-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Persona 4 Arena Ultimax |OT| It's SHO time!
- Thread starter FluxWaveZ
- Start date
Ragingnight
Member
who you play? maybe we can play a few games.
I play Naoto at the moment. Found myself hanging way too back and trying to zone so tried to switch to Yukiko tonight. That... did not go well against this Adachi I played.
Ragingnight
Member
wanna play. I play yukiko
Sure, I'll play for a bit. My PSN is MechaX0.
Ragingnight
Member
rrdragon88 send invite
lose a lot of matches
Lostconfused
Member
Who cares about ratings, just play the game.
I just recognized your name and think I played you today orz
Ragingnight
Member
so junpei with bases level does like 3k aoa alone? like not even a combo followup but just aoa with the max 16 hits?
fought a junpei and man. That slide active frames... I jumped over it and landed on him and still got hit. His super hits like a truck and fucking killed me even with awakening. I was learning the matchup and even was working on a P until... AoA combo into baseball super.
I have no idea when his block string ends and whats punishable. Apparently the punt is? or not? not even sure what the fuck he is doing. Also do you block the slide high then low ? or just straight up low? I also have to remember that fire wall does jack shit because he can do that baseball super on reaction. seems like a 5-5 fight in some cases but man does he hit hard.
fought a junpei and man. That slide active frames... I jumped over it and landed on him and still got hit. His super hits like a truck and fucking killed me even with awakening. I was learning the matchup and even was working on a P until... AoA combo into baseball super.
I have no idea when his block string ends and whats punishable. Apparently the punt is? or not? not even sure what the fuck he is doing. Also do you block the slide high then low ? or just straight up low? I also have to remember that fire wall does jack shit because he can do that baseball super on reaction. seems like a 5-5 fight in some cases but man does he hit hard.
Xenoflare
Member
If you played a scrubby Naoto, yeah, that was probably me.
Also, did you have any quick tips for general play, Raging? Your cross-ups pretty much bodied me for a good duration of that set.
Ragingnight
Member
you mash 5A a lot and rely on that one move wayyyyy to much. Also you should have stopped AoA-ing once you realized that I blocked every single one (I think I did).
I mean, I made mistakes and got hit by that move (the lunge that goes high into shots) a few times but against others, its not going to work that much outside a few times. You need to take advantage of ex roll into shots as well for clutch mixup to take rounds if needed when there are scrambles once in awhile.
You need to just relax and block sometimes. Against a character like mine, you don't need to worry about mixups if you can reliably block the AoA since yukiko has no high (short hop into jump 5A doesn't even combo).
Take advantage of Naoto awakening. I believe with meter you can use it as a reversal and OMC to make it safe as well. Also yukiko can dp through it anyways and get free health.
even though naoto dp sucks, you have to use it once in awhile to atleast make me respect it. If you never use an option, then that just makes it easier on the opponent, espeically if you're playing a long set.
I understand why you didn't use the traps in the neutral game against me (yukiko) but you can still do some shenanigans with traps setups that I have seen some japanese player used.
O yeah, EX roll as well. It was good in vanilla, not sure about now.
You're spacing seems a bit off. You could of hit me I believe with 5C. Use it just as a check if you don't know any combos. There were times where you just let me run a train of block strings on you and setup frame traps when you could of just stopped it from happening with proper spacing.
Also take advantage of mute/silence. When yukiko's silenced, she can't dp, can't use any moves, and is restricted to A and B, none that are terribly scary.
O and don't auto combo into whiff supers lol. There was like 3-4 times I just duck underneath and punished when you landed. And especially don't whiff supers when I'm that close to you.
edit
Things you did well. You checked my forward airdashes with that j.5b(?), and got me a few times with that lunged gun move.
O and that IK I tried avoiding by dping. I fucked up. naoto IK should never work on yukiko since she can avoid it completely.
It's a high then a low.
Ragingnight
Member
o, so basically chie's axe kick thing.
Also yeah, shadow naoto is dumb. Matter of fact, all shadows are dumb
It sucks that you (or rather I) can't say they're strong and OP, because most of them are pretty much inferior to the regular versions. I crack under pressure and am pretty free to them
My bad. I use Narukami on weaker players since I ranomdly picked him up like a week ago.
Lostconfused
Member
Anyone on the east coast want to play?
Lostconfused
Member
Can you not block during jump start up?
Edit: Guess not.
Edit: Guess not.
First few frames of jump startup(character specific?) and then the first five airborne frames you cannot block.
Ragingnight
Member
shadow characters just feel like a dumb design. Hey, you let me get 100sp and I got a hit? better burst! O I got a hit? you're dead. Better hope I didn't win the first round because you won't have burst for the 2nd round!
I mean they aren't op, but from a deisgn and balance perspective, they are incredibly dumb.
I mean they aren't op, but from a deisgn and balance perspective, they are incredibly dumb.
Thanks for the advice Raging.
I stuck to auto combo or very super simple combos because I found myself getting a lot more frantic and nervous mid-match. But I'll work on what you said in the future.
Edit: Man, Akihiko is actually kinda fun when trying out his Challenges and what-not.
I stuck to auto combo or very super simple combos because I found myself getting a lot more frantic and nervous mid-match. But I'll work on what you said in the future.
Edit: Man, Akihiko is actually kinda fun when trying out his Challenges and what-not.
I don't see how, unless you want to ignore all of the negatives Shadows have.
Unless I misinterpreted the info, the first 8 frames of a jump you can't block. Though for projectiles you can block starting at the 4th frame.
http://www.lord-knight.com/p4u2-fundamental-system-knowledge/
I believe he's talking about chicken block frames, and how no character can block during the first 5 frames of a jump.
Ragingnight
Member
I'm not ignoring the negatives that the shadows have. Its like saying, lets make evil version of SF4 characters where they have infinite max ultra w/ slightly reduced damage at the cost of having only 2meters max.
No, you can't just tack on both extremes on to a character and say its fair and balanced. Its completely dumb. The shadow fury shit isn't cool, its just looped supers most of the time. It goes from "hey im losing this whole entire match, and if I get one hit in after making them burst, I win". They might be fair in terms of meta, but that doesn't make it not dumb. Viper, Seth, El Fuerte etc etc isn't op, but their design is dumb.
Shit is stupid. I don't see how you can not see looping supers over and over once they get a hit in is not dumb.
I didn't mean to say 'throw'. Literally just woke up and didn't proofread.
Wait, but I still fail to see the problem if they're not OP (which they aren't). They're extremely volatile and "dumb", I guess, but they do balance out because of things like 20% damage reduction, no Burst, worse auto-combos... To achieve the damage that their normal counterparts can get with minimal resources, they basically need to activate Shadow Frenzy. If they were as effective and as simple as looping supers as you say, everyone would be playing them. Yet, they're barely played.
For the SF4 analogy, you'd also need to think of something that they'd lack defensively, like removing Focus Attacks.
Ragingnight
Member
Okay, remove focus and have infinite meter. Yeah they are gimped because they can't FADC and their neutral game is worse but it just makes really fucking volatile.
I never said they were op or broken. I don't see what is the point of discussing that. El Fuerte isn't op but he is mad stupid from a design perspective. Same with Viper.
Their whole design was to make the game more volatile. It forces the non-shadow characters to burst anytime the shadow characters have 100sp and land a clean attack. Then if they get hit again, its looped supers over and over. Its not creative. Its completely lazy and poor design.
edit
you keep talking from a balance perspective. I'm talking about the design of the shadow characters. I did mention "balance and design", and I meant it in a way that "how are you going to make these characters all balanced from just tacking on a system wide change to a game that was never intended to have this system."
2nd edit
I never said they were super effective or simple. I don't where you got that from, so please refrain from just making stuff up.
I guess I can kind of see your point, but what would you have done to improve a Shadow's design when they were said to be made to be more aggressive oriented than their normal counterparts?
I'm talking about the balance aspect because, until now, I never really though an FG character could be considered poorly designed unless they were either extremely weak or extremely strong (I thought your comments about just looped supers or only one hit ending the match made it sound simple/super effective). I think there are certain Shadows who benefit from the aspects they gain more than others, and that's really what I would point to being poorly designed: each Shadow character should benefit from the change equally, even if it means giving each one special properties.
Ragingnight
Member
For me, volatility in a competitive fighter is bad. When you can straight up be losing and then come back off a single hit (or 2 pending if they bursted). That is dumb, no matter how many cons that mode has.
Shadow designs are dumb because it was a tack on system. The game wasn't designed with this system in mind and they applied it to everybody in an update. Its a system that promotes volatility. It doesn't matter if the characters are worse or better. That to me is irrelevant.
Its like giving deejay the sudden ability to go into "angry mode" and then he loses access to meter but all his normals do 250% more damage. Yeah, deejay still sucks with that system change, but it increases volatility and is also just straight up lazy.
I think the game would be better overall without shadows. From both a casual and a competitive perspective. I don't think anybody feels like they got outplayed when a shadow character wins. Because of the volatility, it feels "random" or that the player won via "luck".
I think Shadows are poorly designed in that the change is universal, and not per character. This leaves some Shadows with barely any reward from Shadow Frenzy, poor damage overall, or extremely limited options, especially because of not having new autocombos. On the other hand, some really benefit from it, maybe a little too much. I think they should have designed each Shadow rather than introducing the mechanic fairly lazily. It's a shame that the difference in viablity between them is so big because the animation/voice work and all the other touches they did for them is really neat, and I'd love to have Shadows as an option for every character without them all being a lot worse or better than their normal versions.
HOPEFULLY they will change this if they patch the game. I'd like that more than a patch to just lower the game's damage or anything, honestly.
HOPEFULLY they will change this if they patch the game. I'd like that more than a patch to just lower the game's damage or anything, honestly.
That seems like it'd be more of a sequel thing than a patch for Ultimax, but who knows. There'll probably at least be one more patch when the console characters are introduced to the arcade version, like BBCP's 1.10.
It does, but idk. Whether they get new moves/autocombos or not, they could always change properties for Shadows or something? I dunno. Some of them weren't designed for Shadow combos at all, like Yukari, so I have no idea what they could do.
And for a sequel I could definitely see a 2.0 happening like BBCS/CP, but idk about a new game like Ultimax.
So does anybody know exactly how the colored square system works? I've heard you need 10 more wins than losses against people of either the same square color or the one above you to move up. I'm guessing you can rank down from only players of the same square color or below you?
Lostconfused
Member
I just lost to a white square, 0 PSR, no rating, doesn't have more than a 2 hit combo Adachi.
What am I even doing?
What am I even doing?
Xenoflare
Member
I was pretty surprised, because by the time she charged to 8 cards Liz is still at 4 or 5
I thought the more cards you have the longer you recharge?
Someone in ArcSys needs to get Megidolaon'ed
Ragingnight
Member
probably losing to gimmicks and scramble situations
Lostconfused
I can make you pick a fight
With someone twice your size
(Today, 11:46 PM)
Reminder that sign-ups presumably end tomorrow.
Lostconfused
Member
Oh right, this will be an excellent way of proving that I am the worst player on GAF.
Technically true, but almost 48 hours left to sign up.