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[anonnumber6]

It's a commercial sport that needs an audience in order to have sponsors in order to exist.

The rule is clear whether you like it or agree with it doesn't really change that.

Well you can ay every sport is a commercial sport today but you would still say football, cricket and rugby is a team sport.

Anyway even if we do consider Formula One not as a team sport but as a commercial sport, you would then have to say Ferrari as a team are the biggest entity in Formula One they are the team that has a huge following and they have that following because they win championships and they win championships partly because they can make ruthless decisions like today's events.

 

[Harry_Tequila]

Oh Ferrari. :lol

Can't be trusted to complete a simple task without totally fucking it up these days.

 

[seattle6418]

As they should, people should not be questioning Ferrari but asking why team orders are not allowed.

They are a legitimate part of Formula One and should be made legal.

Yes, fixing results and making fans look like clowns for watching it was a part of F1.

And that was wrong, so they invented a rule to try to prevent that.

How hard it is to understand that they couldn't have done what they did?

So now Ferrari gets a free pass to break the rules just because they're Ferrari?

I already know the answer, but i hope i'm wrong.

 

[Lince]

I like this post somewhere else in the Web

The hypocrisy from so many people is just amazing, they act as if this is the first time since 2002 a team has used team orders.

Kimi won the 2007 WDC because of team orders when Massa let him past from leading the race.

Kimi let Massa past in china 08.

Hamilton won this very race 2 years ago because of team orders when heikki let him past.

There is no difference in any of these examples, so this outcry is just an example of irrational hatred for Alonso, or people with short memories. get over it, because massa is not a title contender because he is way off the pace in qualifying and will just ruin ferrari's year.

the part about Kimi in 2007... had Massa (again) not let Kimi past then Alonso would have been the 2007 WDC, I say let's all be honest and if the stewards punish Ferrari for today's shenanigans they shall as well revisit Brazil 2007 and hand the WDC back to Alonso.

 

[Massa]

I like this post somewhere else in the Web



the part about Kimi in 2007... had Massa (again) not let Kimi past then Alonso would have been the 2007 WDC, I say let's all be honest and if the stewards punish Ferrari for today's shenanigans they shall as well revisit Brazil 2007 and hand the WDC back to Alonso.

Team orders are forbidden, there were no team orders in 2007.

Besides, "that was wrong too!" is a terrible way to support your argument. Your idol "fixed" his way into another win today, just accept it.

 

[avaya]

Team orders are forbidden, there were no team orders in 2007.

Oh there were. Just that Lewis and Alonso refused to follow them.

 

[Timbuktu]

But it is a a team sport, many people care about Ferrari as a team and a lot of Ferrari fans couldn't care less if it is Alonso or Massa with more points. In a team sport the people working for the team must work for what is best for the team and team orders should be allowed in a team sport.

I am not saying it's ferrari's problem but the FIA's, in terms of how the sport is perceived in general. I can understand if people don't get f1 as a team sport because it is very often not sold as one.

 

[Juicy Bob]

the part about Kimi in 2007... had Massa (again) not let Kimi past then Alonso would have been the 2007 WDC, I say let's all be honest and if the stewards punish Ferrari for today's shenanigans they shall as well revisit Brazil 2007 and hand the WDC back to Alonso.

The team orders from Brazil 2007 and China 2008 are perfectly understandable and justifiable from a championship point of view.

Austria 2002 and today are not even close to being anywhere near the same scenario as Brazil 07 and China 08 in terms of the championship situation. Add to this the fact that in both of these races a highly likeable Number 2 driver was forced to give up a rare win despite being ahead of his team mate on merit during a race and you must surely understand why everyone's so pissed off about this?

 

[seattle6418]

I like this post somewhere else in the Web



the part about Kimi in 2007... had Massa (again) not let Kimi past then Alonso would have been the 2007 WDC, I say let's all be honest and if the stewards punish Ferrari for today's shenanigans they shall as well revisit Brazil 2007 and hand the WDC back to Alonso.

No i think the people with short memory are the ones giving those examples. It was bad in 2007, 2008 or whenever that happened. It's not bad because it was today, it's ALWAYS bad.

Maybe the only way to solve this is to have two separate teams inside a team and scrapping the constructors champioship, like Nascar or Indy. I can't think of any other solution because teams will always come up with a way to screw us over and fix things. Some teams do it in a subtle way, not like the BS Ferrari does. (today, 2007 with Kimi, 2002 with Schummy, etc...).

 

[anonnumber6]

Yes, fixing results and making fans look like clowns for watching it was a part of F1.

And that was wrong, so they invented a rule to try to prevent that.

How hard it is to understand that they couldn't have done what they did?

So now Ferrari gets a free pass to break the rules just because they're Ferrari?

I already know the answer, but i hope i'm wrong.

Austria 2002 was an anomaly, it was just a strange decision by Ferrari and was not necessary. Today is different, Ferrari needed a win and they needed Alonso to win for them to be back in the fight for the Driver's championship. Team orders have are part of F1 and are just another way teams can get the best out of what they have for the season.

I like this post somewhere else in the Web



the part about Kimi in 2007... had Massa (again) not let Kimi past then Alonso would have been the 2007 WDC, I say let's all be honest and if the stewards punish Ferrari for today's shenanigans they shall as well revisit Brazil 2007 and hand the WDC back to Alonso.

I'm glad you posted that because I was sure Hamilton won partly because of team orders 2 years ago as well but I wasn't 100% certain.

 

[Harry_Tequila]

NobleF1 - Ferrari has been fined $100,000 and referred to the World Motor Sport Council for team orders and bringing sport into disrepute




Effectively a slap on the wrist then.

 

[Ghost]

If they really want to stop team orders the only thing they can do is make it 1 driver per team.

I've never understood why they dont do that anyway, 2 drivers is just contrary to the nature of motor racing imo, F1 ceases to be a sport in situation like today where there is no competition for first place.

If the FIA want it to be a sport they have to make it a legitimate straight fight between drivers/cars. We dont have that as it stands.




Edit: They've fined them? :lol unbelievable, if Ferrari had brought Massa in to pit first and left Alonso out to cover him off there would have been no action over this, because they did it in a somewhat transparant way (even if they denied it) they have been fined. So all it will achieve is making the teams more underhanded and giving racing fans less information.

 

[Pimpwerx]

I like this post somewhere else in the Web



the part about Kimi in 2007... had Massa (again) not let Kimi past then Alonso would have been the 2007 WDC, I say let's all be honest and if the stewards punish Ferrari for today's shenanigans they shall as well revisit Brazil 2007 and hand the WDC back to Alonso.

That 2008 reference is so bogus. I know people love conspiracies, but Lewis overtook his teammate then caught and passed the leader a few laps later. When the most-aggressive overtaker in the series overtakes a guy who's currently driving for Lotus, it's not team orders. PEACE.

 

[Pimpwerx]

NobleF1 - Ferrari has been fined $100,000 and referred to the World Motor Sport Council for team orders and bringing sport into disrepute




Effectively a slap on the wrist then.

Pretty much. They got a stiffer fine for mucking up a podium. :lol PEACE.

 

[avaya]

I've never understood why they dont do that anyway, 2 drivers is just contrary to the nature of motor racing imo.

You are right. It should be 3 drivers per team. That was how Grand Prix racing started.

Motor racing has always been about the teams first.

 

[Pterion]

That 2008 reference is so bogus. I know people love conspiracies, but Lewis overtook his teammate then caught and passed the leader a few laps later. When the most-aggressive overtaker in the series overtakes a guy who's currently driving for Lotus, it's not team orders. PEACE.

Hamilton overtaking his teammate = team orders, according to some.

 

[anonnumber6]

That 2008 reference is so bogus. I know people love conspiracies, but Lewis overtook his teammate then caught and passed the leader a few laps later. When the most-aggressive overtaker in the series overtakes a guy who's currently driving for Lotus, it's not team orders. PEACE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epI6u6uA8hM

 

[Pterion]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epI6u6uA8hM

:lol That was embarassing.

*slowly walks out of thread*

 

[Ghost]

You are right. It should be 3 drivers per team. That was how Grand Prix racing started.

Motor racing has always been about the teams first.

I do understand that its always been this way, but it still doesn't make sense to me, its like having a football league with Man Utd A and Man Utd B, it all seems fine until they play each other and suddenly there's no actual competition, then it ceases to be a sporting contest.

 

[megateto]

Your idol "fixed" his way into another win today, just accept it.

You mean Ferrari fixed it, not Fernando, I guess...

 

[Britprog]

NobleF1 - Ferrari has been fined $100,000 and referred to the World Motor Sport Council for team orders and bringing sport into disrepute




Effectively a slap on the wrist then.

The fact that it's gone to the WMSC for bringing the sport into disrepute is massive, they may get a race ban or two.

If the stewards thought this matter closed, surely they should have just given a fine

 

[avaya]

Stewards don't know what punishment to give for team orders because there is no standard on which to base it. WMSC will decide.

 

[Juicy Bob]

Looks like this willl run and run. They won't hold the hearing until weeks from now. At least we have a decision, though, Now I can finally go to bed!

 

[Harry_Tequila]

The fact that it's gone to the WMSC for bringing the sport into disrepute is massive, they may get a race ban or two.

If the stewards thought this matter closed, surely they should have just given a fine

All it means is that it is passed on to a much later date, by which point the media furore will have died down, so they can just sweep it under the carpet.

No chance of race bans whatsoever.

 

[Lince]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epI6u6uA8hM

there you go, good find, but it's Hamilton and Macca so it's all good in the world. Heikki was less "obvious" about the incident after the race and neither the (mostly British) fans or the press were so aggressive on it, if Heikki could overcook and run wide that corner with Hamilton just behind then why wouldn't Felipe shift 3 gears at once by mistake? :lol

 

[Pimpwerx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epI6u6uA8hM

Worst angle of that move ever, but I can't find a better one (stupid FIA). I remembered that as a simple inside-out move, but Kov goes way too deep into that turn. I'll leave it alone then. My memory of that moment was a lot better than the reality. :lol PEACE.

 

[Pterion]

there you go, good find, but it's Hamilton and Macca so it's all good in the world. Heikki was less "obvious" about the incident after the race and neither the (mostly British) fans or the press were so aggressive on it, if Heikki could overcook and run wide that corner with Hamilton just behind then why wouldn't Felipe shift 3 gears at once by mistake? :lol

Hamilton finished 1st, Kovalainen 5th. That should put things a bit into perspective.

 

[Pimpwerx]

there you go, good find, but it's Hamilton and Macca so it's all good in the world. Heikki was less "obvious" about the incident after the race and neither the (mostly British) fans or the press were so aggressive on it, if Heikki could overcook and run wide that corner with Hamilton just behind then how wouldn't Felipe shift 3 gears at once by mistake? :lol

Lewis was gonna take him. I think he had a late puncture and that's why he got dropped back. So he was on fresh rubber. He caught Kov up really quick, and was gonna pass him. He passed Piquet too, and he was going faster than Kov.

That said, it does look like Kov was told to yield, because if he didn't, Lewis wouldn't have caught Piquet, but would still have gotten around Kov. It's a different scenario to what happened today, though, which is why this reaction is more akin to what happened in 01 and 02.

It's just the way it is. If you force a guy to concede a win, you're gonna get shit on. There are no other instances where a win is conceded like this. I'm fine with team orders, but I'm also fine with the criticism. I was a Schuey fan, so I know where you're coming from. But just know this is gonna be one of those things that will be brought up for the rest of his career, especially in light of the Singapore incident and his earlier this season. PEACE.

 

[Dilly]

Worst angle of that move ever, but I can't find a better one (stupid FIA). I remembered that as a simple inside-out move, but Kov goes way too deep into that turn. I'll leave it alone then. My memory of that moment was a lot better than the reality. :lol PEACE.

It looked ridiculous from all angles, none the less it was a different situation.

 

[anonnumber6]

Hamilton finished 1st, Kovalainen 5th. That should put things a bit into perspective.

Kovalainen letting Hamilton go past him won Hamilton the race

 

[Pterion]

Kovalainen letting Hamilton go past him won Hamilton the race

Hmm, I'm pretty sure Kovi wasn't P1 when he was overtaken. But hey, keep digging.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Kovalainen letting Hamilton go past him won Hamilton the race

No, it won him a 2nd place position. He went on to pass Piquet, which is what won him the race. Kov was in no way, shape or form going to win that race. He was behind a slower driver in a slower car. Kov was krap. There's a reason only a few instances of team orders get this level of attention.

I feel like it was Jerez 97 when team orders first came into question. Before that, I thought it was an accepted part of the sport. PEACE.

 

[anonnumber6]

Hmm, I'm pretty sure Kovi wasn't P1 when he was overtaken. But hey, keep digging.

Nope he and Hamilton were 5th and 6th. But a team order in 5th and 6th is still a team order, you don't have to be in 1st and 2nd for it to be classed as a team order.

I'm not trying to criticize Mclaren, they did the right thing at that race as Ferrari have done today.

 

[Lince]

Hamilton finished 1st, Kovalainen 5th. That should put things a bit into perspective.

from my perspective Kovi and Massa are equally shitty, that's all, I don't care what the outcome of all this team-orders affair is, F1 is the only "sport" so ridiculous that it gets more interesting once the race is over and the off-track action starts, we only get 2-3 decent races in a year at best. I really don't know why I keep watching in the first place.

 

[duckroll]

Ferrari has been fined 65,000 pounds. Weak.

 

[itsgreen]

Ha!

Hamilton just pitted had new soft tyres when that happened. While Kovalainen already had 16 laps on those tyres.

Also Hamilton dominated the whole event. He just fell back behind Kova because of the pitstop.

And Hamilton was a second per lap faster in those laps...

He came back from P5 to P1 in those 13 laps.... that says enough....

 

[Fowler]

I love how no matter what the incident is about, every argument about F1 somehow comes down to Lewis Hamilton.

 

[Pterion]

I love how no matter what the incident is about, every argument about F1 somehow comes down to Lewis Hamilton.

Haters gonna hate.

 

[Gabyskra]

I love how no matter what the incident is about, every argument about F1 somehow comes down to Lewis Hamilton.

GAF's english bias

 

[Pimpwerx]

Oh snap! This was a Fox race. They're running it now. Why is it that Fox either choose to broadcast terrible races, or fixed races? This race will turn a lot of people off again. Probably worse than the 02 and 05 Indy races did due to the radio broadcasts. It's not gonna look good juxtaposed with the Edward/Keselowski beef in NASCAR where guys are pretty cutthroat. PEACE.

 

[Britprog]

I love how no matter what the incident is about, every argument about F1 somehow comes down to Lewis Hamilton.

QFT

On second thought I agree with Harry_Tequila, its gonna be swept under the carpet.

I don't think Ferrari should be penalised tbh, team orders happen all the time.

However, I think they shouldn't have ordered massa to move as its too early in the season, and it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. If Alonso was faster than Massa he should overtake him on merit!!!

EDIT: Also I don't think they would have done this if it Raikkonen was still driving instead of Alonso. It obvious Alonso had a hand this!!

 

[Mobius 1]

Another day, another brazilian that left his balls home when driving for Ferrari. :-(

Shameful

 

[Massa]

Oh snap! This was a Fox race. They're running it now. Why is it that Fox either choose to broadcast terrible races, or fixed races? This race will turn a lot of people off again. Probably worse than the 02 and 05 Indy races did due to the radio broadcasts. It's not gonna look good juxtaposed with the Edward/Keselowski beef in NASCAR where guys are pretty cutthroat. PEACE.

Nothing wrong with people knowing what it's all about. People who are turned off by fixed results shouldn't bother with F1 anyway.

 

[Britprog]

Saw this on autosport and had to post

BREAKING NEWS! FERRARI FINE ALREADY PAID VIA PAYPAL!

 

[avaya]

This is actually an INCREDIBLE fuck-up by Domenicali.

Not many realise the wider reaching consequences of this colossal fuck-up.

Ferrari have been at war with the FIA about multiple issues for a long time.

More money for the teams, deciding racing venues, arguing for greater team control of the rules, 3rd cars etc. etc.

Now they've gone and fucked up by breaking the same rule that McLaren dipshits broke in 2007 and Renault got found out for in 2008. Ferrari didn't just break the no team orders rule. They fucking broke 151c. This does give the FIA carte blanche to fuck-up them up.

It gives the FIA massive leverage on a whole range of issues.

 

[megateto]

Please, avaya, do elaborate on that 151c rule.

 

[avaya]

Please, avaya, do elaborate on that 151c rule.

Bringing the sport into disrepute.

What will happen is in return for the FIA not banning them for this they will expect Ferrari's cooperation on a whole range of issues. Poison Dwarf must be thinking all his Christmases have come together, just before the new Concorde is signed.

It is potentially disastrous to not only Ferrari but all of the major teams (Mac, Merc, RBR, Renault).

FIA could have Ferrari by the balls.

 

[itsgreen]

Bringing the sport into disrepute.

What will happen is in return for the FIA not banning them for this they will expect Ferrari's cooperation on a whole range of issues. Poison Dwarf must be thinking all his Christmases have come together, just before the new Concorde is signed.

It is potentially disastrous to not only Ferrari but all of the major teams (Mac, Merc, RBR, Renault).

FIA could have Ferrari by the balls.

Yeah it's a biggie.

The 100k is peanuts for Ferrari F1 Spa. Like the costs of 2 wings... but the MSWC is a big big problem.

 

[avaya]

There is no doubt they've breached 151c.

No doubt at all.

 

[Leonsito]

There is no doubt they've breached 151c.

No doubt at all.

Yep, this will be interesting:

In a statement issued on Sunday night, the FIA stated that a breach of Article 39.1, which bans team orders, and 151c, which relates to bringing the sport into disrepute, had been committed.