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[Cyberpunkd]

Good news: https://www.newsweek.com/eu-rearm-europe-plan-billions-2039139

The European Commission head said she had written a letter to the leaders of the European governments to outline a "set of proposals" to "rearm Europe."

It details "how to use all the financial levers at our disposal in order to help member states to quickly and significantly increase expenditures in defense capabilities, urgently now, but also over [a] longer period of time, over this decade," von der Leyen said.

As part of the proposal, countries in the bloc will have access to loans of up to €150 billion, or just shy of $158 billion, for defense investment. The plan will also mean activating what is known as an "escape clause" for EU countries in a set of rules that currently govern how member states manage their public finances.

Can't help but to post this:



French military is self-sufficient and everything has been developed in France
French energy sector is self sufficient with 57 operable nuclear reactors

 

[Maiden Voyage]

That’s a lot of money to spend before ultimately waving a white flag.

 

[Bojji]

That’s a lot of money to spend before ultimately waving a white flag.

What? No one wants WW3.

Strong EU armies will work as deterrent.

 

[Hookshot]

An EU army will be turned on misbehavers like Hungary or Catalonia before Russia

 

[Bojji]

An EU army will be turned on misbehavers like Hungary or Catalonia before Russia

This is not Soviet union. No one stops Hungary from example from leaving EU.

 

[Topher]

That’s a lot of money to spend before ultimately waving a white flag.

 

[OverHeat]

That’s a lot of money to spend before ultimately waving a white flag.

Ice Cold!!!! Hahahaha

 

[rm082e]

I hate the timeline that lead to this decision, but I'm glad it seems like Europe is taking this seriously and stepping up. I hope it translates into meaningful defensive action.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

This is not Soviet union. No one stops Hungary from example from leaving EU.

Exactly this, they can GTFO if they want to be so close to Russia, let's see what the general populace will say about that.

 

[chakadave]

Doesn't mean anything. Best defenses are armed populations that have freedom they want to defend. EU is a hodgepodge of immigrants and white guilt.

Like the UK or Germany. Who wants to defend a country that sends police to arrest or fine you for internet posts?

 

[Erebus]

I guess they finally realized that they can't depend on US anymore.

 

[Trogdor1123]

The world is getting to a very scary place.

 

[Atrus]

There certainly needs to be a reorienting away from American weapons. Pax Americana won’t last forever and based on recent events will end sooner than later.

Europe also needs its own tech sector so that foreign billionaires can’t just turn things off the moment they bow to China or Russia.

 

[poppabk]

That’s a lot of money to spend before ultimately waving a white flag.

Americans will never forgive the French for helping them win their independence.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Europe also needs its own tech sector so that foreign billionaires can’t just turn things off the moment they bow to China or Russia.

I'm sure Europe can survive without Instagram, Facebook or another flavor of the month martech SAAS product.

 

[Kacho]

Strong EU armies will work as deterrent.

In theory, sure. They have a lot of work to do.

 

[Bojji]

I guess they finally realized that they can't depend on US anymore.

USA is pretty much Russian ally at this moment.

Really upside down world right now.

 

[SJRB]

Europe is a joke and I think they only very recently realized they're a laughing stock and not being taken seriously by any of the world's superpowers.

Nobody in the EU actually wants an EU army. Nobody voted for this. Nobody actually wants 800 BILLION spent on something as retarded as that when there are quite other very real and very problematic issues going on in a lot of its countries.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

I guess they finally realized that they can't depend on US anymore.

To be fair, we already told them that a while ago.

 

[jason10mm]

Americans will never forgive the French for helping them win their independence.

We named sugary egg drenched stale bread and highly salted slivers of potato fried in seed oil after you guys, what more do you want?

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Europe is a joke and I think they only very recently realized they're a laughing stock and not being taken seriously by any of the world's superpowers.

Nobody in the EU actually wants an EU army. Nobody voted for this. Nobody actually wants 800 BILLION spent on something as retarded as that when there are quite other very real and very problematic issues going on in a lot of its countries.

 

[jason10mm]

USA is pretty much Russian ally at this moment.

Really upside down world right now.

The hell you say?

Let's take a look at who is buying all that russian oil/gas, keeping them afloat....

Oh hey, look. It's EUROPE sending them all that cheddar, along with China (now). Where is the US in all this?

Other than vodka and buxom women, Russia has nothing we want.

 

[AJUMP23]

They still going to buy all their petroleum from Russia?

I think it is a great thing for the European countries to prepare for their own defense and increase their defense spending. They barely contribute to NATO and mostly rely on US spending and presence for their defense.

From what I understand the person talking about this in the EU is an unelected bureaucrat. They do not gain their power from the people but from the appointment of a body of regulators. Europe should focus on a lot of things other than Russia/china. They should look to generate their own energy, France has nuclear tech that could help Europe gain self sufficiency. Turkey a NATO member is very friendly with Russia. I think European countries should also stop the flow of immigration and placing immigrants on never ending social benefits.

this thread will be locked. 20 points to the OP.

50 points to Maiden Voyage for that sick burn.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Other than vodka and buxom women, Russia has nothing we want.

That is for sure not how the US is behaving.

 

[Kilau]

Good, the EU should be able to defend itself and not rely on the USA.

 

[Rush2112]

Time to stop leeching money off of America.

 

[BlackTron]

Europe is a joke and I think they only very recently realized they're a laughing stock and not being taken seriously by any of the world's superpowers.

Nobody in the EU actually wants an EU army. Nobody voted for this. Nobody actually wants 800 BILLION spent on something as retarded as that when there are quite other very real and very problematic issues going on in a lot of its countries.

Those problems would fix themselves and go away on their own after being trampled by the Red Army!

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

God bless. Led by emperor sir kier starmer

 

[LordCBH]

Good. It’s well beyond time for the countries of the world to take a serious approach to their defense.

 

[AJUMP23]

I love the smell of politics in the morning.


I mean Trump is getting what he wants from the EU. He has wanted them to spend money for their own defense and they are starting to do that. They are doing it out of spite, but who cares if you get what you want.

 

[BlackTron]

Time to stop leeching money off of America.

America enjoyed nigh incalculable benefits being the "big daddy" and arbiter of the world. All our allies trusted us so implicitly that they didn't need to arm -and became more agreeable to us, because we had the most leverage and cooperated on security. The costs of abandoning our allies will be far greater. This isn't rocket science, if you've ever messed with allegiance checkboxes in a RTS game you know what happens lol. All those allies in the back doing nothing but mining? Suddenly they stop trade and make army. Even if they don't fight you, losing their cooperation and predictability has damaged your security. What will we do next, threaten and bully them into acting the same way as when we handled security? Bad path.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing for Europe to arm, far from it, but getting there because America thinks they're leeches in the middle of Russian aggression is exactly the worst reason humanly possible.

Basically we're shifting from "respect us because we stood for the free world and saved you" to "respect us because we are biggest and have the most leverage to bully if you don't agree". Catastrophic for the stability of the world.

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

good. fuck america. can't trust them anymore.

 

[BlackTron]

Before this thing gets deleted and locked. After commenting months ago about deploying the military on liberal cities for "security" during the next election, Trump answered no he's not talking about immigrants, he's talking about democrats.

Combine this with the fact that as soon as he took office he fired the top JAGs -military lawyers responsible for ensuring unlawful orders aren't followed. These are meant to be non-political appointments. They didn't even try to cover the reason for the firings, they straight said they did it because they don't want orders blocked. The new appointments are cronies, get ready for martial law.

 

[jason10mm]

Basically we're shifting from "respect us because we stood for the free world and saved you" to "respect us because we are biggest and have the most leverage to bully if you don't agree". Catastrophic for the stability of the world.

That goodwill has looooooong since gone. We could probably still call in debts from the Marshall Plan just to underscore that the US has financially, as well as militarily, and until relatively recently, culturally, supported Europe. But the US simply can't keep funding its war machine. We are (over)due for a MASSIVE infrastructure overhaul and the only way to get it done is to trim back those carrier battle groups and fleets or armored vehicles. And as we can see from Ukraine, all that shit can be wiped out overnight by drone swarms costing 100X times less.

I personally think we are about to see a major global 'realignment', to put it mildly, across eurasia. The US COULD chose to ride it out as we are one of the few places that can feed, power, and defend ourselves simultaneously. While I think there might be a semi-viable way for the US to spearhead a much less traumatic version of this realignment, it would still involve having to do things that gets us ROASTED in the press and it's just easier to pull back and watch than bear the brunt of leadership.

 

[Schmendrick]

 

[BlackTron]

That goodwill has looooooong since gone. We could probably still call in debts from the Marshall Plan just to underscore that the US has financially, as well as militarily, and until relatively recently, culturally, supported Europe. But the US simply can't keep funding its war machine. We are (over)due for a MASSIVE infrastructure overhaul and the only way to get it done is to trim back those carrier battle groups and fleets or armored vehicles. And as we can see from Ukraine, all that shit can be wiped out overnight by drone swarms costing 100X times less.

I personally think we are about to see a major global 'realignment', to put it mildly, across eurasia. The US COULD chose to ride it out as we are one of the few places that can feed, power, and defend ourselves simultaneously. While I think there might be a semi-viable way for the US to spearhead a much less traumatic version of this realignment, it would still involve having to do things that gets us ROASTED in the press and it's just easier to pull back and watch than bear the brunt of leadership.

Of course the goodwill was eroding. We were pretty much coasting on the status quo. We could have maintained it or at very least left it open; instead we blasted it to smithereens never to ever return.

Somehow we decided principles mattered when the invasion started, until it got too expensive. Our shortsightedness will cost us far more both directly and indirectly than we ever sent over there. But then we may never have gotten involved in WW2 if we weren't attacked by Japan so hey guess they should be happy we showed up at all this time without having to get back at someone. We should have just waited for Germany to take all of Europe then surprise us with a full gas tank because America First.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

America enjoyed nigh incalculable benefits being the "big daddy" and arbiter of the world.

This is what people forget + America made billions selling US arms worldwide.

 

[poppabk]

That goodwill has looooooong since gone. We could probably still call in debts from the Marshall Plan just to underscore that the US has financially, as well as militarily, and until relatively recently, culturally, supported Europe. But the US simply can't keep funding its war machine. We are (over)due for a MASSIVE infrastructure overhaul and the only way to get it done is to trim back those carrier battle groups and fleets or armored vehicles. And as we can see from Ukraine, all that shit can be wiped out overnight by drone swarms costing 100X times less.

I personally think we are about to see a major global 'realignment', to put it mildly, across eurasia. The US COULD chose to ride it out as we are one of the few places that can feed, power, and defend ourselves simultaneously. While I think there might be a semi-viable way for the US to spearhead a much less traumatic version of this realignment, it would still involve having to do things that gets us ROASTED in the press and it's just easier to pull back and watch than bear the brunt of lleadership.

If you think that military spending is going to be meaningfully reduced in the long term then I have a M1074 Joint Assault Bridge System to sell you.

 

[BlackTron]

This is what people forget + America made billions selling US arms worldwide.

Shortsightedness, greed, and egotism will destroy us.

 

[FeralEcho]

Europe is a joke and I think they only very recently realized they're a laughing stock and not being taken seriously by any of the world's superpowers.

Nobody in the EU actually wants an EU army. Nobody voted for this. Nobody actually wants 800 BILLION spent on something as retarded as that when there are quite other very real and very problematic issues going on in a lot of its countries.

The only recent realization has been that America is led by pretty much a circus parade with a bunch of children in suits trying to act like adults but failing miserably. No one will take this country seriously for a long time after that sham of a "negociation meeting" with Ukraine which is why such changes are taking place.

The forefathers of the USA must be turning in their graves for how embarassing that political display was for the entire world to see.

 

[SJRB]

The only recent realization has been that America is led by pretty much a circus parade with a bunch of children in suits trying to act like adults but failing miserably. No one will take this country seriously for a long time after that sham of a "negociation meeting" with Ukraine which is why such changes are taking place.

The forefathers of the USA must be turning in their graves for how embarassing that political display was for the entire world to see.

Did you see the full 50 minutes?

 

[NickFire]

The only recent realization has been that America is led by pretty much a circus parade with a bunch of children in suits trying to act like adults but failing miserably. No one will take this country seriously for a long time after that sham of a "negociation meeting" with Ukraine which is why such changes are taking place.

The forefathers of the USA must be turning in their graves for how embarassing that political display was for the entire world to see.

Sure. If you say so. Yawn.

 

[jason10mm]

Of course the goodwill was eroding. We were pretty much coasting on the status quo. We could have maintained it or at very least left it open; instead we blasted it to smithereens never to ever return.

Somehow we decided principles mattered when the invasion started, until it got too expensive. Our shortsightedness will cost us far more both directly and indirectly than we ever sent over there. But then we may never have gotten involved in WW2 if we weren't attacked by Japan so hey guess they should be happy we showed up at all this time without having to get back at someone. We should have just waited for Germany to take all of Europe then surprise us with a full gas tank because America First.

I think folks were WAAAAAAY overestimating how well Ukraine could resist Russia on such a small front. It would be like stopping the US from invading the northern part of Mexico. Stopping the invasion is almost impossible just by 'supporting' the Ukranian troops from afar.

Russia is bankrupting itself in this conflict. You could call a ceasefire today and just holding the current occupied territories could be beyond Russia's capability, much less expanding to other neighboring countries. It's ssssssssoooooooooooooooooooo expensive, history is littered with countries deepsixing themselves in this very fashion. The notion that Poland is 'next' with 5x the GDP of Ukraine is ludicrous.

Of course it's the nuclear threat that is really making this scenario possible, the West COULD conventionally end Russia's ability to project power, but doing so might trigger a nuclear response so we have these "rules".

The US has been meddling with other countries for decades. Fear of communism or just favored trade with the wrong other country, it's not really "goodwill" in those instances but semi-polite coercion. Now with relatively stable global trade and nigh instantaneous communication, we need a better way to align countries self-interests with their market contributions. Big chunks of Africa, for example, are LOADED with resources but the majority of folks live in poverty. We brought them better child mortality stats but little else, now they are flooding out looking for opportunities their own country refuses to give them.

 

[BlackTron]

Did you see the full 50 minutes?

He missed the part where they secretly kissed and made up

 

[FullMetalx117]

All this military spending is cringe, world going opposite direction of where its supposed to go...leaders who worked so hard after the Great War, World War 2 to setup league of nations/UN/other unifying measures to prevent catastrophe are rolling in their graves.

What does this $800 billion mean, where does it go? Hell where does the U.S. military budget go? Most goes to defense firms like Raytheon, Lockheed Martin and affiliates who are some of biggest hirers of fresh college grads. The spending its embedded in the system, its necessary for employment. Those weapons dont even get used, its just necessary to continue this economic train and keep people employed.

With all that said, it has come to this because there is a constituency that believes other countries are not paying their fair share and worried about superficial things like national debt, balancing the budget, etc. Have news flash for you - national debt can do down, budget can be in surplus, and your personal life will not improve whatsoever.

 

[FeralEcho]

Sure. If you say so. Yawn.

Same disrespectful demeanor as your president. Amazing, you'll go far in life!

 

[Azzurri]

good. fuck america. can't trust them anymore.

Until they need us again.

 

[FeralEcho]

Did you see the full 50 minutes?

Actually no,but after the first 10 gaslighting attempts by a "president" of a country it's hard to continue taking whatever he says seriously.

 

[FF:Enhanced_Reality]

It's a shame that France and most of Europe is completely fucked

Look at the UK, our armed forces are mainly filled with folk who are pretty much pushed into it by their parents, a lot of them are folk with few skills who have come through things like the duke of York qualifications.

We've dismantled our military bit by bit over the years.

I'm just glad we have Trident and the SAS.

 

[BlackTron]

I think folks were WAAAAAAY overestimating how well Ukraine could resist Russia on such a small front. It would be like stopping the US from invading the northern part of Mexico. Stopping the invasion is almost impossible just by 'supporting' the Ukranian troops from afar.

Huh? People underestimated Ukraine in the beginning. Then they held their own leading to more support and a 3 year holdout. I don't understand this one.

Russia is bankrupting itself in this conflict.

Okay? If they want to stop bankrupting, they can leave.

You could call a ceasefire today and just holding the current occupied territories could be beyond Russia's capability, much less expanding to other neighboring countries. It's ssssssssoooooooooooooooooooo expensive, history is littered with countries deepsixing themselves in this very fashion. The notion that Poland is 'next' with 5x the GDP of Ukraine is ludicrous.

Russia gets to lick their wounds and rearm and by the time they capture a Ukraine starved of support, it'll be their GDP. Russia having a big issue with any boots on the ground in Ukraine even from EU countries makes it obvious their plan is still to take it one way or another. If it's during "peace" it will be through installing a leader.