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[borghe]

I guess the way this could be handled is basically if you want unlock stuff via game play as it is now with loot chests or just pay straight up cash for it. Didn't heroes of the storm do this?

Heroes of the storm uses the LoL model (also Marvel Heroes). Gameplay AND cosmetic elements are locked away. Gameplay elements can be acquired over time, or by paying cash. Cosmetics can ONLY be acquired by paying cash.

Most people don't get.. that that's how "pay directly for cosmetics" works. You don't get random drops in game. It is pay-only. Blizzard has done it the way they have because the player actually has a (small) chance of getting the item free in the game. If they did away with that system, the replacement would be like it is in every game where you pay directly. There would be no option to get them for free. It would be pay-only.

As pointed out above.. if they followed the LoL model.. it would damage the game significantly. Your team's composition and flexibility would be based solely on what the random's on your team have decided to pay for, or what is on rotation this week.

 

[Mik317]

I mean....the boxes are literally cosmetic shit that adds nothing to the game but luckily for those of us who lack self control (or have a lot of money to waste...or both) it can be used to fund new shit in the future as well.

why are people so mad again?

 

[Type-Zero]

Ditto. It's simple, out of the way, unobtrusive (I guess that's the same as out of the way) and not needed in the least to enjoy the game. If you don't want to buy it, congratulations, you get a crate each level. If you do, well the option is there. What's so low about this?

I think what OP is getting at is you are paying money to do play slots versus playing the game and then getting a chance to play slots. Uncharted 4 does this better. You play the game earn game points to earn a chance with loot box. If you pay cash you get premium currenncy to get what you want without paying slots. You pay you get what you want no strings attached. The loot box is a game in and of itself... A slot machine.

 

[Warnen]

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
CSGO 500K peak users today. DOTA2 (I know, moba) almost 1M peak players today. Even a 10 year old work horse like ?TF2 is still putting in more than BF4.. and that game is 6 years older than BF4 where most of the competitive user base moved onto CSGO.

Good examples, a low priced game with MTs and FP2 games powered buy MTs. Its almost like. Almost like they could have done the same thing but nay, let gambling feed the beast in your full priced game.

 

[Haly]

Good examples, a low priced game with MTs and FP2 games powered buy MTs. Its almost like. Almost like they could have done the same thing but nay, let gambling feed the beast in your full priced game.

It's almost as if Blizzard wasn't Valve and the Overwatch team is only a fraction of Blizzard's entire business whereas CS:GO and Dota 2 are Valve's workhorses.

There's a reason why only Valve does it this way. It's because only Valve has the biggest PC games storefront in the world.

Try a little nuance. It goes a long way.

 

[caleb1915]

What? Really, what??
New low? One liners? Clothes? In a purebred multiplayer team fps? Is that what you're worried about?

Let's dismiss the notion that you can unlock everything by playing.

Sorry, that's too much for me. What a thread.

you and me both, I've only read this far, but I think I've seen enough lol; besides Blood and Wine is out and I'm gonna go get my Witchin' on....

OH SHIT...I just realized I just spent $30 on what just amounts to voice lines containing words that at some point are uttered in the base game already, including the dozens of skins, quest lines, and alternate character outfits that add depth that should've already been there! Goddamn microtransactions in my single player game!....

I'm being completely facetious btw, that seems to be hard to interpret as anything but malicious on Neogaf sometimes ...and OP you have a point. Microtransactions suck in general, and you switching position on your perceived value of voice lines that in your mind influences your enjoyment despite the fact that you can unlock them using reasonable means without paying any money. If we want games to play this well, function exactly as intended, and executed in peak fashion regarding their player base being overwhelmingly positive on the elegance every system is geared towards achieving. That takes a lot of money, development, and work. Work that unfortunately no longer is sustainable with one full time purchase per game. In especially multiplayer-centric titles you need that user base to consistently provide income to not only recoup the costs of spending multiple years developing Titan, and then scrapping that all to completely focus on Overwatch after all that sunk cost, sinking more costs into marketing this new completely different title.

Besides continuing to pay their artists to draw new content, their programmers to consistently update and tweak the game, their map designers to create new spaces for whatever the developers game mode to be realized in the game, and a shit load of money to fund creativity and that means being creative with how you fund it.

 

[borghe]

Good examples, a low priced game with MTs and FP2 games powered buy MTs. Its almost like. Almost like they could have done the same thing but nay, let gambling feed the beast in your full priced game.

except that Blizzard doesn't have the insane revenue from owning 99% of the PC games first sale market. which is conveniently ignored when talk about Valve.

also we already talked (you and I) about how Overwatch is "lower" price. That it's not on consoles is a console thing because of licensing to Sony and MS.

I swear you are being argumentative for its own sake. You seem rational for a bit and then head back into "MTAs!!!!! GAHHHH!!!!"

Blizzard has to keep the game successful. The game has to be profitable on its own accord (i.e. no Steam store cut revenue to subsidize support and development). I believe we all agree that paid characters or gameplay content would hurt the game they are trying to make (all game modes and maps available. All characters available to freely swap mid-game. etc). So they make trivial content (cosmetics) paid behind a f2p mechanic. Even IF they did a different method that allowed players to gain cosmetics faster, at the cost of less revenue to blizzard.. I mean is that REALLY what people want? Less money going into the game for new game modes, new maps and new characters? A game that some are already crying about low content for, and the only means to support new development and people are asking for a smaller budget to support that?

The arguments against MTAs in this thread are pretty poorly thought through. I mean where does that money come from? And how does it benefit the community to make cosmetics easier to obtain, at the expense of smaller budgets to develop new content?

 

[Pellegri Testament]

Good examples, a low priced game with MTs and FP2 games powered buy MTs. Its almost like. Almost like they could have done the same thing but nay, let gambling feed the beast in your full priced game.

I'm sure you can also see the amount of actual development going into those games still. By actual development I mean characters, maps and modes, of which only Dota 2 is having anything meaningful done still, which even that isn't getting much other than characters and balance changes. Outside of that, they get nothing other than more cosmetic items and gameplay affecting weapons, which have a price tag attached to them.

 

[Uthred]

Always amusing seeing long examples of how you're "guaranteed" to get Skin X based on a faulty understanding of probability and figures people pulled out of their arse.

Explain to me which dictionary tells you that it's still gambling if you always win.

All of them?

I don't understand how someone could care enough about sprays, poses, and voice lines to pay actual money. They are the definition of worthless.

So worthless the games post launch monetisation is based solely on them. I'd happily take a 10% cut of that worthlessness. And clearly apart from being worthless to the publisher for earning money theyre worthless to the people spending money to acquire them. A novel definition of worthless to be sure.

I'm sure you can also see the amount of actual development going into those games still. By actual development I mean characters, maps and modes, of which only Dota 2 is having anything meaningful done still, which even that isn't getting much other than characters and balance changes. Outside of that, they get nothing other than more cosmetic items and gameplay affecting weapons, which have a price tag attached to them.

Warframe gets significant and constant development, all of it free to the playerbase and monetised by non-random cosmetics (and a way to earn the premium currency in game)

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I'm sure you can also see the amount of actual development going into those games still. By actual development I mean characters, maps and modes, of which only Dota 2 is having anything meaningful done still, which even that isn't getting much other than characters and balance changes. Outside of that, they get nothing other than more cosmetic items and gameplay affecting weapons, which have a price tag attached to them.

TF2 gets new maps, modes, and weapons (which are free) all the time. It does not get new characters though, I'll give you that.

 

[borghe]

Always amusing seeing long examples of how you're "guaranteed" to get Skin X based on a faulty understanding of probability and figures people pulled out of their arse.

yes, because "750ish purchased boxes across 4 friends including myself" is pulled from our ass............... riiiighht......

Warframe gets significant and constant development, all of it free to the playerbase and monetised by non-random cosmetics (and a way to earn the premium currency in game)

umm.. warframe has gameplay grind negated by currency. crafting time reduction. inventory space. etc. so that is a pretty huge incentive for people to spend money on it. there isn't a single gameplay element in Overwatch to spend money on, and like warframe, nothing to spend money on that can't be earned in game.

 

[Uthred]

yes, because "750ish purchased boxes across 4 friends including myself" is pulled from our ass............... riiiighht......

It's cute that you think that's a useful sample size, I'm sure you carefully collected the data as well, the other one has bells on it (assuming you bought them via microtransaction)

umm.. warframe has gameplay grind negated by currency. crafting time reduction. inventory space. etc. so that is a pretty huge incentive for people to spend money on it. there isn't a single gameplay element in Overwatch to spend money on, and like warframe, nothing to spend money on that can't be earned in game.

And that negates my point or comment how exactly?

 

[dimb]

Good examples, a low priced game with MTs and FP2 games powered buy MTs. Its almost like. Almost like they could have done the same thing but nay, let gambling feed the beast in your full priced game.

I mean...you can buy Overwatch for $40. Not really full price, and both CS:Go and TF2 were slimmer on content than Overwatch on release. The gambling stuff in Valve games is like a billion times worse, and you wind up with the community having to develop content and support the games rather than the developer.

 

[Azriell]

I'm a little annoyed that dialogue is unlockable. The game does a good job of making characters have more presence with their dialogue lines during play, and I really want all of that to be present. However, at the end of the day this is a pretty minor thing to take away, so whatever.

What's worse to me is how shitty the unlocks are in general. Dialogue, poses, and paint aren't fun to unlock. Costumes are great, but since they're outfits and not pieces you just get your favorite and that's that. I'd rather see more cosmetic unlocks, like weapon skins that change your projectiles' color, accessories that make funny sounds or effects, or even hats.

But yeah, if future maps and characters are free then I guess I really can't complain about these superfluous things.

 

[CosmicQueso]

I mean....the boxes are literally cosmetic shit that adds nothing to the game but luckily for those of us who lack self control (or have a lot of money to waste...or both) it can be used to fund new shit in the future as well.

why are people so mad again?

I think it's because they want more unlocks for a lot less money.

 

[Uthred]

I think it's because they want more unlocks for a lot less money.

That seems like a fair and accurate summation of the various objections raised

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I mean...you can buy Overwatch for $40. Not really full price, and both CS:Go and TF2 were slimmer on content than Overwatch on release. The gambling stuff in Valve games is like a billion times worse, and you wind up with the community having to develop content and support the games rather than the developer.

TF2 was bundled with two other games, the gambling stuff is not worse (and wasn't introduced until the game was free), and it had steady developer support until 2014, when the game was seven years old. And while it did launch with less total maps, it had a wider variety of gamemodes (Attack/Defense, 5CP, CTF, and Territorial Control). By the time is was sold standalone (for $20), it had more maps than OW.

I really struggle to see how Overwatch's model is better from a consumer standpoint.

 

[RevenWolf]

]I'm a little annoyed that dialogue is unlockable. The game does a good job of making characters have more presence with their dialogue lines during play, and I really want all of that to be present.[/B] However, at the end of the day this is a pretty minor thing to take away, so whatever.

What's worse to me is how shitty the unlocks are in general. Dialogue, poses, and paint aren't fun to unlock. Costumes are great, but since they're outfits and not pieces you just get your favorite and that's that. I'd rather see more cosmetic unlocks, like weapon skins that change your projectiles' color, accessories that make funny sounds or effects, or even hats.

But yeah, if future maps and characters are free then I guess I really can't complain about these superfluous things.

Except it is all present. The "dialogue" that is locked are just meaningless one liners. AND not only that, but you can only equip one at time during the match.

For example the dialogue I use for Mercy is "Zuper!". That's it, I now have a button that let's me say Zuper, I don't miss out on any actual character dialogue, all that stuff is in there for free.

And thirdly you're allowed to hear all the dialogue without unlocking it, unlocking it simply let's you use it in game.

 

[fastmower]

I think it's because they want more unlocks for a lot less money.

That doesn't sound correct.

 

[Siyou]

Odrion has a really good point. There's no guarantee that even with $100 put in that you will confidently, without a doubt, unlock ALL the content. A good chance is not a guarantee. Especially as a game goes on there will be more content on the rise and a lot will potentially could be locked away in higher tiers, or tiers with higher chance to yield greater treasures.

I also see it all the time, people feeling like they need to pour money into a system with the hopes of unlocking what they want. Legitimately speaking, this is harnessing and deep-rooting hooks into those who can't moderate themselves well, and to those who begin to feel buyer's lament to stand by their devotion, dedication and progress. This system works wonders in the gaming industry, but in my opinion is the bane of it all, too.

However, all I can say is, if this game makes you happy and you want to play it, then do so. Just know that if you ever feel you need question what you're doing or seek validation, then it's time to stop and understand that the carrot in front of you can be grown in the wake of your own efforts elsewhere.

 

[TheYanger]

TF2 was bundled with two other games, the gambling stuff is not worse (and wasn't introduced until the game was free), and it had steady developer support until 2014, when the game was seven years old. And while it did launch with less total maps, it had a wider variety of gamemodes (Attack/Defense, 5CP, CTF, and Territorial Control). By the time is was sold standalone (for $20), it had more maps than OW.

I really struggle to see how Overwatch's model is better from a consumer standpoint.

Are you serious? TF2 didn't have CLOOOSE to the amount of content at launch as overwatch, yeah it came with the orange box so it's hard to compare the two in terms of value, but in terms of absolute "TF2 vs Overwatch" it's not even remotely there. It's a bit disingenuous to pretend "Territorial control" is a mode too when it only had Hydro and everyone fucking hated Hydro (hence why they didn't bother with more maps in that mode EVER).

You say the current system wasn't in until F2P, but the current system has existed since 2010, only the crates were added with the actual money part, the shitty drop system has been there that long, and the prior (worse) drop system was there for almost the entire life of the game, since the sniper/spy update.

Again, in Overwatch you get 4 cosmetics every hour-hour and fifteen minutes. In TF2 even before microtransactions you got a NONCOSMETIC drop 25% of the time every 25 minutes (Hard to explain, google it though if you forget, the system was fucking stupid), and you had a 1/28 chance to get a hat every like 4 and a half hours or some bullshit. You literally could go HUNDREDS of hours of playtime and not get a single god damn hat. Pretty fucking cool setup guys. No really. I had probably 500 hours in TF2 between that update and them putting in the new drop/metal/etc system, and I had 2 hats. How you can even possibly look at that and say "Yeah, that was dope, Overwatch is a scam" is beyond me.

Odrion has a really good point. There's no guarantee that even with $100 put in that you will confidently, without a doubt, unlock ALL the content. A good chance is not a guarantee. Especially as a game goes on there will be more content on the rise and a lot will potentially could be locked away in higher tiers, or tiers with higher chance to yield greater treasures.

I also see it all the time, people feeling like they need to pour money into a system with the hopes of unlocking what they want. Legitimately speaking, this is harnessing and deep-rooting hooks into those who can't moderate themselves well, and to those who begin to feel buyer's lament to stand by their devotion, dedication and progress. This system works wonders in the gaming industry, but in my opinion is the bane of it all, too.

However, all I can say is, if this game makes you happy and you want to play it, then do so. Just know that if you ever feel you need question what you're doing or seek validation, then it's time to stop and understand that the carrot in front of you can be grown in the wake of your own efforts elsewhere.

What's your point? If you never actually play the game and just throw money at it, it will cost a bit, just like every other game with microtransactions. It'll cost you far less than any F2P game (far far far less) and less than most other B2P games as well. Due to the way gold and drops work in this game, you're guaranteed to accelerate towards 100% 'completion' the more boxes you earn and or buy, there's very little chance involevd in that beyond how lucky or unlucky you are with the value of the dupes/drops you get, but we're not talking 1:256 level drops herre, we're talking pretty common for the highest tier of drop compared to most games. There's no 'pouring money in the hopes to get what you want' unless spending 20 bucks is putting yourself out onto the street. This system is extremely lenient with how much you have to spend to earn baseline levels of gold due to the way it works. While technically there is always a 'chance' you could get the worst boxes possible, there is NO chance that you don't earn gold over time. literally impossible.

 

[LiQuid!]

I feel like the skins are mostly shit anyway, there's about 3 or 4 I'd actually like to have. The main problem is these boxes having duplicates, that is pretty scummy when people are spending real money on these things.

I remember when I played Marvel Heroes about 2 years ago. They were running a "Buy 1, Get 1 Free" deal on heroes. What they didn't tell you was that the B1G1 deal was on a voucher to redeem a "random" hero, so I got 2 of the vouchers and when I used them I got the same hero twice. The devs didn't see a problem with this, but it was the only $5 I ever gave them and I'm pissed they never gave me a refund. After raising a stink with their customer service, the very next day when I logged on I saw that they changed the wording on their promotion to something like "Buy one hero voucher get a 2nd hero voucher free" or something along those lines. THAT is some scummy fucking bullshit. The heroes in that game ARE the actual gameplay.

Conversely, after opening around 75 boxes total in Overwatch I have actually started to welcome the dupes, because I NEED that damn money. They need to add a way to directly purchase the in game currency so I can give them even more money, or add it as a reward for something in game and not just a random thing to obtain.

 

[Pooya]

If only we lived in 2007 right now, these TF2 comparisons would have made sense. Valve isn't going to do another Orange Box ever again.

A system like Overwatch has, is the best compromise for players and developers. Ongoing content isn't going to fund itself and you don't have to pay for anything.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Are you serious? TF2 didn't have CLOOOSE to the amount of content at launch as overwatch, yeah it came with the orange box so it's hard to compare the two in terms of value, but in terms of absolute "TF2 vs Overwatch" it's not even remotely there. It's a bit disingenuous to pretend "Territorial control" is a mode too when it only had Hydro and everyone fucking hated Hydro (hence why they didn't bother with more maps in that mode EVER).

You say the current system wasn't in until F2P, but the current system has existed since 2010, only the crates were added with the actual money part, the shitty drop system has been there that long, and the prior (worse) drop system was there for almost the entire life of the game, since the sniper/spy update.

Again, in Overwatch you get 4 cosmetics every hour-hour and fifteen minutes. In TF2 even before microtransactions you got a NONCOSMETIC drop 25% of the time every 25 minutes (Hard to explain, google it though if you forget, the system was fucking stupid), and you had a 1/28 chance to get a hat every like 4 and a half hours or some bullshit. You literally could go HUNDREDS of hours of playtime and not get a single god damn hat. Pretty fucking cool setup guys. No really. I had probably 500 hours in TF2 between that update and them putting in the new drop/metal/etc system, and I had 2 hats. How you can even possibly look at that and say "Yeah, that was dope, Overwatch is a scam" is beyond me.

Why would we not count Territorial Control? 2Fort was the only CTF map at launch, but we don't act like TF2 doesn't have it as a mode.

A year ago, I spent $50 on TF2. I bought literally every hat and weapon skin I wanted, for every class. In Overwatch, you have no choice but to gamble for skins if you want to avoid the RNG grind; $50 (really $110) will get you a ton of low-tier poses and voice lines, maybe a "legendary" skin for a character you don't play, and maaaaaybe enough game credit to buy a single skin you actually want. One of these is encouraging you to spend more money than the other.

 

[JustSomeone]

Good thing I don't need crap like skins and sprays to enjoy a good game.

 

[RevenWolf]

Why would we not count Territorial Control? 2Fort was the only CTF map at launch, but we don't act like TF2 doesn't have it as a mode.

A year ago, I spent $50 on TF2. I bought literally every hat and weapon skin I wanted, for every class. In Overwatch, you have no choice but to gamble for skins if you want to avoid the RNG grind; $50 (really $110) will get you a ton of low-tier poses and voice lines, maybe a "legendary" skin for a character you don't play, and maaaaaybe enough game credit to buy a single skin you actually want. One of these is encouraging you to spend more money than the other.

Just the fact that TF2 has weapons that can affect gameplay puts it way beyond anything that Overwatch offers in terms of encouraging to spend more money.

At least all Overwatch Unlocks are completely cosmetic in nature.

As a second note, I imagine the reason he proposed that mode should be discounted is that in a content argument, quality/popularity of the content is pretty important in a multiplayer game, and it's not exactly a feature if no one is playing a specific mode.

I personally don't remember how unpopular that specific map/mode was so I can't argue the validity of that specific claim, but I do agree that a mode that is essentially dead in a multiplayer game from the start shouldn't really count towards the offering's content since you literally can't play it.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

One of these is encouraging you to spend more money than the other.

Would that be TF2 with gameplay affecting items?

I feel zero need or desire to spend money. I already have enough credits to buy a legendary skin, already got 3-4 regularly, already bought several skins for other characters, as if I needed to anyway because the original skins look great as well.

 

[ffvorax]

They are just doing what marketing is asking... if it monetize, why not?
If customer stop buying this kind of transactions, they will change it.

It's like all these pay MMORPG that become free after a year or so... if the product is not worth the money, the people don't pay for it.

Anyway if the game is fun, textlines and colors and all that things are just a plus... anyway yes, it was better before when they were free, I can agree with that... I never buyed these kind of DLC and I will never do.

I just believe that we, gamers, are who decide how the market will change.

 

[Magwik]

They are just doing what marketing is asking... if it monetize, why not?
If customer stop buying this kind of transactions, they will change it.

It's like all these pay MMORPG that become free after a year or so... if the product is not worth the money, the people don't pay for it.

Anyway if the game is fun, textlines and colors and all that things are just a plus... anyway yes, it was better before when they were free, I can agree with that... I never buyed these kind of DLC and I will never do.

I just believe that we, gamers, are who decide how the market will change.

Good thing they still are free then

 

[TheYanger]

Why would we not count Territorial Control? 2Fort was the only CTF map at launch, but we don't act like TF2 doesn't have it as a mode.

A year ago, I spent $50 on TF2. I bought literally every hat and weapon skin I wanted, for every class. In Overwatch, you have no choice but to gamble for skins if you want to avoid the RNG grind; $50 (really $110) will get you a ton of low-tier poses and voice lines, maybe a "legendary" skin for a character you don't play, and maaaaaybe enough game credit to buy a single skin you actually want. One of these is encouraging you to spend more money than the other.

Oh, ok, so the one that SHOWERS you in crates that you literally cannot open without a 2.50 microtransaction (or trading someone for keys, same thing since you have to give something valuable enough to get them) isn't encouraging you to spend money?
The one where all of the most desireable items ONLY exist through microtransactions with crates and keys isn't encouraging you to spend money?

I like how you keep trying to undermine OW's scheme by acting as though it's a severe challenge to get a skin you want, when you have very good odds of having one within your first 30-40 levels without spending a dime (and if you don't, you've probably got several others, also as you level more you're increasingly likely to get coins to just buy everything you desire).

You spent 50 bucks and bought a bunch of hats on the marketplace? Grats, now how possible is it to get that shit without spending a dime? oh it's basically not? yeah that's what I was thinking too.

The 'badness' of the microtransaction has little to do with what it costs to get what you want, which is still lower in Overwatch for true 'prestige' items since there aren't any 1 in 256 type bullshit drops with fancy particle effects to try and sucker people into buying keys, they don't litter your screen with crates and go 'hey, you ALREADY OWN THIS ITEM, but to open it you gotta spend some money bro, it's cheap really' (the actual scummiest way to goad people into spending money on random chance btw). The badness of the microtransactions in games revolve around your ability to get those items without spending a cent. In your average F2P game the amount of time required to get an item you want tends to reach into the stratosphere, and TF2 is no different. If you want a specific hat from purely in game drops, you're spending hundreds upon hundreds of hours playing just to craft fucking metal and scrap and tokens and everything else to have a good chance at getting what you want with crafting. With OW if you invested a couple hundred hours without spending a cent there is 0 chance for you not to have earned at least 3-4,000 gold on top of whatever random drops you got. With about 200 hours in the closed beta after they added loot boxes, I had at least one legendary skin for every hero, or damn close to it, and more than one for several. Back to F2P game trash like TF2, you've got your base level unlocks that you have to grind for, which are always gameplay affecting, and in most games are huge grinds (phone games for example), to encourage you to spend money. Once you've gotten all of that a lot of these games rely on cosmetics that you simply cannot ever get without spending money. League of Legends skins aren't available for IP. TF2 strange hats aren't going to just drop for you with your random drop. Overwatch doesn't have any of that shit gated. Literally the only skins you can't just reasonably get for free playing the game are the origin edition ones. There is no other item available that you can't just obtain flat out playing the game a totally fine amount of time.

 

[HDNA]

call of duty had this since advanced warfare, battlefield had this since 3 and that was not for cosmetic stuff, HotS heroes are not free, hearthstone cards have the same thing and they're not cosmetics

these things are good for people who want to buy 100 boxes and then open them on stream and then upload the vod to youtube to get some $ from views, besides, if i bought 500 boxes while im level 2 and you were level 100 with 99 boxes that doesn't mean i will play better than you, it's just mean that i will look cooler

 

[Wok]

The 'badness' of the microtransaction has little to do with what it costs to get what you want

Exactly.

Overwatch doesn't have any of that shit gated. Literally the only skins you can't just reasonably get for free playing the game are the origin edition ones. There is no other item available that you can't just obtain flat out playing the game a totally fine amount of time.

I like how the start of your paragraph is "we don't care about the cost, this is not the problem with microtransactions", and the end of your same paragraph is "in overwatch, everything is free, unlike trash game like TF2 and LoL".

My problem with Overwatch is also present in TF2, and nowadays in Dota2 (it was not at the beginning): it is chest-unlocking based gambling to get items. If the business model was healthier, every item could be directly bought for a fixed amount of money. However, one does not get people to spend absurd amount of money with cheap luck-based addictive gambling mini-games.

 

[RevenWolf]

Exactly.



I like how the start of your paragraph is "we don't care about the cost, this is not the problem with microtransactions", and the end of your same paragraph is "in overwatch, everything is free, unlike trash game like TF2 and LoL".

My problem with Overwatch is also present in TF2, and nowadays in Dota2 (it was not at the beginning): it is chest-unlocking based gambling to get items. If the business model was healthier, every item could be directly bought for a fixed amount of money. However, one does not get people to spend absurd amount of money with cheap luck-based addictive gambling mini-games.

But the thing is, Overwatch gives you the chance to get the stuff you want for free, while the same can't really be said for Tf2.

And with the way it's designed, initially it might be a bit slow to get what you want, but as you level, you start getting dupes very frequently, and eventually you're earning currency fast enough to get whatever you want.

And because of the way it's designed that rate will always be getting faster until you unlock everything.

 

[Saty]

God damn man, this is seriously the dumbest fucking complaint ever. People have pointed out to you multiple times now just what the one liners are for each character and how they literally only amount to the noises fucking Bastion makes. There is nothing significant about any of them, not a single one amounts to anything that gives any of the characters more personality. You automatically get the only voiced dialogue that "matters", the rest is just spam that you use in the pre game area.

Again, why are you pretending like Bastion is the only character in the game and that others don't have actually sentences that they speak?
Of course more sentences means more personality, more variety and more fun. It always was a high-point in MP shooters updates when they added new speech.

Anyhow, you didn't answer my question. How far would you go in accepting locked content that doesn't impact gameplay? Will you be OK with a soundtrack of game being locked and that you need to arbitrary unlock track by track? Will you be OK with unlocking voice acting in RPGs per character? I mean, that doesn't impact gameplay. You can read the subtitles. Do you not agree that there are many elements in a video game that don't impact gameplay but that can worsen or elevate the experience and the quality of the title?

It hasn't been unprecedented for over half a decade now, complaining about it at this point literally only amounts to yelling at the clouds. There was no way you were getting an option with this game (or even any other MP game) where you get all content for free after paying for the game, it's time to come to terms with how things are now. It was either get minor MTs for boxes and possibly currency in the future, or have them charge for major content patches, splitting the community and being sure that no one gives a fuck about the game in a year, other than those who bought all the latest content. If you can't see what we got in the end as the best possible solution we were going to get, then I honestly don't know what to say.

I don't want all the content, just what i perceive to be valuable for my time with the game. They didn't need to lock speech content to be making bank on cosmetics. The best solution would also at least include the ability to directly purchase what you want.

Yea but they aren't pushing the MTS in anyway. Never once did it tell me of the option to buy crates with real money, never got the stereo typical "You are out of crates to open would you like to buy some?" pop up. On the ps4 there is a little prompt in the bottom corner of the open loot crate screen that just says Playstation Store.

Aside from that if you never noticed it you wouldn't know that the game had MTS unless you stumbled across it from an outside source like I did with this thread. I don't care how you feel about the unlock system as a whole with its RNG and making impatient people want to buy crates but they aren't pushing the MTS.

Sure, it's not like they twist your arm or bombard you with notification to buy boxes. But the intention here is clear. You can't buy what you want. You don't have any control over what to get. Some will resort to buying multiple boxes until they get what they want. This 'resort' is planned by Blizzard, it's the only option. You can't buy directly because Blizzard will get more money from people buying multiple boxes than if you only made a single purchase for the item you desire. You can't even purchase the in-game currency. The system is designed to entice players to buy boxes of random unlocks.

 

[LiQuid!]

slay

Pls yanger don't hurt em

 

[Gravy Boat]

I want to pay for my content, one and done. I'd gladly pay for heroes and maps if it means we wouldn't have to deal with the hot mess that is the loot crate distribution system.

And making people pay for them isn't some ominous boogeyman that people make it out to be. The userbase is large enough to sustain itself even if split.

But the system we have now means I get the maps and characters for free since I won't be buying any loot crates. I much prefer this system.

 

[shintoki]

But the system we have now means I get the maps and characters for free since I won't be buying any loot crates. I much prefer this system.

Why not offer both?

Let people buy them on the side or unlock them.

 

[Interfectum]

Why not offer both?

Let people buy them on the side or unlock them.

So what should Blizzard charge for a legendary skin to maintain it's "legendary" status? $10? $20? $30? In a $60 game... how many threads you think we'd have on GAF from that?

What happens if the guy that bought the legendary skin gets a loot box with the exact skin in it soon after?

What you are basically asking for is for Blizzard to create skins that no one can get unless they purchase with real money (ala Heroes of the Storm). I'll take the loot boxes.

 

[Gravy Boat]

Why not offer both?

Let people buy them on the side or unlock them.

I don't understand. How could you have a system where people can pay for new maps/characters while others can earn them for free and keep it balanced enough to be fair, yet enticing enough to pay for?

Always amusing seeing long examples of how you're "guaranteed" to get Skin X based on a faulty understanding of probability and figures people pulled out of their arse.

Someone on reddit did some pretty intensive number crunching in Hearthstone and worked out that you're guaranteed a legendary every 40 packs. You can get them more often, but if you open 39 packs and don't get one, your next pack is guaranteed to have one. It's not unreasonable to assume there's a similar system in place in Overwatch.

Edit: Maybe it wasn't 40, but there's almost certainly a point where you are guaranteed one.

 

[TaterTots]

People seem to forget how little content TF2 had at launch for a price. I don't remember that much backlash for it.

 

[Warnen]

Why not offer both?

Let people buy them on the side or unlock them.

That would be the better system, but this way the people that would buy them end up spend way way way way more then they would normally.




Just because some people don't buy anything doesn't mean the system is good.

 

[Hasney]

People seem to forget how little content TF2 had at launch for a price. I don't remember that much backlash for it.

For $20, or $50 as part of the Orange Box with HL2 and both episodic episodes and Portal as well.

 

[Pellegri Testament]

Again, why are you pretending like Bastion is the only character in the game and that others don't have actually sentences that they speak?
Of course more sentences means more personality, more variety and more fun. It always was a high-point in MP shooters updates when they added new speech.

Have you actually looked at the lines that everyone else has? I didn't say that everyone makes robot noises, I said that their one liners amount to said robot noises on a scale of how important they are for each character. Seriously, listen to the damn lines before trying to act like they are the most important thing in the world. Better yet, play even a handful of maps to see just how insignificant the hill is that you are dying on, or watch someone else play since you're so against buying the game because of this worthless shit.

 

[Gravy Boat]

That would be the better system, but this way the people that would buy them end up spend way way way way more then they would normally.




Just because some people don't buy anything doesn't mean the system is good.

I think it's great, I'm getting free DLC. Not my problem if people want to overspend on cosmetics. That's their perogitive.

Have you actually looked at the lines that everyone else has? I didn't say that everyone makes robot noises, I said that their one liners amount to said robot noises on a scale of how important they are for each character. Seriously, listen to the damn lines before trying to act like they are the most important thing in the world. Better yet, play even a handful of maps to see just how insignificant the hill is that you are dying on, or watch someone else play since you're so against buying the game because of this worthless shit.

You must be joking if you don't think being able to have Hanzo go 'Hmmm' on command is a vital piece of character building that fully fleshes out his character. The last sentence in the post you quoted makes me think he's trolling though.

 

[borghe]

That would be the better system, but this way the people that would buy them end up spend way way way way more then they would normally.




Just because some people don't buy anything doesn't mean the system is good.

The way this game, the gameplay that is, is setup, that would harm the game. Random queuing for any map or game mode, character swapping mid-game for any other character. Sticking gameplay behind paywalls means virtually every millimeter of that dynamic is changed. I can't believe that even comes up in this thread as often as it does. It would change the fundamental setup of the game.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

I think the main issue is charging microtransactions for a full priced game. I really liked the beta, I totally intend to buy it later (cheaper), but I think that kind sucks.

I think a bigger issue is the exploitative nature of some forms of microtransactions even in F2P games. As someone who has family members who are uncontrollably spending money on F2P microtransactions, I think it's very similar to gambling.


Regarding overwatch, if you can get doubles and you're spending real money then that is bullshit

 

[TheYanger]

Exactly.



I like how the start of your paragraph is "we don't care about the cost, this is not the problem with microtransactions", and the end of your same paragraph is "in overwatch, everything is free, unlike trash game like TF2 and LoL".

My problem with Overwatch is also present in TF2, and nowadays in Dota2 (it was not at the beginning): it is chest-unlocking based gambling to get items. If the business model was healthier, every item could be directly bought for a fixed amount of money. However, one does not get people to spend absurd amount of money with cheap luck-based addictive gambling mini-games.

Overwatch is literally nothing like TF2/Dota2, it isn't 'chest unlocking' - you don't get locked chests that you have to spend money to open. You just get random loot and you can get it at an accelerated rate by spending money if you choose. It's also not got bullshit low droprates just to prey on the stupid, it has reasonable drop rates with a guarantee mechanism built into the system, so that you WILL get what you want. The only way to get what I want in TF2 or Dota 2 is to not open chests at all, but to head to the steam marketplace and drop SHITLOADS of money per item.

That would be the better system, but this way the people that would buy them end up spend way way way way more then they would normally.




Just because some people don't buy anything doesn't mean the system is good.

Quoting dumb posts doesn't make them true. you literally cannot offer 'both' because that doesn't make any sense. You can't charge for heroes, but also give them away free, and also charge for skins, but also give them all away for free. It's important for everyone to have all heroes and maps, so blizz made the correct choice to make money some other way, and they chose a way that literally does not offer anything but a time savings with no attached player power. There is no better form of microtransaction out there.

I think a bigger issue is the exploitative nature of some forms of microtransactions even in F2P games. As someone who has family members who are uncontrollably spending money on F2P microtransactions, I think it's very similar to gambling.


Regarding overwatch, if you can get doubles and you're spending real money then that is bullshit

So you don't understand how it works then. Doubles give you gold, gold let you focus your excess resources on exactly the items you want. Ergo, doubles are the reason that over time you earn more and more gold and thus can absolutely 100% guarantee that you'll get everything. Yes, they could take duplicates out, but then gold acquisition would slow down significantly, and that would actually make it MORE rng to get a specific item. This way you can reasonably assure yourself a steady influx of gold and buy that 1000 gold skin with extreme ease. Without dupes you'd be subject to RNG of getting gold as the drop instead.

 

[Warnen]

I think it's great, I'm getting free DLC. Not my problem if people want to overspend on cosmetics. That's their perogitive

The well it's not me so it's ok argument is nuts. I don't drink so alcohol must not be bad for anyone

The way this game, the gameplay that is, is setup, that would harm the game. Random queuing for any map or game mode, character swapping mid-game for any other character. Sticking gameplay behind paywalls means virtually every millimeter of that dynamic is changed. I can't believe that even comes up in this thread as often as it does. It would change the fundamental setup of the game.

I have no issue for they charging for extras. I'm not advocating they make a season pass and parse out the game. I'm saying the system is bad because it designed to take as much money as possible from the ones that would buy into it.

 

[TheYanger]

The well it's not me so it's ok argument is nuts. I don't drink so alcohol must not be bad for anyone






I have no issue for they charging for extras. I'm not advocating they make a season pass and parse out the game. I'm saying the system is bad because it designed to take as much money as possible from the ones that would buy into it.

Except it isn't. If it were there would be all kinds of scumlord shit tied into it, stuff like orange versions of the skins with particle effects that you can ONLY get through purchased boxes. Stuff like cosmetics that you randomly acquire ONLY through spending money. Maybe some sick weapon skins that make your knife purple and gold that has a 1:1000 chance of dropping from each real money crate you buy?

oh wait, that's Valve my bad.

 

[Nokagi]

Well I intend to play this game for awhile so I'm pretty sure I'll end up unlocking nearly everything for free. That is until they release exclusive $9.99 skins later.(You know it's coming)