Pachter was right about PS4 graphics

animlboogy said:
Dude, we've been here before. I WANT the game to look like that. But we've done this song and dance so many times throughout the years. It's not trolling, although it is a a product of people kind of having their defenses up. Watch Dogs, I believe, Killzone, I believe. Deep Down... I dunno, man. Usually when it's too good to be true...

I'll keep repeating it: Killzone 2, never forget.
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Except if people looked at it with their eyes they would see there is nothing too good to be true in this. Some portion could be in game, like the gif above. Nothing scripted. It's edited yeah, but the guy running, the dragon reacting to the sword hit.. Is this so fucking incredible in those days and age ?

And the light and model are frigging' good ok. What do you expect from a console that powerfull when we have crazy models already on PS3.... I mean.. This demo runs real time, for sure, cause it has lots of problems here and there, and the quality of the assets is just the the logical next step above this gen.

Of course this kind of assets with smart devs and good artistic direction will look unbelievable, and wait to see naughty dog's showcase... Of course a devs that isn't trying to emulate the whole world is going to finds ways to handle the already gigantic ressources available smartly so it look even more amazing than it should be. Videogame has always been like that.

I was saying that here and there and every pc gamer was "hooo but we've seen all the next gen has to offer already blablablah... Witcher 2 this Crysis 3 that" Well FORTUNATLY devs can surprise us with this tech, or this generation would be dead already.
 
Fancy Corndog said:
ibjxCz37mFXzrX.gif

That is a target-ass render right there. There's no way.

However, give it a couple of years and it will happen.
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After playing the hell out of Dragon's Dogma, I'll say this is real all friendly like.
Of all the things the presentation said about PS4, it's THIS GAME that sold me.
 
Fuck. I don't ever wanna see orioto mad at me... so I'm just gonna take back everything I've said...

I'm a believer for the Capcom game :3!
 
bon said:
Today I learned that next gen games look a lot like current gen games with more crumbling stuff and scary faces.

mYKo2Yn.png
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Hehe you may be right. With each generation, we'll have graphics that are good like today's graphics because everything will be more-so. Like all the little details will be seen and will interact with everything. Like the upholstery in the chair I'm sitting it. ALL the details will be there. The fabric, the weave, and the elasticity will be doable. We'll have entire development departments for furniture upholstery working on the latest technologies of virtual yarn.

(EDIT: All those thing off-camera and out-of-focus will be immaculate.)
 
Kaijima said:
Killzone 4 was perfectly impressive.

. But generally speaking, nothing is going to "wow" people like the 360 and PS3 generation did -
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bullshit, ps3 and 360 weren't all that impressive to begin with, especially at the console launch. So many games, especially 360 games, looked like the last generation but in hd. So much so that if you didn't have an hdtv then the games really weren't all that impressive. Go play Halo 3 or resistance 1 on an standard def t.v, their not that groundbreaking. The fact that were seeing games this early before the launch and they already look substantially better than anything on ps3 or 360 speaks volumes to what we can expect in the future.
 
The wars are back! It always goes like;

Next Generation Reveal:
Next Gen visuals vs Previous Gen visuals vs PC Gamers
"Next gen looks the same as this gen!" "My 4 year old PC can do all of this!" "Consoles will be invalidated in 2 years!"

Next Generation Releases:
(PC gamers are lost in the battle)
Console vs Console vs Console
"Gameplay is most important" "Yea but graphics are better on this console!" "This console has better launch games!"
(lots of comparison videos)

Further Down the line:
(one console falls (is ignored))
Console vs Console
"All these exclusives are better than all those exclusives!"
(exclusive battles)

Near end of Generation:
(PC gamers return!)
Console vs PC
"These consoles are so old! PC games look so much better!" "Yea but look at all these console exclusives!"

End of Generation:
*brief harmony between all. All is well.*

Repeat
 
People seem to forget that the Xbox 360 didn't get a legitmately next generation graphical game until Fight Night Round 3 in 2006. After that it wasn't until Gears of War until it got another "next-gen" graphical game.

PS3 games all looked like shit upon release.
 
Someone more local than Pacther has been saying that for months, by the way.

As I mentioned in the other thread, if you saw that conference yesterday, and still think this generation is about graphics, you were just NOT getting the message at all. And also don't really understand the macro movements of the marketplace. I hope people stay excited, because gameplay is going in some really cool directions!
 
Pachter was actually partially right.

Killzone 4 looked stunning. But, where are all of those Witness gifs? How about a gif for MMs Move game?

Capcom, Unreal, etc showed what they are capable of but let's face it multi-plats like Destiny, Watch Dogs, and Diablo 3 will be on the PS3 and Xbox as well.
 
dragonfart28 said:
For once, I'd have to agree with the guy.

The visuals, while definitely pretty, did not feel like a substantial leap over PS3.

Am I the only one that feels like we're truly getting diminishing returns?
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I feel the same way but remember, these are launch and early titles. Look at all the titles being released for 360 and PS3 right now. Many of them look better than the next-gen titles we saw but that should change.
 
Yoshichan said:
Fuck. I don't ever wanna see orioto mad at me... so I'm just gonna take back everything I've said...

I'm a believer for the Capcom game :3!
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If i could have this power on everyone :p
You can be skeptical, but just try to avoid saying the demo is "cgi" ;)
It's just what it is and what they said it was, an in-engine demo meant to represent a incoming game...
 
Infinite_Daremo said:
The lack of physics or aim distortion on the weapon aim is really bugging me here. Biceps of steal!
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It would probably annoy you more if you couldn't aim where you wanted to shoot during that sequence.

I understand it looks weird, but I also understand why they might want to keep the aim fixed for player enjoyment.
 
Wickerbasket said:
It would probably annoy you more if you couldn't aim where you wanted to shoot during that sequence.

I understand it looks weird, but I also understand why they might want to keep the aim fixed for player enjoyment.
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i actually think it's more because of the early stage of the demo than design choice.
 
I'm a PC gamer, and Killzone fucking impressed the shit out of me. I really don't understand what you unimpressed people were expecting, because they went beyond mine.
 
John Harker said:
Someone more local than Pacther has been saying that for months, by the way.

As I mentioned in the other thread, if you saw that conference yesterday, and still think this generation is about graphics, you were just NOT getting the message at all. And also don't really understand the macro movements of the marketplace. I hope people stay excited, because gameplay is going in some really cool directions!
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John Harker has SPOKEN.
 
DEADEVIL said:
Pachter was actually partially right.

Killzone 4 looked stunning. But, where are all of those Witness gifs? How about a gif for MMs Move game?
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I guess you missed the part where Jonathan Blow (best known as the little guy who made a 2D sidescroller with strong emphasis on puzzles) awkwardly downplayed the importance of graphics on the same stage as all the gorgeous looking games.

Also, Media Molecule showed off no Move games. They showed a presentation of their creation, modeling and animation tools, in an intimate setting for this particular stage demo.

Capcom, Unreal, etc showed what they are capable of but let's face it multi-plats like Destiny, Watch Dogs, and Diablo 3 will be on the PS3 and Xbox as well.
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Face what exactly? That for the first couple years, some multiplats won't unleash the full potential of their respective studios? Welcome to every new generation.

Come back at me with, "Well, third party games still won't ever compete with first party." Again, that's to be expected with every generation. One should compare apples to apples- third party PS4 games to third party PS3 games, for example.
 
I get the feeling that if people tried to post the KZ4 and Deep Down PS4 gifs as gameplay footage before the conference they would have been laughed off the forum. The expectations for next gen have already been reset.
 
I think that there is a big leap, it's just not as immediately apparent as previous generations. Look at the reflections, the high res textures, the animations, the subtle shadowing, etc. From generation to generation the differences are going to become far more subtle until games eventually look like reality.
 
Log4Girlz said:
Yes, there is some diminishing returns going on. In previous generations you had such leaps in polygonal complexity which isn't as readily apparent in the next wave of machines. I mean, like during the PS1 days, a random cat in some game would be just a few boxes slapped together. On the PS2 you would have something actually resembling a feline. With the PS3 you are pretty much creating a realistic animal. With the PS4 you will not see a dramatic increase in detail per model, as returns on single models is diminishing, but instead getting a far larger number of detailed models, better IQ and lighting etc.

I know the Killzone gif is very impressive, but ask yourselves, how much better at the individual models? Not substantially so. But boy that lighting sure was pretty.
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This man is correct. I don't think anyone is suggesting there isn't a technical leap, it's just that last gen, everything looked as it should-smooth accurate modelling etc. Getting rid of jaggies, improving lighting, Iq and extra polys to already smooth model will not have that same wow factor as previous gens. Games will still look like a decent improvement though, just not monumentally better.
 
dragonfart28 said:
For once, I'd have to agree with the guy.

The visuals, while definitely pretty, did not feel like a substantial leap over PS3.

Am I the only one that feels like we're truly getting diminishing returns?
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There have been diminishing returns in every single console generation. It doesn't take a Nostradamus to predict that.

However, what MP said was,
the difference will be barely discernible.
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bare·ly
/ˈbe(ə)rlē/
Adverb
Only just; almost not

That would be an appropriate phrase for 360 vs PS3 vs Wii U, not the leap from KZ3 to KZ4. And just think about that--- we're comparing the latest and greatest of the current gen to the earliest graphical showcase of next gen, and the latter is still head and shoulders better looking. And we've only really seen this stuff in motion in Youtube form. I can't wait to see it on my actual TV screen. And the demo was just a very short section of the game, whereas GG tends to make their games better and better looking as the levels progress.

Just silly no matter how it's sliced, to suggest that Pachter was right.
 
Darknessbear said:
So, you'll judge a consoles next few years based on only a few games shown that arent even final yet? That's smart logic.
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The games are a representation of what to expect from the library. It's really nothing much different than what we've experienced already.

Which is fine for the traditional, average gamer.

That's why I might eventually get one, but not after a few price drops and extensive library.
 
zero shift said:
People seem to forget that the Xbox 360 didn't get a legitmately next generation graphical game until Fight Night Round 3 in 2006. After that it wasn't until Gears of War until it got another "next-gen" graphical game.

PS3 games all looked like shit upon release.
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I forget about Fight Night Round, this game will be glorious on the PS4.
 
Is animation something that would be effected by the general power bump or is this more a engine complexity and how they implement animation thing? I'd personally take a slight bump in VFX for a large bump in animation and physics.
 
man these games already massacre what was on PS3, the leap is gigantic. There is a text book list of effects the three main PS4 games that were shown were doing @ 1080p (Deep Down, which I still don't believe for a second will look like that on PS4 hardware, there's Killzone 4 and InFamous: Second Son), presumably, that no PS3 game could even sneeze at with anything over 5fps. And these are only first gen PS4 titles, the room to go up is fucking huge... as every gen ever in history has demonstrated.

To say nothing of Watch Dogs, which by itself dismantles every console open world game yet to date by a wide margin (and is a cross generational title, so it's obviously holding some of its punches to try to ensure there is even remote parity between versions)
 
I believe deep down will looks similar to what they've shown. The GPU in the PS4 is based on the GCN architecture which is an absolute beast at crunching numbers for lighting/physics/particles. We're getting a huge increase in triangle throughput and the right lighting/particle system can take a game from good to amazing in visual IQ.

The GPU is very strong in comparison to what was used on the ps360. I think we can get that level of IQ in a few years @ 30FPS probably not 1080p tho.
 
TheGreyHulk said:
I believe deep down will looks similar to what they've shown. The GPU in the PS4 is based on the GCN architecture which is an absolute beast at crunching numbers for lighting/physics/particles. We're getting a huge increase in triangle throughput and the right lighting/particle system can take a game from good to amazing in visual IQ.

The GPU is very strong in comparison to what was used on the ps360. I think we can get that level of IQ in a few years @ 30FPS probably not 1080p tho.
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God I hope so.

But I just...with that animation and fidelity...consistently across a game that is more than 2 hours long?

I just can't believe right now. My mind is not ready.
 
Amir0x said:
God I hope so.

But I just...with that animation and fidelity...consistently across a game that is more than 2 hours long?

I just can't believe right now. My mind is not ready.
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The animation is the part of that footage most likely to be BS... at least in actual gameplay. Everything else looks perfectly plausible.
 
Branduil said:
The animation is the part of that footage most likely to be BS... at least in actual gameplay. Everything else looks perfectly plausible.
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We'll see, I'm not convinced it can be possibly sustained on PS4 hardware. I have a PC capable of maxing out almost all modern PC games, and that shit looks pretty close to beyond anything I've seen before... including tech demos. Even dropping the animation, a game of that quality across any length of time would be genuinely insane.

The jump from PS3 to PS4 is already just gobsmackingly huge, but this is something else. It just seems wrong in many ways.
 
Visuals can't be improved indefinitely. Eventually you are going to hit a lull where they level out for a while until some large advancement. To be honest, there hasn't been that much of sharp increase in those areas for a while.
 
Amir0x said:
We'll see, I'm not convinced it can be possibly sustained on PS4 hardware. I have a PC capable of maxing out almost all modern PC games, and that shit looks pretty close to beyond anything I've seen before... including tech demos. Even dropping the animation, a game of that quality across any length of time would be genuinely insane.

The jump from PS3 to PS4 is already just gobsmackingly huge, but this is something else. It just seems wrong in many ways.
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The 1080p feed looks more believable because of all the shader aliasing and other artifacts.

But yes the problem is building an entire world with that detail and level of animation. It seems particularly unbelievable because the other games shown weren't as amazing animation-wise.
 
Krowley said:
If you have to have super-hi-res footage to tell the difference, then it's not a huge leap.

That's the definition of diminishing returns. Things may look substantially better, but you get less bang for your buck. You have to look closer, and closer, to tell the difference. Eventually you're counting nose hairs and nobody cares anymore.
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A small thread bump to honor this post; I get the impression there's a lot of people on GAF who don't understand the meaning of the term. I think you summed it up nicely.
 
Pachter also said the 360's graphics weren't significantly better than the og Xbox. I feel like most people on here have either never paid much attention to games when there's been a generational shift, or have selective memory. Even this forum's thread from the 360's reveal is nothing but people saying the games could be done on the PS2.
 
John Harker said:
As I mentioned in the other thread, if you saw that conference yesterday, and still think this generation is about graphics, you were just NOT getting the message at all. And also don't really understand the macro movements of the marketplace. I hope people stay excited, because gameplay is going in some really cool directions!
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The gameplay was by far the worst part of the presentation.
 
Margalis said:
The gameplay was by far the worst part of the presentation.
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Right so you missed the gpgpu physics presentation?

John Harker said:
Someone more local than Pacther has been saying that for months, by the way.

As I mentioned in the other thread, if you saw that conference yesterday, and still think this generation is about graphics, you were just NOT getting the message at all. And also don't really understand the macro movements of the marketplace. I hope people stay excited, because gameplay is going in some really cool directions!
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Harker <3
 
EloquentM said:
Right so you missed the gpgpu physics presentation?
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Care to explain what bold new gameplay we saw?

A new Killzone, a mascot platformer, a new Infamous? Pretty much everyone agrees that the games were the weakest part of the presentation. Go read the "rate the conference" thread. Everyone is high on the technology and low on the games shown.

Harker is saying that graphics are not the focus but new gameplay experiences are. Meanwhile everyone is spamming Killzone 4 gifs of on-rails sequences.
 
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