SpiceMelange
Member
Op is so fundamentally wrong at this point it's misinformation on the game.
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Overwatch marks a new low in Unlocking and Microtransaction systems that I'm aware of
- Thread starter Saty
- Start date
SocksAndShoes
Banned
And you paid $60 or more for a 5-10 hour game, for most of them.
Budgets are massive now. Staffs are huge and have to be paid. The industry is a completely different beast now.
As ridiculous as your "The world never changes!" posts in defence of a game that changed how things work
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Sheesh. The voice lines you buy are activated at will. God forbid you have to pay 25 coins so you can spam "Is this easy mode?" every time you play D.Va. All of the contextual voice lines are still there in the game and don't require unlocking.
How many FPS games launch with 21 different builds that are actually viable? I'm not counting the random-ass gun that you unlock every time you level up after every game--because I'm pretty comfortable saying that 99% of what they give out is actually filler content. Nobody is going to use it for more than a single game before they find something that is actually better.
Nor am I counting swapping out a single perk--I'm talking about things that radically change the way you play the game, all available within a reasonable timeframe.
Adding maps has always seemed like a really weird way to say, "Oh! It has content!" Man, how many maps are absolute shit to play on? How many of them are basically just junk tossed around a square map?
Nor am I counting swapping out a single perk--I'm talking about things that radically change the way you play the game, all available within a reasonable timeframe.
Adding maps has always seemed like a really weird way to say, "Oh! It has content!" Man, how many maps are absolute shit to play on? How many of them are basically just junk tossed around a square map?
SocksAndShoes
Banned
Game design is not an easy thing and yes, it takes years. It's bizarre that you're actually arguing against that.
sammyCYBORG
Member
Lots of games are still 5-10 hours buddy, and offer micro transactions.
I know the industry has changed, I'm not an idiot. I don't agree with the shift of finding additional revenue through these cheap and annoying means.
Only if we're going to pretend that a) there are still tons of games released today that are "complete products" and b) those past products could never be updated to fix bugs and a ton of "classics" from past generations were so short that they would be ripped apart in threads like this if released today?
SocksAndShoes
Banned
One game by a large AAA studio does not a revolution make my friend.
So what about arcades?
Because it doesn't benefit the player.
'just happen to be'. Right. And i'm sure future updates are going to add more lines to unlock\buy.
Game has a portion of character chatter locked. There's no pressing need to have it locked because they have other stuff there. I value chatter. I think it has more value than cosmetics. I dislike having to arbitrarily unlock stuff of value. Still nobody provided an example for a full-priced game doing the same. So i'm going to call out on Blizzard setting a bad precedent.
It's not hard to make an unobtrusive unlocking system. It's well documented. In my eyes Speech should be treated like any other element that isn't part of the unlock system.
I see we reached the part when users who have no relevant argument to share resort to mocking.
There is no flaw. I addressed that. Having available speech doesn't justify having locked speech. In fact, it only emphasizes the cynicism in locking some away.
I find the random loot box incredibly distasteful as it can really affect people with gambling problems and it's obviously designed to milk people as much as possible. It's not new but it's distasteful just the same. Destiny does it COD does it and it makes me play those games less because of it.
So you are seriously saying we have 3 years before we see more modes and maps for over watch? That's what your argument is saying I just want to be clear. Because you're dead wrong and just pushing a bad defense here.
shiftplusone
Member
What is $60 in measurable content?
I paid 60 bucks for doom which has a multiplayer that I fucking HATE, and a single player campaign that I'm really really enjoying
I paid 60 bucks for overwatch which has a really really fun multiplayer that I am loving and can't get enough of it
Both were worthy purchases, both offer different content. There is no $60 of objective worthwhile content
You're just going to have to get over yourself
SocksAndShoes
Banned
Then you'd be okay with paying up to triple digits for a game? Because that's the only realistic alternative.
SpiceMelange
Member
I love how OP just selectively quotes whatever he feels like it
Wickerbasket
Member
It's hard to compare it to other games because it's so different.
But the closest game it could be compared to is TF2 which launched with 9 classes, 6 maps and 4 game modes.
Contrast this with Overwatch, which launched with 24 characters, 12 maps and 4 game modes.
Looks more reasonable doesn't it?
So again like I said, it's on you if you bought it and aren't happy with the content. Pretty sure they even said the beta was content complete.
Edit: if you were that bothered you'd have done some research and found a description of everything in the game on the freaking website.
My dude you can literally make that argument for any system. Making money in general off of consumer products is going to include distasteful elements. Isn't it distasteful to include higher-priced costumes because someone might impulse buy it? I think that's designed to milk people with poor impulse control.
You should get your facts straight. TF2 had a handful of maps at launch and 9 characters. Battlefield launched with around 10 maps or so? No idea where you're getting that "far far more content" from. And soulless? That's the last thing Overwatch is.
I guess some people prefer the idiocy of map packs and such. Let's charge to fragment the userbase.
Haven't been able to read the entire thread, but the premise is flawed IMO.
The voice lines you "unlock" are just context-less threats/jokes/mantras, providing perhaps a very small window into what the character is like, but not much.
The voice lines that provide actual characterization (and the short conversations between characters) pop up randomly before a match based on which hero is there and what map it is. Those happen randomly for everyone, and are not unlocked by any means. Saying that characterization is being locked behind micro-transactions is massively overselling those one-liners.
My only gripe with the voice line unlocks is that you can only equip one at a time.
The voice lines you "unlock" are just context-less threats/jokes/mantras, providing perhaps a very small window into what the character is like, but not much.
The voice lines that provide actual characterization (and the short conversations between characters) pop up randomly before a match based on which hero is there and what map it is. Those happen randomly for everyone, and are not unlocked by any means. Saying that characterization is being locked behind micro-transactions is massively overselling those one-liners.
My only gripe with the voice line unlocks is that you can only equip one at a time.
Perfect Cha0s
Member
Can I get a $/map, $/character, $/mode breakdown please?
Let's find the true value of Overwatch.
SocksAndShoes
Banned
...Really?
I mean, really? That's what you're going to take from my post? That I'm declaring a 3 year dev cycle for new maps and modes?
Come on man.
No, we reached the point of mocking right after your initial post. Your arguments were that bad
do you not see the problem though?
"very few games will release as whole", except that you assume that these games are making the entirety of their costs back (plus reasonable profit) out of first sales. Publishers and developers have said numerous times, especially games with ongoing online costs or AAA titles with dev teams of hundreds.. that the $60 model doesn't guarantee a profit these days, even on games that sell hundreds of thousands (or even millions depending on the size of development)
So what would you rather have... games with OPTIONAL microtransactions, or games with $80-100 minimum costs of entry? (i.e. not CEs, not SEs, but just the base games)
people instantly resort to "greed" on microtransactions.. but the costs (and especially ongoing costs for online games) are exorbitant even though first sale pricing hasn't gone up on retail titles in 10 years.
Comrade Crunch
Member
The complaints regarding the microtransactions baffle me. Everything in the game is able to be gotten by playing, the only thing you can buy is the exact same things you get by leveling up.
Getting everything requires an investment of time, like it does in every game, the microtransactions are there for people who simply don't have time or who aren't willing to play for that long but still want to unlock things at a steady pace.
It really just sounds like a lot of people just want every cosmetic immediately unlocked or something. Where's the point in that? It's fun getting a cool unlock to show off to others, it's part of the experience of a social game.
Getting everything requires an investment of time, like it does in every game, the microtransactions are there for people who simply don't have time or who aren't willing to play for that long but still want to unlock things at a steady pace.
It really just sounds like a lot of people just want every cosmetic immediately unlocked or something. Where's the point in that? It's fun getting a cool unlock to show off to others, it's part of the experience of a social game.
KillerDark
Member
Good thing you can listen to them any time you want, even though they are locked, by going into that characters screen. They are barely characterization, the banter between characters provides significantly more than any of the locked one liners. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.
Honestly, the game hardly even has anything that counts as friendly fire. Neither Mei nor Winston has an ability that can hurt their team, as far as I recall. So if you're coordinating to the point an apology is necesarry, you're probably already taking through voice chat.
Oh fuck I want that line.
You know, when I'm still probably going to be playing this for years down the line like I end up doing for most of the Blizzard games released, threads like this will look really freaking dumb.
Then again, there will be people who have sunk 100 of hours playing and having fun (I assume? I guess hate-playing is a thing) going "I'M STILL MISSING A VOICE LINE, MY CONTENT!!!"
Then again, there will be people who have sunk 100 of hours playing and having fun (I assume? I guess hate-playing is a thing) going "I'M STILL MISSING A VOICE LINE, MY CONTENT!!!"
SocksAndShoes
Banned
New heros, maps and modes are free and always will be.
In terms of unlocks from games I've played recently DOA5 for costumes and Guilty Gear with voice samples/announcers, plus the grind for currency to buy customizations in TekkenTag 2 that reminded me of Virtua Fighter 5 (original). Most of this stuff can be unlocked by regular play as in Overwatch, right? But it's locked content that you need to spend time, sometimes a lot of time, unlocking.
i don't really have an issue with blizzard making cosmetic stuff microtransaction based but i'd much rather be able to pay a few bucks a pop for the shit that i want than have my only option be paying for loot boxes
that said if this is the business model that prevents actual important shit like maps/guns from costing money that's way preferable
that said if this is the business model that prevents actual important shit like maps/guns from costing money that's way preferable
I see your argument. But for me, it makes me play more because instead of quickly getting everything I want there will always be the chance I will randomly get something cool. So there is that carrot on a stick keeping me interested. I feel that for people who have gambling problems this does suck, but they would find temptation somewhere else even if there are no loot boxes in Overwatch.
CambriaRising
Member
Where do people get this BS? This isn't even remotely true in spite of what some scumbag devs would have you believe.
shiftplusone
Member
But all the guns and items you want to use are locked away! VALUE!
I'm not sure there's a big market for "people with gambling problems buying a shooter video game to buy boxes"
Making people pay for it in the first place is distasteful because some people have problems with overspending
All the maps are shit, 0 dollars
All the modes are lame, 0 dollars
Half the characters are shit, others are anime, 200 dollars?
60 dollars is a steal
SocksAndShoes
Banned
Triple digits is probably a stretch, but I can easily envision a world where $85 becomes the norm.
Wickerbasket
Member
You forgot to put a dollar value on their voiced lines.
Inspector Jones
Member
Not that I think Blizzard will go down this route; but TF2 didn't have loadouts at launch either, nor any other signs of micropayments.
That said, right now I have absolutely no qualms about Blizzard's system they have set up. All cosmetic things that don't affect the game at all and content can be unlocked through normal play.
I get how some of you might be mad; but this is imo the best approach. Monetize the shit out of cosmetics, keep all the good content free for everyone.
EDIT: Seriously, fuck paying for map packs or additional characters; that shit is way worse.
with visual, gameplay and content expectations from us players at a FRACTION of what we expect from games now, and development teams 1/20th the size to make those games. I mean are you just going to ignore that?
How many people do you think it took to make
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compared to how many people it took to create
nkarafo
Member
Yup. Gamers standards are pretty low these days. I wonder what things we will defend in 5 or 10 years from now.
I think it's fine for the most part. Only thing I dont like is how rare loot boxes are.
I don't know why they didn't just follow the Hearthstone model in term of in game currency.
Like reward us with a bit of credits every 5 wins or so. Its not much but it adds up.
Being able to only get loot boxes through leveling up is kinda dumb and too far in between.
Granted when Hearthstone first released they were way more stingy on giving out packs, but recently they become way more generous in that regard. Im hoping the same thing happens in overwatch.
I don't know why they didn't just follow the Hearthstone model in term of in game currency.
Like reward us with a bit of credits every 5 wins or so. Its not much but it adds up.
Being able to only get loot boxes through leveling up is kinda dumb and too far in between.
Granted when Hearthstone first released they were way more stingy on giving out packs, but recently they become way more generous in that regard. Im hoping the same thing happens in overwatch.
RichiRamjag
Member
Folks are really working to try and turn people against overwatch lately. I don't have an issue with the content, it's a fun game and it has enough content currently to entertain me. In regards to microtransactions, I don't care about cosmetics and it that keeps all DLC free, then fine by me.
Gravy Boat
Member
I got to level 25(ish) on the beta and I'm level 5 now, so that's 28 crates and I got 2 legendaries (one on the beta, one in my 2nd crate in the full game) and 6 epics in the beta. I think the legendary drop rates are much higher than you're estimating, unless I just got really lucky. But everyone I know has recieved at least a couple of legendaries, and all of them are below level 50.
SmartWaffles
Member
TF2 was $20, Overwatch is $40 on PC so that content comparison sounds about right. Yes I know on consoles it is $60, but that's more like a console physical release issue because there is little money to earn for a $40 physical release.
SocksAndShoes
Banned
"Gamers" comprise a tiny, tiny portion of the actual game market though.
winkyface
Also proper sticker placement can raise the value of some maps. Roadhog's one which is a running pig with his mask, for one, is of utmost class and good taste.
Look buddy after backpedaling on how important they are to characterization, then backpedaling how they are important to the experience, can you just admit you're concern trolling for the sake of talking down a game people like?
You don't have the game and it's laughable you are throwing this much defense up behind having a few freaking audio clips, that might be spammed once for a bit in spawn and do not add anything to the actual game, locked behind RNG.
You don't have to pay for loot boxes, the voice lines are pretty unimportant, yet you are here argueing for pages about how a feature even less significant than wall sprays is locked behind RNG. And before you throw up the defense of why they are unlockable, well, why not? They're just another layer of customization and it's not like those recorded voice lines fit any other context.
With that said, I would love for you to make a case for how they actually add to the enjoyment at all, since reading your arguments until this point it seems pretty apparent you are just generally complaining about how these voice lines not being unlocked detract from your enjoyment without even making a single exampl in exactly how they add to your enjoyment of the game.
I can't really see how they, so significantly too, actually add to the enjoyment to validate such a diligent effort to shame the game for locking them, so please, explain this mystical enjoyment of yours being affected by something petty as not being able to say a single insignificant line on command.
TatteredHat
Member
People getting upset over having to unlock the Overwatch equivalent of Twitch Kappa emotes are hilarious.