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[Blackface]

I made a thread about this since I apparently missed this thread, so I decided to just post in here. Hopefully I can get some of my questions answered; I have been out of the PC loop for quite a while and am looking to build a new rig in the near future in the 500-1000 dollar range (or cheaper if possible) I basically need a new motherboard, CPU, video card, memory, and tower - MAYBE a new sound card if I get some good deals on the rest. I've been browsing a bit over at newegg to see what is up and am a bit confused/torn in some areas since I have not been keeping up to date with my computer tech as of late.

Some questions I have:

- PCI express vs. PCI, and SLI. Now...I'm aware that SLI is taking two identical video cards (that support the feature - speaking of which - are both Nvidia and ATI able to do this?) and connecting them together for each to render each half of the screen simultaneously for a rather large graphical boost. I read somewhere that this is only supported by AMD? Or was that old news and Intel now supports this feature? (I don't plan on buying two video cards at the moment, but I'd like to have the option to buy the same video card sometime down the road if it gets cheap for a nice upgrade).

Also is PCI express the way to go? Would this be a good card that would last me a while? (It seems like a good deal especially with the 30 dollar mail-in-rebate) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814145157

- CPU's: AMD or Intel? Like I just said, I would like to have SLI support so that my card won't go to waste when it comes time to upgrade the graphics, so if Intel doesn't support the feature I think I might want to go AMD. The only issue I have with that is that I thought I heard that Intel is up on top again, but this is only the case for the very top of the line CPU's or something (which I am not planning on buying).

I was thinking that this CPU/MOBO combo looked like a reasonable bargain (but then again what do I know?): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128337

Would that processor and MOBO have good bang for the buck?

I was assuming this would be decent RAM to purchase (this is all based on me reading a few of the reviews, not direct experience with these products): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145184

As for the tower, I want something that is quiet yet keeps things as cool as possible...for as cheap as possible. As tempting as it is to buy this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129043 (I LOVE how it looks...all those blue fan vents look sexy) I was thinking something along the lines of this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811146041 since it is SO much cheaper. It even has a mail-in-rebate to bring down the price even further, so it would be difficult for me to convince myself to buy the Antec, as much as I love the design.

Any recommendations on sound cards would also be great. I currently use a Sound Blaster Audigy (the first one) and it works great with my 5.1 surround setup, but Creative no longer supports it so that has me worried a bit.

1. SLI - ATI's version is called Crossfire. Intel chipsets support Crossfire, Nvidia chipsets support SLI.

2. PCI-EXpress is the standard for video cards now. It's far faster then AGP or PCI ever was, and all cards are now just assumed to be PCI-E. You have to search just to find AGP or PCI graphic cards any longer. PCI-E X 16 is the top end, and all high end cards use it.

3. The CPU makes no difference about SLI. Just the motherboard Chipset. You can have a board with Nvidia chipset, and an Intel CPU.

4. Don't buy AMD. Intel is the best, they have the best CPU's hands down. They win on every single benchmark. AMD CPU's are now mainly used HTPC's, energy effecient servers, servers, and building super budget rigs. Core 2 Duo, and Core 2 quad, are the best, and AMD is not even trying to compete until next generation.

5. The ram and motherboard don't show up via the links.

 

[Blackface]

I have never been so stuck in my life! GX2 vs 4870! =/

If you go with an X38 chipset, that has two PCI slots. Get the 4870. It's just about on par with the GX2, new drivers on on the way, and you will be able to buy another and Cross fire them, which shits all over the gx2 and 2 X Gx2's face.

9800GX2 is also losing support. Much like my Evga 9800GTX, which is almost impossible to find now, and when you do is way over 300.

 

[Branskins]

Aren't X38s a little expensive? I would love to do it, but the price would need to be around 130-150.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

p45 boards IMO are better than the X38/X48 boards.

 

[Blackface]

Aren't X38s a little expensive? I would love to do it, but the price would need to be around 130-150.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131299

This will also work.

 

[Chiggs]

If you go with an X38 chipset, that has two PCI slots. Get the 4870. It's just about on par with the GX2, new drivers on on the way, and you will be able to buy another and Cross fire them, which shits all over the gx2 and 2 X Gx2's face.

9800GX2 is also losing support. Much like my Evga 9800GTX, which is almost impossible to find now, and when you do is way over 300.

Crossfire'd 4870's would be nice, but if he's only going for a single card, I don't see how you can say the 4870 is just about on par with a 9800GX2.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-4870,1964.html

Clearly, not the case. That review also tests at 1680 X 1050, and the GX2 is still 10 FPS ahead in a lot of the games, and sometimes by much, much more depending on the res. Really, the GX2 is noticeably more powerful.

As far as the support thing goes, the card was released about 5-6 months ago, I don't think they're going to be dropping support. The 175.19's were released on June 23rd. Also, since the 8/9 series are compatible with PhysX, I would expect to see routine updates.

 

[Riddler]

Get Vista Ultimate x64 skip home prem.
Good card depending on your wants. IE OC'ing or not OC'ing. I'd personally go 2 x 880GT's or 1 x 8800GT + 1 GTX260.
PSU--- A little overkill unless you're planning on SLi soon.
Core 2 Quad--- Good choice but if you can, go up to the 9550 for a faster clock + 6MB more cache.
Motherboard is good.
Blu-Ray on the computer.... unless you're hooking it up to a 32" TV or larger, skip.
Lite-On or Samsung make the best DVD Burners right now. I have a Samsung that is great.
Get at least a 750GB 7200.10 drive SATA II. They're going for like $99 bucks @ The Egg. I just ordered one on Sunday and should be getting it tomorrow. Really no reason not to get a bigger drive.

Thanks I'll make the changes.

Well, it's really that it won't scale well in older games. If you look at the benches of modern games, the card is a powerhouse. And micro-stuttering is so blown out of proportion, IMO.

i'm sure i'll keep my old PC for my older games so I'm fine.

 

[Branskins]

Would the p35 be better if I don't plan on using 2 cards?

 

[Blackface]

Crossfire'd 4870's would be nice, but if he's only going for a single card, I don't see how you can say the 4870 is just about on par with a 9800GX2.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-4870,1964.html

Clearly, not the case. That review also tests at 1680 X 1050, and the GX2 is still 10+ FPS in a lot of the games, and sometimes by much, much more. Really, the GX2 is noticeably more powerful.

As far as the support thing goes, the card was released about 5-6 months ago, I don't think they're going to be dropping support. The 175.19's were released on June 23rd. Also, since the 8/9 series are compatible with PhysX, I would expect to see routine updates.

GX2 pulls ahead in MAX frames, but not MIN frames. MIN frames happen when the action happens. Max frames is nice, but you are not always AT max frames. You are in between max and min.

This is why Toms has 4870 listed ahead of the gx2 for Crysis on a 22 inch monitor, when the X2 has more max frames.

You can get high max frames by staring at a wall, but when the action hits, is when min frames make the difference.

4870 is damn near even on min frames, and sometimes has higher min frames then the GX2.

Couple this with the fact it's good drivers are not even out, and He will be able to buy another 4870 at Xmas, for cheaper then it's going now, and Xfire them to have an amazing setup.

I still go with the 4870.

 

[MisterAnderson]

1. SLI - ATI's version is called Crossfire. Intel chipsets support Crossfire, Nvidia chipsets support SLI.

2. PCI-EXpress is the standard for video cards now. It's far faster then AGP or PCI ever was, and all cards are now just assumed to be PCI-E. You have to search just to find AGP or PCI graphic cards any longer. PCI-E X 16 is the top end, and all high end cards use it.

3. The CPU makes no difference about SLI. Just the motherboard Chipset. You can have a board with Nvidia chipset, and an Intel CPU.

4. Don't buy AMD. Intel is the best, they have the best CPU's hands down. They win on every single benchmark. AMD CPU's are now mainly used HTPC's, energy effecient servers, servers, and building super budget rigs. Core 2 Duo, and Core 2 quad, are the best, and AMD is not even trying to compete until next generation.

5. The ram and motherboard don't show up via the links.

The motherboard link is a combo deal that includes this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128337

and this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037

and the RAM link was: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184

 

[Blackface]

[/B]

The motherboard link is a combo deal that includes this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128337

and this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037

and the RAM link was: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184

all of what you linked is good.

 

[Riddler]

1. You don't need DDR3 memory.
2. What PSU is 800W? Makes a huge difference.
3. If I were you I would save money on the 790I motherboard(you don't need it, especially with a single gx2)
4. With the saved money buy an E8400 or a Q9450. Both better then the Q9300 for gaming
5. Get a 4870.
6. Where is the case? Current GFX cards are gigantic, and many cases do not have the space for them or proper ventilation.
7. Buy a 750I, X38 or P34 board. If you have a bit of extra money, then get a X48 or P45.

If you give me your price range, I could make a build for you.

1. I thought DDR3 memory is the best?
2. I wasnt sure I just see a few on Newegg and didnt think it matter which one.

3. What board do you think I should get instead?

6. I didnt really put much thought into a case. I was just thinking something that could hold everything and I guess 2/3 fans.


My budget is no more than $1500, but would love to keep it below $1000.


edit: Oh yea that budget also includes a new mouse/keyboard & maybe a new monitor(I'm currently using a Viewsonic Ultrabrite A90f+ )

 

[Branskins]

Would this case be good enough for the 4870? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...IGNEFL081908-_-ComputerCases-_-L0C-_-11133058

 

[Blackface]

1. I wasnt sure I just see a few on Newegg and didnt think it matter which one.

2. What board do you think I should get instead?

6. I didnt really put much thought into a case. I was just thinking something that could hold everything and I guess 2/3 fans.


My budget is no more than $1500, but would love to keep it below $1000.

Coolermaster 690
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137

Hitatchi Deskstar 320GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145213

Palit 4870X2 2gb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814261025

LiteOn DVD rom
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106262

OCZ GamerXstream 700Watt PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341002

Corsair Dominator 4gb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145214

Asus p5Q Pro, with Crossfire Support,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131299

Intel E8400
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037

$1277. No monitor, mouse or keyboard, but any $10 keyboard works, a $50 Razer Deathadder or MX518 are two top gaming mice.

This is the best computer linked in this thread. It will play every fucking game you throw at it, including Crysis on Very high, and High with AA. It is amazing. I want one. Buy me one.

If you are willing to go more towards 1500 before tax, you could improve it even more, and honestly have one of the top gaming rigs money can buy outside of freaks who are crossfiring $600 graphic cards.

 

[Chiggs]

I still go with the 4870.

I'd probably say the same, but the 512MB could eventually be an issue (remember, he wants to keep this pc for awhile). If he's going to eventually add another 4870, then yes, I completely agree with you. But if he's not, I'd still go 9800GX2.

As far as the min/max fps issue, I think yours is a valid point; the problem is, I've seen different results from different sites. Some show the 200 series doing better than the 4800 and visa versa. I've also seen results with GX2 where it shows it just a hair behind the 200 series.

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14934/1

A shame this review doesn't have the 4870, because it shows that the fluctuating frames aren't really that bad on the GX2. So who to trust? That's the dilemma.

 

[zoku88]

1. I thought DDR3 memory is the best?
2. I wasnt sure I just see a few on Newegg and didnt think it matter which one.

3. What board do you think I should get instead?

6. I didnt really put much thought into a case. I was just thinking something that could hold everything and I guess 2/3 fans.


My budget is no more than $1500, but would love to keep it below $1000.


edit: Oh yea that budget also includes a new mouse/keyboard & maybe a new monitor(I'm currently using a Viewsonic Ultrabrite A90f+ )

1) DDR3 brings minimal performance difference for a much higher price, at least with current hardware.

 

[Branskins]

Tell me about it =/. I guess if the 4870 continues to drop, I could eventually pick up another one. I could even ask for one for Christmas

Also, I hope, as a final question: the q6600 vs the E8500 for the long term (4 years). I know I asked this before, but I am interested in both trax's and chiggs opinion (as well as anyone else)

 

[Chiggs]

Also, I hope, as a final question: the q6600 vs the E8500 for the long term (4 years). I know I asked this before, but I am interested in both trax's and chiggs opinion (as well as anyone else)

To me, there's no question about it: go for the q6600 if you're thinking long term. Plus, you can really OC it.

 

[Blackface]

To me, there's no question about it: go for the q6600 if you're thinking long term. Plus, you can really OC it.

Agree'd especially if he is thinking 4 years.

However be warned, the Q6600 simply won't hold up for 4 years. no CPU will.

Intles new CPU's are around the corner. A year from then the more effecient models with consumer prices will be out and the CPU's of today will be a thing of the past.

 

[Branskins]

Well my Pentium 4 2.8 has lasted me quite a while

So you would recommend the q6600 still?

EDIT: In a few years, I might be able to have a steady income while working at college, so I might be able to update the cpu.

 

[Chiggs]

Well my Pentium 4 2.8 has lasted me quite a while

So you would recommend the q6600 still?

Yes, but you'll probably have to OC it at some point in time. Don't worry, it's easy to do, and since you'll be getting the new revision of that CPU, you should be able to hit really good speeds on air cooling alone.

 

[Branskins]

I love you both haha. Here is my cart so far:

Thermaltake M9 VI1000BWS Black SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI 700W ATX12V Power Supply - Retail
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400C4 - Retail
ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor Model BX80562Q6600 - Retail
COOLER MASTER R4-L2S-122B-GP 120mm 4 BLUE LED LED Case Fan - Retail
XIGMATEK HDT-SD964 92mm Rifle CPU Cooler - Retail
VisionTek 900244 Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail

Total: 953.93
Total with mail in rebates and -20 coupon for case: 818.93

There is 30 dollar shipping though.

Anything I could change to reduce the price?

 

[Blackface]

Good computer.

 

[Epix]

Mail in rebates don't exist.

 

[zoku88]

I would get 4GB of RAM if you can afford it

 

[Chiggs]

VisionTek 900244 Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chris R]

went with the 9550, even though the 9400 would have been fine (plus, UT3 for free would have been SWEET). Don't plan on upgrading anything for atleast 2 years other than throwing in another 4870 at some point down the line, along with maybe 4gb more ram, so I went with the extra cache.

Should be here in two days Going case shopping tonight, but if I can't find anything for a decent price, I'll just reuse my old antec case my "home server" I don't use anymore is sitting in :lol

DVD BURN SAMSUNG|SH-S223F 22X
MS WIN VISTA HM PREM SP1 64BIT 1PK
MEM 2Gx2|OCZ OCZ2P10664GK
CPU INTEL|C2Q Q9550 2.83 775 12M
HD 500G|ST 7K 32M SATA2 ST3500320AS
MB MSI P45 PLATINUM 775
VGA VISIONTEK 900244 HD4870 512M
PSU CORSAIR|CMPSU-750TX 750W
VGA COOLER ARCTIC|ACCELS1 REV 2
VGA FAN AC|TURBO MODULE
CPU COOLER ZEROTHERM|NIRVANA NV120

 

[Branskins]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It isn't final, but all of this EOL stuff has me worried! I googled it and found it on quite a few forums. I guess it kind of makes sense now that nVidia wants to support their 260 and 280.

This has been a huge decision and it isn't even final yet.

I thought I heard 4GB was overkill for games?

 

[Ravager61]

I have a quick question about that Asus P5Q Pro mobo. When you only have 1 PCI-Express slot filled it runs at x16 but when you have 2 cards in the slots for Crossfire they run at x8. Do all Crossfire boards do this? If not, will this hurt performance at all?

 

[Branskins]

I have a feeling it will still run better with 2 cards even though they are running at 8x.

 

[Chiggs]

It isn't final, but all of this EOL stuff has me worried! I googled it and found it on quite a few forums. I guess it kind of makes sense now that nVidia wants to support their 260 and 280.

The 9800GX2 and 4870 are really only about 3-4 months removed from each other. Nvidia is still supporting the 7900 and 8800 series.

 

[Ravager61]

I have a feeling it will still run better with 2 cards even though they are running at 8x.

Im sure it will run better. Im just questioning if there is a performance hit next to boards that stay at x16 for both slots.

 

[Guled]

how is this laptop for gaming?

Gateway M-6864 FX
Intel Core 2 Duo T5750 2.0 GHz
4 GB 667MHz DDR2 RAM
200 GB 7200 RPM HDD
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2600 512 MB GDDR3

I see that people with the same laptop can run crysis on low-med with 20-40 fps, so what do you think the proformence would be for spore, fallout 3, SC2, and D3? I know its just guess work, but could you give me a rough idea?

???

 

[Big Takeover]

Im sure it will run better. Im just questioning if there is a performance hit next to boards that stay at x16 for both slots.

Tweaktown article

 

[Branskins]

The 9800GX2 and 4870 are really only about 3-4 months removed from each other. Nvidia is still supporting the 7900 and 8800 series.

What is my safest bet though? What if they really did drop its support? And what if the 4870 drops to a good price so that I could buy a second one?

 

[zoku88]

You shouldn't think about what ifs so much...

 

[SupraDarky]

Alright I just received my new computer, I'm a big noob with all this. I have a question about the power supply before I install everything. I just opened the case and I think it says 350 W (picture here). Is that enough to support a Ge Force 8800 GT? If not, what power supply would you recommend me getting? It looks pretty hard to replace so hopefully it's enough. :S

 

[MisterAnderson]

Is there a general consensus on if ATI or Nvidia is a better way to go? A lot of people here seem to be getting ATI cards, is there a specific reason?

 

[Ravager61]

Is there a general consensus on if ATI or Nvidia is a better way to go? A lot of people here seem to be getting ATI cards, is there a specific reason?

In terms of bang for buck, ATI often seems to give similar power to Nvidia cards for a cheaper price. Especially for mid-range cards. At least thats what I gathered when I was searching for my new card.

 

[Blackface]

Is there a general consensus on if ATI or Nvidia is a better way to go? A lot of people here seem to be getting ATI cards, is there a specific reason?

4850 is by far the best value for performance out of any card on the market right now.

The 4870 is a beast of a card, that still has not got it's mature drivers yet. So, when it does, it will be even faster. It has extremely high MIN frames. Though cards like the GX2 or GTX280 have higher max frames, 4870 keeps up with Min frames. Min frames are what you get when the action is intense, meaning, during the best parts of games, the 4870 still rocks.

The 4870X2 is hands down, the best graphic card, ever created for PC gaming. It handles anyhting you toss at it, at any resolution, and actually doesn't take hits from turning on AA.

The GTX260, which is Nvidia's new card, is a fantastic card as well. However over all, it gets out performed by the 4870.

The GTX280, Nvidia's new flagship product, is the fastest single GPU card on the market. However, it's very expensive and power hungery. It also gets beat by the 4870X2, and when AA is turned on, there is no compition to the 4870X2.

Both offered solid cards this generation. However the price Vs Performance is better for ATI, and ATI now has the crown of owning the fastest Videocard on the market in the 4870X2.

If Nvidia drops the prices of the 260, and 280, you will see them being sold more.

Nvidia Partners have version of the 260 and 280 overclocked on the market already. The scary part is, ATI doesn't, and I don't really want to think about a properly overclocked 4870x2 with new drivers, because it would be insane.

 

[Azzurri]

I was thinking of upgrading my Motherboard and CPU and upgrade my 8800 GTX VC later. I was thinking of thw Intel P45 Mobo; most likely the Asus PQ5 variant. I was thinking of buying a DDR3 board just to have a more future proof Motherboard, but I'm not sure.

Suggestions?

 

[Branskins]

Trax, do you think the 4870 is a good deal or should I just get a 4850?

 

[zoku88]

Trax, do you think the 4870 is a good deal or should I just get a 4850?

What types of games do you play?

 

[Branskins]

GW and Warcraft III at the moment. But I want to get Spore, COD4, BF2, and I want to try Bioshock. I also hope to use this for SC2 and D3 and GW2.

 

[zoku88]

GW and Warcraft III at the moment. But I want to get Spore, COD4, BF2, and I want to try Bioshock. I also hope to use this for SC2 and D3 and GW2.

GW2 = Guild Wars 2?

I mean, the 4850 would prolly run all of those just fine.

I don't think the 4870 would last that much longer than the 4850, they'd both become 'obsolete' at around the same time/generation, I'd think. (I don't really think neither will actually last 4 years...)

 

[Hazaro]

GW and Warcraft III at the moment. But I want to get Spore, COD4, BF2, and I want to try Bioshock. I also hope to use this for SC2 and D3 and GW2.

That's it?

A 4850 is super overkill then :lol

I mean that in a good way. The performance you can get for $100 or $200 now is crazy.

 

[Blackface]

Trax, do you think the 4870 is a good deal or should I just get a 4850?

The 4850 can play any game on the market today, and any game coming out. The 4850 can also play Crysis on High with no AA (only 1 can play it with AA). I have the 9800GTX, which a few months ago, was the top GPU card on the market. The 4850 is faster then the 9800GTX, and I can play everything maxed out.

The 4850 is the new 8800GT. It's the BEST price/performance card on the market, and nothing is even remotely close.

It is a fantastic card, takes up little power (in comparison), is a single slot, and doesn't get to hot. It's the shit, in otherwords.

 

[Branskins]

Will it still run great at 1680x1050?

 

[Blackface]

Will it still run great at 1680x1050?

yes

 

[Blackface]

On the 4850

So where do I begin with this card? I am left speechless because the HD4850 blew past my expectations! Now, don't get me wrong - I had high hopes for the HD4800 series cards, and strongly wanted them to give Nvidia a run for their money so that the competition stays high, which benefits consumers. However, this review opened my eyes to a new love of ATI products. Being a reviewer, you have to go into a product with an open mind and unbiased opinion, which is what I did - and I was impressed. The HD4850 pushed passed many mainstream cards that are used today, and even kicked on the heels of Nvidia's newest beast, the GTX 280. Ok, so you say it caught up, but didn't take it over - but with a price tag of $199, versus the GTX 280's very high price of $649.99, this is a no-brainier. I mean, you can get three of these cards for the cost of just one GTX 280 and CrossFire them.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/powercolor_hd4850/15.htm