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[Keylime]

So let me see if I'm reading this right:

Upgrade Tiger -> Snow Leopard = $169 box set.
Fresh install Snow Leopard = $29 upgrade disk.

...so I'm guessing this means someone with Tiger could just do a full blown new install and only pay $29, but if they want to upgrade (keep all their shit) than they'd have to buy the box set.

If this is the case we may want to add that to the OP so people know there is potentially an option.

 

[LCfiner]

That's really dumb, but I've bought it anyway.

I really don't get what the big deal is with people upset or annoyed by the Mac box set.

if someone were on tiger and upgraded to 10.5 in the last 2 years, it costs 130 bucks. and then an additional 30 for the SL upgrade this week. this box set is costing the consumer nearly the same as the Tiger to Leopard to SL upgrade path only the new iLife and iWork are thrown in for 10 bucks.

 

[celebi23]

So let me see if I'm reading this right:

Upgrade Tiger -> Snow Leopard = $169 box set.
Fresh install Snow Leopard = $29 upgrade disk.

...so I'm guessing this means someone with Tiger could just do a full blown new install and only pay $29, but if they want to upgrade (keep all their shit) than they'd have to buy the box set.

If this is the case we may want to add that to the OP so people know there is potentially an option.

I would but, I think you'll need the Leopard disc in order to use the normal $30 disc. I think it requires it for some kind of verification before allowing you to do a fresh install. I've been trying to find some final answer on the subject but no one really knows for sure. Hell, I've asked people @ 1-800-MY-APPLE & even they aren't 100% sure. Once a definitive answer is known, I'll add that info to the OP.

 

[giga]

Please no more discussion or asking this question: you can absolutely do an install on a blank hdd with the upgrade disc. There is nothing to figure out. LKbap answered this pages ago.

Direct me to this post.

 

[Keylime]

I would but, I think you'll need the Leopard disc in order to use the normal $30 disc. I think it requires it for some kind of verification before allowing you to do a fresh install. I've been trying to find some final answer on the subject but no one really knows for sure. Hell, I've asked people @ 1-800-MY-APPLE & even they aren't 100% sure. Once a definitive answer is known, I'll add that info to the OP.

Agreed, nothing should be added to the OP until we know for sure.

If I had Tiger I would at least want to know my options before I pulled the trigger, and right now there is only one answer that seems definitive from Apple.

 

[celebi23]

Agreed, nothing should be added to the OP until we know for sure.

If I had Tiger I would at least want to know my options before I pulled the trigger, and right now there is only one answer that seems definitive from Apple.

Yeah, it kinda does suck. Probably gonna go to my local Apple Store on Friday & get the Family Pack. I mean, it's only $50. Far less than previous Family Packs have been

 

[Jal]

Just noticed my ship date changed from september to by August 28th for the uptodate disc, WOOHOO!

 

[celebi23]

Just noticed my ship date changed from september to by August 28th for the uptodate disc,
WOOHOO!

Yeah, same thing happened to me yesterday I'm getting pumped. Damn my sister for getting a new laptop. Looks like I might get the family pack for the other 3 computers in my family's house

 

[Slurpy]

Yeah, I always wondered why they kept those neon blue candycane scrollbars after every other part of the interface was pretty much replaced. The iTunes bars look wonderful, but these geniuses of design don't care about such an obvious oversight, just making those the default? Weird.

The crazy thing is that people bitched about them when Leopard was released, and those who apologized for Apple said that they probably didn't have 'time' to change them or whatnot, especially since the Ilife bars were changed and it was assumed the scrollbars would follow suit. Here we are 2 years later, with a new OS release that doesn't really offer new features for the average end-user, did they still not have 'time' to change them?

I wasn't asking or expecting a visual overhaul here. I was just expecting that optimizing snow leopard would also include them replacing the ugliest and oldest elements in the interface. And no, it wouldn't be a difficult job, the proof being that you can do it yourself in ~ 2 min by replacing a couple files. They recoded the whole OS and didnt bother to get rid of this shit? The style clashes with every single theme they've had in the past several years. And yes, it would have been a trivial fix, and what makes me dumbfounded is trying to figure out their philosophy and decision making mentality in leaving these almost criminal looking monstrosities completely untouched for the past 8 years- especially when they replace stuff with awkward looking,questionable pseudo 3d stuff (ie. the dock), and useless views and animations, which obviously take alot more time to develop and implement, while skipping the obvious. They stripped all traces of aqua from their websites years so, and theres absolutely no trace of it in the mobile UIs. Yet they couldnt be bothered to do the same for their flagship OS which runs on their most expensive machines. The unbearable part is that every single window is infected with these bars, and I cant use the os without constantly being reminded of this. I feel like I want to physically slice off the right hand side of the screen or something.

Buying SL was a no-brainer for me. Their laziness and negligence towards their interface now makes me want to pirate the software. Its like if Windows 7 still used the 3.1 scrollbars, except those werent nearly as ugly.

 

[Phobophile]

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

jesus

does it really bother you that much? I have them and I don't really care about them either way.

 

[pj]

If it takes two minutes to fix it yourself why are you so butt hurt?

 

[celebi23]

GUI rant

Honestly, I think Apple is waiting until 10.7 to unify their interface with the new GUI "Marble". It was heavily rumored to be included in Snow Leopard. Hell, it was even rumored to be included in Leopard but it was then known as “Illuminous". It's looking like 10.7 might be huge.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...veiling_guarded_snow_leopard_ui_overhaul.html

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/13/snow-leopard-to-bring-unifying-marble-user-interface/

http://daringfireball.net/2009/01/macworld_expo_predictions

http://www.macrumors.com/2006/12/11/aqua-to-see-leopard-refresh/

If it takes two minutes to fix it yourself why are you so butt hurt?

Oh & QFT

 

[Phobophile]

If it takes two minutes to fix it yourself why are you so butt hurt?

I don't think the hack will continue to work in 10.6.

 

[Septimus]

Hey, hardware experts, I have a question for you. So I just got a 13.3" MacBook Pro last week (you know, the 2.26 c2d, 2gb ddr3 ram) and was wondering would it be wise to go from 2gb ddr3 ram to 4gb ddr2? What are the benefits and such of ddr3 in OS X?

 

[panda21]

well they clearly are working on the UI because they made some enormous changes towards 'pro/ilife/itunes'-ifying in the dock/expose menus, it but left the most glaring omission that would take a few minutes of work to fix still in?! its insane!

now we are left with something even more inconsistent than before. if they had left the menus alone and just finally fixed the scroll bars and x_+ stuff and added the new expose it would look really good.

 

[Jasoco]

God damn you. I thought that was a real scrollbar. :lol I thought your avatar area was too big for the table cell.

But I see what you are getting at. Aqua is so old, and slowly dying, but not fast enough. I prefer the matte plastic looks of things like the menus and other kinds of buttons. But the glassy blue Aqua is just so 2001.

Can't wait for the first Extras2.rsrc replacement that makes the scrollbars more like iTunes and iPhoto.

And when Apple replaces them system-wide they can stop putting custom scrollbar resources in the app bundles.

 

[TriSwords]

Hey, hardware experts, I have a question for you. So I just got a 13.3" MacBook Pro last week (you know, the 2.26 c2d, 2gb ddr3 ram) and was wondering would it be wise to go from 2gb ddr3 ram to 4gb ddr2? What are the benefits and such of ddr3 in OS X?

DDR2 ram will not fit in a DDR3 slot and vice versa.

 

[Slurpy]

well they clearly are working on the UI because they made some enormous changes towards 'pro/ilife/itunes'-ifying in the dock/expose menus, it but left the most glaring omission that would take a few minutes of work to fix still in?! its insane!

now we are left with something even more inconsistent than before. if they had left the menus alone and just finally fixed the scroll bars and x_+ stuff and added the new expose it would look really good.

True. I just don't see how someone at Apple thought changing the dock menus (which look good, but which are now different than any other context menu in the OS) would be a priority over finally updating the scrollbars to something that even somewhat matches the rest of the OS. You'd think they would take a hint from all the tutorials online that tell you how to replace the scrollbars. I haven't seen any of these for context menus.

 

[overthehill99]

Is Apple giving out free T-Shirts again?

 

[celebi23]

Is Apple giving out free T-Shirts again?

Not sure. Might call my local Apple Store tomorrow to find out.

 

[LCfiner]

True. I just don't see how someone at Apple thought changing the dock menus (which look good, but which are now different than any other context menu in the OS) would be a priority over finally updating the scrollbars to something that even somewhat matches the rest of the OS. You'd think they would take a hint from all the tutorials online that tell you how to replace the scrollbars. I haven't seen any of these for context menus.

I think it might show how the different OS groups may be isolated.

arguably, the new Dock context menus are more consistent as they now match the translucent black background introduced in stacks in 10.5. so now all dock menus, stacks or contextual items, are the same.

however, that decision seems to have been made in complete isolation from the rest of the UI. so scrollbars remain gaudy and shiny and all other menus remain white (which I'm fine with).

or maybe, just maybe, there's someone high up at Apple who really, really likes those damn shiny scrollbars and won't let them go :lol

 

[Septimus]

DDR2 ram will not fit in a DDR3 slot and vice versa.

Lol thanks, that settles that! Seems 4gb (2gbx2) of DDR3 is like 90 bucks CDN as the cheapest right now. I'll wait for a sale or prices to come down.

 

[pj]

I don't think the hack will continue to work in 10.6.

Well the hackers will obviously have to recompile the jpgs in 64bit...

Seriously though, I guarantee there will be a SL scrollbar hack on the 29th

 

[Jasoco]

Well the hackers will obviously have to recompile the jpgs in 64bit...

Seriously though, I guarantee there will be a SL scrollbar hack on the 29th

That's the way I see it. Hackers are pretty stubborn. They stop at nothing to get their OS to work/look how they want even if they have to learn a whole new system to do it.

I'd rather use a hacked RSRC file that just changes a few things I don't like than have to pay for a theming program and possibly use a hack to get the theme looking different. (Unsanity)

 

[panda21]

I think it might show how the different OS groups may be isolated.

arguably, the new Dock context menus are more consistent as they now match the translucent black background introduced in stacks in 10.5. so now all dock menus, stacks or contextual items, are the same.

however, that decision seems to have been made in complete isolation from the rest of the UI. so scrollbars remain gaudy and shiny and all other menus remain white (which I'm fine with).

or maybe, just maybe, there's someone high up at Apple who really, really likes those damn shiny scrollbars and won't let them go :lol

i guess it makes sense that they have to have different teams, but i would of assumed they were just doing coding, and the overall UI specs were decided by a single unified HCI team designing the whole thing, because its mostly very good.

what you say makes sense though because it does fit very well with the new dock/dock expose, its just not so much with anything else :lol but hopefully if we see a big redesign it will be unified again

 

[LCfiner]

i guess it makes sense that they have to have different teams, but i would of assumed they were just doing coding, and the overall UI specs were decided by a single unified HCI team designing the whole thing, because its mostly very good.

what you say makes sense though because it does fit very well with the new dock/dock expose, its just not so much with anything else :lol but hopefully if we see a big redesign it will be unified again

once would think that, yes. buuut, it took ages for the UI to even have the level of consistency found in Leopard. Panther and Tiger were even less consistent and that lasted for years. mail UI was different from the Finder which was different from Safari (brushed metal) which was different from iTunes.

Apple generally does a good job with their designs but the level of GUI wonkiness seen in OS X the last 4 or 5 years suggests that the UI group either doesn't have a complete grasp of the situation or their attention is divided.

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

iLeopard gives the whole system the iTunes 7 look and is not a hack, so the speed doesn't take a hit. Hopefully it gets fixed for SL soon.

 

[Particle Physicist]

the up-to-date link thing isnt working for me. when i click it and log in, it just goes to an empty shopping cart.

:/

 

[Ashhong]

I was able to install onto a blank HDD from within 10.5.8

if you did it from 10.5.8 how was it blank? im confused

the up-to-date link thing isnt working for me. when i click it and log in, it just goes to an empty shopping cart.

:/

they are in the process of fixing it

 

[NekoFever]

Gah... now that I've checked and found out that my older MacBook Pro is lacking the 64-bit EFI and doesn't support OpenCL or H.264 GPU acceleration I'm tempted to look into upgrading.

I told myself that I wouldn't do it until I could get a MBP with an internal BD drive, but I might seriously look at it whenever the next speed bump/refresh happens.

 

[Jasoco]

iLeopard gives the whole system the iTunes 7 look and is not a hack, so the speed doesn't take a hit. Hopefully it gets fixed for SL soon.

This is what I am looking forward to.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Gah... now that I've checked and found out that my older MacBook Pro is lacking the 64-bit EFI and doesn't support OpenCL or H.264 GPU acceleration I'm tempted to look into upgrading.

how do you check this?

 

[mrkgoo]

I really don't get what the big deal is with people upset or annoyed by the Mac box set.

if someone were on tiger and upgraded to 10.5 in the last 2 years, it costs 130 bucks. and then an additional 30 for the SL upgrade this week. this box set is costing the consumer nearly the same as the Tiger to Leopard to SL upgrade path only the new iLife and iWork are thrown in for 10 bucks.

I understand the annoyance. When you buy new software, few companies ever charge for all the updates prior.

Still the macbox is a great deal. For $40 you're gettin either iWork or iLife for half the price and the other for free.

 

[Burger]

Gah... now that I've checked and found out that my older MacBook Pro is lacking the 64-bit EFI and doesn't support OpenCL or H.264 GPU acceleration I'm tempted to look into upgrading.

I told myself that I wouldn't do it until I could get a MBP with an internal BD drive, but I might seriously look at it whenever the next speed bump/refresh happens.

Why do you need OpenCL or hardware video acceleration ? (or a 64-bit EFI for that matter?)

 

[Burger]

how do you check this?

In terminal type:

ioreg -l -p IODeviceTree | grep firmware-abi

Seriously though. You don't need to be booting into a 64 bit kernel to enjoy the benefits of Snow Leopard.

 

[Jasoco]

Why do you need OpenCL or hardware video acceleration ? (or a 64-bit EFI for that matter?)

You don't. But it's nice to have.

I'm saving up for a new 13" MBP. I'm halfway there. I'm looking forward to it.

But Snow Leopard is nice even on a machine that can't run the 64-bit kernel and OpenCL.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Transmission is 64-bit now. Starts up fast. I'm liking this Snow Leopard thing.

 

[SnakeXs]

Transmission is 64-bit now. Starts up fast. I'm liking this Snow Leopard thing.

Fuck I coulda swore I posted this last night. Guess I forgot. It is indeed very nice.

I'm still curious about what OpenCL will provide, practically. Obviously harnessing GPUs is great and all, but what sorts of things will actually benefit. I also posed the question of heat and battery life a while ago.

Ah well, days away, and years to enjoy apps benefitting from SL's paved road.

 

[Burger]

But Snow Leopard is nice even on a machine that can't run the 64-bit kernel and OpenCL.

Is nice ? I think you mean 'The Same'

Pray tell what benefits a 64 bit kernel bring the average user ? What OpenCL apps are people going to be running ?

 

[SnakeXs]

Is nice ? I think you mean 'The Same'

Pray tell what benefits a 64 bit kernel bring the average user ? What OpenCL apps are people going to be running ?

99% of users won't even be using the 64 bit kernel. SL's advances is making most of the core processes and apps 64 bit, and nearly everyone who's used it has mentioned how peppy it feels.

 

[celebi23]

In terminal type:

ioreg -l -p IODeviceTree | grep firmware-abi

Seriously though. You don't need to be booting into a 64 bit kernel to enjoy the benefits of Snow Leopard.

Just tried that & I got this:

"firmware-abi" = <"EFI32">

Sonofabitch >_< I've got a MacBook Pro (15-inch Core 2 Duo) 2.33 GHz 2GB RAM


edit: did some researching & I never knew my model MBP could have up to 3GB of RAM

fuck & @ $50, it's quite a steal @ OWC

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/53IM2DDR3GBK/

Just a quick question to other Mac users, is it ok to have (1) 1GB & (1) 2GB instead of say (1) 2GB & (1) 2GB (matching memory sticks) ? That's what this 3GB RAM upgrade kit entails, 1GB & 2GB sticks

 

[Jasoco]

I thought unmatched pairs was slower.

I've been curious too. It's the reason I got two 1GB for my 2007 MacBook instead of a 1 and 2.

 

[Firestorm]

I thought unmatched pairs was slower.

I've been curious too. It's the reason I got two 1GB for my 2007 MacBook instead of a 1 and 2.

More RAM will outweigh any slight speed advantages of running in dual channel or RAM latency or anything else.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I just got a pair of 2 GBs for my old MacBook. Runs fine, maxes out at a little over 3 GB. RAM is cheap.

 

[celebi23]

I thought unmatched pairs was slower.

I've been curious too. It's the reason I got two 1GB for my 2007 MacBook instead of a 1 and 2.

I might give AppleCare a call tomorrow & ask (hey, I've got free phone support until February so, I might as well use it, right? :lol )

I just got a pair of 2 GBs for my old MacBook. Runs fine, maxes out at a little over 3 GB. RAM is cheap.

Hrm, yeah, I saw that my MBP can have 4GB installed but only 3GB used.

If that's the case, I'm debating between
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/53IM2DDR4GBK//

and

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/53C4DDR2P4GB/

Would love to get a memory upgrade shortly after upgrading to Snow Leopard. My MBP has been feeling a little sluggish lately. Nothing major, just kinda lost that "new computer" speed

 

[Jasoco]

More RAM will outweigh any slight speed advantages of running in dual channel or RAM latency or anything else.

Oh well, too late now. My new Mac will be capable of 8GB (Though I will be getting 4GB ASAP since, well, 8GB costs more than half the price of the computer. And really, I don't need 8GB.) so it's moot now.

I was told back then that 3GB was slower. Oh well.

 

[Burger]

99% of users won't even be using the 64 bit kernel. SL's advances is making most of the core processes and apps 64 bit, and nearly everyone who's used it has mentioned how peppy it feels.

Err yeah, that's kind of what I've been saying. I don't get why people are freaking out about firmware versions, kernel architecture and OpenCL when the real world impact/applications of any of those things is virtually NIL.

 

[giga]

Obsession with 64-bit kernel continues. Third party 64-bit kext support is very sparse--things like VirtualBox or Logitech Control Center kexts will leave everyone dry.

 

[Firestorm]

What advantages would the 64-bit kernal bring?