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Official Formula One 2010 Thread

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AcridMeat

Banned
StoOgE said:
I really don't get the "Mac taught RBR how to pass" stuff.

If anything, the difference seemed to be that the two guys were both less willing to wreck their cars just to get up on the other guy and seemed slightly more reserved.

That's exactly the reason why I was saying they taught RBR how to pass. McLaren didn't wreck each other, they had a great battle through 5 or 6 turns. Red Bull wrecked and cost themselves dearly.

I'm not arguing the battle with the McLarens wasn't a bad idea, but the drivers handled it properly.
 
The McLarens touched each other too. It's just a gamble in such tight fights if something happens or not. It all happens in a split seconds and centimeters can make the difference between hero or zero. And its not like Hamilton or Button have never been involved in crashes that looked just as stupid as the Red Bull one.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Steppenwolf said:
The McLarens touched each other too. It's just a gamble in such tight fights if something happens or not. It all happens in a split seconds and centimeters can make the difference between hero or zero. And its not like Hamilton or Button have never been involved in crashes that looked just as stupid as the Red Bull one.

That's basically my point. Their wheels touched which basically puts it into the "lucky they didnt crash" territory. They did it in a corner which meant the results were not as apt to be bad as the entry to the corner or a straight.. but the Mac kiddos dodged a bullet there.

I am curious if the FIA is going to look into these team orders that were allegedly flying around the radio.
 

AcridMeat

Banned
Fair point, Hamilton was aggressive with Button and did touch him out of the way (which is why it was hilarious to see Button in the interview talking about being passed again in turn 1).

I still think he (Hamilton) must have been thinking he could get away with it because of the position on the track. However they did go through the same turn as the Red Bulls and were fair and clean through that section.
 

Animal

Banned
Steppenwolf said:
The McLarens touched each other too. It's just a gamble in such tight fights if something happens or not. It all happens in a split seconds and centimeters can make the difference between hero or zero. And its not like Hamilton or Button have never been involved in crashes that looked just as stupid as the Red Bull one.

You are right that they are taking the same risks in both cases and either could of ended up looking like idiots.

Unfortunately, comparing Vettel's aggressive "Give me some room" jerk of the steering wheel is not even comparable to the mclaren scenario.

Both McLaren driver's actions are on the same level as Webber's move of giving Vettel minimum space. Vettel's move is overkill aggressive, childish and above all stupid.

He tried to show Webber who's daddy and it blew up in his face. RBR is in full damage control mode in order to salvage Vettel's young little mind.

The touch between McLaren drivers was accidental in my view on both sides unlike Vettel's.
 

navanman

Crown Prince of Custom Firmware
I view the McLarens passing incidents the same as I view the Alonso-Petrov battle.

Both were fair racing overtakes and we see those wheel to wheel bumps all the time.

On that note, the reason Petrov got the puncture was because Alonso wheel rim shattered when they touched and pierced Petrov's tyre.

2rwqknk.jpg
 

Animal

Banned
navanman said:
I view the McLarens passing incidents the same as I view the Alonso-Petrov battle.

Both were fair racing overtakes and we see those wheel to wheel bumps all the time.

On that note, the reason Petrov got the puncture was because Alonso wheel rim shattered when they touched and pierced Petrov's tyre.
http://i47.tinypic.com/2rwqknk.jpg

Nice find!

Mind me asking where you found this out?
 

Bobo

Member
Martin brundle.
Apparently, Mark Webber was in fuel-saving mode when Sebastian Vettel started to close.

Vettel was in second place because Red Bull had outsmarted McLaren on pit-stop strategy; Hamilton and Button were in the best grandstand seats driving in the heat haze and exhaust gases of the charging Red Bulls.

Suddenly, Vettel was close out of Turn 10 and into the slipstream of his team-mate heading at 200mph towards the obvious overtaking point of the 60mph Turn 12 hairpin
.
Webber instinctively defended and left an F1 car-sized gap at the side of the road on the dirty, unused part of the track. Vettel chose to take it and moved alongside and then slightly ahead.

At this point the German either realised he would never stop in time, or he wanted to muscle and intimidate Webber across the road to ensure a better line into the hairpin.
It was a deliberate move of the wheel from Vettel, not a slide under braking.

Unsurprisingly, Webber never moved, contact was made, Vettel was out of the race and Webber's car was damaged.
Although Hamilton and Button were half a metre away from doing the same thing later in the race, Red Bull can take a leaf out of McLaren's book, who have been here several times before.

I asked their team principal Martin Whitmarsh, tongue in cheek, at which point did they tell Button to pass Hamilton. His raised eyebrows and facial expression told me everything I needed to know.

I read it that Hamilton moved into fuel-saving mode as instructed, having also been told that Button was in the same situation. So when Button cruised past him it was an instant reaction to nail him straight back.

As Button squeezed Hamilton towards the pit wall the dust and discarded carbon-fibre was visibly being kicked up, we were all thinking: "How is Hamilton going to slow down enough with dirty tyres from an impossibly tight angle into the blind Turn One?"

Obviously Button was thinking the same and left him some space, otherwise Webber was about to inherit the lead once more.
 

navanman

Crown Prince of Custom Firmware
Pitpass broke this story over the weekend but it was drowned in the Vettel, Webber incident but it seems a new SpyGate case is on-going between Force India & Lotus.

Force India alleges that Lotus have copied there F1 car through the use of the data gathered by Aerlolab, the third party who did the design work for Lotus.

Records at the UK's High Court show that Force India has launched a damages claim against the companies which run Lotus Racing alleging that they copied the windtunnel model which its car is based on. The claim has echoes of the row which erupted in 2007 when the FIA fined McLaren $100m for possessing blueprints from Ferrari.

The claim has been filed against the 1Malaysia Racing Team company in the UK and Malaysia. It also names Lotus Racing's chief technical officer Mike Gascoyne and Italian automotive firm Aerolab which worked with Lotus to develop its 2010 car. Aerolab previously worked with Force India for three years until September 2009 and Gascoyne was the team's chief technology officer from November 2006 until November 2008.

Force India allegedly left its windtunnel model with Aerolab and this has led to the accusation of copying since Lotus used its facilities when it rejoined the sport in September last year after a 16-year hiatus.

According to Mark Buckley, litigation partner at Fladgate, which is representing Force India, "it is really too late to put right what they (Lotus) have done which is basically copy the windtunnel model rather than the car itself." A value has not yet been put on the damages but it is likely to be around £17.9m since this is the amount Force India annually spends on research and development of its car.


The claim was filed in February and followed reports of legal action from Aerolab against Force India for "serious and persistent" breaches of contract. "Aerolab is suing Force India for not fulfilling its obligations," said Aerolab managing director Jean-Claude Migeot in a statement last November.

Lotus claims that "the civil proceedings referred to are between Force India and Aerolab. These proceedings do not allege any wrong doing on the part of Lotus Racing. Aerolab vigorously denies any wrong doing and has provided Lotus Racing with a full indemnity in relation to the claim." In response Buckley says Force India has "significant evidence of copying and is confident that either there will be a settlement or it will be successful if it goes to court."
Lotus Racing has been granted full indemnity from Aerolab/Fondtech in the aerodynamic design company's ongoing court action with the Force India team.

Force India is seeking damages from Fondtech/Aerolab because it believes it copied the team's wind tunnel design model in the work it did helping out Lotus.

Aerolab/Fondtech has constantly denied claims that it passed on any data to Lotus and, although it has called on the Hingham-based team as a co-defendant in the case, the team has received assurances that it is not involved in the claim.

A Lotus spokesman confirmed on Tuesday that it was aware of the legal action between Aerolab/Fondtech, but confirmed his outfit was exempted from the matter.

"Lotus Racing has been joined as a co-defendant in civil proceedings which are principally between Force India and Aerolab/Fondtech," said the spokesman. "These proceedings do not allege any wrong doing on the part of Lotus Racing.

"Aerolab/Fondtech vigorously denies any wrong doing and has provided Lotus Racing with a full indemnity in relation to the claim."

Source
 

DrM

Redmond's Baby
Problems for Ferrari (TotalF1)

Fernando Alonso looks as though he is beginning to lose faith in Ferrari's development process after admitting that the Italian team are way behind Red Bull and McLaren and their upcoming upgrades aren't good enough.

"We know we have to improve. How long would that take? It is not known, but the truth is that we are almost eight tenths off of Red Bull and McLaren 6 or 7 [tenths] and the upcoming updates that we have do not give us this amount of pace," Alonso told La Razon.

BBC commentator, Jonathan Legard understands that Alonso is frustrated by the lack of upgrades coming out of the Maranello factory.

"I'm told that Fernando Alonso is very frustrated by Ferrari's rate of development. Compared to his time at McLaren in 2007, when the British team had updates for every race, Ferrari's flow of new parts this season has been very slow, with no more than little tweaks here and there so far."

Meanwhile it isn't only Alonso who has his doubts. Chief designer, Nicholas Tombazis, has also admitted that the updates planned for the Valencia GP, which Stefano Domenicali described as 'major', won't be enough to catch the leading two.

"In Valencia we will have a major change with many new parts," he stated. "But, the improvement we think will not be enough to reach the level of development of the strongest [teams]."

Despite this, team principal Domenicali, is adamant the team will not give up on the 2010 season, like they did in '09.

"We are not going to stop developing this car -- we are not throwing away these races so far," he told Spanish newspaper AS.

"We will continue working on the F10 until the end of the season."

Renault going after Mercedes:
Renault boss Eric Boullier says he is 'eager' to see what kind of progress Renault can make in the next few races - as he sets his team's sights on overhauling Mercedes GP.

The French car manufacturer has made impressive progress with its R30 this season, having elected to take an aggressive development push with the car at every race.

And with yet another new front wing having helped it outqualify both Ferraris in Turkey last weekend, Boullier now reckons that more updates scheduled for Canada and the next few races can lift it past Mercedes GP too.

"I am eagerly looking for the next steps," Boullier told AUTOSPORT. "We have some steps for Canada, but we have to remember the track is a different in terms of the downforce level.

"However, for Valencia and Silverstone we will keep the development rate up. We can now go faster than Mercedes GP in qualifying, and that is the goal."

Renault is currently fifth in the Constructors' Championship after the Turkish Grand Prix, with Robert Kubica sixth in the drivers' standings having taken two podium finishes.
Autosport
 

Dead Man

Member
navanman said:
Pitpass broke this story over the weekend but it was drowned in the Vettel, Webber incident but it seems a new SpyGate case is on-going between Force India & Lotus.

Force India alleges that Lotus have copied there F1 car through the use of the data gathered by Aerlolab, the third party who did the design work for Lotus.




Source
Well that sounds messy. No one in F1 is going to give that company any more work, no matter how it turns out.
 

DrM

Redmond's Baby
Ok, Austrian tv reported that RBR will not use F-duct in Canada, but they will use it in Valencia. It still needs fine tuning, and they will probably do this in Canada FP
 

navanman

Crown Prince of Custom Firmware
DrM said:
Ok, Austrian tv reported that RBR will not use F-duct in Canada, but they will use it in Valencia. It still needs fine tuning, and they will probably do this in Canada FP

They will need it for Canada, it has the one of the longest straights on the F1 calendar which leads into Wall of Champions , perfect McLaren overtaking opportunity.

I expect McLaren to be very strong anyway, its mix of long straights and tight chicanes suits their car. The McLaren was noticeably better in Sector 3 last weekend, turned into the slow corners much better.

Circuit_Gilles_Villeneuve.png
 

DrM

Redmond's Baby
Yes, without F-Duct RBR will face very hard race. Other teams (Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault) should also be closer. Atleast Ferrari fans claim so :)

Mclaren used new rear wing in Turkey, which was scheduled for Montreal, but they managed to develop it faster. All they need is to improve in fast corners, but they managed that quite well on the last race. Huge upgrade is planned for Silverstone, probably RBR style diffusor feeding exhausts.

EDIT: Lap with Hamilton - Turkey 2010. Ok, what is Lewis doing with left hand? Did they switched F-duct to hand operating system or they use hand and knee system?
 

navanman

Crown Prince of Custom Firmware
Vettel that is. Going to more accusations of favouritism in Red Bull with the latest news.

Red Bull Racing is making moves to secure Sebastian Vettel's future at the team until the end of 2015, AUTOSPORT has learned, in a bid to head off interest from rival teams.

Vettel's current deal run until the end of 2012, but despite there still being two years to run, team insiders have revealed that the outfit hopes to conclude a three-year extension as soon as possible.


It is understood that talks have already opened between the driver and the team about the idea of committing him to the team until 2015, although no deal has yet been finalised.

Hopes of keeping Vettel on board have been boosted by the fact that the team's technical chief Adrian Newey has indicated that he is now likely to stay at the outfit for the long-term, after agreeing to a rolling contract.

Team principal Christian Horner told AUTOSPORT about the Newey situation: "The relationship is open-ended. He is enjoying what he is doing, he enjoys the environment at Red Bull and he is still relatively young.

"It is not like he is an old timer, so I don't think he has any plans to retire at the moment. He will certainly be here for the foreseeable future."

While the team hopes to build its longer-term plans around Vettel, insiders suggest that Mark Webber will be kept on single-year contracts rather than also being put on a multi-season deal.

Despite the controversy caused by his collision with Vettel in Turkey last weekend, it is expected that Webber's new contract for 2011 will be sorted out before the British Grand Prix.
Source
 

navanman

Crown Prince of Custom Firmware
Looks like there is more to the Lotus - Force India deal now with some significant engineering and design people leaving Force India for Lotus

Lotus has announced that it has recruited Force India design director Mark Smith to become its technical director.

A statement from Lotus said that Smith would join its team after working a 'notice period' at Force India.

Fellow Force India design team members Lewis Butler and Marianne Hinson have also been announced as new additions to Lotus' technical line-up, as chief designer and head of aerodynamics respectively.

All three have previously worked with Lotus chief technical officer Mike Gascoyne in other teams.

"I'm exceptionally pleased to welcome Marianne and Lewis to Lotus Racing, and I'm very excited to once again be teaming up with Mark Smith who I have previously worked with at Jordan, Renault and Force India," said Gascoyne.

"Lewis and I were together at Force India, and Lewis also worked with Mark Smith at Red Bull, and Marianne and I have known each other since 1999 when I gave her her first job in F1 at Jordan, so we all know each other very well.

"Mark Smith and I were first at Jordan together where our first car was the 199, Jordan's most successful F1 entrant, and then he came with me to Renault where we helped put them back on the top step of the podium, and put in place the team that went on to win two world championships.

"Most recently we were together at Force India, and I'm delighted he sees the potential we have here, and has seized the opportunity to work with me, Tony [Fernandes] and the whole team on helping Lotus Racing reach the front of the grid."

Team owner Tony Fernandes also welcomed the new appointments, saying he was particularly pleased to attract established technical names early in his team's existence.

"I am honoured that these fantastic talents have put their careers and their faith in Lotus Racing, and see the very bright future we all have together here," he said.

"Formula 1 is a small world and the fact that they are coming to our team shows what we have already achieved in a very short period.

"Nothing will stop us from bringing in the best people we can, and we will give them the best working environment, and create the perfect atmosphere for them to fulfil their own potential, and help us in our quest to reach the top."
Source
 

Manp

Member
Deadman said:
He is definitely using his hand for something, and its always on the straights too. Strange no one else has picked up on this.

not sure if it's true but last i've heard is McLaren's drivers never actually used their knee to operate the f-duct but was always using their elbow... so he keep the wheel only with his thumb on straights

that's just what they were saying on the Italian TV on last GP tho

:)
 

Fonds

Member
The F-Duct can't be a mechanical part due to FIA regulations, therefor the F-duct has to be operated by hand.

Braking balance is adjusted by hand in some cars as well.
 

navanman

Crown Prince of Custom Firmware
Won't copy and paste the whole thing but another great article by James Allen on fuel saving during a race and what it meant in the Vettel, Webber crash.

Let’s assume that this was the difference between the two Red Bull cars in lap 40, does it fully account for the speed differential between Vettel’s car and Webber’s on the back straight? In both the first two sectors of lap 40, Vettel’s straight line speed was 7km/h faster than Webber’s, but he was only a tenth up on Webber on lap 40 after two sectors, having been two tenths faster on lap 38. The pair set more or less identical times on lap 39, when Webber asked the team to slow Vettel down. Webber’s pace and ability to respond would indicate that he wasn’t suffering from rear tyre wear as has been suggested.

It looks to me like Vettel planned the move all along, having lost out in qualifying due to a mechanical failure on his car, he had a strategy which would give him a golden lap, when Webber would be saving fuel, in which to attack him. And if this is the case then one assumes it must have been sanctioned by the team. Perhaps they felt they owed it to him after letting him down again with the car in qualifying.

It brings into question the whole issue of transparency between team mates. In a tight championship fight, such as this, should the driver who qualified less well be given a chance to get back in front or should this be a team game where the team walks away with maximum points, regardless of who wins?

Full article
 

Dead Man

Member
Probably obvious, but just announcing a name change, from idahoblue, to Dead Man. Mainly so people would stop assuming I was from Idaho! :D Anyway, this is one of the few threads I post enough in for anyone to maybe recognise me, so that's the announcement.

Carry on, and bring on the next race.
 

Deadman

Member
Dead Man said:
Probably obvious, but just announcing a name change, from idahoblue, to Dead Man. Mainly so people would stop assuming I was from Idaho! :D Anyway, this is one of the few threads I post enough in for anyone to maybe recognise me, so that's the announcement.

Carry on, and bring on the next race.

:(
 

navanman

Crown Prince of Custom Firmware
SCHUEY F1 said:
vettel-webber.jpg


Shit happens!

So so staged and so fake looking. PR attempting to recover the "fun" aspect of RBR.

:lol :lol Sorry about the name change, unfortunate that it is nearly identical to another poster. You could ask to rename to "Not From Idaho"
 

Dead Man

Member
navanman said:
So so staged and so fake looking. PR attempting to recover the "fun" aspect of RBR.

:lol :lol Sorry about the name change, unfortunate that it is nearly identical to another poster. You could ask to rename to "Not From Idaho"
:lol If I think of something I might ask again, not sure how well that will go down though!
 

Leunam

Member
Something for any newcomers to the sport (like me).

Getting to grips with a Formula One steering wheel

35n0hw0.jpg


The main straight at Barcelona’s Circuit de Catalunya, where last month’s Spanish Grand Prix was held, is one of the longest of the season, measuring just shy of a kilometre. A Formula One car can cover that distance in 11.5 seconds - a lifetime by Formula One standards. And when the driver hits the straight, he’s already in fifth gear, so there’s very little to do apart from keeping his foot flat on the throttle.

As Renault’s Robert Kubica admits, it’s the perfect chance to take a breather and prepare for the lap ahead: “In the car it feels like the main straight never ends, so it’s a good time to make adjustments on the steering wheel or talk to your engineer on the radio.”

But what sort of adjustments can the drivers make, and what do all those colourful buttons and lights on the steering wheel actually do?

“The most important things the driver can control from the cockpit are the differential settings, the brake balance and the front wing angle,” explains chief race engineer, Alan Permane. “As the fuel load comes down and the tyres lose performance, the driver can change all these parameters to improve the balance and handling of the car. Both Robert and team mate Vitaly (Petrov) have a pretty good feel for how these settings will affect the car, but we also offer advice over the radio based on what we see in the telemetry.”

On average drivers will probably make tweaks to the differential every five laps or so, but there are some buttons that are used from corner to corner. In Shanghai during the Chinese Grand Prix, for example, Petrov was changing the multi-map setting on every lap to ensure optimum engine braking for Turn 14, the tricky hairpin at the end of the main straight. It has also become routine for drivers to adjust the brake balance from one corner to the next.

The wing button, introduced at the start of 2009, is also used regularly. At the press of a button, it allows the driver to manually adjust the angle of the front wing flap by up to six degrees while the car is out on track. It’s a function that’s especially useful during practice sessions, as Petrov’s race engineer, Mark Slade, explains: “The wing button is a quick and easy way to assess set-up options without having to bring the car back to the pits. We often send the car out with a base set-up and ask Vitaly if the car feels better with more or less wing.”

While the drivers are familiar with the key functions of the wheel, there are some things they will only change if given the call over the radio. Buttons controlling the revs, for example, can be used to conserve the engine and will lower the revs at which the engine changes gear. Similarly the ‘mix’ button adjusts the engine configuration if it’s necessary to save fuel.

The steering wheel is also the ideal place to display critical information relating to the race, especially lap times. “We can put pretty much whatever information we want on the steering wheel display,” explains Slade. “But we try not to overload the driver with issues relating to the health of the car, such as temperatures and pressures. The most critical information they want is their lap times so we store their fastest time and the readout gives them a continuous update of their current lap relative to their best.”
 
I wish they would simplify these steering wheels again. This stuff is all gimmicks that make no difference for the spectators and infact the driver would be more important again if he himself had to adjust his driving style to the changing car handling during a race instead the other way around.
 

S. L.

Member
Leunam said:
Something for any newcomers to the sport (like me).

Getting to grips with a Formula One steering wheel

35n0hw0.jpg
i knew this looked familiar
35n0hw06prf.jpg

actually the F1 "Controller" looks even worse :lol
 

DrM

Redmond's Baby
Reason for Lewis podium sadface is revealed. Register on Formula1.com, and go to race edits.

Team - "Lewis we need you to save fuel. Both cars doing the same."

Lewis - "Jenson is closing in on me you guys."

Team - "Understood Lewis."

Lewis - "If I back off is Jenson going to pass me or not?"

Team - "No Lewis, No."
 

spyshagg

Should not be allowed to breed
lol riiiiiight. that wasn't an overtaking attempt at all. Button was just caring for the spectators.
 

markao

Member
DrM said:
Reason for Lewis podium sadface is revealed. Register on Formula1.com, and go to race edits.
Thanks m8, was wondering what that was all about after the race with Lewis.

Curious if they told Jenson the same on the radio (doubt it), if not team miscommunication almost could have cost McLaren the race to.
 

DrM

Redmond's Baby
It seems like they edited it in this manner to generate some more buzz among fans. I would like to hear communication with Jenson and his crew.
 

Dead Man

Member
Source

Christian Horner has revealed that Red Bull will only stick with Renault engines next season if they are brought up to par with the rivals' power units.

Despite being granted permission by the FIA to make some changes to their engines based on "cost and reliability reasons", Renault were only allowed to improve the reliability of their engines, not the actual power.

As such, the French manufacturer's units are believed to down on power by roughly 30BHP compared to the likes of Mercedes. And unless motorsport's governing body allows them to reach a par with their rivals, Red Bull may opt to switch supplies next season.

"Renault as a partner are an excellent partner to work with, we have absolutely parity with the Enstone team," Horner told Autosport.

"The problem is, as it always has been, that under the current regulations, the way that the freeze currently is, you freeze in advantages and disadvantages, and you might think it is ironic that I sit here talking about an engine disadvantage despite having six pole positions and three wins.

"But I think it demonstrates the job the guys are doing with the chassis, they are doing a phenomenal job at the moment because we probably are 20-30bhp down on the class of the field.

"While we enjoy a chassis advantage at the moment, that might not be the case in two or three races times, and then the engine becomes a determining factor, and once you have frozen a product to freeze an advantage or a disadvantage for a three or four years period is unfair.

"The manufacturers need to get together among themselves and agree a formula to move forward."
 

navanman

Crown Prince of Custom Firmware
They said the EXACT same thing last year when Brawn were whipping everyone's ass at the start of last season.

Now that McLaren are starting to put the pressure on, they are saying it all over again.
 

shas'la

Member
Running out of engine suppliers as well, which is a bit shit. Merc, Renault, Ferrari and Cosworth.. just to think 2 seasons ago we also had BMW, Honda, and Toyota.
 
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