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[sonycowboy]

A very nice price point but I don't see why this'll mean doom for DS. Sony are charging 5,760 Yen ($54) more for a machine without touchscreen, secondary LAN capability, microphone, second screen, GBA BC and game saves built into media. In return you get one bigger screen, flash MP3 player and the hardware difference between a N64 and DC. Outside of graphics whores I don't see consumers thinking they're getting a huge bargain with PSP. If bang per buck was a deal maker GC would be outselling PS2 and Xbox .

LOL. People will see the difference. Why get hamburger when you can get steak?

Also, the LAN thing is pointless. With the single wireless on the PSP, it supports both "ad-hoc" as well as true online play.

 

[AlphaSnake]

I'd just like to point out how fucking right I've been this whole time. I've been saying $200 for ages.

 

[Soul4ger]

It doesn't include an extra battery. The extra items are the

1) 32MB memory stick duo,
2) headphone w/ remote control
3) Soft case and a hand strap

Ah, that was my misunderstanding. Regardless, the memory stick is a definite must-have, and anyone who cares should want the other two things, too. As I said, $250 is a steal.

 

[Razoric]

LOL. People will see the difference. Why get hamburger when you can get steak?

Also, the LAN thing is pointless. With the single wireless on the PSP, it supports both "ad-hoc" as well as true online play.

True online play? Explain please. :O

 

[maharg]

OMG It's a PURSE!

 

[Razoric]

OMG It's a PURSE!

It's not a purse, it's European! :O

 

[seismologist]

it doesn't even come with a case?

 

[sonycowboy]

True online play? Explain please. :O

Over the internet as opposed to connecting to local PSP's in your wireless range.

 

[Soul4ger]

It's not a purse, it's European! :O

:lol

Nice one, Tribbiani.

 

[sonycowboy]

It's not a purse, it's European! :O

Lol. The man bag will finally overcome!
We've resisted for so long, but this sucker won't fit in our wallets.

 

[Argyle]

So...

-Draconian 3rd party policies
-Expensive, low storage format
-Difficult development environment
-Last to launch
-Most expensive, highest spec chipset


...are Nintendo's mistakes with DS?

I know you're being sarcastic, but...

I think 3rd party relations are better now, but yes, that has definitely fucked them in the past. I don't think it's as relevant now, so I'll give you that (GC was really a wake-up call for them, I think)...

The DS definitely has an expensive, low storage format (relatively speaking).

I don't know about the difficult development environment, but with two CPUs (it's an ARM7 and an ARM9, right?) vs the PSP's single powerful CPU, it seems that the PSP is both more powerful and likely easier to develop for. I don't really know much about either, though, so maybe someone working on either platform could chime in here.

Nintendo has never been about power, they've always been about giving us what their competitor gave us last year + about 10%, but a couple of years later so it's not nearly as shiny and new by the time we get it. In this case the DS is looking pretty damn half-assed as far as technology goes...they've never, ever been about having the most expensive chipset, so I have no idea where you are coming from.

The media is likely to be a problem for Nintendo, although this newfangled memory may be cheaper than mask or flash ROM, I seriously doubt it will be cheaper than an optical disc, and probably takes longer to manufacture as well. So they are definitely repeating that mistake, and it is a pretty big mistake IMHO.

At least Nintendo isn't last to launch this time

(BTW, I'm planning to get both DS and PSP. I gotsta get my Driller on but I'll be honest, I think the PSP is a far more interesting machine than the DS. I'm still waiting for some GAMES that use the touchscreen well - most everything at E3 was a tech demo that I might pay $5 for, but not really anything fleshed out enough to be a $30 game...)

(still reading

It may be an enticement, but it's certainly not an initiative. The Game Boy platform does have pros over the DS: Longer battery life, compatibility with GB/GBC games, and being smaller. Hell, for about $30, the GBA can have the same short-range, wireless gaming that the DS offers.

There are plenty of people who will look at both and be perfectly willing to either keep the GBA indefinitely, or just wait until the next proper Game Boy, whatever that might be.

There is one thing that keeps you from selling your GBA for a DS - and that is the link cable. Considering that the most popular GBA game is Pokemon...

Consider it the "backlight" of the GBA or the "headphone jack" of the SP It's all about the Nintendo Difference

 

[Razoric]

Over the internet as opposed to connecting to local PSP's in your wireless range.

Is there a source where I can read about this? :O :O

 

[sonycowboy]

The media is likely to be a problem for Nintendo, although this newfangled memory may be cheaper than mask or flash ROM, I seriously doubt it will be cheaper than an optical disc, and probably takes longer to manufacture as well. So they are definitely repeating that mistake, and it is a pretty big mistake IMHO.

Well, it's going to cut both ways. People are gonna jump all over the PSP for having PS2 style load times, at least when the game starts up. This according to that Sony interview a few weeks back. I know that the system will have a "quick on/off" feature so you can essentially just put it to sleep, so the problem will be quite muted.

I just hope the non-game startup is as close to instantaneous as they can make it for MP3's and movies.

 

[Argyle]

Well, it's going to cut both ways. People are gonna jump all over the PSP for having PS2 style load times, at least when the game starts up. This according to that Sony interview a few weeks back. I know that the system will have a "quick on/off" feature so you can essentially just put it to sleep, so the problem will be quite muted.

I just hope the non-game startup is as close to instantaneous as they can make it for MP3's and movies.

Are people really going to jump all over that? I mean, GTA:SA has a really long load on boot, are people returning that because the damn thing takes too long to boot?

Media cost (and, possibly more importantly, manufacturing turnaround) are something that hits Nintendo where it hurts, IMHO. You can condition people to tolerate the load times, but Nintendo can't magically make their media nearly free to manufacture...

 

[cja]

LOL. People will see the difference. Why get hamburger when you can get steak?

Also, the LAN thing is pointless. With the single wireless on the PSP, it supports both "ad-hoc" as well as true online play.

Hamburger outsells steak! This mirrors the Game Boy versus Lynx battle, $40 price difference and generational leap in tech, the steak didn't win. I concede the second point since the hamburger eaters won't give a damn, replace with Pictochat, t'is a nice relish.

 

[Shoryuken]

I know you're being sarcastic, but...

I think 3rd party relations are better now, but yes, that has definitely fucked them in the past. I don't think it's as relevant now, so I'll give you that (GC was really a wake-up call for them, I think)...

The DS definitely has an expensive, low storage format (relatively speaking).

I don't know about the difficult development environment, but with two CPUs (it's an ARM7 and an ARM9, right?) vs the PSP's single powerful CPU, it seems that the PSP is both more powerful and likely easier to develop for. I don't really know much about either, though, so maybe someone working on either platform could chime in here.

Nintendo has never been about power, they've always been about giving us what their competitor gave us last year + about 10%, but a couple of years later so it's not nearly as shiny and new by the time we get it. In this case the DS is looking pretty damn half-assed as far as technology goes...they've never, ever been about having the most expensive chipset, so I have no idea where you are coming from.

The media is likely to be a problem for Nintendo, although this newfangled memory may be cheaper than mask or flash ROM, I seriously doubt it will be cheaper than an optical disc, and probably takes longer to manufacture as well. So they are definitely repeating that mistake, and it is a pretty big mistake IMHO.

At least Nintendo isn't last to launch this time

(BTW, I'm planning to get both DS and PSP. I gotsta get my Driller on but I'll be honest, I think the PSP is a far more interesting machine than the DS. I'm still waiting for some GAMES that use the touchscreen well - most everything at E3 was a tech demo that I might pay $5 for, but not really anything fleshed out enough to be a $30 game...)

(still reading



There is one thing that keeps you from selling your GBA for a DS - and that is the link cable. Considering that the most popular GBA game is Pokemon...

Consider it the "backlight" of the GBA or the "headphone jack" of the SP It's all about the Nintendo Difference

Actually you're pretty much wrong on most accounts. DS's media is cheap (probably comparative to the PSP), from most reports it is easier to develop for, and as far as 3rd party support goes it has a few more announced games than PSP.

 

[sonycowboy]

Are people really going to jump all over that? I mean, GTA:SA has a really long load on boot, are people returning that because the damn thing takes too long to boot?

To be fair, I think portable load times are more important than console. You only have minutes at a time many times that you want to play something quickly. Again, I don't think it will be a huge issue, because you can simply put the system to sleep in-between sessions, but I'm sure they'll get some grief over it. The haters always have to have some ammunition, weak though it may be.

 

[Mr_Furious]

FYI: Play-Asia has started accepting pre-orders for the PSP bundle @ $269 (didn't bother checking how much the bare bones version cost)

 

[neptunes]

and as far as 3rd party support goes it has a few more announced games than PSP.

That doesn't take into account the numerous amount of developers (western, japanese and european) who have signed on an haven't announced the names of the games they're developing.

 

[thorns]

Actually you're pretty much wrong on most accounts. DS's media is cheap (probably comparative to the PSP), from most reports it is easier to develop for, and as far as 3rd party support goes it has a few more announced games than PSP.

how can the cost of ds and psp media be comparable when PSP's media is just plastic and DS's media is silicon chips?

 

[sonycowboy]

Actually you're pretty much wrong on most accounts. DS's media is cheap (probably comparative to the PSP), from most reports it is easier to develop for, and as far as 3rd party support goes it has a few more announced games than PSP.

DS's media isn't anywhere being as close to cheap as UMD. optical media is pennies, cartridges are not.

The bitching we've seen over the PSP programming seems more to me to be a case of trying to take PS2 code and move it over to the PSP, and with some weak documentation for the system. However, I don't think that anybody is complaining about problems inherent to the PSP environment.

From a development standpoint, I'd say the DS is difficult in that you have two processors and two screens. From the PSP side, I'd say that managing the optical disc, and dealing with the higher tech will drive the cost and, at some level, the complexity of the game up as well. Eventually though, the PSP will be, by far, the easier system to develop for.

 

[sprsk]

If the ds media is so expensive hwy are almost all the games 19-29 dollars, and psp games 49?

 

[Mrbob]

If the ds media is so expensive hwy are almost all the games 19-29 dollars, and psp games 49?

They are?

Vast majority of DS game prices listed at EB and Gamestop are 40 bucks, and some 50. A few at 30 and none at 20.

 

[sprsk]

the web must not be updated, in the gamestop computers most games are listed 19-29, either way they are cheaper than psp games.

 

[Yusaku]

Am I the only one that thinks neither PSP or DS has a chance at unseating the GBA? At least initially.

 

[Mrbob]

the web must not be updated, in the gamestop computers most games are listed 19-29, either way they are cheaper than psp games.

Well when we have such epic creations as Balloon Fight it's hard to compete.

 

[Link316]

So you expect Sony to follow PS2 pricing in regards to PSP?

no, I just expect Sony to follow their own path

We can all expect to pay only about $110 for our PSPs here?

no, I said 19800 is closer to $179 than $199

Actually $129 keeps a pretty good difference. I'd say only at $99 is the psychological barrier broken.

Then again, what if Nintendo drops DS to $99 and GBASP to $69?

so let them if they want to lose whatever margins they have on the DS and GBA, Nintendo needs the handheld market alot more than Sony does

 

[3kuSaS]

Geez, anyone who denies that DS's touchscreen is a gimmick is in some serious denial. Its a gimmick, a gimmick that will probably be useful in .1% of games. Hey, I got excited about the DC's VMU a while back. Nice gimmick. Did anyone really care after the first week? No. The same will happen with the DS. What Nintendo should have done is what Sony did- they made an impressive system with an impressive lineup..and isnt that what everyone wants? Now I don't know much about the DS's lineup, but the system isn't terribly impressive, especially compared to PSP.

Touchscreen steering for RR? Jesus, talk about hand cramps. I wouldnt be suprised to find that most games are unplayable after a certain amount of time due to cramping.

 

[jarrod]

Bah... I was being sarcastic. :/

The DS definitely has an expensive, low storage format (relatively speaking).

Low storage sure but not really expensive. In fact, if Matrix is to be believed, 3D ROM should be disposably cheap... I'm unsure if a 128MB 3DROM card or a UMD is would actually be cheaper. This is far cry from N64 Vs Ps1.

And as for space, from what I understand 128MB is the base (smallest) DS card size. Comprarably, that's like a 4MB N64 cart, meaning if DS saw the same increases N64 did, we could see 2GB DS cards in only a few years. Poentially, DS could actually have a higher capacity formatting than PSP (not that it'd need it with the lowered specs though). Also the low costs of 3DROM introduces the possibility of multicard games if developers want more space.... space really shouldn't be a problem for DS though considering it's chipset performance. 128MB isn't too bad to start.

I don't know about the difficult development environment, but with two CPUs (it's an ARM7 and an ARM9, right?) vs the PSP's single powerful CPU, it seems that the PSP is both more powerful and likely easier to develop for. I don't really know much about either, though, so maybe someone working on either platform could chime in here.

PSP is actually two MIPS chips and a Vector Unit (so 3 chips really) compared to two DS chips. Also, according to Koei, the DS development environment is much easier to use and further along than PSP (which is still buggy).... by nature of the lower specs, DS should also save on development costs and complexity compared to PSP (assuming both platforms are being pushed).

Nintendo has never been about power, they've always been about giving us what their competitor gave us last year + about 10%, but a couple of years later so it's not nearly as shiny and new by the time we get it. In this case the DS is looking pretty damn half-assed as far as technology goes...they've never, ever been about having the most expensive chipset, so I have no idea where you are coming from.

Until this generation, Nintendo's actually always had the highest spec chipset for mass market consoles. By a wide margin too... though obviously this has never really been their intention with handhelds (while GBA was the highest spec handheld when it released, GP32 came about pretty quick).

The media is likely to be a problem for Nintendo, although this newfangled memory may be cheaper than mask or flash ROM, I seriously doubt it will be cheaper than an optical disc, and probably takes longer to manufacture as well. So they are definitely repeating that mistake, and it is a pretty big mistake IMHO.

Nope, 3DROM is once write and can be done post manufacturing (meaning no more turn around time than optical media)... and really it could actually be cheaper than UMD for the smaller capacity cards. UMD adds costs thanks to being a propietary format (hello GameCube) and those plastic disc caddies too, remember... again this isn't carts Vs CD.

 

[sprsk]

Well when we have such epic creations as Balloon Fight it's hard to compete.

k

 

[Argyle]

To be fair, I think portable load times are more important than console. You only have minutes at a time many times that you want to play something quickly. Again, I don't think it will be a huge issue, because you can simply put the system to sleep in-between sessions, but I'm sure they'll get some grief over it. The haters always have to have some ammunition, weak though it may be.

A good point - anyone know what the xfer rate is on a UMD? I bet if you set your initial load up correctly, it wouldn't take very long at all to load everything you need into RAM...

I guess we'll see what load times (vs. battery life, use of streaming, etc) are like when the games finally hit...

 

[jarrod]

no, I just expect Sony to follow their own path

Like 19800 yen was following their own path? I wonder what happened to the 33000 yen price Sony Gemany leaked in their slide presentation?

so let them if they want to lose whatever margins they have on the DS and GBA, Nintendo needs the handheld market alot more than Sony does

I don't think so, Sony's already in too deep. They need PSP to be a notable success after this sort of investment.

 

[JasoNsider]

Well when we have such epic creations as Balloon Fight it's hard to compete.

You mean epic like Sticky Balls kind of epic, or are you talking about the Ape Escape brand of epic?

 

[Miburou]

The PSP will probably be $199 in North America. Slightly more expensive than in Japan, but then so is the DS.

 

[Xellos]

PSP's definitely got the hardware edge on DS. Much better graphics, larger media, and an analog stick (still can't figure why DS doesn't have one in addition to the touch screen). The price is like the icing on the cake. PSP is definitely going to make some noise when it's released.

That said DS has the more interesting software lineup IMO, at least during this early stage. It may have noticeably inferior 3D, no analog stick and carts, but it does have Mario, Wario, Metroid, Advance Wars, and Pokemon coming. Portables have shown to have a much lower tie-in ratio than consoles. It follows that one big game like Pokemon could have a bigger impact than the equivalent console game. Then again PSP will almost certainly have a killer version of Madden (and pretty much every other EA game) coming next year, so who knows.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Razoric]

if....
GTA PSP for America and Dragon Quest PSP for Japan....
final nail in coffin for DS. :O

 

[jarrod]

The PSP will probably be $199 in North America. Slightly more expensive than in Japan, but then so is the DS.

That's what I'm thinking... I wonder if the rumored delay to April-June might happen also though to build up stocks and decrease manufacturing costs as much as possible? It might not hurt (though that could potenetially push a Euro launch to the fall).

Nintendo really needs to drop the DS price in response though. It seems they were willing to launch as low as 10,000 yen... that might not be a bad idea now. Try to bleed Sony early on if possible... use the same tactic Sony used against Sega in 1994/1995, poetically enough.

 

[Xellos]

if....
GTA PSP for America and Dragon Quest PSP for Japan....
final nail in coffin for DS. :O

Yeah, that would be huge.

 

[jarrod]

if....
GTA PSP for America and Dragon Quest PSP for Japan....
final nail in coffin for DS. :O

I think GTA PSP is a sure thing.... DQ seems more likely to go to DS though I'd say.

 

[Link316]

Like 19800 yen was following their own path?

the PSP was announced before the DS, so if anything Nintendo is reacting to Sony

I don't think so, Sony's already in too deep. They need PSP to be a notable success after this sort of investment.

yeah sure

 

[Lord Error]

without touchscreen, secondary LAN capability, microphone, second screen, GBA BC and game saves built into media. In return you get one bigger screen, flash MP3 player and the hardware difference between a N64 and DC

Way to spin things. Nevermind that you get two small, worse looking screens, instead of one that is larger than both DS's combined and is just much higher quality, that you get games on a media that is an order lower capacity than UMD, inferior sound and large difference in 3D graphics output, and no analog stick on DS.
Btw, there's already one title on PSP that uses microphone (Talkman) and ad-hoc feature of WiFi allows 'secondary' LAN capability.

Am I the only one that thinks neither PSP or DS has a chance at unseating the GBA? At least initially.

You're definitely not the only one. But frankly, who cares about what GBA will or won't do.

 

[Argyle]

Bah... I was being sarcastic. :/

I know. I'm just saying your "these are Nintendo's past mistakes" are either mistakes Nintendo didn't really make in the past, or are actually mistakes Nintendo ARE making again.

Low storage sure but not really expensive. In fact, if Matrix is to be believed, 3D ROM should be disposably cheap... I'm unsure if a 128MB 3DROM card or a UMD is wopuld actually be cheaper. This is far cry from N64 Vs Ps1.

And as for space, from what I understand 128MB is the base (smallest) DS card size. Comprarably, that's like a 4MB N64 cart, meaning if DS saw the same increases N64 did, we could see 2GB DS cards in only a few years. Poentially, DS could actually have a higher capacity formatting than PSP (not that it'd need it with the lowered specs though). Also the low costs of 3DROM introduces the possibility of multicard games in developers want more space.... space really shouldn't be a problem for DS though considering it's chipset performance. 128MB isn't too bad to start.

Low costs? Are we talking low as in $.02 low, or are we talking low as in $5 low (vs $15-20 for mask ROM)?

Multicard games? Can you hotswap the DS games? Otherwise, how can you save your progress from one card to another (with no memory card)?

PSP is actually two MIPS chips and a Vector Unit (so 3 chips really) compared to two DS chips. Also, according to Koei, the DS development environment is much easier to use and further along than PSP (which is still buggy).... by nature of the lower specs, DS should also save on devlopment costs and complexity compared to PSP (assuming both platforms are being pushed).

The second MIPS chip is not programmable by developers (as far as I know) so you can take it out of the equation - it is intended for media playback. It's possible the DS environment is cleaner but since I'm not a DS or PSP developer I really have no idea.

Until this generation, Nintendo's actually always had the highest spec chipset for mass market consoles. By a wide margin too... though obviously this has never really been their intention with handhelds (though GBA was the highest spec handheld when it released, GP32 came about pretty quick).

But NOT the most expensive, which is your original point (most expensive, most powerful chipset) - the trick is that Nintendo launches last and lets Moore's law take care of the power issue for them. They have NEVER been about pushing the envelope.

Nope, 3DROM is once write and can be done post manufacturing (meaning no more turn around time than optical media)... and really it could actually be cheaper than UMD for the smaller capacity cards. UMD adds costs thanks to being a propietary format (hello GameCube) and those plastic disc caddies too, remember... again this isn't carts Vs CD.

Re: the turnaround time, that's definitely a plus for Nintendo, I'm glad they aren't COMPLETE fucktards. I honestly don't know how you can think it's going to be cheaper than UMD - has anyone gotten pricing information on blank 3DROM chips?

 

[Schmo Florez]

consider me standing in line for this one.

 

[border]

For future reference:

LISTING OF INTERESTING OR IRONIC PARALLELS THAT I EXPECT TO SEE WHIPPED OUT SOONER OR LATER:

PSX vs N64 : New competitor brings product to the market with optical media rather than cartridges. Third parties flock to the lower-cost media, consumers love "mature" image and marketing slant.

Dreamcast vs PS2 : Innovative new product from company with "hardcore, old school" following is overshadowed by less innovative product that is hyped up to have best graphics ever. Despite being 50% cheaper and launching 1 year earlier, the "classic" company's hardware is quickly overtaken.

SegaCD/32X : Entrenched market competitor tries to stave off next generation products by releasing stopgap solutions that split the market. By the time a true successor to the Genesis is released, their brand has already been compromised by half-supported products that had a short lifespan.

Gameboy vs GameGear/TurboExpress : Technically superior competitor falls to entrenched market leader, mainly due to technical flaws such as battery life and inability to produce true killer applications.

GameCube versus Xbox : Despite costing 50% more than the Nintendo product, a newcomer is able to win out against a familiar brand....thanks to the perception of "maturity", and an expensive-but-marketable featureset that the competition does not have.

 

[Chittagong]

For future reference:

LISTING OF INTERESTING OR IRONIC PARALLELS THAT I EXPECT TO SEE WHIPPED OUT SOONER OR LATER:

PSX vs N64 : New competitor brings product to the market with optical media rather than cartridges. Third parties flock to the lower-cost media, consumers love "mature" image and marketing slant.

Dreamcast vs PS2 : Innovative new product from company with "hardcore, old school" following is overshadowed by less innovative product that is hyped up to have best graphics ever. Despite being 50% cheaper and launching 1 year earlier, the "classic" company's hardware is quickly overtaken.

SegaCD/32X : Entrenched market competitor tries to stave off next generation products by releasing stopgap solutions that split the market. By the time a true successor to the Genesis is released, their brand has already been compromised by half-supported products that had a short lifespan.

Gameboy vs GameGear/TurboExpress : Technically superior competitor falls to entrenched market leader, mainly due to technical flaws such as battery life and inability to produce true killer applications.

GameCube versus Xbox : Despite costing 50% more than the Nintendo product, a newcomer is able to win out against a familiar brand....thanks to the perception of "maturity", and an expensive-but-marketable featureset that the competition does not have.

Man, your thinking is razorsharp.

 

[jarrod]

the PSP was announced before the DS, so if anything Nintendo is reacting to Sony

Cute.

yeah sure

They do... at this point they can't afford to walk away with an Xbox sized userbase. Especially if they're hoping to recoup these costs on handheld software. :/

I know. I'm just saying your "these are Nintendo's past mistakes" are either mistakes Nintendo didn't really make in the past, or are actually mistakes Nintendo ARE making again.

But really, they aren't making any of thses mistakes again. :/

Low costs? Are we talking low as in $.02 low, or are we talking low as in $5 low (vs $15-20 for mask ROM)?

We don't know for sure yet. I do remember SCEI charts showing UMD as about as cheap as DVD ($0.70-80 iirc) though I'm unsure if that cost includes the mandatory plastic caddies. Optical will always have the advantage in terms of space over solid state (at least for the foreseeable future) but that doesn't automatically mean UMD will be a cheaper option than a 128MB DS card.

Multicard games? Can you hotswap the DS games? Otherwise, how can you save your progress from one card to another (with no memory card)?

Erm, I actually hadn't thought about it... perhaps the information could be stored in the DS' 4.5MB of RAM until the new card is inserted? DS could be put into sleep mode, then the cards switched out?

The second MIPS chip is not programmable by developers (as far as I know) so you can take it out of the equation - it is intended for media playback. It's possible the DS environment is cleaner but since I'm not a DS or PSP developer I really have no idea.

Er, both chips are used in games... all media functions in PSP are actually integrated into the CPU Core, GPU and Media Engine afaik. Maybe I have it wrong... Pana?

But NOT the most expensive, which is your original point (most expensive, most powerful chipset) - the trick is that Nintendo launches last and lets Moore's law take care of the power issue for them. They have NEVER been about pushing the envelope.

Sure, even the relatively high spec GameCube was more about efficiency than anything. But SNES & N64 were definietly the most expensive mainstream console chipsets when they eventually did hit the market as well.

Re: the turnaround time, that's definitely a plus for Nintendo, I'm glad they aren't COMPLETE fucktards. I honestly don't know how you can think it's going to be cheaper than UMD - has anyone gotten pricing information on blank 3DROM chips?

Nothing concrete yet, but you have to remember manufacturing was never the biggest cost involved with ROM, it was materials. 3DROM alleviates that mainly by effectively stacking the chips and more effictively using silicon... I'm not sure of the specifics but maybe they explain it better on their website.

Matrix officials are pushing 3DROM as disposably cheap though, they used the idea of cards being cheap enough to be given away free/promotionally with magazines for example (which funny enough, was an example used by SCEI officials later on to illustrate how cheap UMD is too).

 

[Kiriku]

That's a great price, and something I never expected. I was thinking $250-300, even though I considered it to be too high personally. $200 (or less), that's simply a great price.

I'm still hesitant about Sony taking a big chunk of the handheld market though. Nintendo are really, really strong in the handheld market, Pokémon sales are madness, and even if NDS flops GBA will probably live on with a potential GBA 2 not far into the future.

Still, neither PSP nor NDS have any launch titles I'm really excited about. The handheld market will be a lot more enjoyable to follow now, and maybe it'll push handheld development further too, far enough to make me pick up either a PSP or NDS.

I have to agree NDS looks more interesting than PSP when it comes to the potential for gameplay possibilites, but whether or not this potential will be realized in any bigger way remains to be seen (or played). I'm worried NDS developers will be wrapped up in a special kind of NDS thinking turning their games into novelty affairs, where they come up with a "cool" idea of how to use the touchscreen/dualscreen (+microphone), and build a whole game around that very idea with slight variations thinking it will be enough for consumers.

Or they could come up with experimental sort of games that turn out really crappy just because they tried too hard to do something original. So what I'm saying is, the new and original features with NDS could be too much for certain developers to handle. Of course, we could also see games that won't take any noticable advantage of the NDS features at ALL. Sorry for being such a negative dude, but the hardware is only half of it. Now it's up to the developers to make something. That's why it will be very interesting for me to evaluate some of the NDS games (for a longer period of time).

One thing I'm worried about with the PSP is, since it seems like Sony want consumers to focus their attention on the PSP hardware (graphics, to be more precise), and since they intend to keep it on the market for many years, won't the PSP graphics feel dated pretty soon? Or will it still follow the "it's a handheld, so graphics aren't that important" mantra? I believe someone mentioned 10 years on the market...that's a long time. Although I'm positive Sony will release a "PSP 2" 5-6 years from now, unless PSP flops of course.

Just some random thoughts.

 

[btrboyev]

PSX vs N64 : New competitor brings product to the market with optical media rather than cartridges. Third parties flock to the lower-cost media, consumers love "mature" image and marketing slant.

Dreamcast vs PS2 : Innovative new product from company with "hardcore, old school" following is overshadowed by less innovative product that is hyped up to have best graphics ever. Despite being 50% cheaper and launching 1 year earlier, the "classic" company's hardware is quickly overtaken.

SegaCD/32X : Entrenched market competitor tries to stave off next generation products by releasing stopgap solutions that split the market. By the time a true successor to the Genesis is released, their brand has already been compromised by half-supported products that had a short lifespan.

Gameboy vs GameGear/TurboExpress : Technically superior competitor falls to entrenched market leader, mainly due to technical flaws such as battery life and inability to produce true killer applications.

GameCube versus Xbox : Despite costing 50% more than the Nintendo product, a newcomer is able to win out against a familiar brand....thanks to the perception of "maturity", and an expensive-but-marketable featureset that the competition does not have.

Optical media had little to do with the ps's success, the 64 just didn't have enough games coming out, n64 was still a commercial success no matter what sony fanboys say.

PS2 also had little to do with the DC's early demise, sega was broke, the DC was selling well, but it wasn't enough to save the company simple as that.

Sega Cd came out in 1992, long before next gen, it was a good idea but it was too expensive, the 32X can be blamed on SOA, SOJ wanted nothing to do with it.

Despite what you believe, the GB had a strong battle with the game gear. The game gear had some nice software, the battery sucked but it didn't kill the machine, sega pulled support when they moved to next gen.

Xbox still only has a slight lead on the GC, 2 million units isn't that big, and dvd playpack on xbox had little to do with its sales seeing you need to pay an extra $30 for crappy playback. If anything, nintendo has done a lot this gen to try and shed its so-called kiddie image.

 

[Shogmaster]

PS2 also had little to do with the DC's early demise, sega was broke, the DC was selling well, but it wasn't enough to save the company simple as that.

DC stopped selling Japan after PS2 came out because everyone was buying the PS2 as a DVD player there. That was the beginning of the end.

If DC kept on selling, Sega might have had enough operating capital to continue longer. The fact that DC sales practically ground to halt in Japan was why Sega ran out of money.

 

[Kiriku]

People use quite a few of examples from the past to predict what could happen in the future of the console and handheld markets, but I think we have a lot of different scenarios because there are just too many aspects making a difference. It is also still a young industry. I'm trying to say that because of this, the gaming industry is hard to predict.