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[Koopakiller]

Not even close. XBLIG and PSN Minis are both ghettoized within their respective DD services and have various limits imposed on them with regard to updates, price, file size, how much of the actual system's hardware resources they can use, and a bunch of other stipulations.

All that sounds pretty fucking negligible to me. You can come up with just as many OUYA limitations - the point is - if you're an indie dev and you want to make a console game - you can. Right now. You might not make as much money there as on iOS or Steam but you'll have a console game

This device is designed for end-users who want easy-easy-easy everything. Games handed to them on a platter.

It's not that easy to find good games through Android either - this will probably be a step up but who know's how much. Still pretty negligible.

 

[element]

Those tens of thousands bought the device for games specifically. Porting to Ouya should take almost no time or effort for developers' whose games are good candidates, so why not do it if there's a decent install base that continues to grow?

Why is there this impression it is 'no effort' or 'super easy' to port to this? They games they are pushing aren't on Android, they are PC. Porting PC to Android while not a nightmare, it isn't 'Save as Android'.
With these 'indie' developers, there is pros and cons to supporting additional devices and sometimes it doesn't make sense to do so.

This device is designed for end-users who want easy-easy-easy everything. Games handed to them on a platter.

How is that different than 360 or PS3? 360 I've got a huge ad telling me there is a new game out. PSN Store tells me the same thing. Don't you think that with this ease of publishing you will have tons of applications on their marketplace, which makes searching a bitch. I'm sure they won't say no to placement dollars, so you are going to have front loaded content (ads).

 

[Einbroch]

Yeah. Let's take an indie game with zero DRM and also who gives it out for pay as you want. I'm talking about BF3, Rage, and others.

Also, from 2008. A ton of people I know used to pirate games but with the evolution of Steam and the amazing deals we get today...people just spend their $10 instead of pirating.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

All that sounds pretty fucking negligible to me. You can come up with just as many OUYA limitations - the point is - if you're an indie dev and you want to make a console game - you can. Right now. You might not make as much money there as on iOS or Steam but you'll have a console game



It's not that easy to find good games through Android either - this will probably be a step up but who know's how much. Still pretty negligible.

You grossly underestimate how "ghettoized" XBLIG is on the XBL storefront and community. Also PS MINIs is not an open system in any shape or form. Playstation Mobile will be open but iirc is not coming to PS3?

 

[Brad Grenz]

You grossly underestimate how "ghettoized" XBLIG is on the XBL storefront and community. Also PS MINIs is not an open system in any shape or form. Playstation Mobile will be open but iirc is not coming to PS3?

So your solution is a hardware ghetto? Ouya is like XBLIG with no barrier for entry, with the added benefit of almost no install base. As "ghettoized" as XBLIG is, you're still going to have 50 times as many eyeballs on your shitty dating sim.

 

[Koopakiller]

You grossly underestimate how "ghettoized" XBLIG is on the XBL storefront and community. Also PS MINIs is not an open system in any shape or form. Playstation Mobile will be open but iirc is not coming to PS3?

The more open you get, the more ghettoized you get. That's why shit shouldn't be completely open - when it's completely open, you're encouraging shitware and when you get to the point where consumers have to wade through thousands of piles of shit to get to the single shining gem - that's when you've failed.

OUYA dudes should be going for something more like Steam, some quality screening. But with a kinder rejection process.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

So your solution is a hardware ghetto? Ouya is like XBLIG with no barrier for entry, with the added benefit of almost no install base. As "ghettoized" as XBLIG is, you're still going to have 50 times as many eyeballs on your shitty dating sim.

Oh, I have no clue whether this thing will fail or not. I was just stating that XBLIG is in worse condition then he probably thinks. Though I think for small scale developers with Android versions of games that work well with sticks, it may be worth doing a quick port if you can launch day one of the device.

The more open you get, the more ghettoized you get. That's why shit shouldn't be completely open - when it's completely open, you're encouraging shitware and when you get to the point where consumers have to wade through thousands of piles of shit to get to the single shining gem - that's when you've failed.

OUYA dudes should be going for something more like Steam, some quality screening. But with a kinder rejection process.

Agree 100%, it needs some mild curation.

 

[Antiochus]

Considering backlash and ill will present in the last 4-5 years between gaming consumers and the corporate producers, and with all indications that the various malfeasance in the past will continue if not worsen, Ouya can very well supply a viable alternative for the disgrunteld 2-3 years from now.

 

[Truespeed]

Piracy is a problem on the PC, but not even close to what it is on Android.

iFishing. 98% piracy rate.
Football Manager Handheld. 9:1 piracy rate.
FaceFighter. 70:1 piracy rate.

I'm sorry, but even on the PC there aren't anything remotely close those numbers. You might see as much as a 30% piracy rate (rare!), but nothing above 50% let alone close to 90%!!

Yeah, not even close. Especially with Cevat saying the PC has a 15-20:1 piracy rate and Crysis 2 being the most pirated game in 2011. Not Even Remotely Close.

The fragmentation also causes piracy. Hell I rooted my Kindle Fire BECAUSE I couldn't play certain games on it, even though it was an Android device. How are users going to feel that there is a cool game on Google Play, but they can't buy it because it isn't on the Android Device store? Depending how easy it is to hack (which should be easy), they will just steal it.

But, the Fire isn't Android. But, that probably didn't stop you from flashing jank alpha ROM's onto it and giving 1 star reviews on the Play store because the game didn't work on your Kindle.

 

[Matt]

But, the Fire isn't Android.

Yeah it is...

 

[Koopakiller]

Considering backlash and ill will present in the last 4-5 years between gaming consumers and the corporate producers, and with all indications that the various malfeasance in the past will continue if not worsen, Ouya can very well supply a viable alternative for the disgrunteld 2-3 years from now.

That's like saying "people will stop buying CoD because Activision is evil". The people who actually take a stand like that are totally negligible.

Yeah, not even close. Especially with Cevat saying the PC has a 15-20:1 piracy rate and Crysis 2 being the most pirated game in 2011. Not Even Remotely Close.

Android piracy is bad and PC piracy is bad. Two bad's don't equal a good. This is why Crysis 2 is also on consoles.

 

[wildfire]

Android piracy is bad and PC piracy is bad. Two bad's don't equal a good. This is why Crysis 2 is also on consoles.

His point is that if piracy on the PC is no different than Android than everyone saying devs won't support Ouya because of Android piracy are erecting a strawman.

 

[Hieberrr]

His point is that if piracy on the PC is no different than Android than everyone saying devs won't support Ouya because of Android piracy are erecting a strawman.

Android piracy is much worse. You literally Google something something apk, and you're golden. All that shit is probably on one website similar to how pirated ROMs are on a single site.

Plus, Android games are what... an average of 3-5MB in size?

 

[Truespeed]

Yeah it is...

Yeah, not really.

 

[Koopakiller]

His point is that if piracy on the PC is no different than Android than everyone saying devs won't support Ouya because of Android piracy are erecting a strawman.

Well, from what's been posted, Android piracy does sound much worse. There was a thread awhile back about Minecraft piracy and it was something like 50%. The android version is probably a higher percentage. It also feels somewhat justified because with all of the fragmentation on Android, buying a game does not mean that it will run on your device so if you buy a lot of Android games, you've probably wasted a lot of money. Although I'm not supporting piracy when I say that - better to research the game first to see if it can run on your device

 

[wildfire]

Well everyone has their own little source with no real access to metrics.


Regardless this concern about developing to Ouya is misguided because people are already developing for Android in general. What needs to be looked at is if Ouya will try to address fragmentation with their SDK. If they have something that allows easy porting to phones so fragmentation doesn't break games it will be big reason to just make games for their device and port games and apps afterwards.

Now for something a little amusing.

Yep, that’s about it. All you have to do is have some electronics geek put together an interesting looking mother board, go in CAD and make some shiny box, mill it, polish it, shoot it on video, rent an office for a day, make it look busy, have lots of slow-mo, have a woman say she’s got balls and then put something in about you wanting to put this or that industry in the face aaaaandddd BAM, 4 million dollars!

 

[onQ123]

XBMC for Android app revealed; source code available now, beta APKs soon (video)

Surprise surprise, after popping up on the iPad last year, XBMC developers revealed tonight that they've created a version of the media center that runs as an Android app. Currently the team has it stable on the Pivos XIOS DS set-top box, and posted a video (embedded after the break) showing it running on a phone and a tablet. Of course, the different varieties of Android hardware audio and video decoding is mostly a software only affair, but universal hardware decoding is in the plan. The truly dedicated can dig up the source code right now, but APKs for beta testers are promised "in the coming weeks." According to the blog post, it currently includes a community member created touch oriented skin and hopes to have more available before any version of this hits Google Play officially.

I can see this being used on OUYA.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

XBMC for Android app revealed; source code available now, beta APKs soon (video)

I can see this being used on OUYA.

Nah, they already showed off the terrible metro UI. They're sticking with it.

 

[Benedict]

Nah, they already showed off the terrible metro UI. They're sticking with it.

But you could use it as an app in their UI. Doesn't have to replace their UI.

 

[Elfforkusu]

re: fragmentation, I think that's why they want to do a separate store. Android apps have to deal with fragmentation as long as they exist -- but Ouya apps/games, while being "Android apps", could essentially be targeted to a single hardware form factor. It helps development, at least until they release Ouya 2 with 300% the CPU power and 8 GB of RAM.

All that sounds pretty fucking negligible to me. You can come up with just as many OUYA limitations - the point is - if you're an indie dev and you want to make a console game - you can. Right now. You might not make as much money there as on iOS or Steam but you'll have a console game

For what console? 360 (XNA == C#)? Not doing it. PSN? Yeah right. Steam?

Spoiler

Yes, I'm calling Steam a console

Good luck getting into the store.

This is absolutely a big deal for independent development. If you have the knowhow, you can write games in C++ or java. They will play on many people's TVs. You do not have to buy in to an expensive dev kit to get started, you do not have to rewrite your codebase in another language to suit the whims of Microsoft/whoever, you do not have to take a Valve employee hostage to get your game into the marketplace.

It's not as straightforward programming-wise as PC development, which is why (ultimately) a "Steam-box" could be superior if done right, but the fact of the matter is that this thing is vastly superior than any option on the market today.

Spoiler

PS: I might make a game for this thing.

 

[Dreamwriter]

How is that different than 360 or PS3? 360 I've got a huge ad telling me there is a new game out. PSN Store tells me the same thing. Don't you think that with this ease of publishing you will have tons of applications on their marketplace, which makes searching a bitch. I'm sure they won't say no to placement dollars, so you are going to have front loaded content (ads).

You have a huge ad on the front page telling you about a new indie game on the XBLIG? That's specifically what I was talking about, not XBLA which is an incredibly closed system, almost as closed as PSN Mini's.

 

[Absinthe]

XBMC for Android app revealed; source code available now, beta APKs soon (video)

I can see this being used on OUYA.

 

[Matt]

Yeah, not really.

It's as Android as anything else with a skin and without the Play Store.

 

[FieryBalrog]

I thought they have a trackpad on the controller?

Yeah, man. That trackpad will totally be a sweet way of playing games on a large screen TV.

 

[Krilekk]

Yeah. Let's take an indie game with zero DRM and also who gives it out for pay as you want. I'm talking about BF3, Rage, and others.

Just google "pc piracy rate" and you'll find many statements regarding the ultra high piracy rates on PC from respected developers such as Reflections, Crytek and many more.

 

[element]

Yeah, not really.

what are you talking about? How on earth is it 'not really'? I guess Amazon is wrong in their marketing, and the press, and me. I mean I thought I put APKs on there, but what do I know about computers.

fragmentation, I think that's why they want to do a separate store.

no. they want their own store so google doesn't get a cut and they won't be forced to use google services.

Android apps have to deal with fragmentation as long as they exist -- but Ouya apps/games, while being "Android apps", could essentially be targeted to a single hardware form factor.

Fragmentation is due to partners not pushing updates, and the SDK has matured so rapidly that certain games don't work on certain platforms. So you have SDK fragmentation. You have hardware fragmentation. You have Store fragmentation. Android is a mess.

Android piracy is rampant for a couple reasons.
1. Rooting the device is EASY.
2. Finding APK are EASY.
3. File sizes are small.

I think piracy is awful. But sadly, selling a device that is being sold as 'hackable' wouldn't want to make me make games for it.

You have a huge ad on the front page telling you about a new indie game on the XBLIG? That's specifically what I was talking about, not XBLA which is an incredibly closed system, almost as closed as PSN Mini's.

I'm comparing their interface to the metro interface, in that there will be fronted ads to promote certain games and you will still have to find good content. Especially if there is little or no curation.

you do not have to take a Valve employee hostage to get your game into the marketplace.

Valve did just announce Greenlight.

360 (XNA == C#)?

XNA is dead with Win8. Go native or go HTML5/CSS3.

 

[pants]

We’ve been hearing your questions on everything from how you’ll discover games on OUYA (we’re focused on both discovery and curation), to whether we’ll have different symbols on the buttons for the color-blind (yes, we’ll need to address that), and whether or not we’ll have an Ethernet port (stay tuned on that), and much more.

Why is it even a point of discussion to include an Ethernet port or not?

 

[tino]

A lot of new Android apps will authenticate itself when running. If it doesn't authenticate it will reverse itself back to the free version.

Pirating a paid Android app/game is not easier than pirating a PC application nowadays.

 

[element]

Why is it even a point of discussion to include an Ethernet port or not?

cost.

 

[pants]

cost.

If an expert can chime in here, does this increase the board complexity significantly? Increased cost in tcp/ip stack/driver testing? Or is it just the part itself?

For me if I am selling games digitally as my primary income I would be prioritizing an Ethernet port and WiFi.

 

[element]

If an expert can chime in here, does this increase the board complexity significantly? Increased cost in tcp/ip stack/driver testing? Or is it just the part itself?

For me if I am selling games digitally as my primary income I would be prioritizing an Ethernet port and WiFi.

It doesn't add too much complexity to the board, but it is additional parts during manufacturing. When you are building at these numbers, penny counts.

I remember back in the xbox days that they didn't think about basic manufacturing things like screws. I mean you think labor, you think the big parts (CPU, GPU, RAM, board, PSU, case), but they got yelled at for forgetting things like screws, power cable, and such.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

I demand an Ethernet port!!!!!!

 

[Canis lupus]

I demand an Ethernet port!!!!!!

Wait, it doesnt have such a basic thing?

 

[pants]

It doesn't add too much complexity to the board, but it is additional parts during manufacturing. When you are building at these numbers, penny counts.

I remember back in the xbox days that they didn't think about basic manufacturing things like screws. I mean you think labor, you think the big parts (CPU, GPU, RAM, board, PSU, case), but they got yelled at for forgetting things like screws, power cable, and such.

Yeah, I get what you say about pennies becoming large numbers over the scale of manufacture this size, I'd just rather they skimp elsewhere.

 

[element]

Wait, it doesnt have such a basic thing?

That gives you an idea of the maturity of the device. They are still deciding.

 

[Polari]

They should just release a USB Ethernet adaptor, the thing is cheap enough that the small minority of people who want Ethernet can shell out $10 or so for it.

 

[twofold]

Another article expressing scepticism about the Ouya.

http://blog.thirdyearmba.com/why-ouya-is-too-good-to-be-true

The author makes a number of good points, and I agree with his conclusion. I won't be investing in this Kickstarter - there's too much work to be done in too little time and I don't believe the Ouya team will be able to pull it off. I wish them the best of luck, though.

 

[Stealth20k]

www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-14-saturday-soapbox-the-trouble-with-ouya


this is another, not so good article

 

[KDR_11k]

I think piracy statistics aren't nearly as meaningful as the sales numbers. Whether you've got 5% or 50000% piracy rate doesn't matter as much as whether there are plenty of people who do buy your game. Yes, it can eat into your sales but there's usually very little you can do about it anyway (most measures hurt your legitimate buyers more than the pirates). I've seen most PC indies take the stance of "piracy happens, just worry about selling your game". Look at why Steam is a more beneficial platform to be on than XBLIG: What good is a low piracy rate when people just don't buy your game?

Which brings us to the big problem with Android, people just don't buy games on it. I'm still thinking that the stupid lack of non-CC payment options is the big problem. These days you can even buy Facebook credits in a store (never mind iTunes or Nintendo cards) but Google money? Still no such option. And while Steam may not have cards at retail they at least offer things like direct debit. That's why Android has a reputation that people want ads and free to play over paying a dollar on a game.

Yeah, the phone marketplaces have more outright garbage games than even XBLIG but that's not stopping iOS.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Wait, it doesnt have such a basic thing?

Nor does the Wii or the Wii-U

 

[Pie and Beans]

I'm curious as to how Ouya plans to get around all the patents the other console and hardware makers have to pay for the privilege of dipping into.

This whole thing feels pretty silly and a great example of how susceptible to rolling empty hype most of the internet is if its promising "change" and "openness". That this openness and more is available in the form of a slim-box PC with a wireless 360 controller makes the whole thing kinda eyebrow raising anyway. But effort, so.

 

[pants]

They should just release a USB Ethernet adaptor, the thing is cheap enough that the small minority of people who want Ethernet can shell out $10 or so for it.

How do you figure it is a small minority?

 

[sakipon]

www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-14-saturday-soapbox-the-trouble-with-ouya


this is another, not so good article

I liked the end conclusion about using this Kickstarter to attract investors. It seems extremely likely.

Ouya has potential but I'm not getting into this before I see the finished model in the hands of GAF gamers.

 

[wildfire]

Another article expressing scepticism about the Ouya.

http://blog.thirdyearmba.com/why-ouya-is-too-good-to-be-true

The author makes a number of good points, and I agree with his conclusion. I won't be investing in this Kickstarter - there's too much work to be done in too little time and I don't believe the Ouya team will be able to pull it off. I wish them the best of luck, though.

I'm impressed. That was actually some good analysis and worthwhile criticisms that should make anyone reconsider donating to this project. They already acquired around 5 million so let's just see what they produce with the money they will be getting a month.

 

[mediapulp_wes]

I was ready to jump on this the first time I came across it. Glad I waited and read plenty of the analysis of it. Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole now. Anyone who bought this to use as a games console would be far better off saving their money.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Another article expressing scepticism about the Ouya.

http://blog.thirdyearmba.com/why-ouya-is-too-good-to-be-true

The author makes a number of good points, and I agree with his conclusion. I won't be investing in this Kickstarter - there's too much work to be done in too little time and I don't believe the Ouya team will be able to pull it off. I wish them the best of luck, though.

The author's only really got two points - he doesn't think it could be made for $99, and he doesn't know who works there. The cost is a point a lot of people bring up, but the employee thing is just strange. I mean, he complains that there are mystery employees who haven't left their day jobs to work at Ouya...but how would Ouya pay those people *before* getting money from Kickstarter? I couldn't afford to leave my job and work for free right now no matter how awesome the job, and I don't know many people who could.

And he ignores the fact that Ed Fries is on the team, who has plenty of experience not only with the XBox, but with getting hardware manufactured and with startups.

 

[R1CHO]

The people that says that 99$ is not possible have the same idea that the people that says that the device is more or less as powerful as a 360/ps3...

That said, 99$ is a price with a very low margin right now... in 9-12 months? we will see.

 

[sykoex]

The author's only really got two points - he doesn't think it could be made for $99, and he doesn't know who works there. The cost is a point a lot of people bring up, but the employee thing is just strange. I mean, he complains that there are mystery employees who haven't left their day jobs to work at Ouya...but how would Ouya pay those people *before* getting money from Kickstarter? I couldn't afford to leave my job and work for free right now no matter how awesome the job, and I don't know many people who could.

And he ignores the fact that Ed Fries is on the team, who has plenty of experience not only with the XBox, but with getting hardware manufactured and with startups.

Regarding the low price, maybe they hope to stay profitable through their cut of marketplace transactions.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Another article expressing scepticism about the Ouya.

http://blog.thirdyearmba.com/why-ouya-is-too-good-to-be-true

The author makes a number of good points, and I agree with his conclusion. I won't be investing in this Kickstarter - there's too much work to be done in too little time and I don't believe the Ouya team will be able to pull it off. I wish them the best of luck, though.

This was an interesting read. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Here are more people on the Ouya team: Amol Sarva of Peek, founder of Virgin Mobile. Peter Pham of Color Labs, and Muffi Ghadiali, who worked for Amazon's Lab126 that made the Kindle.

Seems they have plenty of entrepreneurs on the team with experience in successful startups and getting things manufactured, in both big and small teams.