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[Robert-GCA]

Nintendo can only control their own machinations, not the market itself. The "3rd Pillar" line is ultimately undermined by the fact that the 3rd Pillar directly competes with and plays the games of the 2nd Pillar. Developers and gamers are ultimately forced to choose between the two -- and that includes Nintendo studios. Resources and marketshare are split. "Independent" is a ludicrous misnomer.

What do you think the Tokyo studio they started is for?

DS is pretty clearly a stopgap, IMO.....a GBA2 prototype that got rushed to market in response to a competitor's challenge. Do you really think that they have any plans to continue releasing two handheld platforms in tandem for the rest of their corporate life (when they so clearly eat away at the same market)? Fuck no! If the DS is successful then the next Gameboy will have two screens and all the cool whizbang stuff that the DS did, because those features will have become the de facto standard. DS line will be abandoned, aside from the backwards compatibility aspect.

DS was announced, therefore already started production of debug units and mockup hardware, before the PSP was announced. There was no ruch by Nintendo to get this out. IMO it is Sony who is rushing to get their product out.

 

[Mrbob]

The best thing about the launching of new Playstation hardware are the amount of old and new Kutarugi pics that show up. :lol

This picture is hilarious:

Oh damn just noticed it was posted just before. Oh well so good post it thrice! :lol

This one is pretty good too:

 

[Baron Aloha]

Sony kind of fucked this one up. With their prices (NDS and PSP) relatively close (around $80 with all necessities), this was their chance to get a lead on the DS, but instead they're only launching in one region with only half of the DS's shipment in that region (1 million vs. 500,000 by the end of 2004 in Japan).

Don't worry. The PSP has years to catch up with the DS....and something tells me they will do just that and then some within the first year.

 

[JasoNsider]

Those thinking that this is just some sort of "damage control" better get a clue really fast. Good games are good games, no matter how you spin it. I want to play some choice PSP games as much as the next guy, but there are some serious problems here. As I see it, there are three problems total:

1) This whole thing about selling it at half of what it cost them to manufacture is a bit sickening. It actually reminds me a bit of that kid in high school that bought half of the raffle tickets because he could, leaving those with less cash with very little chance of winning. Or how about the card games like Magic where you can effectively by your way to the top by purchasing better cards? Sure, we're talking business here, but when I think of Nintendo I also think of a company filled with designers who work like animals to do something new. When the big competitor comes in and muscles their way to the top with a cheque book - well that doesn't sit nearly as well with me. If this industry is going to be a war of cheque book bleeding, then I will be greatly saddened. Instead, I would rather see quality dictate who the market leader is.

2) Innovations going unnoticed in the hardcore gaming population. So less than one percent of people have probably been into PDA touch screen gaming. That's great and all, but for everyone else - referring to the DS as a PS1 on the go is very worrying. I've been trying to tell myself for the last couple of years that there is still hope in gamers - through talking with some about the art in ICO, or the innovation of Katamari - but this topic has kind of solidified my fears a bit. Are gamers at large just "graphic whores", as you guys call them?

3) Gamers and change. The only monumental changes we've seen in this industry have been how far we can push visuals and how many functions we can stuff on a controller. If gamers are going to resist moving to new input devices like touch screens, and perhaps gyro controllers in the near future, we have a serious problem on our hands. How much longer can we shut out the rest of the population who are just too inexperienced to pick up any game these days? I'm writing a piece on game complexity right now, and I'll tell you - it's shocking just how complex the games we deem to be "simple" actually are. People who don't play games will most likely never get "into" games if all we do is just heap on more graphics and complexity.

 

[refreshZ]

did you watch the same matrix movies i did? the robots permit the hippies to keep living, after the sacrifice of their kung-fu jesus. it'll be the same way when sony lets nintendo develop for ps3 and psp, after the sacrifice of gahigiddy.

Thats genius...

 

[TekunoRobby]

So which is it around here? In the latest NPD thread a huge argument breaks out over whether the comparison of GBA sales to PS2/Xbox sales is legitimate (GBA is a seperate market vs GBA is in direct competition with the "Home" consoles). But at the same time people are implying that Sony's handheld is "boldly going where Sony has never gone before," while Sony themselves are pushing PSP as simply the mobile extension of their PlayStation(tm) brand.

I'm not singling any one person out, it just seems like the hypocracy on this issue is spinning out of control.

I take no part in the idle banter of sales comparison so unfortunately my comments are a bit of an outlier. What I can offer you is that I consider portable and console markets completely separate. I also do believe that the portable market is both large enough and lucrative enough to attract new consumers so the possibility of two active submarkets that cater to different audiences is very real.

The reason why I stated that: "this is their first entry into a marketplace which has a near total dominance by a single company" is because that is the truth. Right now I guess you could accurately determine that there aren't any flourishing submarkets, it's pretty much just Game Boy and Nintendo has a near complete dominance with regards to that. So technically while Sony is aiming to create a new submarket they are still facing those initial barriers. How large or small that barrier actually is is determined by how rapidly Sony manages to grow their adult-oriented portable market.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

The next Gameboy will have to surpass the PSP in just about every aspect if they are to keep this market. This E3 will just be crazy, Nintendo better have something ready for the show, games, system prototype and a host of features.

 

[Ristamar]

Wow, that's some hot shit. I wonder if Nintendo will consider launching the DS at a lower price (129.99 perhaps), kinda how the N64 was cheaper than expected, in an effort to create a larger price gap.

 

[Kon Tiki]

At first I thought he was standing up and has a huge boner.

 

[AniHawk]

Wow, that's some hot shit. I wonder if Nintendo will consider launching the DS at a lower price (129.99 perhaps), kinda how the N64 was cheaper than expected, in an effort to create a larger price gap.

I thought $130 was a great price since before E3. It makes the system more expensive than the GBA so that can keep selling, but it's also less than what a PSP might be in the states, with room for a price drop in the system's life.

 

[maskrider]

1) This whole thing about selling it at half of what it cost them to manufacture is a bit sickening. It actually reminds me a bit of that kid in high school that bought half of the raffle tickets because he could, leaving those with less cash with very little chance of winning. Or how about the card games like Magic where you can effectively by your way to the top by purchasing better cards? Sure, we're talking business here, but when I think of Nintendo I also think of a company filled with designers who work like animals to do something new. When the big competitor comes in and muscles their way to the top with a cheque book - well that doesn't sit nearly as well with me. If this industry is going to be a war of cheque book bleeding, then I will be greatly saddened. Instead, I would rather see quality dictate who the market leader is.

You sound like only the guys in Nintendo are working like animals but ignore the fact that there are way too many people working like animals all over the world. The world is like that, learn to accept it or fight if you think you can.

2) Innovations going unnoticed in the hardcore gaming population. So less than one percent of people have probably been into PDA touch screen gaming. That's great and all, but for everyone else - referring to the DS as a PS1 on the go is very worrying. I've been trying to tell myself for the last couple of years that there is still hope in gamers - through talking with some about the art in ICO, or the innovation of Katamari - but this topic has kind of solidified my fears a bit. Are gamers at large just "graphic whores", as you guys call them?

Something has to arouse interest to get attention, when something didn't get the attention that you want, you should blame that something than the people.

3) Gamers and change. The only monumental changes we've seen in this industry have been how far we can push visuals and how many functions we can stuff on a controller. If gamers are going to resist moving to new input devices like touch screens, and perhaps gyro controllers in the near future, we have a serious problem on our hands. How much longer can we shut out the rest of the population who are just too inexperienced to pick up any game these days? I'm writing a piece on game complexity right now, and I'll tell you - it's shocking just how complex the games we deem to be "simple" actually are. People who don't play games will most likely never get "into" games if all we do is just heap on more graphics and complexity.

When the idea is ripe enough to be taken, they will be accepted, much like the EYE TOY which still has a lot of problems to be solved, but still enjoyable under certain conditions.

 

[Lord Error]

This whole thing about selling it at half of what it cost them to manufacture is a bit sickening. It actually reminds me a bit of that kid in high school that bought half of the raffle tickets because he could,

Take note, however, that Nintendo is not exactly some small pushover guy here when it comes to money. Nintendo *does* have tons of savings in their 'war chest' and if they wanted, they could have done simillar thing as Sony (make high specced hardware, lose some money on it) Hell, they are maybe in even better position to do make that money back, given their large software sales. They chose not to do that, for all the good and bad that it could bring them, though. They made a different decision, but not out of some desperate lack of resources, it was simply their choice.

 

[border]

And yeah, you know what? If Nintendo thinks that they can afford, in both money and man power, to develop for three systems, two of which are portable, then the more power to them

Again, this is all a bit bigger than Nintendo. Their ability to support two competing platforms is really not the crux of things.

The DS is designed to make users migrate from GBA. If DS becomes the focus of consumer and developer interest, they are going to have to synthesize its features into a new GBA2 to get them to migrate back. At which point we are going to have to have a handheld with like 3 different cartridge ports

I think they are smart enough to realize that the two product lines cannibalize each other, but are happy to spout the "Third Pillar" line so long as it's convenient.

DS was announced, therefore already started production of debug units and mockup hardware, before the PSP was announced.

DS was announced before the PSP was announced? I think you've got things quite backwards.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Well, ep and border (and others) chimed in with the same opinion as me. Nintendo is making the same mistakes they did with the console business. Sleeping on a massive mind/marketshare advantage and they are gonna get their clocks cleaned again. We all laughed at Sega for committing the same blunders over and over, but looks like Nintendo's stuck in the same timewarp too. You know, kudos need to be given to MS here. They came in after the fact and did a decent job of establishing themselves in the US. Whether or not it pans out is still in question, but they've done a better job starting from scratch than Sega and Nintendo did coming from an established background. I think it's apparent that the old-school game companies are simply run by idiots who have lost touch with the market. To let outsiders like Sony and MS come through and own your so grandly is kinda embarassing. It's not a matter of capital and resources either. Nintendo has money in the bank, they're just gonna blow all of it now in a scramble to regain relevance. This price announcement came out of the blue. I certainly didn't anticipate it. It's the dagger they needed though. The hype machine has been dropkick-started now. We saw it with the PS1 and the PS2. Nintendo should definitely try to launch at $99 IMO. Oh, and get that damn Zelda out for the GC, ASAP. And why not port a REAL Pokemon game to the GC? The GB line's probably gonna die now, give the console owners a little Pokelove for a change. I think a PokemonGC game with all the whizbang graphics would offer a nice littler bump to the sales. But like I said, they're run by idiots. PEACE.

 

[ManaByte]

BUT TEH SCREEN WILL BE TEH SCRATCHES!

OWNED.

 

[Kon Tiki]

BUT TEH SCREEN WILL BE TEH SCRATCHES!

OWNED.

Also an Anti-theft device. Hoodlums will think it is a pair of glasses.

 

[JasoNsider]

You sound like only the guys in Nintendo are working like animals but ignore the fact that there are way too many people working like animals all over the world. The world is like that, learn to accept it or fight if you think you can.

I'm definitely trying to fight it. I'm not saying in any way, shape, or form that Nintendo are the only one working like animals. I should probably just say that everyone is working like animals, but it seems to be coming down to who can buy out the customer's love. That's not cool. I don't care who does it - Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft - I don't like the idea that interesting ideas might be potentially glossed over because a large company can throw their weight around. I'm sure you see where I'm getting at here.

Something has to arouse interest to get attention, when something didn't get the attention that you want, you should blame that something than the people.

I'm not sure I fully agree with this. Whose fault was it when (arguably) one of the best systems to ever see the light of day in this industry fell with the Dreamcast? Outside of Sega's business mistakes, who do we blame? Many people will tell you that the quality was most certainly there, but the end users didn't give it enough support. This is the fault of the gamers, not the developers.

When the idea is ripe enough to be taken, they will be accepted, much like the EYE TOY which still has a lot of problems to be solved, but still enjoyable under certain conditions.

This I agree with to a certain extent, and disagree with on a different level. I agree that something will often be accepted when the time is right - like DVD. VHS had been around for a long time and the people slowly started to want something more. However, where I disagree is with cases like the DS, where a company actually comes up with a new product (note: to most people, touch screen and voice recognition are brand new) that tries to deviate from the norm. The DS, as far as I can tell, is a quality product that has the disadvantage of having less attachments to existing game platforms. It's just something new altogether for most people. I was just saying that it's worrying how much you need to sell people on new ideas, but "enhanced" existing ideas are a breeze to market. In my eyes, it should be the other way around.

 

[jarrod]

Well, ep and border (and others) chimed in with the same opinion as me. Nintendo is making the same mistakes they did with the console business.

So...

-Draconian 3rd party policies
-Expensive, low storage format
-Difficult development environment
-Last to launch
-Most expensive, highest spec chipset


...are Nintendo's mistakes with DS?

 

[mrklaw]

I love this impression that Nintendo is this big cuddly fluffy dog that just wants to love everyone.

Sure, they make some magical games, and have some talented people working there. But they are a massive corporation, that makes as much, if not more money than Sony (depending what you are measuring)

Its OK. If you don't buy a DS, a fairy won't really die.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Too late for that. Just as someone said they can't imagine who can't be excited about DS who claims to like videogames, I say that you can't like videogames and not see how obvious it is that PSP is going to kill DS.

:lol

 

[Razoric]

I love this impression that Nintendo is this big cuddly fluffy dog that just wants to love everyone.

Sure, they make some magical games, and have some talented people working there. But they are a massive corporation, that makes as much, if not more money than Sony (depending what you are measuring)

Its OK. If you don't buy a DS, a fairy won't really die.

:lol I was thinking the same thing. A certain Nsider is a little too obsessed with Nintendo I think. Wow...

 

[maskrider]

I'm definitely trying to fight it. I'm not saying in any way, shape, or form that Nintendo are the only one working like animals. I should probably just say that everyone is working like animals, but it seems to be coming down to who can buy out the customer's love. That's not cool. I don't care who does it - Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft - I don't like the idea that interesting ideas might be potentially glossed over because a large company can throw their weight around. I'm sure you see where I'm getting at here.

I'm not sure I fully agree with this. Whose fault was it when (arguably) one of the best systems to ever see the light of day in this industry fell with the Dreamcast? Outside of Sega's business mistakes, who do we blame? Many people will tell you that the quality was most certainly there, but the end users didn't give it enough support. This is the fault of the gamers, not the developers.

Arouse interest is the art here, in terms of consumer products. Excellent product idea doesn't usually get you too far. Your supposed customers have to find your product valuable and interesting to them to get their money. No matter how much money you throw at marketing, If they are not interested then it will still fail, e.g. X-BOX in Japan.

This I agree with to a certain extent, and disagree with on a different level. I agree that something will often be accepted when the time is right - like DVD. VHS had been around for a long time and the people slowly started to want something more. However, where I disagree is with cases like the DS, where a company actually comes up with a new product (note: to most people, touch screen and voice recognition are brand new) that tries to deviate from the norm. The DS, as far as I can tell, is a quality product that has the disadvantage of having less attachments to existing game platforms. It's just something new altogether for most people. I was just saying that it's worrying how much you need to sell people on new ideas, but "enhanced" existing ideas are a breeze to market. In my eyes, it should be the other way around.

Because they are easy to understand, much like the "home networking" concept that was a buzz word in the CE industry for some years already but the idea has never been understood by the public.

Who's failure is it ? The consumer ? You cannot change them, you can only try to teach them, if you can't, it is your failure. You have to at least arouse their interest to pay attention to your products.

Sony is smart in this area.

 

[xsarien]

The DS is designed to make users migrate from GBA.

Where'd you get this from? Just because it can play GBA games doesn't mean the DS is a $150 memo to GBA owners saying "UPGRADE! UPGRADE! UPGRADE!"

 

[border]

Where'd you get this from? Just because it can play GBA games doesn't mean the DS is a $150 memo to GBA owners saying "UPGRADE! UPGRADE! UPGRADE!"

Backwards compatibility is inherently an initiative to encourage users to migrate. It allows them to sell off their old hardware (thus reducing an already low new hardware cost) and play all their old games without having to maintain two different hardware setups.

 

[Link316]

the PSP could launch at $179, 19800 yen is closer to $179 than $199

 

[xsarien]

Backwards compatibility is inherently an initiative to encourage users to migrate. It allows them to sell off their old hardware (thus reducing an already low new hardware cost) and play all their old games without having to maintain two different hardware setups.

It may be an enticement, but it's certainly not an initiative. The Game Boy platform does have pros over the DS: Longer battery life, compatibility with GB/GBC games, and being smaller. Hell, for about $30, the GBA can have the same short-range, wireless gaming that the DS offers.

There are plenty of people who will look at both and be perfectly willing to either keep the GBA indefinitely, or just wait until the next proper Game Boy, whatever that might be.

 

[sprsk]

Also an Anti-theft device. Hoodlums will think it is a pair of glasses.

er, i doubt that.

im curious to see if that neck strap is buttoned or if thats just their for aestetics.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

This is as if Next-Gen's crazy theory about GCN launching at $99 turned out to be true.

I know that people won't believe me, but I can guarantee you that at that price Sony is losing over 3 man per unit.

That's not a price point. That's fucking genocide.

Step 1: Lose 3 man
Step 2: ????
Step 3: Profit

I'll never understand why people who don't own shares in a company give a shit about their profits. They're not gonna price themselves into bankruptcy, so let 'em do as they will.

Yeah, companies never go out of business or become shells of their old selves due to money problems.

It'd be a bigger surprise than this if it launched higher in the US than it does in Japan.

Well, they are filling in different roles. In Japan it looks like they want to make sure DS is stillborn. Launching months later and out of the holiday timeframe in the US is a whole different beast.


(Writing this reply is taking forever. Every time I read a new page... a new one has appeared.)

I wonder if nintendo is gonna lower the ds price now that they know the psp one?

It's possible. They did drop the N64 price before launch.



My prediction for Nintendo's response: Make the most of their US head start, hurry development of Pokémon Diamond/Pearl, and see what happens with Sony's overall financials. They can save a price cut for later next year... not like PSP will have one by then.

 

[Soul4ger]

To be fair, you'd be stupid not to say that the actual price is like $249, because most sane people will likely want an extra battery and a memory stick and all that shit. But even still, $249 was under what I expected, and that was just for the system. This deal = Amazing, IMO. This piece just needs some games, now.

 

[jarrod]

the PSP could launch at $179, 19800 yen is closer to $179 than $199

I think it's more likely they follow Nintendo's plan (1 yen for 1 dollar) and price at $199. That way it maintains a similar ceiling over DS... what if Sony comes in at $179 and Nintendo panicks and then drops to $99-129? Can Sony go even lower?

 

[snapty00]

Holy shit. If this becomes the price in the U.S. too ($199), then Nintendo won't be the handheld leader much longer. This is like fucking 1997 all over again.

Man, I hope Nintendo makes the best out of it's few-month launch advance over PSP in the U.S. 2005 is going to be a rough year for Nintendo.

 

[Insertia]

Sony kind of fucked this one up. With their prices (NDS and PSP) relatively close (around $80 with all necessities), this was their chance to get a lead on the DS, but instead they're only launching in one region with only half of the DS's shipment in that region (1 million vs. 500,000 by the end of 2004 in Japan).

Nintendo isn't shipping 1 million to Japan. That 1 mill is being split between Europe, Aus, and Jpn.

 

[king zell]

the PSP could launch at $179, 19800 yen is closer to $179 than $199

the price is actualy 20,790 yen .. that means about $195

games for 5,040 that is around $47

 

[seismologist]

It may be an enticement, but it's certainly not an initiative. The Game Boy platform does have pros over the DS: Longer battery life, compatibility with GB/GBC games, and being smaller. Hell, for about $30, the GBA can have the same short-range, wireless gaming that the DS offers.

There are plenty of people who will look at both and be perfectly willing to either keep the GBA indefinitely, or just wait until the next proper Game Boy, whatever that might be.

BC is a pretty big selling point for me. I'll trade in my SP and get
+bigger screen
+4 face buttons
+backliting
+better graphics
+touch pad
+dual screens
+wifi suport

for $100. That kind of upgrade is almost a no brainer.

 

[jarrod]

Nintendo isn't shipping 1 million to Japan. That 1 mill is being split between Europe, Aus, and Jpn.

Er, no... Nintendo's shipping 1 million to Japan and 1 million to America in 2004. They'll ship an additional 2 million worldwide by next March (split between JP/NA/EU).

 

[border]

for $100. That kind of upgrade is almost a no brainer.

Yes, the reasons to "keep" a GBA are pretty meager. The battery life will probably be about the same when running GBA games, and getting a $30 wireless peripheral for the GBA is stuipd since you are gambling that everyone else will buy it too.

 

[Kon Tiki]

Too late for that. Just as someone said they can't imagine who can't be excited about DS who claims to like videogames, I say that you can't like videogames and not see how obvious it is that PSP is going to kill DS.

Is the DS a brand of battery?

 

[xsarien]

Yes, the reasons to "keep" a GBA are pretty meager. The battery life will probably be about the same when running GBA games, and getting a $30 wireless peripheral for the GBA is stuipd since you are gambling that everyone else will buy it too.

Considering they're also bundled with two Pokemon games, a whole shitload of people will also be getting them for free.

 

[jarrod]

Yes, the reasons to "keep" a GBA are pretty meager. The battery life will probably be about the same when running GBA games, and getting a $30 wireless peripheral for the GBA is stuipd since you are gambling that everyone else will buy it too.

Actually, DS should last a little longer than a stock GBA when playing GBA games thanks to it's larger capacity battery.

 

[Link316]

I think it's more likely they follow Nintendo's plan (1 yen for 1 dollar) and price at $199.

not really cause Sony doesn't do that for PS2

what if Sony comes in at $179 and Nintendo panicks and then drops to $99-129? Can Sony go even lower?

same can be said for Nintendo, can they go lower than $149? if they start moving towards the $99 range they'll also start cannibalizing their GBASP sales

 

[Soul4ger]

not really cause Sony doesn't do that for PS2



same can be said for Nintendo, can they go lower than $149? if they start moving towards the $99 range they'll also start cannibalizing their GBASP sales

They can choose to either cannibalize their own sales, or lose them to someone else completely. What would you have them do?

 

[Mrbob]

I think it's more likely they follow Nintendo's plan (1 yen for 1 dollar) and price at $199. That way it maintains a similar ceiling over DS... what if Sony comes in at $179 and Nintendo panicks and then drops to $99-129? Can Sony go even lower?

Would Sony need to go lower than $179? Even if the DS is $99 the PSP at $179 (Or $199) is a superior value. The real question is if Nintendo can afford to go lower as they may cannabilize GBA SP sales by doing so.


Ahh this thread is wonderous. In one early morning the Nintendo DS has been

 

[jarrod]

not really cause Sony doesn't do that for PS2

So you expect Sony to follow PS2 pricing in regards to PSP? We can all expect to pay only about $110 for our PSPs here?

same can be said for Nintendo, can they go lower than $149? if they start moving towards the $99 range they'll also start cannibalizing their GBASP sales

Actually $129 keeps a pretty good difference. I'd say only at $99 is the psychological barrier broken.

Then again, what if Nintendo drops DS to $99 and GBASP to $69?

 

[RMX]

Gamers will make the difference.
wait for sales number

Rendez vous in March 2005.
Some may be disapointed...but gamers are the winners !

 

[Insertia]

Er, no... Nintendo's shipping 1 million to Japan and 1 million to America in 2004. They'll ship an additional 2 million worldwide by next March (split between JP/NA/EU).

yeah, i read the PR incorrectly.

 

[drohne]

the real nightmare scenario for nintendo will occur if they're not price-gouging on the ds. what if off-the-shelf hardware and lazy engineering mean that it costs around $150 to build? we know that their audience doesn't buy enough games to offset losses on hardware (and it's an open question whether sony's will).

i expect the psp to stay at $200 for a good, long time. regardless of what nintendo does. that's a damned impressive price compared to other portable entertainment devices, and no legitimate competitors are on the horizon.

 

[king zell]

Ahh this thread is wonderous. In one early morning the Nintendo DS has been

DS if far from owned

FF III isn't revealed yet.. not to mention Jump Super Stars or Pokemon Diamond & Pearl

those will really make the difference

 

[snapty00]

Nah, "0wn3d" is definitely a reflective term on the status of DS right now. Sure, it isn't all bad, and I have a know that DS will be more relevant than GameCube is, but this definitely marks the end of Nintendo's dominance of the handheld industry.

This is sorta like removing a communist regime.

 

[cja]

A very nice price point but I don't see why this'll mean doom for DS. Sony are charging 5,760 Yen ($54) more for a machine without touchscreen, secondary LAN capability, microphone, second screen, GBA BC and game saves built into media. In return you get one bigger screen, flash MP3 player and the hardware difference between a N64 and DC. Outside of graphics whores I don't see consumers thinking they're getting a huge bargain with PSP. If bang per buck was a deal maker GC would be outselling PS2 and Xbox .

 

[sonycowboy]

To be fair, you'd be stupid not to say that the actual price is like $249, because most sane people will likely want an extra battery and a memory stick and all that shit. But even still, $249 was under what I expected, and that was just for the system. This deal = Amazing, IMO. This piece just needs some games, now.

It doesn't include an extra battery. The extra items are the

1) 32MB memory stick duo,
2) headphone w/ remote control
3) Soft case and a hand strap