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[Jiggy]

Was BK2 That good?

It transcended "That good" and became "That Good." With me at least, it would certainly take precedence over basically everything on the non-Virtual Console side of Wii gameplay-wise.

 

[Golden Darkness]

Uh guys? You people really thing I'd

a) ban people for buying a game I think is crappy

b) hand out tags for people who buy games I like

?


Dudes, I didn't even do that for BKII.

How can anyone tell one way or the other? This is the internet after all.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Come to think of it, if neither Ami nor Dragona like SMRPG, who changed the thread title?
I only ask out of curiosity over what other mod takes interest in sharing our masochism and loathing.

It was me.

That creates a whole nother mystery for you, but that's for another day.

 

[cvxfreak]

Great to see SMRPG on the Euro VC. Now bring it to the North American one! I'll buy it even though I already own it on the Japanese VC.

 

[DDayton]

I seriously NEED to find my review... I reviewed it positively, and am now saying the game doesn't hold up very well.

 

[HUELEN10]

I seriously NEED to find my review... I reviewed it positively, and am now saying the game doesn't hold up very well.

Didn't you post it on one of your mailbags a few years back?

 

[CTLance]

I know you're exaggerating but just get an SD card. A 1GB card is less than $10 these days.

Yeah, I was trying to be facetious, but it's not like I wasn't being truthful either.

I have a 64 MB, 1GB, and 2GB SD card for diving around in Endless Ocean and flying to the moon in Excite Truck. I already backed up all my "completed" saves.
I seriously dislike having to redownload the game in question, but if I have to re-import the savegames on top of that I'll just stop playing the not-installed games altogether. E.g.: I only had to find two more statues in Lost Winds, but now I'll have to download it again after deleting another game and copying over the savegame, thus greatly lessening my likeliness to do so.
It doesn't suit my videogame style either. I usually sit down, decide what to play, and play for 20-30 minutes before real life rears its ugly head and drags me away again. Every second I spend in some menues rearranging my fridge detracts from that time.

This time around I had to delete a painful amount of channels to satiate my lust for StrongBad and SMRPG.
I now have on my Wii: four SNES games (SMW, SMRPG, Zelda3, and BoF2), FFCC: MLAAK, Toki Tori, StrongBad, the Homebrew channel, Opera, the Nintendo-, news and weather channel. I do not think that that is an unreasonable amount of channels. I have pruned all channels that I could, under great emotional distress: Having to delete Super Metroid was really painful.
I have 36 blocks left.
I am seriously pressed for space. I want that storage solution, and I want it yesterday. -month. -year. You get what I'm trying to say.

But whatever. Strongbad is awesome. SMRPG is awesome. I love my Wii right now.

 

[HUELEN10]

I have 36 blocks left.
I am seriously pressed for space. I want that storage solution, and I want it yesterday. -month. -year. You get what I'm trying to say.

BooHoo...

That is me, and has been for some time. I agree though, I want a storage solution and I want it 6 months ago!

 

[Rolf NB]

I guess I did overreact to the negativity surrounding SMRPG a bit, I'm sorry.

My biggest problem with Paper Mario was that I couldn't get over a feeling that the RPG mechanics were dumbed down from SMRPG. Something I just can't put my finger on didn't feel right, and still doesn't. That might be because I like my RPGs as traditional as possible.

It's true that SMRPG is more traditional, but that's kind of a "duh" revelation simply because it is so much older, and the first step along a path that just wasn't known at the time.
I've just picked up Paper Mario again yesterday, and to me the biggest difference is how the combat in Paper Mario feels like solving puzzles, with no influence of stats. You bring the right support character, select the correct moves and do your timing stuff perfectly, and you take no damage. Fighting bob-ombs is a great example: if you stomp or body-slam them, they explode in your face, so you have to use the hammer or the shell toss. You also need to hit them twice each, and they light up after the first hit, triggering a kamikaze move at the end of the round. Hence when they're mixed in with other enemies, you will often have to start out doing nothing with your support character to avoid that.


In PM you also don't really get stronger by leveling up. Your damage output grows only if you find a new weapon, but that's determined by your progress in the story, not by how many goombas you've flattened.

SMRPG just isn't that. Both sides wail on each other and stats always determine who will win. The timing is just a slight boost on top, to keep the player a bit more involved.

It's a plus in my book that Paper Mario (/TTYD/Superstar Saga/Partners In Time) took away most of the incentive to grind levels, but as the more traditional RPG it is (again, duh!), SMRPG is still relatively great.

 

[loosus]

I think if the Wii had just 2 GB of internal storage, that'd take care of 95% of the storage issues. And 2 GB, really, is not very much.

 

[Rolf NB]

I think if the Wii had just 2 GB of internal storage, that'd take care of 95% of the storage issues. And 2 GB, really, is not very much.

They could actually just do a firmware update that integrates the SD slot that every Wii already has into their storage scheme. Say, every channel file, every VC game, every WiiWare game is split up into blocks, and only quarter of the blocks stay in internal memory while the rest of them live on an SD card. The loader, or whatever it is that runs the internally stored channels, would just have to alternate read accesses, and to the running program there wouldn't be any difference.

Actually, that'd be the design that avoids loopholes based around copying whole channel files out of the system for purposes of breaking the encryption and running them as is. If even a decrypted WiiWare game copy was missing 25% of all data, spread wildly throughout the whole file (and every copy on the planet would miss the same parts), you'd have a nice fallback defense against WiiWare piracy for whenever/if the encryption gets broken.

But long story short, none of that would even matter anymore, as Nintendo already allows copying whole files onto SD. It boggles the fucking mind.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Simple, I ban everyone who buys dreck like SMRPG, and give tags out to those who made the intelligent choice of Ys.

What if someone buys both?

EDIT: Oh, someone already said that. D:

Oh well. Looking forward to Ys.

 

[Christopher]

I LOVED Super Mario RPG as a child...that's who the genre is aimed for people who are starting out in RPGs.

Wonderful game.... Square basically gave Nintendo a whole world to use and a very good one at that and Nintendo never even bothered with it.

Some good characters too; Valentina, Booster (who could have been a good Mario character), The Chancelor

 

[Dreamwriter]

Actually, you could use a code to unlock replace the shittastic new CG anime cutscenes with the original anime ones in the PS2 version of Ys VI.

Yeah, but you had to do research to find that, and the game flopped in large part because the default settings were craptacular. It really made no sense to me, they tried to remove all traces of anime-style artwork in the game, at a time when anime was super popular in the US! You woulda thought they would have learned by the huge outcry when they said they were going to re-do all the music.

 

[JohnTinker]

I bet NA gets nothing of any value on Monday. No Ys, no SMRPG, just more filler.

 

[nli10]

I like SMRPG because it was the first RPG where I finished or, at least, reached the ending.

Yay rose-tinted goggles!

I do think the Mario RPG games are a genre with diminishing returns - meaning whichever you played a significant chunk of first will become and stay your favourite. I loved M&L GBA, despised the long walks of pointlessness in TTYD, and am enjoying Paper Mario but have no desire to hurry to finish it.

 

[Aeana]

I bet NA gets nothing of any value on Monday. No Ys, no SMRPG, just more filler.

The chain of believing is only as strong as its weakest link. If we don't get Ys on Monday, I'm coming after you.

 

[Iam Canadian]

I do think the Mario RPG games are a genre with diminishing returns - meaning whichever you played a significant chunk of first will become and stay your favourite. I loved M&L GBA, despised the long walks of pointlessness in TTYD, and am enjoying Paper Mario but have no desire to hurry to finish it.

I'm don't think this is the case, at least not for everyone. The first game in the Mario RPG series that I played was Super Mario RPG, but I still prefer both of the Paper Mario games (yes, even Paper Mario 2 with its backtracking) over it. Though I will admit that the most recent RPG titles, Partners in Time and especially Super Paper Mario were rather disappointing on the whole, particularly Super Paper Mario, which gave new meaning to the word "tedious".

Come to think of it, if neither Ami nor Dragona like SMRPG, who changed the thread title?

In all honesty, though I like Super Mario RPG, I'm not sure it even counts as being a "bone" thrown to Europe seeing as Europe actually has had a relatively decent release schedule recently.

Though I guess "relatively" actually means quite a lot considering we're comparing it to the North American VC release list.

 

[Somnid]

In all honesty, though I like Super Mario RPG, I'm not sure it even counts as being a "bone" thrown to Europe seeing as Europe actually has had a relatively decent release schedule recently.

Though I guess "relatively" actually means quite a lot considering we're comparing it to the North American VC release list.

Actually releases in all regions have been pretty decent as of late. It's back into a more regular rhythm which helps.

 

[Iam Canadian]

Actually releases in all regions have been pretty decent as of late. It's back into a more regular rhythm which helps.

I guess by the standards of the last few months, recent weeks have been a bit of an improvement...but to me, that's just damning with faint praise, and we're still getting good games at a glacially slow pace anyway.

 

[Somnid]

I guess by the standards of the last few months, recent weeks have been a bit of an improvement...but to me, that's just damning with faint praise, and we're still getting good games at a glacially slow pace anyway.

I think it's still because people are looking for something specific. Super Mario RPG is most definately one. Yoshi's Island, Majora's Mask, Earthbound and Shining Force 2 would be the others (or at least those are the most vocal). We've gotten plenty of A to B range stuff in the past few months. List wars is very person specific, but a couple of fan favorites have seen releases recently and this is all we can reasonably hope for in my opinion.

 

[KeeSomething]

I'm not going to allow my e-fury to derail this thread at the absurdity of your post, but you do realize the irony of you acting indignant at my statement when the person who I responded to got what I said for ACTUALLY doing what you're angry for here? He was the one who literally said that he didn't understand why people could prefer Paper Mario to Super Mario RPG. That's the definition of "[not] understanding that some peoples' opinion may differ from his own."

I understand that some people's opinion differ from my own, and that is the reason why I debate these people. Because I have this basic comprehension. So let's get past the stupidity of your non-reading selective outrage and continue onto your criticisms - even though, with respect, you were not the one who I asked to defend it. Because all you did was give this guy an out to nod his head sagely at your post instead of critically arguing his position.

In order to truly debate, you need to back up your points. You just throw out your opinion, with nothing to back it up.

Paper Mario understands something I thought was pretty basic for most people. People do not play Mario games for the personality of Peach and Bowser. No offense to you specifically - though this will be offensively stated - but the only people who could conceivably care about some fleshed out personality of these characters are those who go to comic con and dress up as Tifa Lockheart.

Generalizing a whole group of people who liking developed characters doesn't make your arguement any stronger. It just further justifies
my observation of you as being a hard-headed person.

Who says people don't play the Mario RPGs for its characters? One of the most defining features of the Mario RPGs is its characters, and how well-written they are. You are even using this as means to praise Paper Mario. But when I use this to back up SMRPG, it doesn't count because "no one plays the games for that anyways"? What?

There are so many things wrong with what you just said that I can't possibly point out everything. It doesn't matter because I'm sure other members are rolling their eyes at your post as well.

The reality is Paper Mario takes the core concepts around mascots Mario and Bowser and formulates clever, fourth-wall breaking gags around the absurdity of what they actually do. Mario RPG - while attempting plenty of moments of humour - generally fell apart halfway between trying to dramatize glorified Pinocchio's and introducing villains so lame and uninspired that even Nintendo wishes to forget about it.

Smithy is a lame villain, no doubt, but there is what's this talk about SMRPG being "dramatized"? The game never took itself seriously, like the original Paper Mario. You have absolutely no argument here. The only character that even comes close to crossing the melodramatic line is Mallow, but he is constantly made a joke of.

Oh, and the chemistry between Mario and Bowser was hilarious in Super Mario RPG, like in Paper Mario, but it was even more fun and crazy because they were on the same team. Seeing Bowser cry about losing Peach, and "allowing Mario to join the Koopa Troopa" was brilliant. And while I do find Geno a bit overrated, he was still more interesting than any of the party members in Paper Mario, if you ask me. There is absolutely nothing compelling or fun about the characters in Paper Mario because they didn't interract with each other, and there were no interesting relationships between the party members and other NPCs or the story.

I think this one is extremely easy to understand. Essentially, when people think Mario they think jumping. Conceptually at least Square understood this part. Mechanically, however, it proved they knew shit about actually implementing the feature. It was an awkward and inappropriate approach to one of Mario's critical skills, and it made exploration painful and often times undesirable.

Again, you still don't being up any instances when the jumping is awkward. I don't doubt that you had a hard time with it, but I just don't understand because I never had a problem with it, and I never heard of anyone else that has.

If such a fundamental aspect of Mario gameplay is considered "making mountains out of ant hills", then it's clear we won't agree on much ever. But this is another area where once again Paper Mario without hyperbole blows Mario RPG out of the water.

"Paper Mario blows SMRPG out of the water here!"

"Paper Mario did this right!"

"Jumping was a chore in SMRPG."

Ok, you got the first part down by stating your opinion, but you do nothing to back it up. Bring up examples from the games.

I guess if you're the type of person that feels the rudimentary password hunt that appeared in the Sunken Ship of SMRPG was "thought provoking", then you might also feel the puzzles in Paper Mario are "as basic as you can get." The disparity here is another thing that here that would seem to be impossible to resolve between our positions. Whereas Paper Mario brilliantly utilizes your partners to expand the capabilities and possibilities and variety of puzzles, Mario RPG blithely floats by on generic RPG standbys. Naturally, both games can't completely escape this trap... but only one even tried.

Whatever. Can we atleast agree that Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door had better puzzles than both games?

Besides a plethora of translation issues and typos, in general the translation lacked the punchy cleverness and confident approach to localization which is a Treehouse staple. Super Mario RPG usually attempted to strictly translate things from Japanese, which resulted in tons of contextual and cultural missteps. In Paper Mario, Treehouse obviously feels more comfortable to adapt the language colorfully to its specific region and as a result it feels not only more natural, but far more entertaining.

Three spelling errors? Man, you really are despret to find faults in SMRPG. That qualifies as a "plethora of translations issues" for you?

This goes back to what has already been gone over, so no use elaborating. No account for taste etc etc

Must you continue to show your ego? Seriously, it's not improving your argument at all.

I am sorry you had to remember those. I guess trauma scars more deeply or something.

Wait. What? You don't like comedy? Hmmm... Then how exactly did you enjoy Paper Mario?

I'm not being a jerk, I'm responding precisely with the sort of measured e-disgust one should have when you read something like his post.

Well, I would have liked to debate this whole thing since it makes posting on message boards more fun, but no one can debate with someone who always thinks they're right, and doesn't bother bringing up anything to back up what they say.

Good day, sir.

 

[farnham]

So I got SM RPG

Im amazed how similar it is to the Paper Mario games.. Although PM and PM2 refined the system considerably... Never played it on the SNES so Im glad that i can get it for 9 euros now..

 

[Chris R]

I bet NA gets nothing of any value on Monday. No Ys, no SMRPG, just more filler.

yep, and I'd love smrpg

 

[A Link to the Past]

Well, I would have liked to debate this whole thing since it makes posting on message boards more fun, but no one can debate with someone who always thinks they're right, and doesn't bother bringing up anything to back up what they say.

Um, hi? The vines in the clouds? Easily the worst part of the whole game because of the terrible engine.

 

[JSnake]

Um, hi? The vines in the clouds? Easily the worst part of the whole game because of the terrible engine.

Oh yeah. That was ugh.

 

[KeeSomething]

When SMRPG comes out on the VC, I'm going to spread the word. We gotta send Square a message, and that message is:

IT'S TIME FOR A TRUE SEQUEL!

If Super Mario RPG sells well, it could happen. After all, Square did develope a (crappy) Mario game on the DS a few ears ago. They shouldn't have too much trouble getting the Mario license from Nintendo again.


Sigh... Yes, it's a pipe dream.

 

[Mejilan]

Square has absolutely NO say. And there have already been a few sequels, so nyah! ;p

 

[KeeSomething]

Um, hi? The vines in the clouds? Easily the worst part of the whole game because of the terrible engine.

Aha! Now that's a good example. Yes, I agree that part was a pain, but that's only, what, a whole 1% of the game? Just one or two screens. Still, you can climb and jump the vines fine with a little practice.

 

[loosus]

Square has absolutely NO say. And there have already been a few sequels, so nyah! ;p

Maybe he meant good sequels?

 

[Mejilan]

Maybe he meant good sequels?

Surely no one can be that goofy... ;p

 

[loosus]

Surely no one can be that goofy... ;p

You mean goofy enough to like the existing "sequels"?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Maybe he meant good sequels?

If he meant good sequels, he should have been talking about a good first game.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Surely no one can be that goofy... ;p

You have to remember Mejilan, these people consider the dithered mess of prerendered sprites to be mat00r, and the story to be complex, dark and dramatic.

 

[loosus]

You have to remember Mejilan, these people consider the dithered mess of prerendered sprites to be mat00r, and the story to be complex, dark and dramatic.

Sooo are you saying that you don't have conversations with your friends about the complex and tortured life that Bowser led by being on both sides of the fight?

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Sooo are you saying that you don't have conversations with your friends about the complex and tortured life that Bowser led by being on both sides of the fight?

Best story since the renaissance?

 

[loosus]

None better. Should be required reading in high schools.

 

[Mejilan]

I don't think I've played the game since high school, actually.

 

[KeeSomething]

Maybe he meant good sequels?

Paper Mario, TTYD, and Mario & Luigi were all great sequels. I just would like to see a Square sequel where the SMRPG characters return. It would also be cool to play a fully 3D Mario RPG for once, which is what I'd imagine a Square sequel would be since the original was kinda 3D.

But, I would like to see the Paper Mario series continue too. With that said, Super Paper Mario was a leap in the wrong direction. Replacing fun gameplay with chores is not my idea of a good game... which was all SPM was to me.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

When SMRPG comes out on the VC, I'm going to spread the word. We gotta send Square a message, and that message is:

IT'S TIME FOR A TRUE SEQUEL!

If Super Mario RPG sells well, it could happen. After all, Square did develope a (crappy) Mario game on the DS a few ears ago. They shouldn't have too much trouble getting the Mario license from Nintendo again.

Then Square could farm it out to Alpha Dream to put it in the hands of the original directors.

 

[xs_mini_neo]

Super Mario RPG was the closest a Mario RPG came to being on par with Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, and Final Fantasy......

Spoiler

.V.

.

I know some people have a hate-on for it since it used "ugly" 16-bit pre-rendered graphics, but it was still a good game underneath...and I never thought I'd be defending SMRPG. I didn't like it as much back when it first released, but now I appreciate what it did right. Of course seeing PM not doing anything special despite sequel after sequel may have played a role in my late appreciation. I want a real Mario RPG, not this Crystal Chronicles/FF:MQ spin-off-like gimmicky Paper style. Is that so much to ask? Btw, pre-rendered =/= paper. You know it's true.

The Mario & Luigi series should have been in PM's place from the start. Let the PM series be on the DS instead.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Super Mario RPG was the closest a Mario RPG came to being on par with Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, and Final Fantasy......

Spoiler

.V.

.

I know some people have a hate-on for it since it used "ugly" 16-bit pre-rendered graphics, but it was still a good game underneath...and I never thought I'd be defending SMRPG. I didn't like it as much back when it first released, but now I appreciate what it did right. Of course seeing PM not doing anything special despite sequel after sequel may have played a role in my late appreciation. I want a real Mario RPG, not this Crystal Chronicles/FF:MQ spin-off-like gimmicky Paper style. Is that so much to ask? Btw, pre-rendered =/= paper. You know it's true.

The Mario & Luigi series should have been in PM's place from the start. Let the PM series be on the DS instead.

So why don't you ask them to make a game that SHOULD be like FFV? Maybe, JUST maybe, it should have been like Mario, instead of Super Final Fantasy RPG?

And wow, so basically, you defend SMRPG and attack PM for doing nothing special? Yeah, I guess being better than SMRPG in every respect and being unique rather than Final Fantasy: Mario Edition isn't anything special. I guess SMRPG doing timed hits and that pretty much being the only good innovation it made is so special, even though Paper Mario took the gameplay and made it significantly better and more refined.

 

[Wizpig]

How can some people think that SMRPG is superior to Paper Mario [N64], Mario & Luigi and ESPECIALLY Paper Mario 2?
It blows my mind, maybe it's nostalgia...
Paper Mario 2 > Paper Mario 1 > Mario & Luigi > SMRPG > Mario & Luigi DS
And that's it, you could change the first 3 games, but they are all better than SMRPG.

It's like saying that Metal Gear on the MSX is better than Metal Gear Solid on PS1... or, to make a better comparison, it's like saying Final Fantasy 1 is better than Final Fantasy 6.
Sure, there are people who will say this, but... i don't know why they would.

Mario RPG is an awesome game and we all should be thankful that Square made it, since all the other Mario RPG games took a lot from it.
But that's it, sorry.

 

[Deadly Monk]

SMRPG!SMRPG!SMRPG!

Spoiler

Y's is better. I really hope it comes tomorrow : (

 

[ivysaur12]

Paper Mario 2 > Paper Mario 1 > Mario & Luigi > SMRPG > Mario & Luigi DS

You're just so right.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

YS YS YS YS

PLZ.

I don't really give a shit about SMRPG, just gimme the Ys, please.

 

[the year 20XX]

When SMRPG comes out on the VC, I'm going to spread the word. We gotta send Square a message, and that message is:

IT'S TIME FOR A TRUE SEQUEL!

If Super Mario RPG sells well, it could happen. After all, Square did develope a (crappy) Mario game on the DS a few ears ago. They shouldn't have too much trouble getting the Mario license from Nintendo again.


Sigh... Yes, it's a pipe dream.

This happens every time. As soon as something we want comes out on VC, the Nintendo community immediately moves on to screaming about a new game. MARIO 3 NOW OR DIE NINTENDO, SUPER METROID NOW!!!! SMRPG NOW!!!!!! etc. Can't we have a break before we start getting indignant about something that absolutely isn't happening? There's still Earthbound to whine about.

 

[Cheesemeister]

Can't we have a break before we start getting indignant about something that absolutely isn't happening?

Bionic Commando. Where's the outrage?

 

[evilromero]

I love love LOVED Mario RPG when it came out and I also loved the hell out of Paper Mario. I think Mario RPG was the only RPG besides Earthbound and Pokemon I ever finished.

 

[Haunted]

Bionic Commando. Where's the outrage?

If I'm playing the superior-in-every-way remake right now, why should I play the original?

For perspective? Hardly reason enough to be outraged for me.