VanillaCakeIsBurning
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Persona 4: Arena |OT| Midnight's Just Around The Corner
- Thread starter cj_iwakura
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VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Sony is conspiring to prevent P4:A GAF's revival.
Adam Prime
hates soccer, is Mexican
Wow I could not get into this game at all. None of the characters really clicked with me whatsoever, and I just couldn't get a hang of what was supposed to be happening in battle. Yeah, maybe I'm just too dumb for this game. I finished everything in lesson mode, and I still had really no clue what I "should" be doing in battle.
Maybe I just stick to Capcom fighters....
Maybe I just stick to Capcom fighters....
I recommend King of Fighters XIII for you depending on your location.
Beating the snot out of the other player, gaining SP points to use supers/Persona supers to beat the snot out of the other player.
Compared to Capcom's
"Beating the snot of the other player, gaining super bar/meter/hyper bar to use hyper combos/hyper moves/super moves/ultra moves to beat the snot out of the other player."
?
It wasn't enough for P4A to die on XBL.
What characters have you preferred to experiment with?
I've been playing P4A with a friend online regularly and I've gotten quite good with Elizabeth. The things I enjoy about Elizabeth is that she is not very input intensive (which has been a historical barrier for me with most traditional fighting games), plenty of room for mindgames and improvisation, and heavy use of her persona to keep herself safe. My friend mains Kanji, so our matches tend to swing between me completely shutting him down from range, or him getting in and breaking me. However he has been branching out into new characters, Labrys and more recently Yu. So far Yu's proving to be a bit of an anti-Elizabeth, capable of getting in easier with his diagonal sword dive, and his Ziodyne super on wakeup puts an immediate stop to Thanatos mindgames.
While I working on countering his Yu, I'm wondering what other characters I should try to pick up. My second most played character is Teddy, and while I like his normals, I feel like I've hit a wall with progress with him, unless I start breaking out the flowcharts for what to do when he throws out X item. Other characters, like Naoto and Yukiko I've played with a bit, but don't quite get what their "thing" is. How their moveset is suppose to come together. Like, I "got" Elizabeth once I realized after you send Thanatos out with C, he can then do any C or D move, normal or special, from that spot while Elizabeth chills safely away from danger.
Any advice for new characters to pick up, or what simply their "thing" is?
While I working on countering his Yu, I'm wondering what other characters I should try to pick up. My second most played character is Teddy, and while I like his normals, I feel like I've hit a wall with progress with him, unless I start breaking out the flowcharts for what to do when he throws out X item. Other characters, like Naoto and Yukiko I've played with a bit, but don't quite get what their "thing" is. How their moveset is suppose to come together. Like, I "got" Elizabeth once I realized after you send Thanatos out with C, he can then do any C or D move, normal or special, from that spot while Elizabeth chills safely away from danger.
Any advice for new characters to pick up, or what simply their "thing" is?
Not being input intensive is probably referring to more casual levels of play, but I can't help but say that I think Liz might be one of the most input intensive characters in the game at higher levels of play where people know how to deal with Thanatos. This video's a good example of that.
Supermanisdead
Member
I'm mostly referring to the input window. For some characters it feels like you're inputting for something two moves ahead of what's actually on the screen or else you drop the combo. Elizabeth seems more "leisurely" in comparison due to how long your opponent is occupied by being frozen, juggled by fire, thrown by Thanatos, etc. It results in an easier learning curve, I've found. I'm at the point where I could pull off some of the combos early in the video, and I can "see" how the others are done with a bit a meter management (though anything involving the instadeath moves like Hanamon is just showing off)
Wow, I actually hadn't thought of that before in regards to how her moves have more lenient input windows for combos compared to other characters. Yeah, I can totally see that.
Can't recommend any character specifically, especially since I don't know your playstyle, but Shadow Labrys is pretty cool.
Hello, (crappy) Elizabeth main here!
My advice would be: why would you want to change character? ^^
You went from a match-up that was largely to your advantage (Liz destroys Kanji) to something that is slightly to your disadvantage, but there's nothing there she can't handle. Mitsuru's a far worse match-up for her, for example.
Yu is a very "linear" character: he's easy to pick-up, but doesn't have that many tools or options. Basically Yu wants to get in close, and then starts his high-low mix-up game, or his Persona cross-up sheananigans, and... that's about it.
My ideas about how to play him (at a modest-mediocre level ^^) are:
* At full-screen distance, you have the advantage. Maziodyne destroys his ball game, and at this distance you're quite safe to spam it. Just stay aware of his meter, though: if he has more than 50SP, you should be wary of your rythm, as Yu players usually enjoy trying to punish Maziodyne with their Zyodine super. This is not a good idea for them, though, as Maziodyne is really hard to react to, and has more than decent recovery; if you're smart about it, you can (and should) bait him into trying his super, and then punish him. EX Maziodyne is a good idea for a punish, as it puts him into Shock and lets you approach him on your own terms.
* At mid-distance, the match-up is more or less 50-50. Liz wants to stay outside of his poke distance, while maintaining her own 5B distance; Yu wants to get inside. For that, he basically only has two options: the sword dive, or the "electric train" -- the second one being highly unsafe for him. Do not let him "electric train" you to death, you should guard low in prevention as much as possible, and heavily punish him if he tries to push his luck... and if he chooses the sword dive, try to 2B counter him on reaction. On your side, you should try to ground him as much as possible, using 5B and Thanathos mix-ups. And, of course, as with nearly every character in this game, try to corner him: Liz is deadly once she gets her opponent in the corner. Also, do not be afraid of not pressing buttons and wait for your friend to make a mistake: it's always a good idea in a fighting game to not always press buttons while in the neutral game, but especially more so with Liz, as she's gaining SP even when nothing is happening. Oh, and Thanathos on your opponent's wake-up is usually not a good idea: you should better try to meaty them with a 5B, and mix it up with some 2A from time to time. Also, baiting their supers / FA on wake-up *IS* a mix-up in itself: if you see your friend has a tendency to do that, bait him and punish him!
* At close-range... well, you don't want to get to close-range and you already know that. ^^ The only exception being when using EX Maragydine while they're blocking, as you have the upper-hand of choosing your own mix-up while they are in block state. On a side note: EX Maragydine is godly. Use it a lot. Not only can it get you out of the corner easily, but it also reverses the positions, thus giving you the upper-hand. It it hits you get a nice free corner combo, and if the opponent guards it, he's carried into the corner while you can safely roll-out of it. Godly.
I don't know how much of this you already knew, and how much stupidities I'm telling here (haven't played in a while, and I'm not even really a good player to begin with), but that's how I see this match-up, and I usually don't have that much of a hard time against Yu players around my level. Against Kanji you only applied the (cruel) match-up, but now you need to get more strict and tricky with your mix-ups to stand a chance with Liz against any other character in the game. If you like playing her, don't be afraid to get destroyed from time to time, this is the normal consequence of playing a glass-cannon character; destroying them in return is the sweet feeling that makes me keep playing her. <3
Hello, (crappy) Elizabeth main here!
My advice would be: why would you want to change character? ^^
You went from a match-up that was largely to your advantage (Liz destroys Kanji) to something that is slightly to your disadvantage, but there's nothing there she can't handle. Mitsuru's a far worse match-up for her, for example.
Yu is a very "linear" character: he's easy to pick-up, but doesn't have that many tools or options. Basically Yu wants to get in close, and then starts his high-low mix-up game, or his Persona cross-up sheananigans, and... that's about it.
My ideas about how to play him (at a modest-mediocre level ^^) are:
* At full-screen distance, you have the advantage. Maziodyne destroys his ball game, and at this distance you're quite safe to spam it. Just stay aware of his meter, though: if he has more than 50SP, you should be wary of your rythm, as Yu players usually enjoy trying to punish Maziodyne with their Zyodine super. This is not a good idea for them, though, as Maziodyne is really hard to react to, and has more than decent recovery; if you're smart about it, you can (and should) bait him into trying his super, and then punish him. EX Maziodyne is a good idea for a punish, as it puts him into Shock and lets you approach him on your own terms.
* At mid-distance, the match-up is more or less 50-50. Liz wants to stay outside of his poke distance, while maintaining her own 5B distance; Yu wants to get inside. For that, he basically only has two options: the sword dive, or the "electric train" -- the second one being highly unsafe for him. Do not let him "electric train" you to death, you should guard low in prevention as much as possible, and heavily punish him if he tries to push his luck... and if he chooses the sword dive, try to 2B counter him on reaction. On your side, you should try to ground him as much as possible, using 5B and Thanathos mix-ups. And, of course, as with nearly every character in this game, try to corner him: Liz is deadly once she gets her opponent in the corner. Also, do not be afraid of not pressing buttons and wait for your friend to make a mistake: it's always a good idea in a fighting game to not always press buttons while in the neutral game, but especially more so with Liz, as she's gaining SP even when nothing is happening. Oh, and Thanathos on your opponent's wake-up is usually not a good idea: you should better try to meaty them with a 5B, and mix it up with some 2A from time to time. Also, baiting their supers / FA on wake-up *IS* a mix-up in itself: if you see your friend has a tendency to do that, bait him and punish him!
* At close-range... well, you don't want to get to close-range and you already know that. ^^ The only exception being when using EX Maragydine while they're blocking, as you have the upper-hand of choosing your own mix-up while they are in block state. On a side note: EX Maragydine is godly. Use it a lot. Not only can it get you out of the corner easily, but it also reverses the positions, thus giving you the upper-hand. It it hits you get a nice free corner combo, and if the opponent guards it, he's carried into the corner while you can safely roll-out of it. Godly.
I don't know how much of this you already knew, and how much stupidities I'm telling here (haven't played in a while, and I'm not even really a good player to begin with), but that's how I see this match-up, and I usually don't have that much of a hard time against Yu players around my level. Against Kanji you only applied the (cruel) match-up, but now you need to get more strict and tricky with your mix-ups to stand a chance with Liz against any other character in the game. If you like playing her, don't be afraid to get destroyed from time to time, this is the normal consequence of playing a glass-cannon character; destroying them in return is the sweet feeling that makes me keep playing her. <3
Yu pretty much has options for everything. Ranged game, high low mixup, frame traps, you name it. Akihiko better fits the description of someone that is amazing up close, but has very little tools or options outside of that range.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Sigh, I thought I could outwit the region lock by buying points for my US account since it's on GoD. Nope! Should have known better.
Hmm, yeah, true that: I got carried away by the fact that Liz can pretty much shut his ranged game down.
How does he do against Yukiko in this regard?
That's a question for RagingNight or Beats.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I just remembered there was a time when this thread was bumped on a consistent basis with fight requests.
How the times have changed.
BBCP, deliver us from this hell.
How the times have changed.
BBCP, deliver us from this hell.
A lot of what you're saying matches with what I've been experiencing so far, so it's nice to know I'm on the right path. I'll try to incorporate EX Maragydine in more, as it's often my most forgotten tool. I like the idea of using it to get out of corners.
To answer the question on why I would want to change my character: this is something I've wanted to do even before my buddy started using Yu. Mostly just to keep things interesting and not just be rolling with Liz all day, everyday. I'm still keeping her as my main, but a solid secondary would be fun.
I poked around a bit with Shadow Labrys a bit. So what's the main way to utilize her persona? I can see how it could be used to attack in conjunction with Shlabyrs, and maybe even help her link combos. But between its long start up times and how it goes below deck every time she's hit, or when she just repositions quickly, it's hard to pull off. Is the main function of the Persona's D move to guard her from projectiles, or for it to protect itself?
Well I haven't played the game or paid much attention to it lately, but I always found it a struggle to fight Yu with Yukiko. Standing Fans aren't reliable against him and Yu's normals will most likely stuff anything Yukiko does at close range. You have to completely outplay a good Yu player as Yukiko.
lol, yeah.
I'm playing Marvel a lot more now, but I like having "normal" 1 v 1 fighters to play as well so I'm kind of looking forward to BBCP. I never got into BB too much though, but from the match videos that Q keeps posting in the other thread it looks great.
Ragingnight
Member
haven't check this in awhile.
Yu beats yukiko either 6-4 or 5.5-4.5. The more I watch Jourdal and etc the more I want to say Yu beats her straight up 6-4.
You can't toss fans at midrange because he can slide under them and punish you hard if he has meter with OMC/OMB.
He can DPxxSuper out of your frame traps
He can DP out of reversal firewall super
Yukiko doesn't have good reversal out of Yu's Oki game
Yu normals generally beat yukiko. 5B is a really good tool.
The thing she does have going for her is her zoning, 5A and j. 5A. Everything she does has a higher risk/lower reward compared to Yu. Zoning does maybe 2k-3k damage. Yu guesses with random slide can do about 4k easily. Yukiko pretty much has to outplay Yu in almost all aspects in order to win.
The good thing is because he has some "derpy" options against yukiko, you can bait a lot of it out. Once you get Yu into the corner as yukiko you can do a bunch of setups where if he dp, the dp will only hit the persona and you get a free punish (unless you fall for the super cancel).
I still wished I play P4A more. Its the most fun fighter since 3s for me. Umvc3 has way too many gimmicks for me to take seriously and going from 3s to sf4 is really weird. I laugh at how stupid some of umvc3 design and how much you can get away by being as derpy as possible. Wolverine + assist is so braindead.
Yu beats yukiko either 6-4 or 5.5-4.5. The more I watch Jourdal and etc the more I want to say Yu beats her straight up 6-4.
You can't toss fans at midrange because he can slide under them and punish you hard if he has meter with OMC/OMB.
He can DPxxSuper out of your frame traps
He can DP out of reversal firewall super
Yukiko doesn't have good reversal out of Yu's Oki game
Yu normals generally beat yukiko. 5B is a really good tool.
The thing she does have going for her is her zoning, 5A and j. 5A. Everything she does has a higher risk/lower reward compared to Yu. Zoning does maybe 2k-3k damage. Yu guesses with random slide can do about 4k easily. Yukiko pretty much has to outplay Yu in almost all aspects in order to win.
The good thing is because he has some "derpy" options against yukiko, you can bait a lot of it out. Once you get Yu into the corner as yukiko you can do a bunch of setups where if he dp, the dp will only hit the persona and you get a free punish (unless you fall for the super cancel).
I still wished I play P4A more. Its the most fun fighter since 3s for me. Umvc3 has way too many gimmicks for me to take seriously and going from 3s to sf4 is really weird. I laugh at how stupid some of umvc3 design and how much you can get away by being as derpy as possible. Wolverine + assist is so braindead.
Played a good long set with a newcommer last night. Was winning a ton with Kanji so then I did randoms for a while. It's amazing how my head is now focused in thinking that Kanji's damage is just normal for everyone, and how much I freak out when I'm not doing 50-70 percent damage off a single combo with people like Akikiko or Teddie.
I'm so set in my ways at this point.
I'm so set in my ways at this point.
5D should be used very liberally. Asterius is probably the easiest Persona to break in the game and the D move makes him impervious to anything that will break him. Like you said, it can also be used to guard Shadow Labrys herself from projectiles such as Aigis' 2B and stuff like that. 5D can also be held to keep Asterius in place while Shadow Labrys moves around the stage, setting up potential traps for the opponent such as 2C off-screen.
Shadow Labrys is the character with the lowest combo rate in the game. So, basically, she's the least execution intensive character with the least amount of combos, so most of what she has depends on Asterius backing her up. Her challenge mode gives a good idea of what she can do.
She's the least played character online after Aigis for a reason, though: I guess multitasking with two characters might be difficult for some to grasp; she has the lowest health in the game after Elizabeth, next to Naoto; she has really weak damage output and other stuff. If she doesn't appeal to you immediately, it might not be worth the effort in maining her, but I really liked her from the start.
SloaneRisette
Member
Hey everyone! Just making some basic rounds in all the fighting game threads (at least for the fighting games I play), but just want to post here in case anyone wants to get any games in. I go by Smedwicks on PSN, and I play a really average Akihiko. I recently got my butt kicked at TRB the other week and since I'll probably be signing up for P4A at Evo this year, I want to try and get decent and hopefully not go 0-2. So if anyone ever wants to play, hit me up!
Ragingnight
Member
if you want yukiko practice send me a pm or something. I haven't played in a long time but I bet I can pick it up decently. I'm not that good, but i play off fundamentals.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I might be playing later on if anyone wants to do some rounds. I will post here if/when I am ready.
EDIT: Wasn't able to get on today, hoping for some time tomorrow.
EDIT: Wasn't able to get on today, hoping for some time tomorrow.
Played some P4A today after a relatively long hiatus (a week or so). Man, I forgot how fun this game is. Not a lot of people playing online, unfortunately, but there are still games to be found in Player Matches.
If anything, even if it doesn't mean much, I'm glad I've been in the top 10 Shadow Labrys players online worldwide for PSR/EXP Ranking. Kinda like a testament to my dedication with the game and the character, heh.
If anything, even if it doesn't mean much, I'm glad I've been in the top 10 Shadow Labrys players online worldwide for PSR/EXP Ranking. Kinda like a testament to my dedication with the game and the character, heh.
PSN for the worldwide rankings. I have the 360 copy too, though.
We should play sometime over the weekend then! Maybe later tonight?
Sure, I'd be up for some games.
Good luck with that.
You wanna play a few round later? Aki v Aki mirror matches are sick.
I haven't played in MONTHS. I'm rusty as hell.
same here, I just started playing yesterday after having not played since November. And Im still using a day 1 aki
Oh shit you're Flux? I've faced you a few times before as you're the only SSS ranked player I've ever had a 2+ bar connection with. I've never won
ggs seks. Aki is so fun.
I'm surprised my mashing Yukiko beat you. Proof Akihiko sucks in this game.
I'm also surprised you kept running right into my C attack which would work on your jumping dash.
I can't land Akihiko's jump dive at all anymore. It's really good if you time it right to jump attack and do that punch-bounce attack after because it'll generally catch people off guard if they aren't expecting it.
I'm also surprised you kept running right into my C attack which would work on your jumping dash.
I can't land Akihiko's jump dive at all anymore. It's really good if you time it right to jump attack and do that punch-bounce attack after because it'll generally catch people off guard if they aren't expecting it.
I'm surprised my mashing Yukiko beat you. Proof Akihiko sucks in this game.
I'm also surprised you kept running right into my C attack which would work on your jumping dash.
I can't land Akihiko's jump dive at all anymore. It's really good if you time it right to jump attack and do that punch-bounce attack after because it'll generally catch people off guard if they aren't expecting it.
That was the first time I ever faced a Yukiko as Aki and I can definitely see why it's his worst matchup in the game. Most characters have to be patient with Yukiko, but Aki is on a next level of patient.
Anyone else wanna play? Oh man Im getting that P4A bug again. someone help me.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I will if you're still on. Firing up the triple.
Yeah, Akihiko is an uphill battle and why I feel the game wasn't really designed with him in the first place. He's an interesting character but with his Persona mostly sucking he simply does not have the tools to stand toe-to-toe 98% of the cast (I'd say the 1% being Kanji, but Kanji can be extremely deadly if they get you).
cj_iwakura
Member
Oddly enough BBCS is still jumping, at least tonight.
Now I remember why I hate Labrys >_>
ggs vanilla
I'd really only apply that to Yukiko. The rest can be dealt with.
If you noticed when we had our match, it wasn't the fans that gave me problems. (except for the first round where I didn't know what to do at first, a hardy fuck you for that)
ggs vanilla
I'd really only apply that to Yukiko. The rest can be dealt with.
If you noticed when we had our match, it wasn't the fans that gave me problems. (except for the first round where I didn't know what to do at first, a hardy fuck you for that
)You make it sound like Akihiko doesn't hit like a truck and like he doesn't have 4.8k meterless combos.
Yup, a good Aki can easily kill you in 2 combos if you're not careful.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Now I remember why I hate Labrys >_>
ggs vanilla
I'd really only apply that to Yukiko. The rest can be dealt with.
If you noticed when we had our match, it wasn't the fans that gave me problems. (except for the first round where I didn't know what to do at first, a hardy fuck you for that
Good matches.
I was rusty at the start but I remembered some things as we went on.
I can't really recall any of my burst combo's though. I remember the last time I played in the ranbat I tried to abuse them heavily even though I only hit like 20% of the time so it might actually be a good thing that I didn't remember them.
Sometimes I panic and just mash FA to get a lucky counter hit which didn't work out that well most of the time. You were baiting and punishing those like a champ though.
There were a few matches where you just got me into the corner at the start and KO'd me in under 20 seconds.
If you can get that sequence down I think your win rate will go up by a lot.
Really? Figured CS would be dead with Extend out for so long.
I'm really just waiting for BBCP. I want to go into the game fresh again so I'm refraining from playing CS or buying Extend.
cj_iwakura
Member
Well, I meant Extend. I was having fun until the Ragnas/Trinitys arrived.
I think the problem is I get so freaked out by Labrys' FA I respect it more than any other attack in the game(maybe Slab's FA moreso). If you noticed those times I KO'D you really quick was when I just went in a didn't give a shit. When you started FA'ing though, I started to play defensive, which you should never do with lab.
I remembered your FA to super shenanigans the last time we fought so I made sure to not fall into that same trap
.does BBCP have a release date for consoles yet?
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