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[brian0057]

You're correct but how is this some thoughtful take? You charge what the market will bear. If customers are willing to pay $70, you should charge $70. If they're willing to pay $200, that's what you should charge. God forbig a company in a market economy tries to maximize its profits. Wasn't GAF meant to be right-leaning lately?

Capitalism is the best resource allocation system there is

I agree with that premise. Things cost what people are willing to pay and companies want to make money.
What I'm arguing is that any justification for the price that isn't "because we can" is complete horsesh*t.
Nintendo knows that people will pay a lot for their games, so they rarely ever go on sale. At least they're honest about it.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

I agree with that premise. Things cost what people are willing to pay and companies want to make money.
What I'm arguing is that any justification for the price that isn't "because we can" is complete horsesh*t.
Nintendo knows that people will pay a lot for their games, so they rarely ever go on sale. At least they're honest about it.

Sure you're correct.

 

[cartman414]

You're correct but how is this some thoughtful take? You charge what the market will bear. If customers are willing to pay $70, you should charge $70. If they're willing to pay $200, that's what you should charge. God forbid a company in a market economy tries to maximize its profits. Wasn't GAF meant to be right-leaning lately?

Capitalism is the best resource allocation system there is

Yep, that's why it's so hard to exploit. Wait a sec...

 

[Kagey K]

I mean I could pay 70.00 for each game that comes out, or i could not, and instead pay my mortgage off in 10 years (done) and be buying a Lexus GX460 this week, while also buying games at discount or using a subscription service.

I wonder which most would choose.

 

[TonyK]

70$ is too much for a game, but I pay it because there are a lot of people paying for alcohol at clubs and overall consensus is that prices are ok (or at least they pay them weekend after weekend). So 70$ for a AAA game sounds cheap in comparison.

 

[zokie]

well i just wanna say that depending on the IP , i will pay $70 on Day 1 for games like FFXVI , FFVII Rebirth , BOTW Sequel , RE4 remaster and more....

i did pay for certain sony exclusives on Day 1 but it was was on my backlog and after a while it on sale further than 50% and it was even given free on PSN ( coughs.... that game is on my avatar but i still love it )

So yeah , some multiplatform games or certain console exclusive games i will wait for digital sale

 

[SmokedMeat]

At least $30 of which came from the ROM size.

Not to mention cartridge manufacturing costs, you received a full color instruction booklet and maybe a map, retailers got a cut of the sales, and you were selling to a smaller audience.

 

[Putonahappyface]

Just buy physical online and never pay £70 again problem solved.

 

[OldBoyGamer]

Opinion: (dev costs not necessarily the $70 price tag)

The fact that the cost of games dev has gone through the roof in the past couple of years is something that is propagated by AAA publishers such as MS, Sony, EA, Tencent etc.

They have started to throw money at people in an attempt to recruit the hundreds of people need for a AAA game.

They are throwing their financial muscles around and paying silly money for developers of all XP and disciplines.

One recruiter I spoke to told me that one AAA studio were hiring one role where the salary cap was ‘whatever they want’

The knock on effects to this will be felt long in the industry imo.

 

[RasAlGhoul]

Thread could just be renamed to OP doesn’t understand basic economics.

 

[Fuz]

I'M LOSING MONEY HERE, GUYS! YOU NEED TO GIVE ME MORE!​

\|​

 

[brian0057]

Thread could just be renamed to OP doesn’t understand basic economics.

Of course it's basic economics.
It's the lies I have a problem with.

 

[PanzerAzel]

What I'm arguing is that any justification for the price that isn't "because we can" is complete horsesh*t.

How? There are certain market realities that need to be abided by in order for a company to gain RoI relative to the costs of production, distribution, marketing, etc. It's not an altruistic endevour. To say that any of these considerations in bringing a product to bear in that market past the point of "because we can" is horseshit grants no allowance for hardline economic and logistical realities required to do so. There's absolutely a "because we must" before "because we can" if they're to remain viable in the market.

I mean yeah, there's a certain line past that that companies test by pushing value propositions up to the point the market is willing to bear and embrace them in capitalizing as much as they can, but that doesn't negate the fact that they require money to do what they're doing.

 

[chriskun]

I can’t believe the lack of basic economic understanding the OP and his supporters have. Maybe once he gets promoted to management at H&M he’ll have a little more context(I work in retail so I can make this joke)

 

[Chiggs]

I can't wait for TLOU Remake. Totally worth the $70.

 

[Three]

Of course it's basic economics.
It's the lies I have a problem with.

Who is lying about what?

 

[64bitmodels]

Who is lying about what?

less lies and more really badly made excuses to justify the extra 10 dollars

 

[Three]

less lies and more really badly made excuses to justify the extra 10 dollars

What are the excuses that are lies? All I see is that Rockstar shouldn't have spent money modeling horse testicle but what if I like attention to detail in my games? That's actually what makes RDR a rockstar game their believable world with insane attention to detail.
He is asking for cutbacks in what is produced. Inflation, inflation is real too. The only thing I can agree on is the $70 game without microtransactions actually having microtransactions but here is the thing, you can do that on a case by case bases. The next COD MW is $70 and has microtransactions, sure go nuts, complain, don't buy it, whatever but what about quality games that are just trying to sell a quality game without microtransactions?

 

[proandrad]

I would gladly pay $100 per game if it meant we could get rid of all paid dlc and microtransactions.

 

[anothertech]

I feel like so many ppl get up in arms about this shit, himing and hawing about the money etc

Then Ragnarok comes out and they all pay the money anyways lol

 

[KungFucius]

My father told me he bought his first house for $17,000.

Old house prices are irrelevant. Mortgage rates used to be over 10% and peaked in the mid 80s. Once they dropped, the monthly cost to own was lower so the base price of the house rose much faster. Mortgage rates have been below 7% for nearly 20 years and below 5 for most of the last 10 years.

Games were relatively more expensive in the past because they originally required carts with expensive chips. They also were 100% sold at retail. Now they cost more to produce, but in most cases digital distribution from 1 or a small number of outlets lets them fix prices so they can make more over the life of the platform. If games were all physical the price would drop quickly like they use to. Now they have us by the balls basically. Next gen could have no physical media, and this would mean 70 dollar games forever outside of sale events.

 

[KungFucius]

I feel like so many ppl get up in arms about this shit, himing and hawing about the money etc

Then Ragnarok comes out and they all pay the money anyways lol

It is perfectly reasonable to complain about something you don't like but cannot change and still go along with it. We have no power and the companies that do are cunts with it because there isn't enough competition to provide alternatives. If Starfield, Zelda and other titles dropped at the same time, maybe more people would wait for a discount, but for those with PS5s there is nothing else in the same league available even if they have the other platforms.

 

[fran.fernandez]

I will pay 70 or more lol. Also I can wait for cheap version.


Development did get a ton more expensive. Is not common talk but salary did increase. There’s people working from home and crush time is way less.

Some companies still pay for empty office as mainly we work from home , is not easy to just rent a new place and move all tech and maintain security.
They send computer home, pay internet, camera, chair, add new system for security (this on my 2 last game companies). Still some times we need to go office for the dev kits and others.
Idk if 70 is right but definitely development cost is rising and management of 300 people working from home + third party assets must be super difficult.

 

[sainraja]

Sorry, but this logic doesn't work. If I understand you correctly, your argument somewhat boils down to:
Since games are selling more due to higher install base, prices should not be higher.
Now, I'm not gonna pretend that I know the balance sheets at any of these companies. but I'm sure it runs much deeper than that. I mean......with that logic I could say......
The install base for the United States(as an example) was 287.6 million people in 2002. It is now 332.4 million in 2022, yet EVERYTHING costs more and you get less for your money.
Tons of products have more people purchasing them now vs then. But guess what........Inflation does not care. And videogames don't escape this because we love them. Demand has always been the driver.

You have to take into account that not only have the scopes increased for many of the game we love, but also the salaries have increased for the people who create them(due to inflation). It's not just, "they sell more copies, so they should be good". Like I said, it's deeper than that. Man, I want cheap prices like everyone else but I also understand the reality of things. Best way to send a message is to not buy if you're not happy.

^^ 100%. They will still somehow think that you are for the high prices. But yes 100%. Many variables are in play. I wish we still paid $49.99 for games! But we don't and most of us eventually got used to paying $59.99. Things are a little more dynamic this time around because we also have subscription services as a way to access games.

 

[MarkMe2525]

To all the people thinking back on when they paid $90 for Mario and making the comparison to today's market, those cartridges were around $25 to even produce. You then have to add shipping and storage of a comparably bulky product. Not only are physical discs pennies to produce in today's market, but shipping and storage are considerably less just due to the dimensions and weight of today's physical media.

Add the fact that half of today's (most cases considerably more) software sales are digital, and publishers are selling considerably more units than ever, the validity of the comparison really falls apart. These publishers are making more money today at $60 then they ever were in the past.

 

[jshackles]

I used to buy a 3-4 games a month at $59.99. I've only ever bought three games for $69.99 - ever.

I just can't bring myself to spend that much on a single game.

 

[angrod14]

There are very few things in life worth paying the full price. I purchase most of my games later down the road, not only because I want the discount but because I want the complete package (with all the DLC, etc.).

But every now and then there's a release that I care about A LOT, and really want to play day one, and I don't give an F about a 10 dollar increase from what I was already paying last gen.

For example, I'm buying Part I DAY ONE, and to me it's worth every single penny. Hell, it's the game that's making me buy a PS5 at last.

 

[It's all in the wrist]

Games are worth whatever people pay for them.

 

[anothertech]

It is perfectly reasonable to complain about something you don't like but cannot change and still go along with it. We have no power and the companies that do are cunts with it because there isn't enough competition to provide alternatives. If Starfield, Zelda and other titles dropped at the same time, maybe more people would wait for a discount, but for those with PS5s there is nothing else in the same league available even if they have the other platforms.

We'll, they can do something about it. They can wait for a discount. But no. They won't lol.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Yep, that's why it's so hard to exploit. Wait a sec...

Unlike a planned economy where the resources are allocated along party loyalty

Why don't you socialist losers just move to some shithole socialist country (which is all of them in presence and history) if you dislike free market economies that much? Too scared of starving or getting imprisoned for the wrong political opinion?

 

[cartman414]

Unlike a planned economy where the resources are allocated along party loyalty

Why don't you socialist losers just move to some shithole socialist country (which is all of them in presence and history) if you dislike free market economies that much? Too scared of starving or getting imprisoned for the wrong political opinion?

Those countries have been dictatorships/tyrannies, not examples of socialism. And even then I'm more for the "social democracy" model.

Free markets are all fun and games until the 1% are allowed to do whatever without consequence to themselves (and themselves only).

 

[Skifi28]

"I want to play game X right now and I can't wait" is a pretty good argument in my book. All games (minus Nintendo) will eventually be in the bargain bin so you can say the same about paying 60 or 50 or 40.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Those countries have been dictatorships/tyrannies, not examples of socialism. And even then I'm more for the "social democracy" model.

Funny how free market economies tend to result in pretty stable democracies more often than not, huh? Also, social democratic countries don't regulate gaming prices lmao. It actually blows my mind how garbage like socialism has been sanitized in recent years.

Free markets are all fun and games until the 1% are allowed to do whatever without consequence to themselves (and themselves only).

I don't give a fuck about boogiemen like billionaires, landlords, jews and whatever else you socialist crackpots hate. I care about what's best for a society and it sure as fuck doesn't involve price fixing luxury products that drop in price eventually. If you're that much of a consumerist baby that you feel entitled to playing a Sony exclusive on day 1, maybe it's time to look inwards. Prices are determined by what people are willing to pay. There are (non-elastic) products that we don't necessarily want to allocate according to market forces like insulin where government intervention is desirable. But video games? You want the state to regulate the prices of Rolex watches and Ferraris too? Just buy some cheaper alternatives.

 

[BlackTron]

Movies have become as, if not more, expensive to create than games. I don't remember ever paying more than $15 for a ticket, be it 20 years ago or today.
And movies still make millions (or billions). And even if you use physical media, those haven't gotten any more expensive.
And this is becoming even more true with the rise of streaming services.

The inflation argument, as the others, is horsesh*t.
It's also addressed in the video I posted.

Movie ticket prices HAVE gone up, but the guy in your own video thinks it's dumb to bother comparing movies tickets to game prices. No seriously, "is dumb" are his exact words.

His method for collecting physical movie price samples was pretty bad, using only Wal-Mart and titles like Mr. & Mrs. Smith. We're taking a movie like that at $15 and comparing it against new movies? In my opinion, his method doesn't even begin to make sense and I think he agrees, in the video even conceded he was comparing apples to oranges. In fact, here's another screencap. NOTE: if you have not watched the video, this is not a joke. It's a real screenshot.

There's a lot of subjectivity going on in this whole debate. I mean we could go on forever speculating about behind the scenes dynamics, and market changes that may have occurred with or without inflation. Want to know something that isn't subjective, and leaves no room for opinion and speculation? The inflation rate.

 

[brian0057]

Movie ticket prices HAVE gone up, but the guy in your own video thinks it's dumb to bother comparing movies tickets to game prices. No seriously, "is dumb" are his exact words.

His method for collecting physical movie price samples was pretty bad, using only Wal-Mart and titles like Mr. & Mrs. Smith. We're taking a movie like that at $15 and comparing it against new movies? In my opinion, his method doesn't even begin to make sense and I think he agrees, in the video even conceded he was comparing apples to oranges. In fact, here's another screencap. NOTE: if you have not watched the video, this is not a joke. It's a real screenshot.

There's a lot of subjectivity going on in this whole debate. I mean we could go on forever speculating about behind the scenes dynamics, and market changes that may have occurred with or without inflation. Want to know something that isn't subjective, and leaves no room for opinion and speculation? The inflation rate.

The inflation rate as an argument for the price increase is horsesh*t because there's another entertainment industry (in this case, movies and home video) that isn't taking inflation into consideration despite making more money than ever and films being even more expensive to produce than before.
Why should it be any different for videogames?

 

[The_Mike]

Thread could just be renamed to OP doesn’t understand basic economics.

While you are technically correct, it's pretty near impossible to compare it to previous generations.

At the snes era, you paid 90 bucks for a game.
That's it. You got the game and could play it til you grew tired of it.

Fifa cost 50 euro back then, at least in my country. Now they cost 70.

Now, while we can blame inflation, moneys worth throughout the decades, keep in mind that if you often want the complete experience, at least at previous gen, you didn't get it for your 60 euros.

Some games had dlcs that brought additional story and new things to unlocks, that is on top of the 60 euros.

You no longer get the full game.

I knew a retard who spend 100 of dollars on fifa mtx and even nfs heat for getting good car cards or something. He paid well over 90 euro for these fucked up mtx.

Diablo immortal are shoveling hundreds of millions of dollars into the vault with poor effort.

People like you and me buy the games and enjoy it, but don't underrated how many casual fuck yards who pays so much for mtx that they could have bought the games ten or times for each of us in here.

There was a moron paying 100k for Diablo immortal, which shows that the devs crying are not always validated.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...-character-now-too-powerful-to-matchmake/amp/

 

[BlackTron]

The inflation rate as an argument for the price increase is horsesh*t because there's another entertainment industry (in this case, movies and home video) that isn't taking inflation into consideration despite making more money than ever and films being even more expensive to produce than before.
Why should it be any different for videogames?

This is exactly my point. Answering this question introduces all kinds of unknowns, speculation and opinion. The very video you reference acknowledges movies went up with inflation, but in his opinion, it's dumb to compare it anyway. Why? I don't know, ask him. Everyone is going to have their own take on this.

I could go on for thousands of words about the multitude of potential differences between games and movies. But I don't want to because it's a frivolous exercise. It's like saying "the price of an apple hasn't changed, why should the price of an orange be any different? After all, they're both fruit." Well, there are a million possible reasons. What we do know for sure is that they ARE different and there are infinite variables at play. So trying to compare movies and games directly is a crappy way of trying to prove anything, it's all just conjecture and talking points.

If you want my opinion, and that's all it is because none of us know for sure, the reason movies and tickets haven't gone up as much (even though tickets DID go up, they just hit a wall eventually) is because home theater is really good and cheap, streaming services make it easy, and COVID disarmed movie theaters. People just got used to staying home and watching movies, and though theater isn't dead, it was a catalyst that took a lot away from it. That's why you have so many direct to Disney+ movies now, many of them don't even come out at the theater at all. The market shifted.

Now you could say "the gaming market shifted too" but expecting these two massively different markets to shift in a 1:1 fashion is insane. The number of variables at play it stratospheric, to the extent it just comes off as silly. Even your man in the video think they don't have enough to do with each other. So I'm not sure how you're using that video to support one idea, while parading another idea that he doesn't even think is valid.

What this guy did was take a bunch of points from real gaming websites, which are generally nonsense anyway, and try to dispel it with even more nonsense, while admitting it's all apples and oranges anyway. So the "gaming media" is spewing a bunch of bullshit, what else is new. They could have tried using real data instead of dumb ass comparisons to make their points (like the inflation rate) but maybe that will happen the day that their reviews make sense.

TLDR: Gaming journalists use garbage ideas to make their points that are easy to dispel, even by a Youtube personality who admits his own methods are shitty.

 

[SegaShack]

I have so much going on that once I was in my 20s I stopped caring about getting games on release at all. I can wait 6 months to a year without any issue and pay 10-20 bucks for these games.

No one has to pay 70 for a game unless they choose to buy it on release day.

 

[Dorago]

If a game is good people will pay full price for it. Most games aren't even worth pirating. There hasn't been a game in a while that people will buy a system for either.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Cant compare prices of different entertainment because they have set their own little islands of prices. All you an really do is compare against their own.

It's like why you cant compare the price of apples, oranges and bananas. Apples and oranges are roughly the same price but bananas are half the cost. And a good watermelon costs as much as all of them combined.

 

[Akuji]

Your opinion does not matter. When do people realise that they have ZERO input on that topic.
They create the game, they choose the price they want to sell it. If its 1 million per copy then thats it.
Its YOUR right to choose if you want to buy it at any given price.

Dont buy it, but telling people they should lower their price is beyond entitlement.
Do you ask your plumber what the job does and then say he should lower the price?
The goods in the supermarket? You can surely say well if it would cost xx €/$ instead i would buy it.
That gives the people that sell their work/products informationen how much sales they lose by not selling it at a lower price.
But the price they set is not your buisness, at all.

Go to bed at 8 o'clock in the future buddy! Your going to bed to late.
I have the same right to tell you when u should go to bed compared to you telling them what price they sell products.

 

[Platinumstorm]

I am supportive of people not paying $70.

However, we have historical precedent of games costing even more than that. Back in the 90s, snes games were pushing $80 in 90s money.

We buy drinks that we can slam in a few minutes for $6, but we have people who are vehemently opposed to paying $6/hr of enjoyment.

Even at $70. Games are one of the cheapest forms of entertainment that exists.

I personally do not buy remakes at high price tags regardless if they're my favorite.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I used to buy a 3-4 games a month at $59.99. I've only ever bought three games for $69.99 - ever.

I just can't bring myself to spend that much on a single game.

Game has to be an “omg must have day 1” for me to do so, but then even now, with so many rewards points across various avenues, I haven’t paid full price in a long time.

Games I can wait, I just get when I’m ready to play them, and by then they’re on sale. I too used to buy multiple a month, only to kick myself when the game was $10-$20 by the time I got to it in the backlog, lol.

 

[cartman414]

Funny how free market economies tend to result in pretty stable democracies more often than not, huh? Also, social democratic countries don't regulate gaming prices lmao. It actually blows my mind how garbage like socialism has been sanitized in recent years.


I don't give a fuck about boogiemen like billionaires, landlords, jews and whatever else you socialist crackpots hate. I care about what's best for a society and it sure as fuck doesn't involve price fixing luxury products that drop in price eventually. If you're that much of a consumerist baby that you feel entitled to playing a Sony exclusive on day 1, maybe it's time to look inwards. Prices are determined by what people are willing to pay. There are (non-elastic) products that we don't necessarily want to allocate according to market forces like insulin where government intervention is desirable. But video games? You want the state to regulate the prices of Rolex watches and Ferraris too? Just buy some cheaper alternatives.

Funny how the middle class has been shrinking these past few decades. Capitalism works mostly for the upper class. You're mistaking my criticisms of capitalism for lack of acceptance of market forces. Of course games are going to cost more due to development prices.

I'm not against the laws of supply and demand. Heck, if you bothered to look at my first post in this thread I explained why games cost more in the 90s.

I'm only against, as you say, for instance, a 30x markup on insulin.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

This is such a bad take, and it's super easy to disprove because fortunately this is a forum and threads stick around.

http://[URL]https://www.neogaf.com/...en-title-price-increase-is-horsesh-t.1575957/

[/URL]

http://[URL]https://www.neogaf.com/...9-99-price-for-first-party-ps5-games.1566419/

[/URL]

http://[URL]https://www.neogaf.com/...hat-costs-70-on-current-gen-consoles.1632938/

[/URL]

No, no one has ever complained about the 70 dollar price point before, its all just TLOU haters.

*rolls eyes*

No one has review bombed and attacked anything like Naughty Dog and TLOU IMO…its amplified…as soon as the price was announced suddenly it was the most expensive thing ever made…it started trending Twitter…and devs had to come out and defend it…normal? Be real…is Naughty Dog getting normal hate or exaggerated hate…I know which one is true…how can a game like TLOU II get user reviews of 1/10? Seriously a AAAA quality game…maybe the story wasn’t what you wanted but…cmon, TLOU II has the MOST awards in gaming HISTORY period…Microsoft said there isn’t anything like it from other devs on PC or Console…

 

[ArtHands]

Would pay $/€70 for a game if I got it forever on all platforms past, present and future.
I buy Halo 6 on Xbox Series X2, I get it and any future version of Halo 6 when I pay $/€70.

Might as well jump to PC at this point.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Why would I need an excuse?

My point exactly.

 

[Matsuchezz]

Sony needs to release the game ASAP, so these shitty threads go away. And those of us who are going to buy it day one can enjoy it for years on end. And enjoy the definitive version of this Master Piece. I would think about it if the price was 90 dollars. That is a steep price. 70 dollars is not.

 

[Matsuchezz]

I am supportive of people not paying $70.

However, we have historical precedent of games costing even more than that. Back in the 90s, snes games were pushing $80 in 90s money.

We buy drinks that we can slam in a few minutes for $6, but we have people who are vehemently opposed to paying $6/hr of enjoyment.

Even at $70. Games are one of the cheapest forms of entertainment that exists.

I personally do not buy remakes at high price tags regardless if they're my favorite.

Why buy another drink when you can regurgitate the one you already had and its way cheaper this way. Even so why drink again if you have already had shots the week before. Or even smoking, that is pretty stupid buying and consuming stuff that will cause a great harm to your body and you pay money on a regular basis to fuck you up.

I personally buy remakes that are based on fucking AWESOME GAMES, fucking Shadow of the Colossus is the greatest remake of all time bar none. That one was worth it, and this one will be worth it.

 

[Trunx81]

When Super Street Fighter 2 launched on SNES back in Germany, it was 154 Deutsche Mark. Euro nearly cut this in half, so we already were used to pay over 70 dollars a game. And this was just a few more fighters for some.

What I want to say is that this concept isn’t new. But we’ve also never had this amount of discounts for games like we do nowadays. Youtube is full of “sales” videos. If you want to have the game on launch day - ok. But if you can wait a bit, expect a discount up to 80% in the near future. Or the game on Gold / Plus.

The industry has changed, yes. But your 70 bucks purchase supports us cheap asses who can just wait. Thank you!