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|OT| French Presidential Elect 2017 - La France est toujours insoumise; Le Pen loses
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I kinda feel sorry for Hamon. Him and Macron seem to be the best candidates out of the 5.The other candidates are either two extreme or corrupt.
gutter is right. Melenchon is just as bad as Le Pen.
The absolute skullfucking stupidity on the left is astounding to me. They have lost their goddamn minds. It's full on accelerationism championed by arm chair marxists.
The EU as an institution only exists after the greatest conflict in human history and 100 million dead. You will not get BETTER than the EU without further horrific loss of life. You will only get incremental change. This fantasy that you can burn it all down and start again like it's a fucking videogame still astounds me to this day.
Also pro-tip the biggest "neoliberal" block in the EU is fatally weakened by the UK leaving, it's France's opportunity to re-forge the original path.
Melenchon is a fucking moron.
The absolute skullfucking stupidity on the left is astounding to me. They have lost their goddamn minds. It's full on accelerationism championed by arm chair marxists.
The EU as an institution only exists after the greatest conflict in human history and 100 million dead. You will not get BETTER than the EU without further horrific loss of life. You will only get incremental change. This fantasy that you can burn it all down and start again like it's a fucking videogame still astounds me to this day.
Also pro-tip the biggest "neoliberal" block in the EU is fatally weakened by the UK leaving, it's France's opportunity to re-forge the original path.
Melenchon is a fucking moron.
I'm just sad that politics has become so polarized. These last few years have really soured me on having the position of president at all - elected assemblies allow expression of all views, presidents do not.
Also Avaya I hope you don't live in France because there's a chance you might need to pick between the Marxist and the Fascist.
I'm actually surprised there's so few people commenting in this thread, I'm sure there's more French gaffers
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I'm not sure if people starving under Maduro's regime are white to be honest.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Yeah no, Le Pen is not 2 politicians
Yep. The 'new' blocks are Franco-German, Mediteranean, Visegrad and Nordics. Poland and potentially Romania will have decise roles. This is also why a two-speed EU idea is a bit nonsense, there is not really a core of integrationist countries, there are several shifting allegiances on different topics (social, economic, fiscal, etc.).
To tell you the truth I can't imagine any countries beyond maybe Spain (where the EU is really popular for some reason) voting for increased integration. I mean heck I'd vote for it but I'm one person lol and I have no idea how the Belgians feel about it.
Depends what kind of integration. I'm pretty sure all the governing parties, including N-VA, would be happy with deeper cooperation in terms of security (e.g. sharing of info between police units) and military. N-VA is however fiercely opposed to closer cooperation on fiscal issues and that's for example why Van Overtveldt is taking Belgium out of the Financial Transaction Tax system (which is precisely an example of closer EU integration in a two-speed system).
As for the population, I'm going to be very blunt here and say that a lot of people are not really aware on which areas we are already cooperating and how intense that cooperation is. The majority of legislation is already based on EU Directives these days and it's working pretty damn well. I mean, it's pretty much a prerequisite to EU internal trade that you have to follow the same kind of rules on product liability, conformity, taxation, import duties, etc.
Putting it more generally, I think a lot of the discussions on 'more or less EU' never really get into the detail about what specific rules you would want to change. Citizens both underestimate and overestimate how much is done on the EU level, by your nationally elected European Parliamentarians and national governments in the Council.
Herb Alpert
Banned
I Was working tonight on TF1 for the Jacques cheminade interview. What a weird guy...
Let's hope in 2019 they'll be more eager but my parents seem to have decided Vlaams Belang is up their alley, ugh. Let's hope they're not representative of the rest.
The EU is a thing people never think much about but will sorely miss if it's gone.
We really need to do a better job of teaching political science and civics in our schools.
there's little doubt, really
http://www.leparisien.fr/internatio...quoi-tout-accuse-damas-05-04-2017-6826935.php
https://www.apnews.com/19772be1238e...uth_verifier=2IE0e2ryfK1Y94qGiMhiK5vM5VgCqroe
Let's not even start about his initial reaction, which was to blame Paris and Berlin => http://www.liberation.fr/france/201...voir-solitaire-de-frapper-la-syrie-tw_1561179
j'ai ri
This is really funny lol
Let's hope not too many people seriously believe this
please tell more !
Oh there are. I just don't go around here that much because it seems to mostly lean toward Macron, which makes me sad lol.
I think it's much better that you and others do otherwise this turns into an echo chamber. So, who and what do you like, if you want to share? There are quite a few gaffers who don't like him here too.
Oh we're here but Neogaf doesn't feel like the best place to talk about french politics. If I want to talk about my own country I usually visit french-speaking forums. Also I like to get technical when I talk french politics and it's a hassle for me to use english for the in-depth subjects that I like to talk about lol
" I work at TF1 and I've met Jacques Cheminade AMA "
Makes sense. This is the only place I can get good discussions in English though
at least I can practice my French elsewhere hahaWell that's his reaction to Trump launching 59 missile on Syria.
But that's not the first time the USA are bypassing the UN do to what the fuck they want.
avaya said:
Do you live in France? Because if it's the case, you should have all the information and I just don't understand how you can qualify them as equally bad.
Same. I do my best to keep arguments short and not waste time trying to convince people.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Mélenchon isn't anti-EU.
I personally support Mélenchon. The only other candidate that could have interested me is Hamon but his Parti Socialiste label is what breaks it for me. The (evil) genius of Macron is to offer everything that the people hated with Hollande while making them feel like it's new and fresh, and I'm not even talking about the other two candidates as - I think - it's obvious that I'm a left guy.
Even without having to resort to the "he's the lesser evil" that people often use when discussing elections, Mélenchon is also the first politician to make me interested in politics, and to actually make me believe in something (and not someone). He might just be very good at faking it, but he feels sincere about what he talks about. And it's not just that his heart is in the good place (that would be a stupid reason to vote for him), his program is also pretty solid IMO.
I'm glad he got you interested in politics. The more people vote, the more politicians are beholden to their people, and the more vibrant the democracy becomes. Thanks.
It's a pity Hamon seems to be going down with the ship.
What kind of comment would you expect, exactly?
From my point of view, most of what could be said at this point about this election has already been said.
Like many of my fellow citizens, I'm not even sure who I'm going to vote for in the first round.
Because I'm not going to vote for ideas I like in the first round, but against ideas I loathe.
Something that didn't happen to me since I started voting 20+ years ago.
Depending on who will be in the second round, I'm not even sure I'll bother voting.
I guess I wanted a general barometer on opinions, with the sheer amount of undecideds it's going to be close. I'm sorry that you're not getting the choices you'd like, sounds terrible
Hello bullshit
Same here. I was susprised to see that.
Well hopefully if Lepen makes it to the 2nd round I hope it will seriously motivate people.
If it's a Fillon/ Hamon I imagine we will beat records of non participation.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Unless Jesus Christ, Muhammad and L'Abbé Pierre literally come down from heaven to give their blessing to Hamon on tape, Hamon in the second round is definitely not happening anymore
I wouldn't expect moderate leftists/rightists to be greatly motivated by a Le Pen / Mélenchon second round, though.
Far right vs far left will be too extreme options for a whole lot of people to choose between.
Ahhhhhh. Wow. Haven't taken a peek into French politics for a while, hu?
The UMP is dead, they're now called the French Republicans, and they aren't doing so good.
EDIT: I misread and didn't see you meant assembly. But still, the Republicans aren't looking so good there either and the FN might make more inroads there, although I'm guessing the Socialiste and the Republicans will still get most of the seats.
The LR may win the assembly elections in June at this point, but since the LR seems to be running a really awful presidential campaign right now I'm not sure if they be in a good enough shape to do well in the assembly elections.
I wouldn't "just as bad", but bad, yes, for exactly the reasons you outlined in your post. You don't need to be a literal piece of shit to smell bad.
With the US having abdicated global leadership, the world needs Europe more than ever. Mélenchon is dangerous. I've seen many of his supporters say they don't agree with everything - and usually they cite his views on Europe. It makes total sense to not agree with everything your preferred candidate says, but to me Europe is too fundamental of an issue to just brush over.
I'm supporting Macron this time (Hamon is a lost cause, and they were the only two of the 5 that weren't corrupt or anti-EU), but it'd be nice to have other Frenchies post in here. I don't want this to be an echo chamber.
Lmfao
lmfao indeed.
I'm kind of sad you guys don't have a qualified woman running as the head of one of the not insane parties.
As for the above, I hope y'all don't quit the EU because there won't be a second. It took a world war and 60 years to get to where we are today. You don't fix it by burning it all down.
Same for me, though I don't think I'm sufficiently well spoken to defend my opinions meaningfully in this thread.
If this is true, and seeing how adamant he is about giving the power to choose back to the people, then I'm not sure this will prove to be much of an issue.
Cabaratier
Neo Member
If you're left and you don't vote, because you don't really like any of the options, you're a fucking idiot. Rightwing voters don't share your qualms. See: nearly everywhere these days.
Smooth Operator
Member
I'll probably vote for Melenchon. I hope the second turn won't be XXXX vs MLP
It will be.
Unless Melenchon siphons a lot of voters from her the second round will definitely be XXXX vs MLP.
Anyway I do think Macron should worry a bit right now but if Melenchon becomes more of a threat I think the more centrist and right wing french voters will respond by blocking Melenchon from reaching the second round. It's also possibly the polls may be overestimating Melenchon right now.
Polls are probably overestimating Macron if it's anyone they're overestimating.
I thought Fillon would be since he's from an established party and also under investigation and has way too much baggage. At least Macron is trying to get the youth vote out.
Technically both Macron and Fillon are similar to hilary in a way. Fillon has been described as corrupt and out of touch like her while the biggest thing that hilary and macron share is that they both support big business and pro-globalization. Macron is more fresh then hilary, is not tied to anything that can label him as corrupt and he actually wants to make changes to the political system. Macron also has little ties to the current establishment besides his work with the Hollande's government.Technically fillon is closer to the french's hilary while Macron is almost completely different from her.
I agree, but at the same time I do think he would be the most likely to benefit if Melenchon rises further in the polls unless the right decides to go back to fillon en masse which is not likely at this point because of how low he is polling currently against le pen in the second round according to some polls.
I think you're wrong on this. Popularity polls are even better for him than presidential ones iirc.
About Mélenchon, someone on twitter summed it up : if we're lucky, he'll be Tsipras. If we're not, he'll be Chavez.
I think he'll be the former, if I had to guess. His program is tailored for the anti-globalist left but vague enough in the end, and he's been part of the government a while ago.
Bad news is that if he disappoints as a president, the left - not just the PS - is pretty much dead.
Bad news is that if he disappoints as a president, the left - not just the PS - is pretty much dead.
Stop relying on polls FFS...
Haven't you learned the lesson with Brexit and Trump already ?
Alx
Member
Brexit and Trump don't decredibilize polls, it just remembers us that they need to be interpreted and that things change a lot with time. Hence why polls have been especially useful (and effective) and following trends.
As a matter of fact what's bothering me right now is that the current trend sees the gap narrowing in a potential Macron/MLP second round. It's only for the last few days, but it's apparent.
I still wonder why Macron doesn't play the Bayrou card more. The most common attacks he gets is "he's another Hollande", and all the defections of socialists to his team are strengthening that image. So it could help if he remembered people that he also has support from other parts of the political spectrum.
Brexit was around 50/50 in the polls, and national US polls gave Clinton ahead by around the same margin where she ended.
My point was that Macron isn't Clinton. He's a newcomer in politics and not as hated as she is.
Lmfao
Russian money well spent.
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