guardians. If they care so much for him, why not let him go back and then help pay a ticket for him and his mother?
Lot of people saying here that Putin is cutting off his nose to spite his face.
Putin gains nothing through these students living in the US - if anything, having students going to the US and experiencing a different side of history, and non-pro-russian propaganda is a real negative.
Putin wins in this case.
Also, a lot of people here seem to have a really bizarre idea about changing country legally. Not sure where everyone is getting the idea that it would be simple to relocate from Russia to US as an 18 year old. Kid made the right move.
Putin gains nothing through these students living in the US - if anything, having students going to the US and experiencing a different side of history, and non-pro-russian propaganda is a real negative.
Putin wins in this case.
Also, a lot of people here seem to have a really bizarre idea about changing country legally. Not sure where everyone is getting the idea that it would be simple to relocate from Russia to US as an 18 year old. Kid made the right move.
BertramCooper
Banned
And minors are allowed to apply for asylum in the United States.What about his actual mother? Will she be allowed to relocate to the US as well? Let's not forget is a minor we're talking about.
What about his actual mother? Will she be allowed to relocate to the US as well? Let's not forget is a minor we're talking about.
That Russia is no safe place for homosexual people is evident. I've seen the documentaries as well. I just don't think he took the right decision, mainly because he has still living relatives (a mother, nothing less) over there, and it seems like he was somehow lured by his so-called guardians. If they care so much for him, why not let him go back and then help pay a ticket for him and his mother?
Well since you've made so many leaps, I feel I can too. How do you know they didn't? Maybe she didn't want to move to a foreign country. How do you know his mother wasn't abusive? How do you know his mother is really looking out for his best interests? Let's keep playing this guessing game.
How can we hold a minor against their parent's wishes? If the parent is unfit that is one thing, but this doesn't seem to be the case. I wouldn't want to kid to have to go back, but do we have any legal standing to keep him here and away from his biological parents? I'm torn really.
And minors are allowed to apply for asylum in the United States.
Good. I'm just concerned about the mother. Will she even be able to see or visit her own son? Who named those two Americans guardians of the minor?
Some real shitty people in this thread.
Thank you for your thoughtful response, God forbid people to have an opinion different to yours.
Well since you've made so many leaps, I feel I can too. How do you know they didn't? Maybe she didn't want to move to a foreign country. How do you know his mother wasn't abusive? How do you know his mother is really looking out for his best interests? Let's keep playing this guessing game.
Well, until proven that she was actually a homophobic abusive parent, we can assume his mother should have a saying in what happens to her underage son. At least more so than the two random Americans that lured the boy into seeking asylum.
How can we hold a minor against their parent's wishes? If the parent is unfit that is one thing, but this doesn't seem to be the case. I wouldn't want to kid to have to go back, but do we have any legal standing to keep him here and away from his biological parents? I'm torn really.
Yes,he's 17. He can be emancipated if it comes to that. It happens all the time. Being from a foreign country makes it a little more trickier, but doable.
BertramCooper
Banned
Would people in this thread be questioning the intentions of the American couple if they were heterosexual? Just curious.
Well, until proven that she was actually an homophobic abusive parent, we can assume his mother should have a saying in what happens to his underage son. At least more so than the two random Americans that lured the boy into seeking asylum.
No we don't have to assume anything because we don't know. We don't know what's been proven. I'm so glad you know everything HE should do because of his mother. Not everybody has loving parents. You admit it's bad for gays in Russia, yet you have no problem with the mother insisting on his return. Just because she's his mother doesn't mean she gets to put him in potential harms way.
No we don't have to assume anything because we don't know. We don't know what's been proven. I'm so glad you know everything HE should do because of his mother. Not everybody has loving parents. You admit it's bad for gays in Russia, yet you have no problem with the mother insisting on his return. Just because she's his mother doesn't mean she gets to put him in potential harms way.
Well, he would certainly be endangered if he returns now, so I'm not arguing that he should go back, I'm just saying that I don't think the "procedure" was the best one, especially because it seems he did not reach the "I need asylum" conclusion by himself. I repeat, if it happens that waiting for him in Russia there was a gang that was going to beat him up the instant he returned, then ok. But unless he was openly gay (and knowing how things are in Russia for homosexual people, the logical thing would be not to be openly gay while you're there), he probably was not under any imminent danger.
We shouldn't assume anything? When we find underage people alone and/or in trouble, the normal thing is to locate their parents and see what's happened. We don't go around thinking "oh, but the child's parents might be drunk sociopaths, so better not". We assume the parents know/want the best for their children and are capable of parenting until proven contrary.
frankie_baby
Member
How can we hold a minor against their parent's wishes? If the parent is unfit that is one thing, but this doesn't seem to be the case. I wouldn't want to kid to have to go back, but do we have any legal standing to keep him here and away from his biological parents? I'm torn really.
He's 17, surely old enough to decide for himself to seek asylum
Well, he would certainly be endangered if he returns now, so I'm not arguing that he should go back, I'm just saying that I don't think the "procedure" was the best one, especially because it seems he did not reach the "I need asylum" conclusion by himself. I repeat, if it happens that waiting for him in Russia there was a gang that was going to beat him up the instant he returned, then ok. But unless he was openly gay (and knowing how things are in Russia for homosexual people, the logical thing would be not to be openly gay while you're there), he probably was not under any imminent danger.
We shouldn't assume anything? When we find underage people alone and/or in trouble, the normal thing is to locate their parents and see what's happened. We don't go around thinking "oh, but the child's parents might be drunk sociopaths, so better not". We assume the parents know/want the best for their children and are capable of parenting until proven contrary.
Leaps, leaps ,leaps and more leaps.You keep saying this yet have no idea what was investigated. Did you talk to this kid or the agency investigating? Because they are not commenting right now because of privacy issues. Do you know if they have spoke to the mother? You're worried about a procedure, yet you have no idea what went down with this kid.
On a seperate note and this isn't directed to you specifically, Why do I get the feeling if the couple that convinced him was straight nobody would have this problem? It's a gay couple so it must of been coercion. They couldn't have possibly seen something terrible and wanted to help. You've come to some conclusion that this kid was coerced. How do you have any idea what they did? You don't know them.
He's 17, surely old enough to decide for himself to seek asylum
Exactly. Just because he's below the (arbitrary) age of adulthood doesn't mean he MUST be with his mother, especially if he has legitimate fear for his life.
The US takes minors away from their biological parents all the time when they're being abused at home.
Yes he does but it's too RISKY. I would not take the risk. I would rather wait and bide my time.
That sounds even riskier. Imagine if being straight was persucted so you must not look at girls for too long because someone might think your straight? Being scared to death of googling "hot girls porn sex" because it might be tracked?
He can't have sex because thats too risky, he can't interact with other people like him, he can't do shit in russia.
Not to mention that there are several stories where straight men persuade gay men to have sex only to out them and humiliate/kill them.
What he did was right. He got out.
ShinRPGamer
Member
Good god the victim-blaming in this thread. When you have good reason to legitimately fear for your life, I think it's okay to take the first chance you can too save yourself. I will say that it does suck for those who wanted to be in the student exchange program but that's on Russia's government not the kid.
kitchenmotors
Banned
Would people in this thread be questioning the intentions of the American couple if they were heterosexual? Just curious.
I'm not sure, but the fact that someone used the word lure, as if there is something more behind the foster parents intentions other than the safety of this individual is disgusting.
I'm not sure, but the fact that someone used the word lure, as if there is something more behind the foster parents intentions other than the safety of this individual is disgusting.
If that's how was interpreted, then perhaps I used the wrong word. "Convinced", then. I don't doubt the couple might have had good intentions. But still I think the way they did it was not the best way to do it. The question remains unanswered; they named themselves guardians of the 17-year old or were they given legal custody over him? That's what I'm wondering. I really don't care if they are homosexual or not.
Good. I'm just concerned about the mother. Will she even be able to see or visit her own son? Who named those two Americans guardians of the minor?
Thank you for your thoughtful response, God forbid people to have an opinion different to yours.
Well, until proven that she was actually a homophobic abusive parent, we can assume his mother should have a saying in what happens to her underage son. At least more so than the two random Americans that lured the boy into seeking asylum.
How dare those evil gays lure somebody away with lies of being told he might not be arrested just for being who he is. BURN THEM!
it seems like he was somehow lured by his so-called guardians.
because it seems he did not reach the "I need asylum" conclusion by himself.
Yes, a 17 year old gay Russian was lured and coerced into seeking asylum. Yep I can think of NO reason a 17 year old gay Russian teen would want to stay in the US and not go back to Russia.
If not for meeting that homosexual couple, he would've happily went back to Russia to spend his life in the closet, and he would've had nothing to fear, and would have a great quality of life.
Yes, a 17 year old gay Russian was lured and coerced into seeking asylum. Yep I can think of NO reason a 17 year old gay Russian teen would want to stay in the US and not go back to Russia.
If not for meeting that homosexual couple, he would've happily went back to Russia to spend his life in the closet, and he would've had nothing to fear, and would have a great quality of life.
He probably wasn't even gay at all until the couple lured him into it!
The question remains unanswered; they named themselves guardians of the 17-year old or were they given legal custody over him? That's what I'm wondering. I really don't care if they are homosexual or not.
The lawyer said that the boy was 17, not 16, and that he “was afraid to go home” and therefore had been put in federal custody through the Department of Health and Human Services Office of Refugee Resettlement.
The boy, Ms. Reed said, has been placed by the government into foster care. “The sexual orientation of that foster family is irrelevant,” she said.
Ms. Reed also noted that she was married to a man and was a practicing Roman Catholic with two children, in contrast to the description of the lawyers in the Tass account.
He was placed into foster care.
He was placed into foster care.
Yeah but the foster home probably didn't follow the correct procedure so it doesn't count.
He was placed into foster care.
Alright then. I just hope the mother can get a chance to see her son at some point.
titiklabingapat
Member
Wait, we actually have a victim blaming squad on GAF??
Defense forces, white knights, and victim blaming squads. I have seen it all now.
Ummm, I have some news to tell you, but that's exactly what asylum is for. His lawyer just got a bonanza and probably doing back flips right now as his case just became a lot easier. It's guaranteed he will get the asylum approved. He now has direct quotes specifically naming his client as a target of persecution. Can't ask for a better evidence.
Defense forces, white knights, and victim blaming squads. I have seen it all now.
If I had some guarantee that I wouldn't be shipped back then yes. you know if he goes back he is going to prison. RUSSIAN PRISON.
Ummm, I have some news to tell you, but that's exactly what asylum is for. His lawyer just got a bonanza and probably doing back flips right now as his case just became a lot easier. It's guaranteed he will get the asylum approved. He now has direct quotes specifically naming his client as a target of persecution. Can't ask for a better evidence.
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