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[Keyser Soze]

I just caught up with this mess. Jesus, could Ferrari be any more stupid. It is like me going on GAF and saying GUYZ GIMME THE PIRATE GAMES. I WONT PAY FOR THIS SHIT ANYMORE

Spoiler

Can you confirm you understood that message guys?

 

[Yen]

I hope they get a race ban for this, didn't like any of the reasoning given by Ferrari.

 

[Road]

All the people blabbering about how fixing the results is part of F1 should marry all those who say how referee mistakes are part of football.


Also, I love all the playing the victim card act when you don't have any more arguments (this goes for Alonso and Hamilton fans).

 

[darkwing]

so this is bad news for Ferrari?

 

[itsgreen]

so this is bad news for Ferrari?

Very.

Also

Jon Noble @NobleF1

"Ferrari has ruled out appealing the $100,000 fine it got for imposing team orders in the German GP "

 

[darkwing]

ouch, what is the worst that could happen?

 

[Lince]

I just caught up with this mess. Jesus, could Ferrari be any more stupid. It is like me going on GAF and saying GUYZ GIMME THE PIRATE GAMES. I WONT PAY FOR THIS SHIT ANYMORE

Spoiler

Can you confirm you understood that message guys?

:lol :lol :lol

I guess Rob Smedley helped a lot, maybe he wasn't happy at all with the decision, "Alonso is faster. We confirm that you understand the message" can you make it more obvious for the FIA that it's a coded message? noobs!

*Massa lets Alonso by without locking a tire, running wide or whatever*

and then Rob comes again on the radio "Thanks mate, Sorry".

.....
could you be more inept?

 

[itsgreen]

ouch, what is the worst that could happen?

Realistically, no points for this race in the team championship, plus a LARGE fine...

But they could also order bans for a full year...

 

[avaya]

But they could also order bans for a full year...

This will never happen.

 

[anonnumber6]

so this is bad news for Ferrari?

The stewards have referred the incident to the WMSC, which really means the stewards don't really know what to do and are going to let the WMSC decide. Breaking rule 151c is the biggest worry because the WMSC were the council that fined Mclaren $100m and threw them our of the constructors championship for this rule, they also have the power to amend this race result for up to a year.

Ferrari have deep enough pockets to have as many legal advisers and put a strong defence up against this case but Ferrari have been lobbying the FIA for years to stop homologation, spending caps and new team entering. But by breaking 151c the FIA have Ferrari in the palm of their hands.

This will never happen.

Yeah everyone should remember Ferrari are the biggest team in F1 and have a huge influence on it, if Ferrari are banned for a year you can bet team like Mclaren, Red Bull, Mercedes etc. will join Ferrari to make a new series

 

[darkwing]

so $100M fine and out of the constructor's championships?

 

[Yen]

:lol :lol :lol

I guess Rob Smedley helped a lot, maybe he wasn't happy at all with the decision, "Alonso is faster. We confirm that you understand the message" can you make it more obvious for the FIA that it's a coded message? noobs!

*Massa lets Alonso by without locking a tire, running wide or whatever*

and then Rob comes again on the radio "Thanks mate, Sorry".

.....
could you be more inept?

"Felipe, the brown fox needs to jump over the lazy dog."

I'd say at most it's a disqualification for this race and out of contructors. But I doubt anything serious would happen.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Don't want to get my hopes up for a Domenicali suspension from WMSC but odds looking good.

FIA will finally have Ferrari by its balls which they have been trying to do since the whole Mosley drama, but that's what you get when you are stupid enough to play the team orders card but forgot to cast the sleaky spell beforehand.

 

[megateto]

Full post-race press conference.

And thanks avaya and anonnumber6 for clarifications on the implications of breaking rule 151c.

Between this incident and the mess of Alonso's radio comunications last race, I don't really get what's going on with Domenicali (or even if he's the one to blame for this shitfest).

 

[Massa]

"Felipe, the brown fox needs to jump over the lazy dog."

I'd say at most it's a disqualification for this race and out of contructors. But I doubt anything serious would happen.

I feel the same, but we can hope.

 

[anonnumber6]

so $100M fine and out of the constructor's championships?

I would be surprised if it were that severe, Mclaren's fine was $100m because they did cheat.

I'm guessing the Constructor's Championship points for this race will be taken off but the race result will stand. Obviously Ferrari will give the FIA more compliance with whatever changes the FIA wants to make which is a large price to pay for Ferrari.

 

[thechemist]

F**K ferrari and F**K Alonso, I was their biggest fan, and to screw Massa 1 year after his accident, bloody stupid and I hope they get f**ked.

Also Alonso is the biggest cry baby, race manliputed in Valencia, and now this what a hypocrite.

So happy that Smedley and Massa made it so obvious.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Full post-race press conference.

And thanks avaya and anonnumber6 for clarifications on the implications of breaking rule 151c.

Between this incident and the mess of Alonso's radio comunications last race, I don't really get what's going on with Domenicali (or even if he's the one to blame for this shitfest).

I'd quote the good questions, but there are too many. All the questions from the floor were direct and to the point. No bullshit-taking here. Wow! I don't remember the press pouncing on Schuey like that. Brutal. :lol PEACE.

 

[kikanny]

I'd quote the good questions, but there are too many. All the questions from the floor were direct and to the point. No bullshit-taking here. Wow! I don't remember the press pouncing on Schuey like that. Brutal. :lol PEACE.

These are my favorite ones.

Q. (Ian Gordon – News of the World) Fernando, you said after Valencia that the race had been manipulated in favour of Lewis. Those words seem a bit hollow now. Where will this victory rank in your career, is it up there with Singapore 2008?

FA: I think you have a very strong result from Ferrari today, one and two, a very strong performance all weekend and if the final thought of the weekend is your question it's because maybe you didn't see the whole practice, qualifying and the race, so maybe it's too early for you that Ferrari came back so strong.

Q. (Ian Gordon – News of the World) Team orders are banned in Formula One. They were banned in 2002, that was blatant team orders.

FA: Sure.

Q. (Ian Gordon – News of the World) Eddie Jordan just said that you two should be kicked out of the race.

FA: Again, if this is the final thought of the weekend for you, I think it is because you didn't see the performance of the team and the performance from our car this weekend.

Q. (Byron Young – The Daily Mirror) The reality is, though, that you couldn't beat him on the track, so you had to get the team to do it for you.

FA: If that's your opinion.

Q. (Byron Young – The Daily Mirror) I'm asking you, is that not your opinion?

FA: No.

Q. (Byron Young – The Daily Mirror) He had to give you this win, didn't he, Fernando?

FA: No.

Q. (Ian Parkes – The Press Association) Fernando, you've said that you're happy with this win but to be honest, I've never seen a driver look less happy in the middle of a podium there today, and in the middle of this press conference here. Why can't you just be honest with us for once, and just admit that this win was handed to you on a plate today?

FA: Hopefully the next question is for Sebastian. No, stay, stay. As I said, I think we were competitive on Friday, I was very competitive on Friday, first position. Finishing second in qualifying by 12 centimeters, I heard yesterday and today I think we scored the fastest lap of the race, so overall I don't think I was very slow this weekend.

Q. (Ted Kravitz – BBC Sport) Fernando, after the pit stop, when you were behind Felipe, we heard a radio message, it wasn't very clear, but it sounded like you were telling the team guys 'think of the victory.' Did you say that?

FA: No.

 

[anonnumber6]

Ugh not surprised at the manner of questions from the News of the World and Daily Mirror.

 

[Igo]

I would be surprised if it were that severe, Mclaren's fine was $100m because they did cheat.

I'm guessing the Constructor's Championship points for this race will be taken off but the race result will stand. Obviously Ferrari will give the FIA more compliance with whatever changes the FIA wants to make which is a large price to pay for Ferrari.

Renault and some other team were caught with the same offense and received no punishment, but that's another story.

I think the right move here is a fine in the millions and to disqualify Massa from the race. It's obvious to everyone what happened but Ferrari didn't actually tell Massa to let Alonso past. What did happen and what Massa admitted is that after some 30 laps of keeping his tm behind, he up and decided to concede his position and the lead of the race to Alonso. No mistake, nothing wrong with his car, just race manipulation.

It's really unfortunate, especially for Massa, but I can't think of any other reasonable way to punish Ferrari. Just way too blatant to let slide.

 

[kikanny]

Renault and some other team were caught with the same offense and received no punishment, but that's another story.

I think the right move here is a fine in the millions and to disqualify Massa from the race. It's obvious to everyone what happened but Ferrari didn't actually tell Massa to let Alonso past. What did happen and what Massa admitted is that after some 30 laps of keeping his tm behind, he up and decided to concede his position and the lead of the race to Alonso. No mistake, nothing wrong with his car, just race manipulation.

It's really unfortunate, especially for Massa, but I can't think of any other reasonable way to punish Ferrari. Just way too blatant to let slide.

Wait....your solution is to disqualify Massa? Wow.

 

[Massa]

Ugh not surprised at the manner of questions from the News of the World and Daily Mirror.

Not all media outlets can be as fair and objective as the Diario AS.

Q. (Carlos Miquel – Diario AS) Fernando, do you feel that some people are worrying because you are back in the championship?

FA: Maybe it seems like this, yes.

 

[Igo]

Wait....your solution is to disqualify Massa? Wow.

What better deterrent is there in situations like this? If the telemetry can prove a driver purposefully conceded their position to manipulate the race then they should be dq'ed. Drivers other than Piquet wouldn't been too keen on accepting team orders if there's a chance they could be disqualified.

Teams would get around it quite easily by just telling their drivers to switch to different fuel mixtures or something, but at least we wouldn't see drivers lifting off and driving down straights at 50% throttle to concede positions anymore.

 

[Massa]

Ferrari has been fined 65,000 pounds. Weak.

That's the maximum fine the stewards can apply, hopefully they'll get a bigger one from the WMSC.

 

[iapetus]

I propose this equitable solution: Massa should receive the full points for first place. Alonso should also receive the full points for first place. Hamilton should be stripped of all his points for the year.

 

[StoOgE]

Wait....your solution is to disqualify Massa? Wow.

As "unfair" as it feels, if there were team orders they were received by Massa and he followed them.

 

[AndyD]

I propose this equitable solution: Massa should receive the full points for first place. Alonso should also receive the full points for first place. Hamilton should be stripped of all his points for the year.

:lol :lol

In all seriousness this was pretty blatant. And Massa in the interview looked so angry. I thought he would punch Alonso.

Its one thing to do what some team did last year, fake a car issue and do a drive through to "check it out". The thing here is they could lose no time and also did not want to risk the two taking each other out. So it was so obvious even a blind man could see it. And he lifted on a straight piece, so the telemetry will be so obvious to the WSMC. Not even an over/under pass or anything subtle.

Sad if nothing beyond the minor fine happens to them. I think a ban would be harsh, but stripping the team and drivers of points for this race seems reasonable.

I know some say we should allow team orders, but until that is officially allowed, they need to enforce the current rules, and stifly so.

 

[iapetus]

It's really unfortunate, especially for Massa, but I can't think of any other reasonable way to punish Ferrari. Just way too blatant to let slide.

You can't do that without penalising Alonso as well, because getting Alonso first place was what they did this for.

 

[AndyD]

You can't do that without penalising Alonso as well, because getting Alonso first place was what they did this for.

Right. You punish both drivers and the team. Strip everyone of all points. It is most unfair to Alonso, but that should teach the team a lesson.

And I wonder what was said to Alonso over the radio leading up to it. We heard him say he was frustrated with slow Massa, but nothing for about 10 laps afterwards before the pass.

 

[Harry_Tequila]

Ugh not surprised at the manner of questions from the News of the World and Daily Mirror.

For probably the first time I'm actually proud of them. The only ones actually asking the questions that need to be asked. Rather that than be like that guy from Diario AS, who is obviously not a journalist.

 

[iapetus]

Right. You punish both drivers and the team. Strip everyone of all points. It is most unfair to Alonso, but that should teach the team a lesson.

It's most unfair to Massa in my opinion. Forced by his team to throw the race and then penalised again. Much as I'd like to see Alonso punished as harshly as possible, how about simply reinstating the drivers' points to where they should be (Massa #1, Alonso #2) and harshly penalising the constructor?

 

[Goldrusher]

That's what I'm hoping for as well.

Give the win to Massa, disqualify Alonso from this race and no constructor points for Ferrari what-so-ever.

Anything more is tricky, as it would hurt Massa again. Perhaps they can disqualify Alonso for a few races, if not the remainder of the season.

 

[anonnumber6]

For probably the first time I'm actually proud of them. The only ones actually asking the questions that need to be asked. Rather that than be like that guy from Diario AS, who is obviously not a journalist.

I think it was quite disrespectful to the person who is the second most successful driver on the grid. Most tabloids in Britain have always been anti-Ferrari and anti-Alonso, at least show some respect like Ted Kravitz did.

But the question from Diario AS was quite funny

That's what I'm hoping for as well.

Give the win to Massa, disqualify Alonso from this race and no constructor points for Ferrari what-so-ever.

Anything more is tricky, as it would hurt Massa again. Perhaps they can disqualify Alonso for a few races, if not the remainder of the season.

You can't punish Alonso for a team decision, if the team decided to give the position to Massa then the team has to be punished, this is a team incident not a driver one.

 

[avaya]

Renault and some other team were caught with the same offense and received no punishment, but that's another story.

I think the right move here is a fine in the millions and to disqualify Massa from the race. It's obvious to everyone what happened but Ferrari didn't actually tell Massa to let Alonso past. What did happen and what Massa admitted is that after some 30 laps of keeping his tm behind, he up and decided to concede his position and the lead of the race to Alonso. No mistake, nothing wrong with his car, just race manipulation.

It's really unfortunate, especially for Massa, but I can't think of any other reasonable way to punish Ferrari. Just way too blatant to let slide.

Oh please. No one did anything CLOSE to what McLaren got away with. They stole the entire specification for the car from the ground up, including team tactics and planning for the current season and the next year. They knew everything. The management from top to bottom knew about it. Their drivers knew about it and both of them lied about it. The faked a forensic investigation and tried to whitewash the whole incident. They tried to con Todt and Jean absolutely FUCKED them for it. He finished Ron Dennis' career with that.

It was an absolute disgrace, industrial espionage at it's finest. Renault did not do a "similar thing".

 

[kitch9]

I think it was quite disrespectful to the person who is the second most successful driver on the grid. Most tabloids in Britain have always been anti-Ferrari and anti-Alonso, at least show some respect like Ted Kravitz did.

But the question from Diario AS was quite funny



You can't punish Alonso for a team decision, if the team decided to give the position to Massa then the team has to be punished, this is a team incident not a driver one.

He broke the rules and fucking cheated. What do you want them to do, tickle his balls whilst whistling dixie at him?

 

[avaya]

You can't punish Alonso for a team decision, if the team decided to give the position to Massa then the team has to be punished, this is a team incident not a driver one.

Well Ferrari moved Fernando ahead to get the result they wanted for the WDC. Removing their WCC points for doing that doesn't make much sense if you leave the WDC side alone. They are not separate. The team as a whole has to be DSQ'ed from this race result.

 

[anonnumber6]

He broke the rules and fucking cheated. What do you want them to do, tickle his balls whilst whistling dixie at him?

He did not personally break the rules, the team did. If they wanted to insult or undermine someone they should've talked to Stefano Domenicali.

Well Ferrari moved Fernando ahead to get the result they wanted for the WDC. Removing their WCC points for doing that doesn't make much sense if you leave the WDC side alone. They are not separate. The team as a whole has to be DSQ'ed from this race result.

Yes they gained an advantage for the WDC but you cannot punish both drivers for what was a decision made by the team and not the drivers. To punish the team you must take off the WCC points.

 

[Igo]

Oh please. No one did anything CLOSE to what McLaren got away with. They stole the entire specification for the car from the ground up, including team tactics and planning for the current season and the next year. They knew everything. The management from top to bottom knew about it. Their drivers knew about it and both of them lied about it. The faked a forensic investigation and tried to whitewash the whole incident. They tried to con Todt and Jean absolutely FUCKED them for it. He finished Ron Dennis' career with that.

It was an absolute disgrace, industrial espionage at it's finest. Renault did not do a "similar thing".

Renault had McLaren's entire dossier also, if i'm remembering correctly, but there was no investigation. Probably because had they found anything Renault would not have survived the punishment. They're barely still around as is.

There was also a similar situation with another team but i'm not sure what that was about. I think it may have been Honda.

And i'm of the opinion that if what McLaren did warranted expulsion from the sport then that's what should have happened, not the ridiculous fine. At least the full truth would have been revealed in that event.

 

[avaya]

s they gained an advantage for the WDC but you cannot punish both drivers for what was a decision made by the team and not the drivers. To punish the team you must take off the WCC points.

Disagree completely. The team also cares about the WDC, sometimes more so. So punishing them in that is required. Further to that the drivers can't claim a "just following orders" excuse, that doesn't hold water.

Renault had McLaren's entire dossier also, if i'm remembering correctly, but there was no investigation. Probably because had they found anything Renault would not have survived the punishment. They're barely still around as is.

There was also a similar situation with another team but i'm not sure what that was about. I think it may have been Honda.

And i'm of the opinion that if what McLaren did warranted expulsion from the sport then that's what should have happened, not the ridiculous fine. At least the full truth would have been revealed in that event.

Renault did not have the same level of data and active supply line of data. McLaren knew the current years car, the next seasons project, the development pipeline, the team strategy and much much more. Then they lied about it. From top to bottom, then tried to whitewash it in the first FIA investigation - which is what cost them big.

Other team was Toyota and all they had was a data disc of the F2002 which was a season old.

McLaren absolutely warranted exclusion, in fact that was the original leaked punishment before commercial interests got in the way.

 

[Pimpwerx]

I agree, you can't just dole out blanket punishments. It should punish the team, but you can't punish the drivers, not even Alonso, for following orders. It doesn't matter if one may have been done at request. I think it would undermine the team nature of this sport.

It's a delicate situation, the punishments. I don't know how to go about it. This is a situation a lot of us predicted would happen, but didn't expect to take a decade to surface. What do you do when this silly rule is finally broken in a blatant manner? I guess we got our answer. A monetary fine is not enough. It's up to the WMSC to either impose a deterring penalty, or maybe just come out and tell people the rule will be repealed at the end of the season.

If all teams have to do is pay a fine when they issue team orders, then there's really no teeth in the rule. Not that there were any to begin with, but I digress. PEACE.

 

[Lince]

He had to give you this win, didn't he, Fernando?

oh the British manners... what a shameful and disgraceful bunch of journalists there in the press conference, total lack of respect, those journos were thinking Alonso planned everything and issued the team orders, everything happened in the pit wall and questions should be aimed there not to Alonso, I posted a lot of team-orders examples in the past and none of them was treated like this one, ah the bias... and the bitter tears.

 

[John_B]

Alonso is an amazing race driver, but what a whiny little man.

This season he has been constantly waving his hand at every little upset on the track. Literally crying like a toddler over the radio at several races. He is like a spoiled child that will do anything and annoy everyone until he gets what he wants.

In 2007 he had one long season of whining because he was getting beaten by a rookie. In Indianapolis he actually radioed the team and told them to tell Hamilton to let him pass, which I kinda think they tried to, but Hamilton didn't care.

Alonso was upset he was not getting a royal treatment at McLaren (even though in the beginning he was treated as the number uno driver), so he tried to blackmail Ron Dennis with some e-mails, but it backfired because Ron Dennis called up Max Mosley and it all ended badly (though not that bad all things considered) for McLaren.

In 2008 he was more than keen to fix a race result for his own glory.

Today he had absolutely no problem with whining for team orders to be delivered.

I will smile so wide the day I see gigantic tears emerging from the eyes of Alonso as he witnesses Hamilton take his 3rd WDC while being stuck on his 2nd.

 

[Harry_Tequila]

oh the British manners... what a shameful and disgraceful bunch of journalists there in the press conference, total lack of respect, those journos were thinking Alonso planned everything and issued the team orders, everything happened in the pit wall and questions should be aimed there not to Alonso, I posted a lot of team-orders examples in the past and none of them was treated like this one, ah the bias... and the bitter tears.

Let me guess... you read Diario AS?

 

[kitch9]

oh the British manners... what a shameful and disgraceful bunch of journalists there in the press conference, total lack of respect, those journos were thinking Alonso planned everything and issued the team orders, everything happened in the pit wall and questions should be aimed there not to Alonso, I posted a lot of team-orders examples in the past and none of them was treated like this one, ah the bias... and the bitter tears.

..............Fucking................LOL! :lol

 

[duckroll]

He did not personally break the rules, the team did. If they wanted to insult or undermine someone they should've talked to Stefano Domenicali.

Considering we're talking about "team orders" here, there's no way he can break the rule alone obviously. That doesn't mean that the team orders were not given because he kept complaining that he was faster than Massa, implying to the team at least twice during the race that they should tell Massa to let him pass. He was getting more and more frustrated on track because he couldn't pass Massa, and he was being the whiner he is.

It seems that since his glory days in the Renault of years past, Alonso has forgotten how to be a real winner, and has turned into a complaining cocksucker who will happily whine and cheat and do anything to be favored by the team he's in. It's disgusting to see him turn out this way, because he was once a great man. I think being Hamilton's teammate basically destroyed him.

 

[Lince]

Let me guess... you read Diario AS?

I don't read sport newspapers, a bunch of millionaires riding bikes, driving super cars or playing with a ball, I waste too much time already watching them on TV doing their "show".

 

[Lince]

I think being Hamilton's teammate basically destroyed him.

he's still winning races, pushing the cars to their limits and destroying his team-mates, Hamilton on the other hand choked on the first lap of Brazil 2007 and shortly after with the rev limit button :lol

and don't forget Whitmarsh "we were racing Fernando" comments, now, a whole British team against you and you end the season on the same points as their Golden Boy, that's kind of an achievement there... if only TEAM ORDERS that day in Brazil 2007 had not favored Raikkonen...

 

[Dilly]

he's still winning races, pushing the cars to their limits and destroying his team-mates, Hamilton on the other hand choked on the first lap of Brazil 2007 and shortly after with the rev limit button :lol

and don't forget Whitmarsh "we were racing Fernando" comments, now, a whole British team against you and you end the season on the same points as their Golden Boy, that's kind of an achievement there... if only TEAM ORDERS that day in Brazil 2007 had not favored Raikkonen...

This is what nationalism does to people kids!

 

[Mad_Ban]

he's still winning races, pushing the cars to their limits and destroying his team-mates, Hamilton on the other hand choked on the first lap of Brazil 2007 and shortly after with the rev limit button :lol

and don't forget Whitmarsh "we were racing Fernando" comments, now, a whole British team against you and you end the season on the same points as their Golden Boy, that's kind of an achievement there... if only TEAM ORDERS that day in Brazil 2007 had not favored Raikkonen...

I thought people knew by now that it never happened. :lol