XXL
Member
And this is exactly why the US should stop handing out money to everyone.
They don't even appreciate it.
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Oh sheeet, EU be juicing - $840 billion 'Rearm Europe' plan announced
- Thread starter Cyberpunkd
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They don't even appreciate it.
Ma-Yuan
Member
I can only hope not a single euro will be spend on a US weapons system after this backstab. By the speed this escalated so far in one month they will deliver weapons to Russia. I have never dreamed that i would consider the USA just one step away of being an actual existential threat to europe but here we are.Americans weren't bothered by massive military spendings before. By after they send some old military tech to Ukraine - OUTRAGE!
To me, you look fucking stupid believing maga propaganda.
USA is pretty much helping Russian army at this point:
Bojji
Member
You know that many people died because Trump is a fucking idiot? But who cares, right?
This, all equipment needs to be 100% EU made. Looks like UK and France will have to start making nuclear weapons again...
XXL
Member
What free world? What is Freedom in the rest of the world? I don't see anyone protecting the rights and freedoms of individuals.
A few weeks ago it didn't matter how many people were killed.
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Bojji
Member
"Free world" means USA, UK+Europe, Australia, Japan, SK and few others.
If you think that people in Europe are not free then think about what happens in countries that USA is aligned right now: NK, Iran, Russia? Russia is model state for Donald Trump and his best friend rules there.
BlackTron
Member
I would say that today the last defender of the free world is Ukraine with backup by the EU.
You need to explain what free is. Those countries you listed have no freedom of speech. get arrested for praying in public and none have the right to defend themselves or privately own firearms.
That is not "free". Some Orwellian definitions you got there.
It isn't an either or. Trump or any other president or even military in the entire world can not subject the American people under an authoritarian government. We are too well armed. Literally no one even if everyone teamed up and tried to invade the US the US population will still win.
The only way for the rest of the world to use force against the US would be to glass the entire planet. We don't need to rely on anyone for anything. And it's time that the rest of the world understood that. You can either support our values of individual rights and be involved with us in trade or go fight petty wars over what type of nanny state you want.
So conscription, no elections, martial law and no freedom of religion.
Tell me how do you define "freedom".
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XXL
Member
I didn't say Biden started the war.
Zelensky should take the deal Trump was offering.
The US could militarily take over everything if they choose to. Especially so, if they had 1 or 2 major allies.
On top of that. Most of the world relies on American companies, even down to social media, Amazon, YT, etc.
Just to be clear, I would prefer that not to happen.
But dont be confused, there is nothing anyone could do about it.
Hari Seldon
Member
Too many people need to chill in this thread. Trump cannot pull the US out of NATO without congressional approval, and there is too much discord amongst republicans for that to happen. So you still get to not spend anything on defense if you don’t want to, you just can’t project power until you do.
I’m 50/50 on continuing to support Ukraine. Putin is a shithead, but Ukraine is going to lose unless they get a lot more manpower. It is throwing money after bad, but at the end of the day it is not that much money relative to the rest of the budget.
Trump is not a Russian asset. Trump just hates Zelensky and Trudeau. Trudeau spent years attacking Trump for his own political gain, and now Trump is having his revenge.
I’m 50/50 on continuing to support Ukraine. Putin is a shithead, but Ukraine is going to lose unless they get a lot more manpower. It is throwing money after bad, but at the end of the day it is not that much money relative to the rest of the budget.
Trump is not a Russian asset. Trump just hates Zelensky and Trudeau. Trudeau spent years attacking Trump for his own political gain, and now Trump is having his revenge.
Bojji
Member
USA can't stop this war. What if Ukraine took the deal? Russians would stop war? Why? They have no reason to, USA didn't demand anything from Kremlin, Ukraine got NO security guarantees from Trump.
USA wouldn't win conventional war against many countries at the same time. What allies would help? Same allies that Trump treated like shit?
Zathalus
Member
So? His actions speak for themselves. Cutting off already promised aid and terminating all shared intelligence.
He claims he wants to broker peace, but strengthening Russias negotiation position and weakening what Ukraine has available to them is hardly assisting that. You don’t successfully kick off peace negotiations by preemptively giving one side everything it wants. Russia has zero reason to compromise on anything now, because Donald has already given them everything pro bono.
There is plenty of freedom and liberty in most EU countries. Here in the Netherlands the farmers get away with blocking off roads, or throwing literal shit at governmental buildings. You’re even legally allowed to verbally tell a police officer to fuck off. Freedom of religion is paramount here as well, I’ve been approached by every major Christian denomination. In Utrecht I have even seen the occasional Muslim kiosk pop up for people to come sit and have a discussion. Student protests and regular protests are all allowed as well.
BlackTron
Member
Presently the side with MAGA has more guns and their leader has made comments insinuating Democrats need their balls clipped come election time.
Armed Americans will be teaming up with the military to end democracy, not saving it. But make no mistake, it will be in the name of saving democracy.
delirium trigger
Member
All the pompous europeans are here to tell us how to spend our money. If there wasn't a war close t their soil they be poking fun of our military spending but since now it suits them...
And those get you nothing. You have no way to affirm those rights if things change. Meanwhile people are getting fined in Germany for internet posts. What happens if they don't pay the fines? What happens when they start conscripting you to fight Russia?
You don't understand gun culture or US politics at all.
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The Gamer Triple H
Gold Member
Americans weren't bothered by massive military spendings before. By after they send some old military tech to Ukraine - OUTRAGE!
To me, you look fucking stupid believing maga propaganda.
USA is pretty much helping Russian army at this point:
Maga propaganda? What proof do you have that I'm MAGA? Don't make assumptions about people you don't fucking know.
My god you are fucking retarded. This thread is filled with some of the most low iq, brain dead reddit tier takes I've seen in quite some time.
"Helping the Russian army" How exactly? Are we buying Russian oil and gas? For all the billions that we sent Ukraine in 4 plus years European countries are giving billions back to that 'Tyrant' Putin. What is the europoors excuse for this?
This shit will be irrelevant in 10 years when half of western Europe is majority Muslim. Do you expect the military age Muslim men (that you let flood your countries) will give a shit about the Russian threat?
You should worry about the threat from within.
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XXL
Member
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
Trump's undermining Europe and strengthening Russia. That makes him a russian asset. His reasons don't matter.
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Zathalus
Member
What happens when you don’t pay a fine in America? Do you wave a gun about and you suddenly don’t have to pay it? If America starts conscription for China, do you think having guns is going to make any difference at all? I don’t recall anything of the sort with people got conscripted for Vietnam.
Bojji
Member
You think I like idiocy that led to massive immigration and many countries being dependent on Russian resources for years? No.
But Russian threat is far more important RIGHT NOW than few millions Muslims living in Europe.
You may be Maga, may be not - who gives a fuck. You seem to eat up propaganda coming from White House. Trump is actively helping Russian army at this point by handicapping Ukrainians.
I love that you are calling me retarded and stupid. Civil discussion at its finest, you really are behaving like your beloved leader.
XXL
Member
Exactly. I don't think people understand this.
They have an insanely large and extremely well funded military (over 50% of Worldwide military spending)
.....and on top of that half of the country is basically ready to go to war asap.
Some entire countries militaries would have a tough time taking over Texas alone.
Virginia has more military equipment than all of Canada.
America even in its poorest areas is literally armed to the fucking teeth.
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It's kind of amazing seeing how weak the arguments are in this thread from Republicans and defenders of trumps actions. Like inch deep level logic. The world is laughing at you.
It is like a weak person's idea of what power and strength actually are.
Get ready for the biggest I told you so in history.
It is like a weak person's idea of what power and strength actually are.
Get ready for the biggest I told you so in history.
BlackTron
Member
Get real. Any honest assessment of their psychology dictates that they will find a way to blame anything bad that happens on Biden, possibly even Harris.
They are not capable of taking accountability for their actions, and will defend their ego at any cost. To the other side.
Hari Seldon
Member
For years Europe and Canada have attacked the US Republican Party in general, and Trump specifically, for their own domestic political gain. That is why they are not finding much support right now. There is a wide gulf between, “fuck off you limp dicked euros handle this shit yourselves” to pulling out of alliances and preparing to invade lmao.
XXL
Member
Exactly.
The US already defend the world from Europe. Multiple times.
How quickly people forget.
The US and (NA in general) has dealt with the issues of European extremists for long enough.
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
Rugpulling your allies and empowering fascist regimes because he's a snowflake? That's the excuse?
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Hari Seldon
Member
We are not and never have been allies with Ukraine (nor Taiwan thank fuck). Allies require a treaty ratified by congress.
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
I'm talking about Europe, but of course that needed to be clarified for you.
ThisIsMyDog
Member
How about making situation in region much worse for your so called "one of the best ally" Poland.
If a segment of the population didn't pay fines or taxes in the US the government couldn't do anything about it.
If Americans start getting drafted for a world war with China there will be civil unrest all across the US. China isn't going to be invading the US either way.
Yes. It makes a difference. The population of the US is holding a majority of the world's small arms. There isn't a way to occupy the US.
For Vietnam a lot of people dodged the draft. I just don't think the propaganda and lies the media will tell will work. The US is very fragile in a lot of ways. The power grid and infrastructure and supply chains are very susceptible to interruption. You could see It during covid. If things like that get broken no one will want to wage a war for the US government no matter who is in office. Basically WW3 or war with China means the US is done and it will balkanize and decentralize.
The agreements made after WW2 were never meant for Eastern Europe. East Germany wasn't even included. Also it wasn't a formal treaty. We don't have to honor anything.
No one alive today made those deals. Why do we have to "ally" at the cost of our own security and well being?
As discussed early the EU basically funded and made Russia rich by shutting down all their power plants. How is that not "empowering" fascists?
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Hari Seldon
Member
Yeah I don’t agree with this. But considering how much Europe laughed at Trump and used him for their own political gain this is not surprising at all to me. But again, this is not pulling out of NATO, this is using Europe for Trump’s political gain, just like they did with him.
Hypereides
Member
I'm just glad some of you Americans are sensible. The amount of "fuck EU" mantra posts in this thread is really something.
I hope you guys manage to pull through these next few years unscathed too. The shift that's been happening over in US, in such a short amount of time, goes beyond all reason.
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
Maybe out of respect for them coming to your aid after 9/11?
Wut? What does this have to do with anything? Was the US in danger after 9/11? Did we really need support or permission to start bombing the middle east? Europe couldn't have stopped the US from bombing the Middle East if they wanted to.
Forgetting the fact the whole War on Terror was built on lies the US made up.
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ThisIsMyDog
Member
NATO is not formal treaty?
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
You just enacted article 5 for shits and giggles eh?
Yeah. What country was responsible for 9/11? hint: we didn't invade that country.
NATO is only a thing because of the US. You all act like Europe has any say in something like this.
Also the original mission is way over stepped. We also agreed to never expand it yet here we are. It isn't a thing because there is no Soviet Union and It has overstayed its welcome. Everyone is just taking advantage of the US.
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Bojji
Member
Yep, "fuck all the papers we signed"!
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
And what does that have to do with you requesting aid?
ThisIsMyDog
Member
So you didn't even answer my question, i'm sorry but you just spitting some propaganda here and there and nothing else, discussion with you is pointless.
Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations - Office of the Historian
history.state.gov 3.0 shell
history.state.gov
So in effect it shouldn't exist any more. Unless you believe the Soviet Union still exists in some way.
As I said NATO was also never meant to expand eastward of its original countries.
Add to that the other countries have not fulfilled their duties. So the US has every right to leave and not abide by this agreement.
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Hari Seldon
Member
Yeah I think the lesson learned here for all involved is to not insert yourself into other countries domestic politics. This was much easier pre-internet before Euros started criticizing America to Americans 24/7 for the past 20 years.
Bojji
Member
Living in the bubble is good? North Koreans think their country is the best...
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Any second now
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
We're regressing back to abject poverty. May as well go all the way I guess. I've always wanted to live like it's the 18th century anyway
Bojji
Member
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