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Official March NBA Thread - Kobex Curse Inside
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Loki said:Alas, 'twas not meant to be...
Kobe Bryant:
12-24 FG
13-13 FT
Kobe "I've made more FT's than FG's" Bryant strikes again.Just one game where he scores over 30 with more FG's than FT's is all I'm asking. Just one.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=241112019
7th game of the season. I'm not even gonna bother scrolling down for more. Stop the hate
Moneyhats2k5
Member
Cloudy said:
Bad example Konex. To protect yourself against the haters, you need to pick a game where the Lakers actually won, and Kobe shot OVER 50%. :lol
http://www.nba.com/games/20041216/LALSAC/boxscore.html
10-17 FG
8-10 FT
Suck it down Loki!!
Uh, oh he made the same number of FGs as FT attempts in that one so it doesn't count!!! omglol!!!!
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=241211012
This one might satisfy Loki but he didn't shoot 50% so who knows :lol
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=241211012
This one might satisfy Loki but he didn't shoot 50% so who knows :lol
The point being, that it's an extremely rare occurrence. It's funny that you guys had to go back 3-4 months to find an instance of him hitting more FG's than FG's while scoring a lot of points, when for every other star, it's a nightly occurrence. Doesn't that tell you something? :lol What's that sound I hear? <sluuuuurrrrpppp> Referees am fellating!
Monkeyhats' game is nice (10-17 and 8-10 from the line), but the other ones are still somewhat amusing (32 shots to get 37 points? Pffft. 31 shots to get 41 points? Pffft.). Btw, you guys are lucky that I edited out my "32+" point criteria and changed it to 30 (I was feeling charitable), or else you wouldn't have had any (decent) box scores to speak of! Gfahahaha.
Still, nothing changes the fact that he has way more FT's than FG's made this year, and that, in my opinion, is laughable. Here, look: :lol
It's funny that you guys had to go back 3-4 months to find an instance of him hitting more FG's than FG's while scoring a lot of points, when for every other star, it's a nightly occurrence. Doesn't that tell you something? :lol What's that sound I hear? <sluuuuurrrrpppp> Referees am fellating! Monkeyhats' game is nice (10-17 and 8-10 from the line), but the other ones are still somewhat amusing (32 shots to get 37 points? Pffft. 31 shots to get 41 points? Pffft.). Btw, you guys are lucky that I edited out my "32+" point criteria and changed it to 30 (I was feeling charitable), or else you wouldn't have had any (decent) box scores to speak of! Gfahahaha.
Still, nothing changes the fact that he has way more FT's than FG's made this year, and that, in my opinion, is laughable. Here, look: :lol
The only reason I went back is cos I was looking at the espn sched from top to bottom
Here is the last game he met your "criteria" before he missed 14 games
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=250110016
Just admit you were pwned :lol
Here is the last game he met your "criteria" before he missed 14 games
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=250110016
Just admit you were pwned :lol
Konex, all these games are anomalies in one way or another-- for instance, in this game, he hit 6 threes. Is that common? :lol And, he was barely on the cusp, with 31 points-- he just barely squeaked by.
Face it: Kobe is aided and abetted by the refs because he can't put the ball in the basket at a decent clip, which is why he has made more FT's than FGs this season, which is ridiculous. Btw, if he didn't get so many calls, his FG% would (amazingly) be even lower, as none of those continuation shots are counted if they miss, only if they go in-- so Kobe gets the best of both worlds.
Anyway, back to studying. Enjoy your peculiar superstar.
Face it: Kobe is aided and abetted by the refs because he can't put the ball in the basket at a decent clip, which is why he has made more FT's than FGs this season, which is ridiculous. Btw, if he didn't get so many calls, his FG% would (amazingly
) be even lower, as none of those continuation shots are counted if they miss, only if they go in-- so Kobe gets the best of both worlds. Anyway, back to studying. Enjoy your peculiar superstar.
Loki said:Konex, all these games are anomalies in one way or another-- for instance, in this game, he hit 6 threes. Is that common? :lol And, he was barely on the cusp, with 31 points-- he just barely squeaked by.
Face it: Kobe is aided and abetted by the refs because he can't put the ball in the basket at a decent clip, which is why he has made more FT's than FGs this season, which is ridiculous. Btw, if he didn't get so many calls, his FG% would (amazingly
Anyway, back to studying. Enjoy your peculiar superstar.
:lol
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page3/story?page=dreamday/houston
The link has a video of T-Mac and Roger Clemens hanging out for a day
The link has a video of T-Mac and Roger Clemens hanging out for a day
Ninja Scooter
Member
why the fuck are you so hung up on this, Loki? Points are points. You act like Kobe getting to the FT line is a bad thing, or something to criticize him about. BUT OMG HE ISN'T GETTING TO THE FT LINE AT THE EXACT PERCENTILE THAT JORDAN DID IN 1988 THROUGH 1992 HES OFF BY A TENTH OF A FREE THROW!
Ninja Scooter said:
I'm "hung up on it" because I think it's ludicrous to have a star player (scorer) who has made more FT's than FG's-- I think it says certain things about that player, and it's not "wow, this guy is really good at drawing fouls".
And, believe it or not, Kobe shoots more FT's per game this season (11.25 FT/game) than Jordan ever did except for one season where he averaged 11.8 FT per game-- the season when he averaged 37 ppg (not 27 like Kobe :lol). Moreover, Kobe's FT's constitute 33% of his offense this season as compared to Jordan's 27% that season. Besides that one year, Jordan only averaged > 10 FT's per game once in his career (10.5 per game in '87). And his made FT's were never within 200 of his made FG's on the season, unlike a certain player who shall remain nameless who currently has about 40 more made FT's than FG's.Kobe's a farce-- face it.
Can't put the ball in the hole except when it happens during chance encounters at remote hotels. And even then, he goes for the wrong hole. Ninja Scooter
Member
remind me again why its a bad thing that Kobe gets to the FT line? Other than "HE'S NOT DOING EXACTLY WHAT MICHAEL JORDAN DID EVEN THOUGH IF HE DID ID HATE HIM FOR THAT ANYWAY!" Its like it hurts you that Kobe is getting to the line more than Michael Jordan, when what you fail to realize is that its not even a big deal, and nobody else cares. And im still waiting for you to explain how that makes him a farce.
Ninja Scooter said:
Why? I've already told you-- because I find it funny that he can't score points in the usual manner, which is to put the ball in the basket, and instead relies heavily on FT's. Believe me, if any prominent scorer had more FT's made than FG's, I'd be saying the same thing. You're free to not believe that, but then I guess we'll just have to wait for another player to do it besides Kobe-- but I doubt that'll happen anytime soon, since it's not every day that a FARCE comes along.
Bwahahahaaa.
Ninja Scooter
Member
TUne in next week, kiddies, when Loki criticizes Barry Bonds for having too many walks!
Loki said:Why? I've already told you-- because I find it funny that he can't score points in the usual manner, which is to put the ball in the basket, and instead relies heavily on FT's. Believe me, if any prominent scorer had more FT's made than FG's, I'd be saying the same thing. You're free to not believe that, but then I guess we'll just have to wait for another player to do it besides Kobe-- but I doubt that'll happen anytime soon, since it's not every day that a FARCE comes along.
Bwahahahaaa.
Umm... I more FTs then FGs doesn't mean anything. That just means he plays smarter and get to the foul line. If they didn't double him every time, then maybe there wouldn't be as many fouls. Kobe knows how to draw a foul, it's not his fault the defenders fall for it everytime. He gets defenders for that swing through at least 2 times a game.
retardboy said:
:lol
AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA.
HAHAHAAHHAAHAHAAA.
"Gets doubled every time". :lol You sound like Konex.
Kobe gets "doubled" no more than any other star in the league, period. And yes, I believe that more FT's made than FG's does mean something. Does it mean that you're good at drawing fouls? Perhaps, though you'd be hard-pressed to find an objective fan (read: someone from outside the Konex household) who doesn't think that Kobe gets a lot of phantom calls. What it does mean, however, is that he can't make shots from the field at a decent rate, as evidenced by both the # of FG's he's made as well as his horrible FG%. And, again, that's with the advantage of all the fouls being called (missed attempts when a foul is called don't count as a FGA).
I'll say it again: In my opinion, a top scorer who makes more FT's than FG's is a joke. For all the clowns who complained about Jordan getting phantom calls, well, Jordan never came within 200 FTM's of his FGM's in any season. He got it done the usual way: by putting the ball in the basket. Jordan also averaged around 22% of his offensive output from FT's over his career (and never over 27% for a single season, and that only once), not 33% Like Kobe. Who's getting phantom calls again? I want some consistency from people.
Here's an interesting comparison:
If Shaq made 82% of his FT's (like Kobe does), he still would have never had more FTM's than FGM's. That means that Kobe is getting to the line more than a prime Shaq did (Shaq only shot more FT's per game than Kobe does now once in his career. Shaq. Shaquille O'Neal. Think about that). You mean to tell me that Kobe gets fouled more than Shaq used to? :lol Come on now.
And Kobe's "swing through" move is a joke-- he goes fishing for fouls with that at least twice a game. He looks for it-- he's cheap that way. I remember a game last week on TV where he tried that, lost the ball going up (the defender's arms were straight up and Kobe was fishing for the foul 20 feet out), did the usual Kobe "HEEEEEEYYYY!!" when he lost the ball (which is a strikingly common event, by the way
), and then flipped out on the ref when he didn't blow the whistle. :lol Oh, how amusing it was... Fact: legit players....legit stars....try to get it done by putting the ball in the basket, not by relying on the refs, or, worse, on gimmicks (like his "swing through"). You know who else used to be a little bitch like that? Reggie Miller-- flopper extraordinaire. It's a bitch way to play; sorry if people disagree (Reggie was great in many ways, as is KObe, but it doesn't change the fact that he played like a girl). Why can't Kobe score in the traditional way? Why does he need to be bailed out by refs? Because he can't get it done (see: 41% FG). Don't get me wrong-- Kobe's great at drawing LEGIT fouls, too, as he's very aggressive most times. But if he were getting to the line only as much as he deserves based on the games I've watched (which would be around 9 attempts per game, not 11.25), he'd be averaging around 25 ppg instead of 27-28 or so. That would make him....Latrell Sprewell circa 1996.
Nobody will ever convince me that there is nothing wrong with anyone other than, say, Shaq having more FT's made than FG's. There's no excuse for it. Kobe: a fraud.
Konex said:
I don't mind things like that if they're infrequent occurrences (just like I wouldn't for Kobe), since some days some scorers/slashers can't be contained. When it happens nearly every game, though (and in every game where a player scores 32+), something is wrong. When it happens over the entire season (as with Kobe-- far more FT's made than FG's), something is wrong.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Loki you can't count the number of Laker games you've actually watched this season on one hand, so i don't see where you pull all these assumptions about phantom calls and double teams from.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Loki said:
nobody DESERVES to get to the line. Either you do or you don't. Like i said, you're the only one creating such a big deal out of this. Kobe is getting to the line. Period. There is nothing "fake" about it. Your argument is so ridiculous.
:05.2 CHI - C. Duhon hits the second free throw
:05.2 CHI - C. Duhon hits the first free throw
:05.2 CHI - K. Hinrich hits a technical free throw
:05.2 MIL - Personal foul on M. Williams
:09.9 CHI - K. Hinrich offensive rebound
What happened, Eminem?
And a win for the Mavs at home (finally) without:
Dirk
Finley
Dampier
Stackhouse
:05.2 CHI - C. Duhon hits the first free throw
:05.2 CHI - K. Hinrich hits a technical free throw
:05.2 MIL - Personal foul on M. Williams
:09.9 CHI - K. Hinrich offensive rebound
What happened, Eminem?
And a win for the Mavs at home (finally) without:
Dirk
Finley
Dampier
Stackhouse
Ninja Scooter said:
Keep telling yourself that there is nothing wrong with a player getting to the line far more than players who are more aggressive than he is (AI, Wade), and dominant than he is (prime Shaq); keep telling yourself that there's nothing at all odd about having more made FT's than FG's. One day you'll realize that Kobe simply cannot get it done. Sure, if you define "getting it done" as "putting up points", he gets it done (due to his absurd FT #'s). But I don't define it that way. Kobe is more aggressive than Iverson is/was? AI's never come close to Kobe's FT average this year.
Again, think about what you're saying: Kobe deserves to get to the line more than prime Shaq. More than the most dominant offensive player of the last 35 years. Your comment about how it's not about what people "deserve" is interesting, because if you do not feel that Kobe "deserves" to get to the line more than a prime Shaq (and I can't see how anyone can say that Kobe does deserve to get to the line more than Shaq used to based on the defensive attention and contact he used to receive), then you'll have to admit that he's getting preferential treatment. Not only that, but he's getting it much more than any player-- even Jordan, who everyone thought got a lot of "phantom calls"-- ever did.
Kobe: overrated. I respect a guy who can make 11 FG's per game with 7 FT's more than one who makes 7-8 FG's with 11-12 FT's every game (Kobe). It's just a personal preference. It also bothers me because I feel that Kobe, as good as he is (top 5 imo), is not nearly as good as he thinks he is, and one of the only reasons that people still think he's so great is his scoring average, which wouldn't be nearly as high if he shot a normal (yet still high) number of FT's. He just can't get it done. He shoots 40% most of the year and turns the ball over at an alarming rate, yet people splooge over a 40 point game of his when it's something like 12-29 from the floor with a couple of 3's and 15-16 from the line. Sorry, but that doesn't impress me much, personally. Especially when it's a frequent occurrence and seemingly the only way you can score 32+ points (due to his atrocious FG%).
BatiGOOOOOOL
Member
Cloudy said:
You hope? As if that would be much different than pretty much every other game.
Seriously, I don't see what the big deal is about Kobe getting all those FTs. Sure, he might get a few calls during every game, just like any other star. But he is also very good at provoking the contact and drawing the fouls. That's just part of the game. One more weapon in his offensive arsenal.
Heck, my boy Manu scored 31 yesterday shooting 7-11 and 14-15 FTs. He is great at driving to the basket. If he is not fouled he would probably make 4 or 5 more shots. Not his fault and neither is Kobe's.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Loki said:
JESUS?!? Have you gone insane loki? Im saying NOBODY "deserves" to go to the free throw any set number of times, or at any kind of ratio. Its like saying "who deserves to score 30 points a game? Or who deserves to get 11 assists a game?" Its such a stupid concept. SOme guys do it, some guys don't. Either you are fouled or you're not. THats it. Thats all there is to it. And no matter how much "Its just my preference" or "Its just my opinion" bullshit you try to spin it with, you have yet to give a compelling argument as to why getting to the free throw line numerous times in a game is a bad thing. Cause its not.
And thats why you are the only person in the known free world that brings this up like some kind of issue. You're really reaching at shit to "prove" Kobe is inferior to Jordan with. ITs getting kinda pathetic. Nobody even compares Kobe to Jordan anymore (except you). Kobe's established. He's been around for nearly a decade, drop the campaign already.
find someone "splooging" over his 40 point game? You're like the only one talking about Kobe anymore. You probably talk about Kobe more than his parents do these days.
And what I'm asking you is this:
Do you believe, with your own eyes, that Kobe gets fouled more than Shaq did in his prime? Yes or no. If no (the only reasonable conclusion), then why does he get to the line more than Shaq did? That's the context I was using "deserve" in.
If Kobe Bryant this year is legitimately getting fouled 11-12 times per game (as you assert), then Shaq in his prime had to be getting fouled about 17-20 times per game. I watch the games. I'm not saying that Kobe's not good at drawing contact and getting to the line, because he is-- I just feel that he should legitimately be getting about 8-10 FT's per game, not 11-12.
I also find it funny how you rush to defend your beloved, yet have never said the same thing when people have harped on Jordan getting "phantom calls" (see: etiolate). Apparently you agreed with that, judging by your silence.
The fact is that being able to draw fouls IS a useful ability, but along with that, any "star" should also have the ability to put the ball in the basket. Kobe can't-- at least not any more than guys like Dirk, AI, or Lebron can. That's all I'm saying. And if you feel that I'm unduly "hating on" Kobe, then perhaps you should've tried to silence all the people splooging over him every time he did anything remotely noteworthy, and comparing him to the best player ever (yours or mine ). Sorry, but when someone gets undue hype despite having achieved nothing of note, I'm gonna cut 'em down to size whenever I feel so inclined. Of course it's not. However, when it seems to be the only way that you can manage to score 32+ points, that tells me something about a player. When it seemingly happens every night (more FT's than FG's), it tells me something about a player. If this was a once in a while thing, I'd never open my mouth-- Jordan had numerous 15+ FT games also, as does AI or Wade, like Konex posted.
Yet you never called out the people who were "really reaching at shit to 'prove' that Kobe was as good as Jordan". Why the inconsistency?
And I don't really have to reach very far-- the fact is that having more FT's made in a season than FG's is ludicrous (for a star player-- I'm sure some 5-10 minute guys make more FT's than FG's), and, were I aware of it, I'd point it out just the same regardless of who was doing it. Hopefully next year Wade or Lebron get sucked off by the refs like Kobe does and make more FT's than FG's so I can criticize them too, so you can see that this is just my personal opinion-- it really has nothing to do with Kobe, but rather about how I feel the game should be played. Then again, those players' FG% would also have to drop precipitously for their made FT's to overtake their made FG's-- say, to about 40% or so...just like Kobe "I can't hit the side of a barn" Bryant. Konex, Poody, and VPhys (among others) splooge over every good thing Kobe does, no matter how inconsequential. And yeah, I probably do talk about Kobe more than his parents, considering that his father nearly disowned him for marrying a latina chick-- see, Piston? You wouldn't have been good enough for Kobe's family!
All the more reason to hate... Half of what I say is tongue-in-cheek; believe me when I tell you that I don't sit around thinking about how best to criticize Kobe's game. After all, it wouldn't be too difficult-- hmm, let's see, what shall I criticize today? The atrocious FG%? The scads of TO's? The conspicuous lack of clutchness this season? The mediocre record? I just have so many options!
I kid around a lot, but most of what I say is how I see it, even if it's not that important to me in the overall scheme of things.Kobe's Concubine said:
Nothing would surprise me at this point...
Too sleepy to read your essay but I don't know why you'd compare Kobe's FT attempts this season to Shaq's prime. With the crackdown on defense this year, EVERYONE (especially guards) is getting to the line much more. Notice how Arenas is now a top-10 offensive player and a 2nd year guy like Wade is getting to the line just as much as AI :lol
Cloudy said:
The thing is, if you watch the games, Wade's and AI's style of play is noticeably more aggressive overall than Kobe's is, which explains their attempts. What explains Kobe's? I used Shaq as an example because new rules or not, if people honestly feel that Kobe is getting fouled 12 times per game, then they have to believe that Shaq should have averaged about 17+ FT's back in the day. No two ways about it.
Btw, none of the players you mentioned (Wade, Arenas, AI) have 33% of their offensive production coming from FT'. Iverson is closest, at 29%. And keep in mind that he's visibly more aggressive than Kobe is during the course of a game.
Loki if you noticed, i'm been cutting down on the kobe splooging during the 2nd half of the season. I've just been too busy these days. i'll just end it with this
http://rapidshare.de/files/790395/Kobe_Crazy_And_1_3-6-05.avi.html
Best and 1 shot evar?!?!?
http://rapidshare.de/files/790412/Kobe_Leftie_Layup_3-6-05.avi.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/790395/Kobe_Crazy_And_1_3-6-05.avi.html
Best and 1 shot evar?!?!?
http://rapidshare.de/files/790412/Kobe_Leftie_Layup_3-6-05.avi.html
11-12 FTAs != 11-12 game fouls. More like 5 to 6 fouls. He also shoots techs, has the ball in clock fouling situations and is one of the best at converting and1s. Disregarding all that, you honestly don't think Kobe gets fouled 5 to 6 times per game? Give it a rest, Lokster :lol
You're talking to me about watching present day games? :lol
You're talking to me about watching present day games? :lol
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