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[cr_blah_blah]

gaf is so overly defensive about OW, it's getting toxic.

And I adored the beta.

I'd imagine the complainers having the stupidest fucking complaints more of the issue than this perceived generic "toxicity".

Though I guess Blizzard could theoretically be blamed for widening the scope of of their audience to include those people.

 

[~Cross~]

This thread is toxic. A number of you have added nothing to the discussion, yet chosen to berate the OP. The level of posting in this thread represents a new low for neogaf (of the threads that I have seen) and as members of this community, many of you should be embarrassed.

I sit here on these boards, to discuss video games and the video game industry at a relatively high level in comparison to other boards, and the whether the OP does or doesn't have a strong argument does not justify the outright disrespectful posts that have featured here.

Cant fault the people berating the OP. You make an O-Forum quality OP, you get O-Forums quality replies.

 

[Moff]

If you think they arent gonna add dailys then I dont know what to say ^_^

have they communicated something in that direction? that would be fantastic, I hope with currency as rewards. that would pretty much make me change my mind.

 

[cHinzo]

Yeah loot box speech lines are a waste of rewards.

 

[MMaRsu]

Because carrot on a stick encouragement has been one of the largest plagues of gaming mentalities the industry has ever seen.

We literally played games for decades without any direct feedback loop of "Do thing, get reward. HEY LOOK ANOTHER REWARD YOU CAN GET".

The reward itself was winning. Hell for some people the reward itself was playing the game. It's not that no one understands carrot on a stick. It's that we all reconize that it's a really shitty and ultimately self defeating method of retaining players and the fact that you happily admit to it as if it's a positive is kind of disheartening.

I played Starcraft for 8+ years without a single "reward", and at no point (until the end) did my motivation ever drop because I didn't have some sort of "carrot on a stick". The idea that games need one now is just sad.

This. So much this!

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Isn't all gameplay related content going to be free in this game? If that is true who cares if they monetize cosmetics?

 

[azyless]

Like, I get being against all type of microtransactions, and good for you if you don't want to support games that do it.
But claiming locked (let's pretend they are) taunt lines is a "new low" when 60€ games have locked actual gameplay (be it maps, modes, characters, weapons, etc.) behind paywalls for years, is oblivious at best.

*Gets voice lines and checks them out*

Hanzo: "Hmmmm..."
Pharah: "Sorry, but I need to jet."
Soldier 76: "I'm an army of one."

...Yup, the voice lines definitely add a lot to the characters and I feel like I understand them so much better now. You are totally right OP.

But it's Writing™ !

 

[Zen_Arcade]

This thread is toxic. A number of you have added nothing to the discussion, yet chosen to berate the OP. The level of posting in this thread represents a new low for neogaf (of the threads that I have seen) and as members of this community, many of you should be embarrassed.

I sit here on these boards, to discuss video games and the video game industry at a relatively high level in comparison to other boards, and the whether the OP does or doesn't have a strong argument does not justify the outright disrespectful posts that have featured here. I've quoted some samples below.

Nah, threads like this deserve to be shit on. The OP is completely hyperbolic and maybe people will stop making dumb hyperbolic threads if they see other people getting shit on for doing it.

This is like the third Overwatch thread this week that was started just to make mountains out of molehills.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

A number of you have added nothing to the discussion, yet chosen to berate the OP.

So you just ignored my other posts? like the CS:GO one which is a good example?

Also why don't you post my full post where i said everything can be unlocked for free?


Nice contribution to this thread dude.

 

[Sane_Man]

This thread is amazing. Anyone who's seen Saty's ridiculous nitpicking in TV show threads should not be surprised.

Overwatch is a rare game that gets microtransactions right.

 

[-MD-]

Because carrot on a stick encouragement has been one of the largest plagues of gaming mentalities the industry has ever seen.

We literally played games for decades without any direct feedback loop of "Do thing, get reward. HEY LOOK ANOTHER REWARD YOU CAN GET".

The reward itself was winning. Hell for some people the reward itself was playing the game. It's not that no one understands carrot on a stick. It's that we all reconize that it's a really shitty and ultimately self defeating method of retaining players and the fact that you happily admit to it as if it's a positive is kind of disheartening.

I played Starcraft for 8+ years without a single "reward", and at no point (until the end) did my motivation ever drop because I didn't have some sort of "carrot on a stick". The idea that games need one now is just sad.

Well said.

 

[Warnen]

The duplicate rate in these boxes are insane, I can understand them not wanting you to get all the skins quick but when there are 100s of other things and I still keep getting the same fucking handful of sprays something it broken.


The only reward for leveling and its borked, f this game.

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

This thread is toxic. A number of you have added nothing to the discussion, yet chosen to berate the OP. The level of posting in this thread represents a new low for neogaf (of the threads that I have seen) and as members of this community, many of you should be embarrassed.

I sit here on these boards, to discuss video games and the video game industry at a relatively high level in comparison to other boards, and the whether the OP does or doesn't have a strong argument does not justify the outright disrespectful posts that have featured here.

But it does. When the very thread title is a complete clickbait, bullshit claim (objectively), then ridicule is not wrong per se.

If the OP wanted to discuss the nature of loot box drops, which have this nefarious gambling side to them, sure. But this kind of title got answer that would have to be expected, really.

And there's some line you draw. I don't think I've ever thought of these forums as so artificially nice that no matter how stupid an OP is, no one is allowed to make fun of it.

 

[Moff]

Because carrot on a stick encouragement has been one of the largest plagues of gaming mentalities the industry has ever seen.

We literally played games for decades without any direct feedback loop of "Do thing, get reward. HEY LOOK ANOTHER REWARD YOU CAN GET".

The reward itself was winning. Hell for some people the reward itself was playing the game. It's not that no one understands carrot on a stick. It's that we all reconize that it's a really shitty and ultimately self defeating method of retaining players and the fact that you happily admit to it as if it's a positive is kind of disheartening.

I played Starcraft for 8+ years without a single "reward", and at no point (until the end) did my motivation ever drop because I didn't have some sort of "carrot on a stick". The idea that games need one now is just sad.

that's a whole different discussion and I completely understand. I played stracraft, diablo 2 and counter strike for years. but I guess WoW fucked me up, now I can't do anything long term without rewards. again, I stress long term.

 

[Warxard]

And y'all thought MY thread was dumb

 

[blacklotus]

Worse than, for example, offering microtransaction packages in Assassins Creed that cost so much money there is not even enough content to unlock with them? Unity does that. Hiding gameplay elements behind it? Black Ops 3 does that, Overwatch will not Blizzard announced.



No, and stop talking bullshit. Do you think anyone gave a fuck if "chop chop", "lets go in sneaky beaky like" and so on would be behind a paywall in CSGO? Also, the speechlines are randomized. Tracer can randomly say "cheers love, the cavalry is here" or you get the item and you can press a button and say it whenever you like.



Every character in Overwatch has way more lines than just one. So please, nobody imagine that. Because OP is bullshitting you. Yeah and sure, the game gets more immersive when i can spam "that is SIR for you!" with my Soldier 76. Mind you, i do spam it all the time, but only because i am one of those hateful online players who would shit on my own team in chat if i had no other option to vent. (sorry for that by the way guys).



So you CAN unlock those speeches? Nice. By the way, if you want speech, its fucking cheap. You can buy tons of it till level 20 if you want, i already got every line for every character i want. Only through ingame currency.

You know who hides actual weapons behind randomized drops? Call of Duty, with Advanced Warfare and Black Ops 3. You cannot get those weapons through missions, events or anything. Just luck. You cant even buy them through a micro transaction, just pure RNG luck. Is that maybe worse? (hint: it is!)

So OP calm your ass down. You are overreacting way too hard.

Nicely put.

 

[TheYanger]

Does the OP realize that the 'voice lines' you unlock are spammable nonsense lines akin to sprays? And that any actual VOICE LINE that you will ever hear in a game without forcibly using it, is always there?

What a ridiculous set of complaints on display here.

 

[PrivateRyan]

This thread is toxic. A number of you have added nothing to the discussion, yet chosen to berate the OP. The level of posting in this thread represents a new low for neogaf (of the threads that I have seen) and as members of this community, many of you should be embarrassed.

Overwatch marks a new low in Unlocking and Microstransaction systems.

The level of posting in this thread represents a new low for neogaf.

So many records being set today.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

This is a new low in complaint threads about microtransactions.

Overwatch is actually doing it right. Don't want to pay for it? Then don't.

 

[Gattsu25]

Played
Playerted 4 multiplayer? They didn't lock away Nathan Drake's lines, and there's a ton of stuff to unlock to keep you happy.

I haven't but do they lock away anything that impacts the gameplay like weapons or new characters?

Overwatch doesn't do that and only locks away 'cosmetics' such as character color palette swaps, taunts, and victory poses. Everything can be unlocked for free, too.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

Yeah, fuck those speeches! They'll ruin everyone's game. They're so OP. They need to be nerfed, or at least they should be for everyone regardles of the purchases!

Fuck them cosmetics! They ruin all good online shooters!

 

[zonezeus]

I'm not overly happy with microtransactions in a fully priced title, but I take locked skins and voice lines over locked maps and heroes every day.

 

[King Gilga]

So you just ignored my other posts? like the CS:GO one which is a good example?

Also why don't you post my full post where i said everything can be unlocked for free?


Nice contribution to this thread dude.

CS:GO isn't a good comparison.

In CS:GO you can trade or buy shit.

In OW you can't trade, buy, or get items by ranking up/challenges etc.

You just have rng boxes over boxes over boxes without being able to compensate for it like other games with rng boxes full of mostly fluff.

It's literally the worst of all 3 worlds, if you want a skin you can't trade for it, you can't buy it from the store or another person, you can't get it from the game itself.

I'd rather they just skins on a £££ store tbh like hots.

 

[Dunkley]

*Gets voice lines and checks them out*

Hanzo: "Hmmmm..."
Pharah: "Sorry, but I need to jet."
Soldier 76: "I'm an army of one."

...Yup, the voice lines definitely add a lot to the characters and I feel like I understand them so much better now. You are totally right OP.

Don't forget lore crucial voice lines such as "You gotta believe!"

 

[eloxx]

Should add a L into your name

My thoughts exactly

I think it's whining on a high level. Rather only cosmetic unlocks than OP pay-to-win upgrades.

 

[Stoze]

Because carrot on a stick encouragement has been one of the largest plagues of gaming mentalities the industry has ever seen.

We literally played games for decades without any direct feedback loop of "Do thing, get reward. HEY LOOK ANOTHER REWARD YOU CAN GET".

The reward itself was winning. Hell for some people the reward itself was playing the game. It's not that no one understands carrot on a stick. It's that we all reconize that it's a really shitty and ultimately self defeating method of retaining players and the fact that you happily admit to it as if it's a positive is kind of disheartening.

I played Starcraft for 8+ years without a single "reward", and at no point (until the end) did my motivation ever drop because I didn't have some sort of "carrot on a stick". The idea that games need one now is just sad.

This. I don't log on for daily quests or play on days with exp bonuses just because they have bonuses. Overwatch is kind of refreshing in this regard, and part of its minimal carrot on the stick, treadmill, breadcrumb, etc. reward design is what got me interested in the game.

The problem with debating this and the OP is that some people really care about things like that where I'd argue the majority or at least a big percentage of the player base doesn't. For me and others in here, having little reward outside of winning or having the micro transactions be cosmetics only, is preferable to the alternatives.

 

[Megalo]

It's like some people just want to be upset at something. "A new low" really ? In which parallel universe do you live ?

 

[Chronospherics]

There's very little to discuss when the OP begins with factually incorrect assumptions and crazy ass statements.

I personally think the OPs focus on the voice lines is a little silly as it's clear that these voice lines only exist in the loot pool in order to extend its lifespan, preventing players from unlocking the content players tend to find more appealing - skins and taunts etc.

However, who am I to say that the voice lines aren't important. I have played with a person in a video game who is partially blind before (he was quite bad at the game but it was fine), and for him the voice lines were a big part of the experience. Different people will have different preferences and as a whole I feel that Overwatch's MT is a step too far.

Let's take a moment to look at it as a whole.

1135 unlocks, even with no duplicates that means you're looking at 283 loot boxes to acquire all this content. After the initial boom of boxes at levels 1-25, you are stuck earning one every 22,000 EXP, which tends to average out as one every 90 minutes. Within that box, many items will be relatively arbitrary (though this depends on your preferences), possibly duplicates, or for characters that you do not want. You're looking at over 17 days game time to unlock everything before we even factor in the propensity for duplication.

Whether you do or do not care about cosmetic unlocks in your shooter isn't the end of the convesation as it is very clear that there are many that do (that's why these MT systems exist in the first place) and Overwatch is far behind the current standards of content offered in this regard. Overwatch offers the worst reward progression system in a £40 game that I have ever experienced, and for me, and I think a many others, the MT system represents a blemish on an otherwise brilliant experience.

I also do not understand these posts that suggest that by criticising this element of the game we are somehow suggesting the gameplay is unimportant. I personally was not aware that having good gameplay and featuring reward distribution system that didn't make a effort to manipulate the consumer into purchasing MT were mutually exclusive offerings.

 

[Snkfanatic]

This thread is toxic. A number of you have added nothing to the discussion, yet chosen to berate the OP. The level of posting in this thread represents a new low for neogaf (of the threads that I have seen) and as members of this community, many of you should be embarrassed.

I sit here on these boards, to discuss video games and the video game industry at a relatively high level in comparison to other boards, and the whether the OP does or doesn't have a strong argument does not justify the outright disrespectful posts that have featured here. I've quoted some samples below.

Please tell us what you added to the discussion with this other than to post a idiotic wall of shame that serves no other purpose than to tell us how you think people should post.

This is borderline backseat modding.

 

[truestatic]

CS:GO isn't a good comparison.

In CS:GO you can trade or buy shit.

In OW you can't trade, buy, or get items by ranking up/challenges etc.

You just have rng boxes over boxes over boxes without being able to compensate for it like other games with rng boxes.

It's literally the worst of all 3 worlds, if you want a skin you can't trade for it, you can't buy it from the store or another person, you can't get it from the game itself.

I'd rather they just skins on a £££ store tbh like hots.

Yes you can. Play 50ish hours, get 1000 gold, buy skin. Any skin you like is reliably attainable in game in a not inordinate amount of time. Can CS:GO say as much? Fuuuuck no.

It's fine.

 

[FunBoy]

The DOTA2 spring battle pass mocks you all in its blatant over the top undying greed.

 

[Nocturno999]

It's baffling how much defense and high scores this barebones multiplayer game is getting.

60 dollars game with microtransactions on top. How can you defend this?

 

[King Gilga]

Yes you can. Play 50ish hours, get 1000 gold, buy skin. Any skin you like is reliably attainable in game in a not inordinate amount of time. Can CS:GO say as much? Fuuuuck no.

It's fine.

what?

 

[Sn4ke_911]

CS:GO isn't a good comparison.

In CS:GO you can trade or buy shit.

In OW you can't trade, buy, or get items by ranking up/challenges etc.

You just have rng boxes over boxes over boxes without being able to compensate for it like other games with rng boxes.

It's literally the worst of all 3 worlds, if you want a skin you can't trade for it, you can't buy it from the store or another person, you can't get it from the game itself.

I'd rather they just skins on a £££ store tbh like hots.

Yes that is exactly what you get, you level up, you get a lootbox.

Yeah well you have to PLAY the game for once, you can't just go in a store and buy, meaning give Blizzard money for that skin... but they are the bad guys right? they don't even want your money for skins.

Oh no please, Heroes of the Storm has the worst system ever. Those skins are expensive as fuck.

I rather have it like in OW where i can get EVERYTHING for free if i play enough.

 

[Panda Rin]

I don't see this being a big deal at all. We're getting additional content for free partly because of these microtransactions. How is this any different from Rocket League's model?

 

[MMaRsu]

CS:GO isn't a good comparison.

In CS:GO you can trade or buy shit.

In OW you can't trade, buy, or get items by ranking up/challenges etc.

You just have rng boxes over boxes over boxes without being able to compensate for it like other games with rng boxes full of mostly fluff.

It's literally the worst of all 3 worlds, if you want a skin you can't trade for it, you can't buy it from the store or another person, you can't get it from the game itself.

I'd rather they just skins on a £££ store tbh like hots.

Please dont.. make me post this vid

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9RjDRLBWio

This is what counterstrike has turned into. A pool of shit ( looking at it from the outside as a cs player from before csgo )

These are also people who love the carrot on a stick


In Overwatch you can buy the skins you want with the gold you get from.boxes or dupes.

 

[truestatic]

It's baffling how much defense and high scores this barebones multiplayer game is getting.

60 dollars game with microtransactions on top. How can you defend this?

Because EVERYTHING involved in the microtransactions is reliably attainable in game, and NONE of it confers ANY sort of advantage.

This outrage culture is ridiculous.

what?

It's a really good multiplayer shooter. Are you going to be done with it this time next week? 50 hours is not a long time in the lifespan of overwatch.

 

[Valkyr1983]

So Uncharted 4 so be free to play? Ok man

If games release all the time at 60 bucks without micro transactions , then they all can

It's up to the publisher to calculate the budget, risk and ROI on a product and make it work.

I'm a firm believer that since 60 is the long standard going rate for a full retail game experience, paying that price should grant you any content the game has to offer

I also don't support paid map packs like call of duty, etc

Feel free to disagree with my opinion

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Lol who gives a shit, play the game and you'll unlock stuff eventually

 

[Zia]

I'm the nitpickiest, hyper-critical motherfucker I know yet between this and the "Overwatch needs single player" threads I'm completely baffled.

 

[brawly]

I am totally fine with speech unlockable system.

But the victory poses hidden behind a MT paywall is disgusting. I spent over $2000 on loot boxes, and still haven't gotten the Victory Pose #2 for Character #17.

 

[King Gilga]

Please dont.. make me post this vid

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9RjDRLBWio

This is what counterstrike has turned into. A pool of shit ( looking at it from the outside as a cs player from before csgo )


In Overwatch you can buy the skins you want with the gold you get from.boxes or dupes.

Don't get me wrong, I think all the tf2 hat/csgo loot box culture is dumb as shit, but they have more options.

But that video shows why I dislike lootboxes in general, just make it unlockable via actual ingame stuff.

 

[Jito]

Can't say I agree, I love the cosmetic content available.

 

[Chronospherics]

There's very little to discuss when the OP begins with factually incorrect assumptions and crazy ass statements.

I didn't know being 'wrong' was a license to be berated and laughed at.

Well done guys, this thread thereabout matches the quality of youtube comment feed.

 

[Interfectum]

CS:GO isn't a good comparison.

In CS:GO you can trade or buy shit.

In OW you can't trade, buy, or get items by ranking up/challenges etc.

You just have rng boxes over boxes over boxes without being able to compensate for it like other games with rng boxes full of mostly fluff.

It's literally the worst of all 3 worlds, if you want a skin you can't trade for it, you can't buy it from the store or another person, you can't get it from the game itself.

I'd rather they just skins on a £££ store tbh like hots.

Sure, then we'd have threads of people complaining why a legendary skin is $20 on a game that costs $60.

The loot crates are fine and you can pretty much get anything you want with enough playtime.

 

[TDLink]

There is literally no reason to ever spend money on loot boxes. You get one every time you level and you can level infinitely. Leveling and getting a loot box filled with random goodies is part of what keeps people playing the game. "Oh I'm almost level 20, I can play one more game to get there" type of stuff. Nothing from a loot box actually has an effect on game play. The "lines" aren't even something that add to your character's in game conversation. You can only set one at a time that you have to manually use every time you want to hear it...which means it only really gets used at the spawn before the game starts.

Can we stop getting outraged about every little thing? This is ridiculous.

 

[Saty]

Rocket League is locking it away behind DLCs, see the skins and flags and other stuff. It's not like Overwatch sell you important chat commands like "I need healing", or other stuff. It's just the same fancy stuff no one really needs - like flags, decals and cars in RL, which again are sold seperately as DLC too. And as a BTTF fan I'm more annoyed that RL is locking the BTTF stuff behind a paid DLC than that I have a drop chance for some random speech line in Overwatch.

Did you see me say anything about Overwatch's skins? On the contrary, i acknowledged locking\selling skins is an established and accepted method. User-initiated communication shouldn't be. When Rocket League drip-feeds access to chat commands, then you'll have a point.

So please, explain to us why Overwatch is the more heinous example of this.

The precedent Overwatch isn't in the shape of the treadmill but what unlocks are relegated to it. Yes, it's wonderful it doesn't have gameplay stuff there but it's bad it has user-initiated speech lines - a first as far as i can tell in full-priced games. It's speech that adds flair and tone and style. More of it increases my enjoyment of a game and its characters. So a full-priced game launching with speech content locked away IS a new low for me and sets a bad precedent of what might be allowed to be locked away in the future. It's freaking writing and voice acting and line delivery - you know, what makes a character a character (especially in online games) so the less i have to that because of lame unlocking strategy the less i enjoy the game.

They have zero impact on the gameplay. The fact that you can unlock everything by playing is good enough.

Perfect sentence that encapsulates the problem. An unlock system can negatively impact the design and enjoyment of the game while not having any gameplay-affecting rewards.
It shows how far we got when 'as long as sometime down the line you can unlock something' is intended to be a good argument in favor of treadmill-unlock systems.

 

[MMaRsu]

But that video shows why I dislike lootboxes in general, just make it unlockable via actual ingame stuff.

And thats exactly what OW does

And to SATY

There is ZERO VALUE to ANY of the unlocks. ZERO 0.

Why anyone would even buy loot boxes with real money is beyond me.

If they want to then thats their problem. It doesnt impact the game in a negative way AT ALL.

But maybe try playing the game before.making judgements.

 

[-MD-]

Please dont.. make me post this vid

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9RjDRLBWio

This is what counterstrike has turned into. A pool of shit ( looking at it from the outside as a cs player from before csgo )

These are also people who love the carrot on a stick


In Overwatch you can buy the skins you want with the gold you get from.boxes or dupes.

I've never gotten that excited for anything in my life.

Jumping out of your chair and cheering over a knife skin. Wow.

 

[Valkyr1983]

So would you prefer if they just charge for characters, maps and modes?

No? It should all be in for free if you buy the game full price