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Official Formula One 2010 Thread

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TylerD

Member
FFS Vettel...

People need to quit bitching about boring races. The 4 cars in front were within a couple of seconds deep into the race. 5 different drivers have won this year, 2 teams are very close at the top. We aren't going to have a massive amount of overtaking with the current aero packages. The fastest cars in qualifying at the front tend to stay at the front during the race??? What madness!

In other news: My fantasy team was terrible this weekend.

Kubica/Buemi/Renault/Lotus/Total

Kubica at 6th is not so bad, Buemi getting the flat early on sucked, both Lotus cars dropped out of the race during one commercial break, and I lost big fuel points when Vettel took himself out and Alonso got together with Petrov. I will drop like a rock from 11th.

Oh well, I leave for Montreal in 10 days and will get to see and hear F1 cars in person for the first time. :)
 

Pimpwerx

Member
The longer you keep a driver, the cheaper he becomes overall, I think. The price stays the same, but you'll notice that dropping to a cheaper driver might end up costing you more. I've had Sutil for a good number of races now, and that's the case. The same with Petrov this weekend. It was cheaper to stay with him. I remember the same when I started with Liuzzi. I assume this holds true for everything.

My team was Sut/Pet/Ren/Ren/Tot. I shouldn't lose more than one or two places, but still. PEACE.
 

John_B

Member
Salacious Crumb said:
I don't get this kind of talk, if he should be leading the championship he would be, Hamilton is an amazing driver among many, but for whatever reason people insist on singling him out as the messiah of F1. I think I'd like Hamilton if it wasn't for his fans.
I think Hamilton's race performance has been the strongest of any driver on the grid so far this season, but his luck with strategy and equipment has cost him valuable points. It's hard to evalutate what drivers deserve or don't deserve. You can't win in Formula 1 on racecraft alone.

I'm a bit confused as to why there are so many racing fans that hate people who praise Hamilton. It's wrong to root for a very talented and popular driver, but it's somehow logical to loathe these people?

Hamilton does have some unique overtaking skills, and he will win multiple championships. It's a legend in the making. There is no reason to be bitter about it. Just be happy we have some taltented and entertaining drivers this generation.
 

dalin80

Banned
would hamilton currently be leading the championship if it wasn't for that last lap wheel rim failure a couple of races ago?
 

Pterion

Member
dalin80 said:
would hamilton currently be leading the championship if it wasn't for that last lap wheel rim failure a couple of races ago?
Yes. Then again, same could be said for Vettel and his mechanical failures.
 

DrM

Redmond's Baby
Alonso is saying that they will bring updates to Canada and big one to Valencia....we will see, they already said similar stuff for couple of races.
 

Salacious Crumb

Junior Member
John_B said:
I think Hamilton's race performance has been the strongest of any driver on the grid so far this season, but his luck with strategy and equipment has cost him valuable points. It's hard to evalutate what drivers deserve or don't deserve. You can't win in Formula 1 on racecraft alone.

I'm a bit confused as to why there are so many racing fans that hate people who praise Hamilton. It's wrong to root for a very talented and popular driver, but it's somehow logical to loathe these people?

Hamilton does have some unique overtaking skills, and he will win multiple championships. It's a legend in the making. There is no reason to be bitter about it. Just be happy we have some taltented and entertaining drivers this generation.

I have no problem with people that root for him, and it's obvious why they do, he's a very exciting driver to watch. My issue is with the people that seem to think that Hamilton is incapable of making mistakes, he's the perfect driver and whenever he's involved in an incident or loses a race it's someone else's fault. It seems to be so apparent to these people that every other driver is second class compared to Hamilton and if he doesn't win it was a bad race all round. It's those people that annoy me.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
dalin80 said:
i prefer to think of those failures as karma for being a douche bag.

I prefer to think of anything bad that befalls Lewis as being Karma for running up the back of a parked car in the pitlane.
 

dalin80

Banned
StoOgE said:
I prefer to think of anything bad that befalls Lewis as being Karma for running up the back of a parked car in the pitlane.

what about the guy who ran into the back of lewis? double karma?
 

Pimpwerx

Member
Salacious Crumb said:
I have no problem with people that root for him, and it's obvious why they do, he's a very exciting driver to watch. My issue is with the people that seem to think that Hamilton is incapable of making mistakes, he's the perfect driver and whenever he's involved in an incident or loses a race it's someone else's fault. It seems to be so apparent to these people that every other driver is second class compared to Hamilton and if he doesn't win it was a bad race all round. It's those people that annoy me.
When do you read that though? I think as Hamilton fans, we've come to accept that he'll make some rash decisions and even mistakes. I think we all commended Jenson on great tire decisions twice. There have been incidents where Lewis was clearly in the wrong and I don't hear anyone defend him then. Hell, some of us even got on Lewis when he threw the team under the bus earlier this season.

IMO, the only contentious issue has been Spa 2008, which Lewis was in the right, and the stewards were complete bitches about. I'm a fan, not an apologist. Lots of guys make mistakes. Lewis hasn't made too many this season.

Oh, what I do find annoying is people who like to attribute every problem Lewis has to him being too aggressive. He burned his toast because he's too aggressive. PEACE.
 

navanman

Crown Prince of Custom Firmware
Anyway this thread has gone way OT and into PS3, 360 fanboy trolling territory so back to business.

BREAKING NEWS FROM TWITTER:
Mark Webber was ordered to turn his engine down on the lap that Sebastian Vettel tried the move on him. Story on autosport.com soon
From F1fanatic:
After the race the BBC reported rumours that Vettel was instructed to turn his engine up to get a power boost before the crash – and Webber had received the opposite instruction to turn his engine down at the same time.
Looks like a total backfire from Horner. He was going to allow Vettel to pass for some reason and Vettel cocked up the overtake.
 

Pterion

Member
navanman said:
Anyway this thread has gone way OT and into PS3, 360 fanboy trolling territory so back to business.

BREAKING NEWS FROM TWITTER:
Looks like there's a clear team favorite at Redbull.
 

Pimpwerx

Member
Red Bull manages to give even more confusing instructions than McLaren...amazing. It would be strange that both teams almost suffer the same fate due to conflicting orders. PEACE.
 

Dead Man

Member
navanman said:
Anyway this thread has gone way OT and into PS3, 360 fanboy trolling territory so back to business.

BREAKING NEWS FROM TWITTER:

From F1fanatic:

Looks like a total backfire from Horner. He was going to allow Vettel to pass for some reason and Vettel cocked up the overtake.
If true, my respect for Horner has gone out the window. What a dick move.
 

Bobo

Member
I haven’t been so excited during a race since Brazil 08. I even woke up my new kitten (Her first F1 race, awww.) when the RedBullocks twatted each other. 100% Vettel’s fault, even though Webber did squeeze him a little. I was literally on the edge of my seat for the last 10 laps or so/ during the Hamilton Button battle. Bring on Canada should the track should suit the Mclaren well.

F1racemanger: My choice to go Mclaren/Mclaren for engine chassis paid of well *smug git grin* but at the expense of good drivers. Disappointed with my bets, only one bet correct. (Kubica in qualifying) could have been more if Vettel didn’t crash out, I had him for 1st or 2nd and Hamilton for 3rd./ Alonso “wrecked” Petrov (who had a very impressive race until then.) thus letting Sutil to score more than 1 point and Sauber to finish in the points.
 

John_B

Member
It would have put Vettel and Webber on 2 victories each instead of 1 to 3, but it's still early on, so why even worry about the end season result now? The point difference would have been negligible.

Or maybe Horner is just thinking what everyone else is thinking, that old man Webber is peaking now, but in the long run Vettel will be the true championship contender.

I feel bad for Webber, this is the point of his career he has been waiting for, but now he has to wonder if the people behind want him to succeed in the first place. It's probably why Hamilton seemed so unhappy today as well. He probably speculated if his team tried to give the win to Button.

Formula 1 is a crazy show on and off the track.
 

DrM

Redmond's Baby
Webber in fuel-save mode before crash
Mark Webber had to turn his engine down on the lap that Sebastian Vettel tried to pull a move on him for the lead, Red Bull Racing has confirmed, but the team insists that was still no excuse for its drivers colliding.

Mystery surrounded the exact circumstances of what happened on lap 40, when Vettel closed in on Webber and drafted past him on the back straight before they crashed into each other.

Suspicions that all was not straightforward surfaced immediately after the race when Webber told journalists in the post-race press conference that they should 'dig more' to find out what had really happened.

Although the team initially believed that both its drivers were running exactly the same engine settings during their battle for the lead, the post-race debrief on Sunday night revealed that Webber had needed to save fuel and turn his engine down on lap 40 - while Vettel was still able to run at full power.

Even though such an order may not have come directly from the pits via the radio, a readout on Webber's dashboard would probably have told him that he needed to begin conserving fuel.

Vettel had been able to save fuel when running behind other cars early on, and he had enough extra petrol on board to be able to run one more lap at full power before he too would have had to turn his engine down.


That meant his only realistic chance of getting past Webber was on lap 40, when he would have enjoyed a brief car advantage over his team-mate.

Speaking in the Istanbul paddock on Sunday night, team principal Christian Horner said that he was finally aware of what had happened in the race.

"We now have all the facts," he said. "Mark had changed down into a fuel saving mode that cost him a little bit of performance on the straights, which also explains how Sebastian got a very clear run on him.

"The large mistake remains that not enough room was given, and the explanation is there on how Sebastian had managed to get into the tow. He had managed to save an extra kilogramme of fuel - as both cars start the race with the same amount of fuel.

"Effectively he had one more lap of the optimum engine mode, but we couldn't back him off because he was under pressure from Lewis Hamilton behind."

He added: "The frustrating thing is we have given away 28 points today and it should have been a 1-2. Both drivers have also lost points. From a team point of view it doesn't matter which way around they are, but the priority is to finish 1-2 and that is exactly what we should have done today."

Horner did not feel either driver was any more responsible than the other for the crash - but said that he was disappointed they had not given each other enough room.

"I think Mark put Sebastian on the dirty side, gave him just enough room and Sebastian came across obviously quite aggressively - but he was quite a long way down the side.

"So, it was very, very frustrating. We saw the McLarens racing each other and giving themselves a bit more room, we've seen drivers racing each other previously in Malaysia - which springs to mind as a recent race and they are usually very, very good at giving each other room. Today, for whatever reason, that didn't happen."

Horner was confident, however, that there would be no lingering hard-feeling between the drivers over the crash – and that Red Bull Racing would be able to shift its focus on to winning the next race on the calendar in Canada.

"Absolutely. This will be dealt with before we go to Canada. I've spoken to both drivers. They are both grown ups, they are both big boys, they are both competitors, and the most important thing is that we have given away a load of points today. It must not happen again. They must learn from it.

"It is right to let the drivers race. We saw McLaren today letting their drivers race, but when drivers are in the same team it is important that they give each other a bit more respect and concede if one has got a run on the other."

Horner also denied suggestions that the Turkish Grand Prix provided any evidence that Red Bull Racing favoured Vettel over Webber.

"Both our drivers are treated absolutely equally," he said. "They both have the same equipment, they both have the same opportunity. That is a policy we operate and that is the way that the team is – he managed to save a bit more fuel because he was in a slipstream for some of the race and he took advantage of that – as is his right to do.

"He [Vettel] was under a lot of pressure from Hamilton behind, which got him into a position to pass Mark. Our priority at that stage is that we want to win the race. Even if the cars wanted to change position we were still first and second, and it is still 43 points for the team and both drivers were pulling away from McLaren in the championship."
Autosport

:lol :lol :lol @ equal treatment
 

Deadman

Member
Good race.

Gutted that i had to make the choice between mclaren engines and petrov as driver and chose petrov.

Bad weekend for ferrari, theyve not only slipped away from mclaren and mercedes but have be caught be renault.

I also dont think its as clear cut as everyone says that everything is vettels fault either.
 

navanman

Crown Prince of Custom Firmware
Red Bull Shit!!

Damage control from Horner. Why would you tell the leader of the race to conserve fuel and not to your team mate right behind, thereby putting both at risk cars at risk?

Hardly fair treatment if they are both equals??
 

Igo

Member
navanman said:
Red Bull Shit!!

Damage control from Horner. Why would you tell the leader of the race to conserve fuel and not to your team mate right behind, thereby putting both at risk cars at risk?

Hardly fair treatment if they are both equals??

More than that, how is Horner, the team principal, just now getting the full story. It's complete nonsense.
 

Bobo

Member
Questions from the press conference.

Q. Is there any reason why he (Vettel) had a jump on you on that particular lap?
MW: Hmm. Maybe.

Q. Did you come out of the previous corner a bit slower on that lap?
MW: Hmm. You guys need to dig more, somewhere else.

Hmmmmm indeed.

Q. (Livio Oricchio – O Estado de Sao Paulo) Mark, was your strategy to keep Vettel inside, not to make him brake before and you keep your position, even if you brake late, he would go straight?
MW: It wasn't my plan to get him on the inside but he got there and I thought OK, I would just stay in the middle, as straight as I can, to make his line as tight as possible into the next corner obviously. And once we got to the braking point, he was obviously in a very strong position, but before we got there he came across to the right and I couldn't react fast enough, because I wasn't at all expecting that at that point, and that's why it happened so fast and there was contact. Of course in Seb's car, it obviously feels very bad for him that I've turned left into him, but I'm pretty confident that there was some drift from his way and then it was a fucking disaster. So you have the line.


Q. (Michael Schmidt – Auto, Motor und Sport) And Lewis, you were sitting in the first row, how did you see it?
LH: It was great to watch, it was like an action movie in HD or 3D; it was fantastic.:lol
 

curls

Wake up Sheeple, your boring insistence that Obama is not a lizardman from Atlantis is wearing on my patience 💤
Bobo said:
Q. (Michael Schmidt – Auto, Motor und Sport) And Lewis, you were sitting in the first row, how did you see it?
LH: It was great to watch, it was like an action movie in HD or 3D; it was fantastic.:lol

:lol :lol :lol That made my day!
 

Aegus

Member
Bobo said:
Q. (Michael Schmidt – Auto, Motor und Sport) And Lewis, you were sitting in the first row, how did you see it?
LH: It was great to watch, it was like an action movie in HD or 3D; it was fantastic.:lol


At least someone is getting F1 in HD.
 

ElyrionX

Member
Bobo said:
Q. (Michael Schmidt – Auto, Motor und Sport) And Lewis, you were sitting in the first row, how did you see it?
LH: It was great to watch, it was like an action movie in HD or 3D; it was fantastic.:lol


:lol
 

John_B

Member
megateto said:
So Hammy is not the favourite son anymore?
I think he indeed is. Him and Whitmarsh go along way back.

McLaren has changed since last season. People were shuffled around, a new equal driver treatment policy was enforced (same parts always, not like the shit Kovalainen had to race with). They even took some of Hamilton's mechanics and gave them to Button to even the two teams.

Button has worked very hard to get inside the team and get a foothold. He has only had success with the team (up until Monaco anyways), where Hamilton was already pissed about the tyre strategies in Australia (Button was offered to stay out, Hamilton was told to box).

So this season Hamilton has seen most of his focus moved to Button, and probably felt he should have been offered the same successful strategies Button were offered. Today after what happened he probably wondered if the team sold him out to Button.
 

navanman

Crown Prince of Custom Firmware
German TV is reporting that Horner and Marko told Webber to let Vettel through.

Webber must be pissed off, he is leading the WDC but clearly the teams second choice driver.
Another thing that has been happening recently is that Vettel has been pitting first at every race rather than Webber, clearly there is some bias.
 

navanman

Crown Prince of Custom Firmware
Q: Helmut, how disappointed do you feel to have let victory slip from your grasp?
Helmut Marko: A sure-fire one-two to be exact! It leaves you speechless.

Q: Do you regret there are no team orders anymore?
HM: Well, we thought that we had two responsible drivers who wouldn’t get into such a situation in the first place.

Q: Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said he didn’t believe it was Vettel’s fault. Is this the official opinion of the team?
HM: Well, in the situation Sebastian was in, he had no other choice than to act the way he did.

Q: How will the team respond?
HM: We will carefully analyse the situation and sit down with all involved to have a serious word about what happened and how to handle situations like that in the future.

Q: Will you change something in the future to avoid such an incident happening again?
HM: Well, first of all we always told them that it is a strict no-go to go to the wall with each other. Whatever happens they always have to give room to the other. I hope that all the people involved will think a bit more in the future before acting.

Q: That suggests that one of the two should have given way to the other…
HM: Yes.

Q: And you will discuss with them who that should have been …
HM: Yes.

Q: Is it true that the team gave instructions to Mark Webber’s race engineer to let Sebastian Vettel pass because otherwise Lewis (Hamilton)would be able to overtake?
HM: That is not correct, because that would mean a team order. We informed Mark about the situation and it is for the driver to decide. The fact is that if Sebastian hadn’t passed he would have been overtaken by Hamilton.

Q: Why was Sebastian so much quicker than Mark so suddenly?
HM: I think it was in the tyres.
 

Dead Man

Member
navanman said:
Q: Helmut, how disappointed do you feel to have let victory slip from your grasp?
Helmut Marko: A sure-fire one-two to be exact! It leaves you speechless.

Q: Do you regret there are no team orders anymore?
HM: Well, we thought that we had two responsible drivers who wouldn’t get into such a situation in the first place.

Q: Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said he didn’t believe it was Vettel’s fault. Is this the official opinion of the team?
HM: Well, in the situation Sebastian was in, he had no other choice than to act the way he did.

Q: How will the team respond?
HM: We will carefully analyse the situation and sit down with all involved to have a serious word about what happened and how to handle situations like that in the future.

Q: Will you change something in the future to avoid such an incident happening again?
HM: Well, first of all we always told them that it is a strict no-go to go to the wall with each other. Whatever happens they always have to give room to the other. I hope that all the people involved will think a bit more in the future before acting.

Q: That suggests that one of the two should have given way to the other…
HM: Yes.

Q: And you will discuss with them who that should have been …
HM: Yes.

Q: Is it true that the team gave instructions to Mark Webber’s race engineer to let Sebastian Vettel pass because otherwise Lewis (Hamilton)would be able to overtake?
HM: That is not correct, because that would mean a team order. We informed Mark about the situation and it is for the driver to decide. The fact is that if Sebastian hadn’t passed he would have been overtaken by Hamilton.

Q: Why was Sebastian so much quicker than Mark so suddenly?
HM: I think it was in the tyres.
Fuck RBR.
 

dalin80

Banned
wouldn't be surprised to a fia investigation into this as team orders are very strictly outlawed plus red bulls rep has took quite a hefty hit.
 

avaya

Member
Horner should go ask Jean or Ross how it's done. Damn son.

Bobo said:
Q. (Michael Schmidt – Auto, Motor und Sport) And Lewis, you were sitting in the first row, how did you see it?
LH: It was great to watch, it was like an action movie in HD or 3D; it was fantastic.:lol

<3 Lewis.
 

navanman

Crown Prince of Custom Firmware
So the one thing we have learned today is that "fuel saving" is the new team orders to let your team mate through.
The question is why did Horner think it was OK to let Vettel through on Webber. Webber was comfortably leading until he was told to "save fuel" when Vettel caught him by 0.4s a lap.
 

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
Pretty interesting race. RBR is fucking up. Between driver mistakes and reliability they are going to lose both titles. I think Webber left enough room. They need to look at Lewis and Jensen at how to fight properly.

Happy to see Schumacher in 4th, podium would be better.

Can't wait for Canada, should be great!
 

avaya

Member
I'm surprised people think fuel saving wasn't anything but team orders. They've been pulling that same shit since forever.

The team orders ban is a disgrace to the very fabric of Grand Prix racing. It is a TEAM contest from the beginning. They invested the money it's their cars and the drivers are their employees, they should do what they're told.

Banning team orders doesn't work. It always exists. You can't ban what's in contracts.

JT should repeal it, quite frankly a gross over reaction to Austria 2002.
 

Lucius86

Banned
dalin80 said:
wouldn't be surprised to a fia investigation into this as team orders are very strictly outlawed plus red bulls rep has took quite a hefty hit.

I have never been a fan of RBR, but never against them either. But now, with the responses RBR have given to this, I am turning into a hater. It is clear that Vettel pushed over onto Mark Webber's front wing. Webber drove hard leading in to the chicane, but fairly.

RBR are playing dangerous games here. The hugs from Horner & co. on the pit wall with Seb after the incident carry some hidden feelings I feel. All reports so far suggest RBR believe this is Mark's fault...

Sod them.
 

navanman

Crown Prince of Custom Firmware
I agree with avaya, it has always been there but it still sucks..

Glad to see you have calmed down after your (insulting) tirade after the race.
 

Lucius86

Banned
avaya said:
The team orders ban is a disgrace to the very fabric of Grand Prix racing. It is a TEAM contest from the beginning. They invested the money it's their cars and the drivers are their employees, they should do what they're told.

It is a team contest, yes, but I think you are missing the grandest point of all - these races are held FOR THE SPECTATORS. Team orders undermine the excitement and value of the races - if you ignore the enjoyment you and I get from watching team mates going hammer and tongs at each other (just look at the responses Hamilton and Button got for today - scary, but everyone loved it), then you might as well not hold the races.
 

avaya

Member
Lucius86 said:
It is a team contest, yes, but I think you are missing the grandest point of all - these races are held FOR THE SPECTATORS. Team orders undermine the excitement and value of the races - if you ignore the enjoyment you and I get from watching team mates going hammer and tongs at each other (just look at the responses Hamilton and Button got for today - scary, but everyone loved it), then you might as well not hold the races.

Banning it and not banning makes no difference.

They just do it in secret. There are many elaborate ways of doing it. It's always happened and will continue to happen. The rule is not worth the paper it's written on.
 

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
It is a team contest, but when it is all said and done people care more about the drivers championship than the constuctors.
 

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
vettel.jpg
 

Lucius86

Banned
avaya said:
Banning it and not banning makes no difference.

They just do it in secret. There are many elaborate ways of doing it. It's always happened and will continue to happen. The rule is not worth the paper it's written on.

Yes they will find ways - there's too much money involved for it NOT to happen. But endorsing it reduces the spectacle of the sport.
 

Bobo

Member
avaya said:
Banning it and not banning makes no difference.

They just do it in secret. There are many elaborate ways of doing it. It's always happened and will continue to happen. The rule is not worth the paper it's written on.
Piquet - Alonso Singapore 08 immediately springs to mind! :D
 
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