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[Ac30]

That would be true if they didn't have their own electorate to question to.

If France leaves we'll see a massive financial crisis and a massive build up of arms all over europe. Basically go back to 1925.

The give me something or i'll leave approach will backfire just as it did for the UK. Only that it's not gonna be one country fucked but all of europe(and probably the world).

I agree that the EU needs to be reformed however threatening to kill yourself if it doesn't happen is just childish.
We should rather try and get countries on board for reforms (if necessary go a multiple speed europe like proposed) and leave the unwilling obstructionists behind.

France vs. the EU, and we just escaped the depths of the crisis. Fun. It's not really a "democratic refounding" if France takes its ball and goes home.

I think multi-speed Europe is a decent idea, but will not get much support in home countries. It's easy to just blame the EU for the failings of national governments.

 

[Xando]

I think multi-speed Europe is a decent idea, but will not get much support in home countries. It's easy to just blame the EU for the failings of national governments.

France, germany, spain, italy and a lot of other countries already signaled their interest. EU popularity is at an all time high at the moment in most countries. Imo all we need is someone to push it. I know Merkel won't because... well she's Merkel(Kinda hoping for Schulz to win here in germany) and i'm secretly hoping Macron would be the person to push for further integration.

 

[Ac30]

France, germany, spain, italy and a lot of other countries already signaled their interest. EU popularity is at an all time high at the moment in most countries. Imo all we need is someone to push it. I know Merkel won't because... well she's Merkel(Kinda hoping for Schulz to win here in germany) and i'm secretly hoping Macron would be the person to push for further integration.

As a Belgian I'd be all for it too! But Macron needs to win for that to happen - and sadly plenty of people like the status quo too, they don't want to lose more sovereignty.

I'm kinda mixed on Schulz winning not because he's unqualified in the slightest but just because it's going to be weird not having Merkel around, she was chancellor for most of my adult life. But, at least in Germany, you get to pick between 2 good candidates

 

[G.O.O.]

France is the second most important country of the EU.

They leave it's game over. So the other countries will have to throw a bone or doom the entire EU.

If we come to that, no one will want to keep the EU alive anyway.

 

[chromatic9]

Is there a list or summary of what Mélenchon wants to change about the EU?

 

[Ac30]

If we come to that, no one will want to keep the EU alive anyway.

Really though, is it possible to leave the EU? I read somewhere that it's ingrained in your constitution to be a part of it and would require an amendment to leave - and since neither the FN or FI is likely to win a majority in your assemblies, can they even leave? I doubt LR or PS are interested in leaving.

^He's also for quitting NATO, so lol. He wants France to be a proponent for peace, but wants to leave the military alliance and quit the EU, great ways to achieve that. Hell, look at this:

The Europe of our dreams is dead. It is only a single market and peoples are subject to the dictatorship of banks and finance. How to stop this nightmare?.

So yes, he's set on leaving; he wants to quit the single market, which is a stupid idea in itself, and is integral to the entire European project (not just the EU, but the EEA too). Guess he wants to bring border checkpoints back, as well as differing standards for goods and services. He wants to quit the Euro as well.
http://f-i.jlm2017.fr/sortir_des_traites_europeens

His EU policy is similar to LePen without the racism and the climate change denial.

 

[G.O.O.]

Really though, is it possible to leave the EU? I read somewhere that it's ingrained in your constitution to be a part of it and would require an amendment to leave - and since neither the FN or FI is likely to win a majority in your assemblies, can they even leave? I doubt LR or PS are interested in leaving.

^He's also for quitting NATO, so lol. He wants France to be a proponent for peace, but wants to leave the military alliance and quit the EU, great ways to achieve that. Hell, look at this:



So yes, he's set on leaving; he wants to quit the single market, which is a stupid idea in itself, and is integral to the entire European project (not just the EU, but the EEA too). Guess he wants to bring border checkpoints back, as well as differing standards for goods and services. He wants to quit the Euro as well.
http://f-i.jlm2017.fr/sortir_des_traites_europeens

His EU policy is similar to LePen without the racism and the climate change denial.

It is indeed in our constitution, so I'm not sure how that's supposed to happen. I guess there would be a referendum, but I don't know if it would be legally binding or if a vote by the assemblies would be needed after that.

He also said in his book he wanted to leave the WTO and get closer to the Bolivarian Alliance, but... well, I guess that's the sort of thing one would say we shouldn't take too literally

 

[Ac30]

It is indeed in our constitution, so I'm not sure how that's supposed to happen. I guess there would be a referendum, but I don't know if it would be legally binding or if a vote by the assemblies would be needed after that.

He also said in his book he wanted to leave the WTO and get closer to the Bolivarian Alliance, but... well, I guess that's the sort of thing one would say we shouldn't take too literally

I'm assuming the vote would be non-binding, and since the French are actually on the European mainland and understand the consequences of leaving the EU I doubt the public, much less the national assembly, would vote leave.

Please don't let me down France ;-;

The Bolivarian alliance? Please don't tell me this guy admires Chavez, because if he does, wow.

 

[harriet the spy]

I'm assuming the vote would be non-binding, and since the French are actually on the European mainland and understand the consequences of leaving the EU I doubt the public, much less the national assembly, would vote leave.

Please don't let me down France ;-;

The Bolivarian alliance? Please don't tell me this guy admires Chavez, because if he does, wow.

He used to but of course now that it's a failed state he is swiping that under the rug

 

[G.O.O.]

Chavez and Castro.

https://www.franceculture.fr/politique/les-influences-derriere-le-discours-de-jean-luc-melenchon

 

[Ac30]

Chavez and Castro.

https://www.franceculture.fr/politique/les-influences-derriere-le-discours-de-jean-luc-melenchon

He used to but of course now that it's a failed state he is swiping that under the rug

Holy shit

I'm assuming he also admires their incredible political savvy and love for open and free elections. So much for democratic rebirth.

 

[Coffinhal]

I'm glad to see people throwing dirt* now that Mélenchon is a threat.

*come on, these caricatures are now 5 years old, have been debunked

Probably not. His numbers have been literally flat for a while now, while everyone else besides MLP has seen some movement. It's shockingly consistent.

Digging up this post from 3 weeks back. I advised you not to say "probably not" because this campaign is full of surprises. Now Mélenchon could be 3rd or even close to 2nd.

No matter what happens, he's doing the best campaign of all the candidates in the general race and is shaking up public relations in a campaign in a way that will leave a big mark. (and of course it will change the left/progressist wing in a good way ideologically, even if he loses)

 

[whyamihere]

I'm glad to see people throwing dirt* now that Mélenchon is a threat.

*come on, these caricatures are now 5 years old, have been debunked



Digging up this post from 3 weeks back. I advised you not to say "probably not" because this campaign is full of surprises. Now Mélenchon could be 3rd or even close to 2nd.

No matter what happens, he's doing the best campaign of all the candidates in the general race and is shaking up public relations in a campaign in a way that will leave a big mark. (and of course it will change the left/progressist wing in a good way ideologically, even if he loses)

Cool. Good thing probably is a word and I consistently qualified everything I said with that I wasn't a psychic. Based on the data we had, he wasn't moving. Now he is.

 

[Ac30]

I'm glad to see people throwing dirt* now that Mélenchon is a threat.

*come on, these caricatures are now 5 years old, have been debunked



Digging up this post from 3 weeks back. I advised you not to say "probably not" because this campaign is full of surprises. Now Mélenchon could be 3rd or even close to 2nd.

No matter what happens, he's doing the best campaign of all the candidates in the general race and is shaking up public relations in a campaign in a way that will leave a big mark. (and of course it will change the left/progressist wing in a good way ideologically, even if he loses)

How is this debunked?

Chavez has been the forefront of a broad process in Latin America that has opened a new cycle for our century, that of the victory of citizen revolutions. (...) What Chavez never dies. It is the inexhaustible ideal of humanist hope, of revolution. It has not only promoted the human condition of Venezuelans, it has made progress in democracy considerably.

It's in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRMAYwhrJJ0

I would like to hope that he's changed his stance and/or I'm wrong because Christ.

 

[mo60]

I'm glad to see people throwing dirt* now that Mélenchon is a threat.

*come on, these caricatures are now 5 years old, have been debunked



Digging up this post from 3 weeks back. I advised you not to say "probably not" because this campaign is full of surprises. Now Mélenchon could be 3rd or even close to 2nd.

No matter what happens, he's doing the best campaign of all the candidates in the general race and is shaking up public relations in a campaign in a way that will leave a big mark. (and of course it will change the left/progressist wing in a good way ideologically, even if he loses)

I think melenchon has a limit to how high he can reach in polls. Literally all of the candidates do. I do think Melenchon can get around 20% of the vote in the end but I don't think he will end up in 2nd place.

 

[Ac30]

I think melenchon has a limit to how high he can reach in polls. Literally all of the candidates do. I do think Melenchon can get around 20% of the vote in the end but I don't think he will end up in 2nd place.

‘This Will Be The End Of Melenchon's Campaign,’ Says Increasingly Nervous Man For Seventh Time This Year



Let's hope.

 

[harriet the spy]

I'm glad to see people throwing dirt* now that Mélenchon is a threat.

*come on, these caricatures are now 5 years old, have been

I don't really care if Mélenchon gets elected (I don't really dislike him - or rather, I don't dislike him more than the other candidates - Fillon and le pen excluded). But there is nothing debunked about these, or about his unecessary defense of the Iranian statements about Israel. I'll take these for what they are - targeted statements towards his former niche and enemy-of-my-enemy type of reasoning that he will give up now that he is more successful and trying to 'ratisser un peu plus large'. See also his attitude on immigration.

I think melenchon has a limit to how high he can reach in polls. Literally all of the candidates do. I do think Melenchon can get around 20% of the vote in the end but I don't think he will end up in 2nd place.

With clever manœuvering (which he is completely capable of) and a bit of luck he could totally make it.
The worse Hamon does, the worse he will look, and the more Mélenchon will actually be the vote utile for the left. Macron is losing momentum brvause he has been favorite for a bit too long now, and the 'he is the bankers candidate' attack is working well.
(Anecdotally - I know a bunch of French bankers and they all hate macron's guts and prefer Fillon to him).
Also with some help of Russia on Macron (though I don't really understand why Russia is so anti Macron given he doesn't have a particularly anti Russian stance), that further improves his chances.

 

[mo60]

‘This Will Be The End Of Melenchon's Campaign,' Says Increasingly Nervous Man For Seventh Time This Year



Let's hope.

If it looks likely he will end up in second and possibly kick macron out of the second round I can see centrist voters rallying around macron to block Melenchon,

With clever manœuvering (which he is completely capable of) and a bit of luck he could totally make it.
The worse Hamon does, the worse he will look, and the more Mélenchon will actually be the vote utile for the left. Macron is losing momentum brvause he has been favorite for a bit too long now, and the 'he is the bankers candidate' attack is working well.
(Anecdotally - I know a bunch of French bankers and they all hate macron's guts and prefer Fillon to him).
Also with some help of Russia on Macron (though I don't really understand why Russia is so anti Macron given he doesn't have a particularly anti Russian stance), that further improves his chances.

If it looks likely that a le pen-melenchon matchup will happen I can see centrist voters rallying around macron and maybe fillon to block melenchon.

 

[harriet the spy]

If it looks likely he will end up in second and possibly kick macron out of the second round I can see centrist voters rallying around macron to block him.

I'm exaggerating a bit, but which centrist voters? People are hungry for change and France has never had a particularly strong center.

I still think he ll probably be second - since I suspect Fillon voters will defect if it looks like Mélenchon might take the second spot.

 

[Ac30]

Also with some help of Russia on Macron (though I don't really understand why Russia is so anti Macron given he doesn't have a particularly anti Russian stance), that further improves his chances.

Putin wants the EU to fail, so it makes sense.

 

[mo60]

I'm exaggerating a bit, but which centrist voters? People are hungry for change and France has never had a particularly strong center.

I still think he ll probably be second - since I suspect Fillon voters will defect if it looks like Mélenchon might take the second spot.

Whatever centrist voters are still supporting hamon, fillon or one of the irrelevant candidates.If Macron is still safe but le pen may not end up in second I don't know what will happen in that case. Will people block Melenchon from reaching the second round in this case I don't know at this point.

 

[Ac30]

Whatever centrist voters are still supporting hamon, fillon or one of the irrelevant candidates.If Macron is still safe but le pen may not end up in second I don't know what will happen in that case. Will people block Melenchon from reaching the second round in this case I don't know at this point.

Wouldn't it be funny if the dust settles and Melenchon and Fillon enter the second round, lol.

 

[Magni]

Wouldn't it be funny if the dust settles and Melenchon and Fillon enter the second round, lol.

On the one hand I'd be happy MLP didn't make it. On the other hand I'd cry. I don't want to vote Fillon, but if it's him vs either Mélenchon or MLP, the EU is more important than my pride.

 

[mo60]

Wouldn't it be funny if the dust settles and Melenchon and Fillon enter the second round, lol.

That would be a nightmare second round scenario for centrist voters.

Also I was looking at the regional polls for the le pen-macron matchup and it looks like macron may be able to win a region that Sarkozy crushed Hollande in 2012 by like 15. He would win it by 2 points according to a poll if he faced le pen.

 

[Ac30]

That would be a nightmare second round scenario for centrist voters.

Also I was looking at the regional polls for the le pen-macron matchup and it looks like macron may be able to win a region that Sarkozy crushed Hollande in 2012 by like 15. He would win it by 2 points according to a poll if he faced le pen.

I think the nightmare round for moderates/centrists would be Melenchon vs. LePen because no matter who you pick you lose the EU and get protectionist policies.

 

[Alx]

I'm glad to see people throwing dirt* now that Mélenchon is a threat.

Criticism isn't "throwing dirt", and it's only natural that candidates that are (or become) more relevant get more criticism than others. Nobody bothers commenting on Dupont-Aignan, but it would happen much more if he polled at 15+%.

 

[Ac30]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...denies-french-role-wartime-roundup-paris-jews

LePen's off to a good start this week - what is the point of this saying shit like this.

Headline is pretty clickbait tho

 

[BlackRainbowFT]

I think I watched 3/4 of the "debate". I'm not French and my GF isn't going to vote for him, but why are people always making fun of Cheminade? I get that he's goofy and says some backwards things... but I'm specifically referring to the Mars stuff as he's always being teased for it.

why do people see this as contributing to his loony persona? is having a space program a bad thing?

Anyway, last time I disliked Melenchon as I'd always seen him as irascible and too heavy on the Marxist rhetoric (just like I can't stand Artaud). This time around I like his attitude. And it says a lot when somebody feels confident enough to genuinely be amused by his opponents' jokes. Others have a tendency to dismiss their adversaries as a whole.

I think Poutou could learn a few things from him. He's right on a lot of stuff, but some of is positions are way too extreme... employers should be unable to fire their employees? yes if their financial loss is due to a recent acquisition or investment (tough titty), no if it's due to sheer incompetence. And pushing for employment at all costs isn't the solution, mainly because of automation.

Also, if anybody watched France 5's political show yesterday... I'm appalled at the right-wing's dishonesty. I find it particularly unbearable to watch them spewing nonsense about civil servants. How can they think it's acceptable that a nurse has 8 minutes to take care of their patients? it's not a factory, it's goddamn human beings we're talking about.
holy shit that made my blood boil.

I mean, I come from a rather wealthy family and I can see through their bullshit... But then I've always held mostly heavily-socialist views all my life (although sometimes I disagree vehemently about some issues).

 

[Alx]

but I'm specifically referring to the Mars stuff as he's always being teased for it.

why do people see this as contributing to his loony persona? is having a space program a bad thing?

Not necessarily a bad thing, but I guess it's so out of tune with the common campaign topics that it makes it sound more ridiculous than it should be. I'd like to see more (international) efforts to colonize Mars too (although it's more for coolness than real necessity), but I don't think it's worth being a bullet point on a presidential program.
Also most people would rather adress issues on our own planet first before bothering with others.

 

[G.O.O.]

Plus Cheminade was mostly unknown to young voters when he ran in 2012, so the Mars stuff stuck with him.

I'm glad to see people throwing dirt* now that Mélenchon is a threat.

*come on, these caricatures are now 5 years old, have been debunked

Hey, I've been shitting on him before he surged in polls. And it's not even scratching the surface.

EDIT : about that

"whoever did it"

 

[DiipuSurotu]

This Saturday Le Pen got booed at by Corsican independentists during a meeting in Ajaccio. They said her "sickening ideology" has no place in Corsica and shouted "France go away".

Must be strange for her to get her xenophobic ideas thrown back at herself.

 

[G.O.O.]

would you look at that, I might have been wrong about a JLM/MLP second round aswell

https://twitter.com/Kantar_FR/status/851105323192635392

glad I was, but I still hope for another scenario

 

[Sinsem]

"whoever did it"

Did we get the result of the UN investigation yet? (They certainly were not available at the time)
Because, I do agree that Assad is likely to be the one that attack his own citizens, he already did it before. But there are so many factions fighting right now that yes, it could be everybody.
Doesn't make the guy less a dictator and monster though, but I haven't seen anyone implying that.

 

[Alx]

would you look at that, I might have been wrong about a JLM/MLP second round aswell

https://twitter.com/Kantar_FR/status/851105323192635392

glad I was, but I still hope for another scenario

As much as I don't want it to happen, a second round debate JLM/MLP would be something to behold...

 

[DiipuSurotu]

As much as I don't want it to happen, a second round debate JLM/MLP would be something to behold...

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Melenchon vs Macron in the 2nd round being so tight (47-53) is definitely interesting. That would be a debate I would absolutely love to see; firstly because of the rejection of the right it would imply, and secondly because it would be a real showdown between the divergent intellectual strains on the liberal-left - the liberals, and the left! Both former PS members who split in different directions.

 

[Hypron]

As much as I don't want it to happen, a second round debate JLM/MLP would be something to behold...

Wouldn't Mélenchon completely clown her? Regardless of one's opinions on his politics, he's good with words.

 

[Alx]

Wouldn't Mélenchon completely clown her? Regardless of one's opinions on his politics, he's good with words.

She isn't half bad either. Most people agree that they both are the only "tribuns" among the candidates.
Also a direct confrontation may raise a few questions on some similarities in their programs...

 

[oti]

As much as I don't want it to happen, a second round debate JLM/MLP would be something to behold...

What a twist that would be.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

What a twist that would be.

I imagine it would go something like this.

 

[Alx]

Watching the official campaign videos from the candidates... Seriously, it's time Lutte Ouvrière updates its vocabulary. "Le grand capital", "la bourgeoisie", "travailleurs, travailleuses",... they would have much more credibility if they had a more realistic approach, you can still defend worker's rights without sounding like it's still 1917.

 

[harriet the spy]

Watching the official campaign videos from the candidates... Seriously, it's time Lutte Ouvrière updates its vocabulary. "Le grand capital", "la bourgeoisie", "travailleurs, travailleuses",... they would have much more credibility if they had a more realistic approach, you can still defend worker's rights without sounding like it's still 1917.

At this point I gotta believe they are paid by the right wing to suck increasingly vanishing votes from the left.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Watching the official campaign videos from the candidates... Seriously, it's time Lutte Ouvrière updates its vocabulary. "Le grand capital", "la bourgeoisie", "travailleurs, travailleuses",... they would have much more credibility if they had a more realistic approach, you can still defend worker's rights without sounding like it's still 1917.

That's pretty much what Mélenchon is doing, what with his YouTube videos, Jeuxvideo .com callouts, memes, tie-in video game, hologram, etc.

 

[gutter_trash]

IMO, Mélanchon is just as aweful as Le Pen

France, make Macron pass 1st Round plz

 

[DiipuSurotu]

IMO, Mélanchon is just as aweful as Le Pen

You must be white

 

[Ac30]

That's pretty much what Mélenchon is doing, what with his YouTube videos, Jeuxvideo .com callouts, memes, tie-in video game, hologram, etc.

Macron should release a game where you play as a Rothschild banker doing his best to rob the working poor of everything they hold dear while funnelling all that cash as quietly as possible to the fascist EU run by German overlords who hold France's balls in a vice with the Euro and the treaties.

A game as suggested by reading Reddit posts, lol.


Since there doesn't seem to be many vocal far right wing nutters on r/France or r/Europe I'm unsure what the right thinks but probably something involving him inviting brown people in to rape their women.

I mean shit, at least a Melenchon is not europhobic and doesn't hate brown people, gutter. They ain't the same.

 

[Condom]

IMO, Mélanchon is just as aweful as Le Pen

France, make Macron pass 1st Round plz

Translation: They're both my political opponents so I have to paint them as just as bad just to get people supporting me. Theoretical integrity be damned.

 

[gutter_trash]

Translation: They're both my political opponents so I have to paint them as just as bad just to get people supporting me. Theoretical integrity be damned.

2 anti-EU politicians taking Russia money are all equally bad, yes

 

[avaya]

Melenchon sounds like a prize cretin.

Le Pen is a fascist.

Fillion is a crook.

The others are all meh.

Macron all the way.

 

[thespot84]

anyone know of a good place to catch up on the election for someone who's hasn't been following?