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Official 2011 MLB Thread v.2: The Mets are terrible.

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M

Maxim726X

Member
Knux-Future said:
Not a big baseball guy..but since every other franchise in this city is making moves I'd atleast like to know if the dudes they are getting are good or not.

Is Pence even good?
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Yes, he is. And he's under control for 4 years (I thought it was less). He is having a career year, but he's a very nice player.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
Cosart has the potential to be a lot more than a "decent starter". The numbers haven't matched the raw stuff yet but it's there.

Singleton is 19. 19. By the time Ryan Howard's awful one of the worst of all time extensions is done, he'll be 24 and would have been ready to take over. Or he could have developed into an asset worth more than Hunter Pence.

I'm not bashing the deal for the Phillies. Pence is a good player who will be roughly worth what he will make in arbitration the next 2 seasons. It's a fair trade, better for the Astros though because they get both salary relief and two nice prospects.

Maxim726X said:
Yes, he is. And he's under control for 4 years (I thought it was less). He is having a career year, but he's a very nice player.
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False he's a free agent after the 2013 season. So they have him for approximately 2.5 years.
 
T

The Frankman

Banned
Zep, a master of obfuscatory posts. Keep fucking that chicken.

This trade COULD be better for the Phils, but right now this trade is better for Houston with the potential to be very good for Houston.
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
Maxim726X said:
Yes, he is. And he's under control for 4 years (I thought it was less). He is having a career year, but he's a very nice player.
Click to expand...
he is a FA in 2014 so this year and then two arbitration years probably around 25-30 million in total. The money plus those prospects does not make it a good deal in my opinion.
 
Z

Zep

Banned
eznark said:
two of their top 5 prospects in Cosart and Singleton and Zeid, their 13th best (by Sickels)?

Even if blocked, that's a ton of value for a non-ace
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Did we miss the Zeid's ERA part or do I have bore you(and myself) with his JBLTR+3/2(*5)?

So we gave up Cosart and Singleton...When they signed Lee this winter, you knew this wasn't a time where they would be too worried about players who weren't coming up for a while. I'm sure Pence will be jusst fine hitting behind Victorino, Utley and Howard...Just a hunch though!
 
M

Maxim726X

Member
Windu said:
he is a FA in 2014 so this year and then two arbitration years probably around 25-30 million in total. The money plus those prospects does not make it a good deal in my opinion.
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For some reason I thought he was signed longer than that...

He gives you a little bit of everything- Not a game changer but a solid bat and a solid OFer.

It'll be interesting to see what he gets in arbitration this season.
 
C

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
JABEE said:
I can't believe the Astros are sending money too.
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You are bad at math.

Also, does zep just love everything that the Phillies do? I've never seen him criticize the organization.
 
E

eznark

Banned
Windu said:
he is a FA in 2014 so this year and then two arbitration years probably around 25-30 million in total. The money plus those prospects does not make it a good deal in my opinion.
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Beyond the talent evaluation, I just think it's a foolish move in general. The Phillies are in no danger of missing the playoffs, and one you are in the playoffs it's all about the rotation.

If the Phillies were truly in love with Pence, make the move in the winter meetings where the negotiations are likely to be less frenzied.

I like Pence but this feels reactionary and panicky.
 
Z

Zep

Banned
Windu said:
he is a FA in 2014 so this year and then two arbitration years probably around 25-30 million in total. The money plus those prospects does not make it a good deal in my opinion.
Click to expand...
You signed Dan Uggla for 5yrs.
 
C

CajoleJuice

Member
Quoting Peter Hjort from Capitol Avenue Club on Google+:
Hunter Pence is under team control through the 2013 season as an arbitration-eligible player. He makes a pro-rated portion of $6.9 million for the rest of this year and can expect around $25 million in 2012 and 2013, combined, via arbitration. The Phillies can expect Pence to provide them with around 8 wins above replacement (fangraphs' replacement level) over the life of his contract. At $5 million/win, that's $40 million. Subtract the $27 million Pence will make, and they have a +$13 million asset.

According to +Keith Law's mid-season prospect rankings and the prospect surplus value series at BtB ( http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2010/7/13/1567771/prospect-surplus-value ), the Phillies gave up $55 million worth of prospects. So, unless the Astros are kicking in ~$40 million; the Phillies got fleeced big time.

EDIT: if you use BA's mid-season list, the value drops to $45 million -- http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2011/07/midseason-top-50-prospects-list/
Click to expand...
 
D

Doytch

Member
CajoleJuice said:
Quoting Peter Hjort from Capitol Avenue Club on Google+:
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The whole "crunch the numbers and get an equation" way of evaluating trades doesn't work for contender/seller deals. Flags fly forever, and they have $$$ value for teams that isn't represented when you do a 1 WAR = $4.5m kind-of analysis.

e: That Ichiro-designed t-shirt is just barely better than Braun-designed t-shirts.
 
Duane Cunningham

Duane Cunningham

Member
Goddamn I'm basking in the afterglow of tonight's glorious Royals game. 12-0 victory, Melky hit a grand slam, Billy Butler (suddenly called "Country Breakfast" by everyone on Twitter in a half insulting, half affectionate way) hit two HR's for his fourth HR game in a row, everyone got a hit, Jeff Francis pitched his best game as a Royal with 8 shutout innings, and there was almost a double bench brawl.
 
C

CajoleJuice

Member
Doytch said:
The whole "crunch the numbers and get an equation" way of evaluating trades doesn't work for contender/seller deals. Flags fly forever, and they have $$$ value for teams that isn't represented when you do a 1 WAR = $4.5m kind-of analysis.
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I think that's definitely fair. But the playoffs are pretty much a crapshoot anyway, and it's not like the Phillies aren't going to make it. The thing that correlates most to success in the playoffs is starting pitching, and it's not like they lack that, either. But Pence does help them for the next 2.5 years, and that's pretty much all this team has left in terms of a championship window. The Astros did really well, though.

Edit: I see eznark already said the same thing.
 
T

The Frankman

Banned
CajoleJuice said:
I think that's definitely fair. But the playoffs are pretty much a crapshoot anyway, and it's not like the Phillies aren't going to make it. The thing that correlates most to success in the playoffs is starting pitching, and it's not like they lack that, either. But Pence does help them for the next 2.5 years, and that's pretty much all this team has left in terms of a championship window. The Astros did really well, though.

Edit: I see eznark already said the same thing.
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STOP TALKING ABOUT IT AND ANALYZE THIS ARTICLE ABOUT THE RASMUS TRADE!!!

Scrabble Spells “Fair Deal” for Cards
Zep said:
Calm down, Urkel.
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In the time it took you to post that Ryan Howard was getting closer to being massively overpaid.
 
L

Lambtron

Unconfirmed Member
I'm going out of town this weekend. I hope I'm not reading one of these articles about Bill Smith trading Span for a reliever when I get home.
 
D

Doytch

Member
Fenix said:
Holy fuck JaysTalk callers, stop talking about moving Lawrie back to 2B.
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wat do you expect when that cocksuck jeff blair and damien cox keep blabbing about him playing 2b on PTS? its even more embarrassing when klaw or someone are on. cox was talking to klaw and asking him about "19 year old brendan ryan" last week....ugh.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
Lambtron said:
I'm going out of town this weekend. I hope I'm not reading one of these articles about Bill Smith trading Span for a reliever when I get home.
Click to expand...

I wonder if Bill Smith ever plans on freeing Kevin Slowey. Can easily get back a decent reliever for him instead of trading Span for a middle reliever from the Rockies or whoever.
 
Z

Zep

Banned
The Frankman said:
In the time it took you to post that Ryan Howard was getting closer to being massively overpaid.
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Are you seriously talking shit with Jason Bay catching balls off his chin in LF?!

Anyway, back into retirement I go. I still love all you guys. Even you too virgin-boy.
 
D

Doytch

Member
Macattk15 said:
God damn. Erik getting squeezed like hell.

Ugh. Ruining what little trade value you have one pitch at a time Erik.
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Hey, it ain't easy when you're up against this BAMF.
desmond-jennings.jpg
 
L

Lambtron

Unconfirmed Member
darkside31337 said:
I wonder if Bill Smith ever plans on freeing Kevin Slowey. Can easily get back a decent reliever for him instead of trading Span for a middle reliever from the Rockies or whoever.
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I'd like Slowey to be inserted into the rotation and Nick Blackburn left in Oakland when the team leaves. They should trade Cuddyer. He'll come back next year, and they'll be able to sign him cheaper. Kubel will be a type A by the end of the year I think, and he will likely decline arb.

JABEE said:
Yea, One of the most prolific Homerun hitters In MLB history.
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lol
 
F

Fenix

Member
Doytch said:
wat do you expect when that cocksuck jeff blair and damien cox keep blabbing about him playing 2b on PTS? its even more embarrassing when klaw or someone are on. cox was talking to klaw and asking him about "19 year old brendan ryan" last week....ugh.
Click to expand...
Haven't heard much PTS lately, but as usual, Cox can fuck right off.
 
T

The Frankman

Banned
Zep said:
Are you seriously talking shit with Jason Bay catching balls off his chin in LF?!

Anyway, back into retirement I go. I still love all you guys. Even you too virgin-boy.
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GO BACK TO THE DANK DEPTHS OF YER HOLE, YA FILTHY MCNASTY!
JABEE said:
Yea, One of the most prolific Homerun hitters In MLB history. Uggla, now we're talking overrated. The Howard hate on here is unbelievable.
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... that hole around you appears to be getting larger.
 
C

CajoleJuice

Member
Zep said:
Are you seriously talking shit with Jason Bay catching balls off his chin in LF?!

Anyway, back into retirement I go. I still love all you guys. Even you too virgin-boy.
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See you in October until the Giants beat the Phillies again.

please
 
J

JABEE

Member
eznark said:
Onion post?
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Fastest to 200 and 250. 4 seasons of 45+ HR and 135+ RBIs. Maybe 3 other players in history have done that. Howard got injured last year at the midway point hitting close to 300. This year is a down year for Howard, yet he still leads the league in RBIs.
 
hemtae

hemtae

Member
JABEE said:
Fastest to 200 and 250. 4 seasons of 45+ HR and 135+ RBIs. Maybe 3 other players in history have done that. Howard got injured last year at the midway point hitting close to 300. This year is a down year for Howard, yet he still leads the league in RBIs.
Click to expand...

Didn't we just have this argument this morning?
 
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