Support NeoGAF

[Crazymoogle]

Hope you get your pc fixed, I hate unknown errors.

I just thought of something rather important if I am installing Win7 RC, do I use their stock drivers for my gtx 260 or should I download the vista drivers (since win7 is like vista) ?

Vista drivers should include the Windows 7 drivers, though I do think they have some Windows 7 specific package now.

 

[Ryu1999]

Vista drivers should include the Windows 7 drivers, though I do think they have some Windows 7 specific package now.

Windows 7 specific package was completely borked for me. Hope they work for you

 

[Hazaro]

That can't be the only problem, can it?
EDIT: Or does the RAM screw up the other tests?

EDIT #2:
I'm on the RMA page for the RAM and it looks like my only option from DirectCanada is a refund. Should I repurchase the same model or go with something else?

I'd personally get some G.Skill or Corsair, but get whatever good brand you can have a long warranty / refund period with.

And yeah, the CPU tests involve memory testing which is why they are failing. You can switch the test to almost CPU only to see if it fails slower, but with over 500 errors you should really be RMA'ing.

Heck I'd RMA with just 2.

*Actually try bumping the voltage up a notch or 2 on the RAM and see if that fixes it. (Or if you can get a refund and buy some RAM and have money left over that is good too)

 

[Slavik81]

It passes Memtest (no errors) at 1066MHz. That's not the 1600 it says it should operate at, but it'll be ok for the moment. I'll probably RMA it over the days I'll be gone for GDC Canada.

Thanks, guys.

Hope you get your pc fixed, I hate unknown errors.

I just thought of something rather important if I am installing Win7 RC, do I use their stock drivers for my gtx 260 or should I download the vista drivers (since win7 is like vista) ?

I'm using the Win7 Beta drivers without GPU issues, though I've heard the Vista drivers are better.

 

[Bebpo]

What's a good monitor for <$200 for strictly old pre-widescreen era games? My 17" NEC monitor is ok, but it's got a 26ms response time and the contrast ratio is only 450:1. I find it a little hard to play dark games and usually have to put the brightness up in game. About time to upgrade to a newer monitor.

I'm not going to watch blu-rays, 1080p videos, or play any games that have a resolution higher than 1280x1024. So I don't need crazy high resolution.

Also needs to have DVI beause my 9800GTX+ won't scale correctly (non-stretch with black bars on the sides) through analogue inputs it seems.

 

[Grayman]

Sounds like you want a used CRT from a garage sale or PC shop



Question unrelated to the above:
Is Source really CPU bound so I would need to overclock my 2.5ghz dual core to get more than 30 fps in a firefight of tf2? I have a GTX260, detail up and down doesn't change much, ironically my 5 year old PC had the same problem

 

[Labombadog]

Sounds like you want a used CRT from a garage sale or PC shop



Question unrelated to the above:
Is Source really CPU bound so I would need to overclock my 2.5ghz dual core to get more than 30 fps in a firefight of tf2? I have a GTX260, detail up and down doesn't change much, ironically my 5 year old PC had the same problem

That's really odd. Even at that speed you should be getting above 80fps even during firefights.

What drivers do you currently have?

My dual core @ 3.2ghz and a 4850 I get 70+ FPS even during firefights.

edit: Also, what res are you playing on?

 

[Grayman]

That's really odd. Even at that speed you should be getting above 80fps even during firefights.

What drivers do you currently have?

My dual core @ 3.2ghz and a 4850 I get 70+ FPS even during firefights.

185.81_geforce_win7_64bit_english_beta
GPU-Z says nvlddmkm 8.15.11.8581 (ForceWare 185.81) / [cuts it off here]

1280x1024, old monitor. I may have even turned it down to 1024x768

 

[Hazaro]

Sounds like you want a used CRT from a garage sale or PC shop



Question unrelated to the above:
Is Source really CPU bound so I would need to overclock my 2.5ghz dual core to get more than 30 fps in a firefight of tf2? I have a GTX260, detail up and down doesn't change much, ironically my 5 year old PC had the same problem

It's i7 CPU bound at 1680x1050 at max graphics settings when it hits 160 fps.

So no.

 

[Labombadog]

185.81_geforce_win7_64bit_english_beta
GPU-Z says nvlddmkm 8.15.11.8581 (ForceWare 185.81) / [cuts it off here]

1280x1024, old monitor. I may have even turned it down to 1024x768

Did you by chance had a previous GPU before this one, and didn't do a driver cleaning?

 

[Grayman]

Did you by chance had a previous GPU before this one, and didn't do a driver cleaning?

no brand new system. I did try to remove the default drivers win7 used fully but it auto installed them on reboot, I installed the current ones ontop, but that may even be the same set.

 

[Grayman]

going to download DMC4 benchmark to get an idea of if it is just source or other games. My internet is too slow to get something else before tomorrow.

 

[Hazaro]

going to download DMC4 benchmark to get an idea of if it is just source or other games. My internet is too slow to get something else before tomorrow.

Oh you meant you ARE getting 30fps?

Check vSync for starters then use CPU-Z or GPU-Z to check if your PCI-E bandwidth is at 16x bandwidth.

 

[Grayman]

yes that is right it falls to around 30fps in combat, it goes high in spawn areas and commentary mode. Vsync was set off.

Bus Interfare: PCI-E 2.0 x16 @ x16 2.0

I could couldn't manage to get DMC4 test below a minimum of 115fps(all super high, tried 16x alphabet aa and 8x normal)

 

[Hazaro]

yes that is right it falls to around 30fps in combat, it goes high in spawn areas and commentary mode. Vsync was set off.

Bus Interfare: PCI-E 2.0 x16 @ x16 2.0

I could couldn't manage to get DMC4 test below a minimum of 115fps(all super high, tried 16x alphabet aa and 8x normal)

Interesting, 2.5 should be more than plenty, check if multi-core is on or off and toggle that.

 

[Grayman]

I'll give that a try after work tomorrow. I only do it in the game right? there is no OS setting hidden anywhere?

 

[Hazaro]

I'll give that a try after work tomorrow. I only do it in the game right? there is no OS setting hidden anywhere?

Yup, should be under advanced options in L4D / TF2

 

[EviLore]

btw

 

[Hazaro]

btw


http://www.abjecthubris.com/images/taskmanager.jpg[img]

:D[/QUOTE]
2GB idle? What are you doing?

Also you haven't posted pictures yet!

 

[TheHeretic]

2GB idle? What are you doing?

Also you haven't posted pictures yet!

I idle at 1gb on Windows 7 with 4gb of RAM. Its a fresh install so super fetch will probably fill it up as time goes on.

 

[Crazymoogle]

Daaaaayumn.

SSD is pretty fast. Control Panel loads faster than a regular explorer window used to. From boot to fully operational Win7 RC is about 20 seconds according to iPhone stopwatch, and the Win7 RC install was clocked at ten minutes.

FYI

Windows Performance Information:
Primary hard disk: 7.1 :lol

 

[EviLore]

Windows Performance Information:
Primary hard disk: 7.1 :lol

Yeah, my velociraptor gets a 5.9. Pretty funny on both counts.

 

[Crazymoogle]

Yeah, my velociraptor gets a 5.9. Pretty funny on both counts.

Yeah, the VR is no slouch. Are you using the 2.5" 10k RPM one?

Interestingly enough, RC said my video card was a 6.9, when I think it was 7.x before. Not sure what happened there, may try it again another time. (GTX285). Wow though, RC is great - Windows update managed to get my chipset drivers and video drivers on its own (W7 beta was not so hot on either account.) It's going to take a little while before the SSD as my primary rig, but hopefully I can check out L4D tomorrow.

 

[Lime]

I am thinking about upgrading my computer. My current build is:

Athlon X2 4200+
2GB PC3200 RAM
7800GT

Evidently it isn't good enough at all. I am therefore thinking of upgrading to either a dual core E8400 or the new i7 processor. Only difference is price. I'm also wondering whether or not it is smartest to buy 2 relatively cheap graphic cards (SLI/Crossfire) or buy a single GTX260.

So my questions are:

- Would it be most wise to buy a i7 setup, despite the cheaper price on a E8400 setup? The price difference is around 2000 DKR (around $360 or £230).
- How much will the price of x58 motherboards and the i7 decrease after the early adopters have bought the new technology? (let's say Late Summer/Fall '09)
- And is it most prudent to buy a single good graphics card, like the GTX260, or to buy two less capable graphics card and do the SLI/Crossfire thingy?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Minsc]

Hard for me to grasp what the HDD performance numbers translate to because I haven't seen enough ratings, but I'm wondering what criteria it's based on and if it scales properly or if there's some kinda of upper ceiling on it.

I mean would it give a RAID 0 Vertex at double the speed of your 7.1 score a 14 or more of a 7.5, despite being twice as fast?

Probably easier to look something like the following up and get a sense of the scaling, would it give a GTX 260 a high score like a 5 or 6, and then a card that destroys it, like a 295 a 7 or 8? Just a point or two higher? Or would it be in the teens?

 

[zbarron]

Sounds like you want a used CRT from a garage sale or PC shop



Question unrelated to the above:
Is Source really CPU bound so I would need to overclock my 2.5ghz dual core to get more than 30 fps in a firefight of tf2? I have a GTX260, detail up and down doesn't change much, ironically my 5 year old PC had the same problem

My last CPU was an E6550 C2D overclocked to 2.9Ghz. I got down to about 30fps in firefights. Now that I upgraded to an i7 I get a flawless 60. This is Vista 64.

 

[TheHeretic]

I am thinking about upgrading my computer. My current build is:

Athlon X2 4200+
2GB PC3200 RAM
7800GT

Evidently it isn't good enough at all. I am therefore thinking of upgrading to either a dual core E8400 or the new i7 processor. Only difference is price. I'm also wondering whether or not it is smartest to buy 2 relatively cheap graphic cards (SLI/Crossfire) or buy a single GTX260.

So my questions are:

- Would it be most wise to buy a i7 setup, despite the cheaper price on a E8400 setup? The price difference is around 2000 DKR (around $360 or £230).
- How much will the price of x58 motherboards and the i7 decrease after the early adopters have bought the new technology? (let's say Late Summer/Fall '09)
- And is it most prudent to buy a single good graphics card, like the GTX260, or to buy two less capable graphics card and do the SLI/Crossfire thingy?

Thanks in advance.

As someone with a Quad Core it hasn't really paid off yet at all. Most games use two cores and almost all games are GPU limited anyway. I'd go with an AMD 720 which has 3 cores and is about the some price as a E8400. i7 will give you better longevity but you have to live with the fact that the money you are spending now isn't really going anywhere with X58 - i7 - DDR3, they don't do much for games at all. Buying for the future in the PC market is a pretty bad idea generally but if you have money to throw around you might consider it.

One good graphics card is better than Xfire/SLi. Two GPU's can cause problems, not all games work well with the technology and the market right now has very capable single GPU solutions. If you want upgradeability you might get an SLi motherboard with only one GTX 260, for example, so later on you can add another when they are much cheaper.

As for future pricing who knows, i7 will probably come down but if you want to play that game you might as well wait for the next batch of GPU's. Then you are waiting for the improved versions. Then new CPU's are announced: and so on. It can go on forever, nows a good enough time to be buying so making the plunge won't burn you too badly (though we all get burned eventually).

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

btw

I hate you so much... It's people like you who make me want to build a whole new system.

Edit: If it's alright, can you say how much you spent on your new rig? I'm interested in how much it would cost me to build a new machine.

 

[rohlfinator]

- Would it be most wise to buy a i7 setup, despite the cheaper price on a E8400 setup? The price difference is around 2000 DKR (around $360 or £230).
- How much will the price of x58 motherboards and the i7 decrease after the early adopters have bought the new technology? (let's say Late Summer/Fall '09)
- And is it most prudent to buy a single good graphics card, like the GTX260, or to buy two less capable graphics card and do the SLI/Crossfire thingy?

i7 is designed as an enthusiast part, so it's going to stay relatively expensive. I wouldn't expect the processors or motherboards to drop too significantly over the next six months -- although DDR3 is dropping in price more quickly. If you want to wait, your best bet will probably be the i5, which will be mainstream-oriented and should be closer to Core 2/Phenom II pricing, and it's expected to be out by the end of the year.

Also, in addition to what TheHeretic said about the X3 720, AMD is planning to support that socket type for a while longer, so you could upgrade the processor down the road without switching motherboards. If you bought an E8400, your only upgrade options would be other Core 2 Duos or Quads.

 

[gregor7777]

btw

They'll have to redesign the resource monitor when we hit 16+ cores. :lol Good lord.

 

[Minsc]

They'll have to redesign the resource monitor when we hit 16+ cores. :lol Good lord.

256 cores.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

256 cores.

:lol It makes it even crazier that it's at 91% AND has 256 cores. Damn...

 

[gregor7777]

256 cores.

Sometime between now and when we're more likely to see machines with this level of parallelism it might be an appropriate area for some UI redesign. I don't know many IT administrators or developers that have a 30" LCD monitor, okay I know one and it isn't me unfortunately.

Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 group logical processors into sub groups and it would therefore make sense that the task manager be redesigned to show the performance of processors by group. Without which you'll definitely need a 30" LCD. That said however, if you can afford a 256 logical processor machine then you'll probably be able to find a few extra dollars for a large display.

Guess he was thinking along the same lines. :lol

Anyone have any htop screens with a silly amount of cores?

I think even that would have to be redesigned. All the processes would be WAY down the screen. :lol

 

[deadatom]

when is cell based computers coming out?

 

[Cheeto]

when is cell based computers coming out?

www.ibm.com

 

[TheHeretic]

when is cell based computers coming out?

Never?

 

[gregor7777]

when is cell based computers coming out?

For general use? Likely never, or at least, not anytime soon.

Linux runs on it though.

 

[derder]

I bought my ps3 from one of the guys who worked on the cell processor. He said that they'd be used in desktops in 3 years. This was in 2007.

 

[gregor7777]

I bought my ps3 from one of the guys who worked on the cell processor. He said that they'd be used in desktops in 3 years. This was in 2007.

The introduction of an entirely new architecture in mainstream PCs is an EXTREMELY slow process. Perhaps even nigh impossible these days given how entrenched x86 is.

He was just hoping, or delusional. Or speaking about extreme cases.

 

[derder]

The introduction of an entirely new architecture in mainstream PCs is an EXTREMELY slow process. Perhaps even nigh impossible these days given how entrenched x86 is.

He was just hoping, or delusional. Or speaking about extreme cases.

He probably has since worked his way up from IBM to Sony PR. :lol

 

[larvi]

What's a good monitor for <$200 for strictly old pre-widescreen era games? My 17" NEC monitor is ok, but it's got a 26ms response time and the contrast ratio is only 450:1. I find it a little hard to play dark games and usually have to put the brightness up in game. About time to upgrade to a newer monitor.

I'm not going to watch blu-rays, 1080p videos, or play any games that have a resolution higher than 1280x1024. So I don't need crazy high resolution.

Also needs to have DVI beause my 9800GTX+ won't scale correctly (non-stretch with black bars on the sides) through analogue inputs it seems.

If you don't want to go the CRT route you could pick up a 19" 4:3 LCD monitor that should meet your needs as well. Something like this on Newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254013

I bought something similar for both my kids and they work well for their needs.

 

[Lime]

As someone with a Quad Core it hasn't really paid off yet at all. Most games use two cores and almost all games are GPU limited anyway. I'd go with an AMD 720 which has 3 cores and is about the some price as a E8400. i7 will give you better longevity but you have to live with the fact that the money you are spending now isn't really going anywhere with X58 - i7 - DDR3, they don't do much for games at all. Buying for the future in the PC market is a pretty bad idea generally but if you have money to throw around you might consider it.

One good graphics card is better than Xfire/SLi. Two GPU's can cause problems, not all games work well with the technology and the market right now has very capable single GPU solutions. If you want upgradeability you might get an SLi motherboard with only one GTX 260, for example, so later on you can add another when they are much cheaper.

As for future pricing who knows, i7 will probably come down but if you want to play that game you might as well wait for the next batch of GPU's. Then you are waiting for the improved versions. Then new CPU's are announced: and so on. It can go on forever, nows a good enough time to be buying so making the plunge won't burn you too badly (though we all get burned eventually).

Thanks so much for the reply. I'll already theorized on a computer with AM3 and a Phenom II 720, plus a HD4890 for almost the same price as a E8400 build.

 

[Crazymoogle]

Hard for me to grasp what the HDD performance numbers translate to because I haven't seen enough ratings, but I'm wondering what criteria it's based on and if it scales properly or if there's some kinda of upper ceiling on it.

Well the Windows Performance Index system caps at 7.9 right now so I feel like it just gets much harder to go up decimal points. It's not really a very thorough benchmark or anything. (In fact that's why I tried it. No point in smashing your thoroughput by running ATTO or Crystalmark unless you really want to confirm the 200MB/s transfer numbers.)

Anyway, installation was seamless. It turns out my drive shipped with the latest firmware, and Windows 7 had absolutely no problems finding the drive as a boot drive on RC or as a new device on an existing installation on Beta.

 

[MiniDitka]

A couple question that I hope you guys can help me with.

1. If I were looking for a decent upgrade from an AMD 64 X2 4200+ 939(Winchester) what would be the best bang for my buck. It would be used mostly for video editing and the occasional game.

2. Can memory go bad and could that or hard drive problem cause computer shut downs. Just about everyday when I'm doing a couple things at once, usually when I have windows open and have either WMP running or editing video my computer will shut down. Anyone have an idea what it could be or how I could go about finding the problem?

 

[bigmit3737]

So I just purchased a G5 mouse for $45.

I have never had a decent mouse or keyboard, so I am hoping to really feel a difference comfort wise.

 

[Minsc]

A couple question that I hope you guys can help me with.

1. If I were looking for a decent upgrade from an AMD 64 X2 4200+ 939(Winchester) what would be the best bang for my buck. It would be used mostly for video editing and the occasional game.

2. Can memory go bad and could that or hard drive problem cause computer shut downs. Just about everyday when I'm doing a couple things at once, usually when I have windows open and have either WMP running or editing video my computer will shut down. Anyone have an idea what it could be or how I could go about finding the problem?

Memory can definitely go bad, both system memory and gpu memory (as happened to my gpu). There are tools you can test your computer with that are in the OP under the Utilities section, like Prime95, Memtest, and others.

 

[John_B]

Memtest86 for testing RAM. It's very accurate.

If you have multiple memory modules installed in the system, an alternative would be to remove the modules one at a time and see if the system becomes stable.

2. Can memory go bad and could that or hard drive problem cause computer shut downs. Just about everyday when I'm doing a couple things at once, usually when I have windows open and have either WMP running or editing video my computer will shut down. Anyone have an idea what it could be or how I could go about finding the problem?

It sounds more like a thermal issue. If you have faulty memory you should see weird shit happening all over the place.

Try to open the case and check if it's filled with dust, proceed to clean it.

 

[Grayman]

A couple question that I hope you guys can help me with.

1. If I were looking for a decent upgrade from an AMD 64 X2 4200+ 939(Winchester) what would be the best bang for my buck. It would be used mostly for video editing and the occasional game.

2. Can memory go bad and could that or hard drive problem cause computer shut downs. Just about everyday when I'm doing a couple things at once, usually when I have windows open and have either WMP running or editing video my computer will shut down. Anyone have an idea what it could be or how I could go about finding the problem?

In my experience bad memory will infact:
blue screen
make apps crash
fuck files

I am not sure about reboots/shutdowns. Does your computer reboot on blue screen?

 

[MiniDitka]

In my experience bad memory will infact:
blue screen
make apps crash
fuck files

I am not sure about reboots/shutdowns. Does your computer reboot on blue screen?

It reboots fine with a "your computer has suffered a major hardware failure" or something along those lines.

Another thing I noticed which might have nothing to do with this is my internet seems a little slower and often when I download a video file it will finish up before the whole thing is downloaded. Also, does anyone have any suggestions concerning my CPU question.

 

[gregor7777]

Power supply not delivering enough juice under high loads could cause random shutdowns also.